Is Harvey using Bait and switch pricing?

[Rich Konopka]

I have been looking at the Harvey Bandsaws for a few months. I’ve finally decided to buy either the Harvey top of the line Alpha Hw615 which weighs 400lb or the Laguna 18bx. When I compared the price of the Harvey sticks a $500 shipping and $35 tax fee on EVERY harvey machine sold. I checked the shipping cost for my 900lb Hammer A3-41 and it was $400 from Austria. I checked Grizzly, Saw stop, Laguna and they were all substantially lower shipping.

Me thinks they are lowball pricing and adding on inflated shipping to boost profit margins.


PS- i just calculated out shipping cost for the same saw to Canada at $350 CAD which is $264 USD at current exchange rates.

[lou Brava]

Not a fan of Harvey & there shipping so I went Grizzly. Besides the paint the saw is exactly the same using same parts made in same factory.

[Rich Konopka]

Not a fan of Harvey & there shipping so I went Grizzly. Besides the paint the saw is exactly the same using same parts made in same factory.

What Grizzly model are you referring to?

[John Kananis]

If you call them, they'll give you a better price over the phone.


I have been looking at the Harvey Bandsaws for a few months. I’ve finally decided to buy either the Harvey top of the line Alpha Hw615 which weighs 400lb or the Laguna 18bx. When I compared the price of the Harvey sticks a $500 shipping and $35 tax fee on EVERY harvey machine sold. I checked the shipping cost for my 900lb Hammer A3-41 and it was $400 from Austria. I checked Grizzly, Saw stop, Laguna and they were all substantially lower shipping.

Me thinks they are lowball pricing and adding on inflated shipping to boost profit margins.


PS- i just calculated out shipping cost for the same saw to Canada at $350 CAD which is $264 USD at current exchange rates.

[Bill Dufour]

Where does Harvey ship from? Same to Canada or different.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Where does Harvey ship from?

California, I think...but I could be wrong about that. LTL freight costs remain high, unfortunately, too, and with Yellow out of the market, it's unlikely to abate anytime soon.

That said, I agree with the comment to call Harvey directly on the "old fashioned phone". (even though it's likely a wireless device :) ) They tend to offer better pricing than trying to time a constantly moving sale price. I saved a few additional dollars on my G700 that way. Freight was above $300 for that at the time but the delivery was excellent with the pallet wheeled from the street up to the temporary gara-shop. My driver was also a budding woodworker, so there was good conversation, too.

[Bill Dufour]

Harvey has a warehouse in Montclair, California and one in Vancover BC. So shipping to western Canada should be cheaper then shipping clear across the USA.
I know nothing about either countries custom duties or taxes from China or anywhere else.
I do know that Canada Post cost a lot more then USA mail. No idea if shipping cost ratio is similar.
BillD

[Edward Weber]

The "having to call" and "timing a sale price" just puts a bad taste in my mouth.
This isn't a flea market, set a price and stick to it. I don't know if it's bait & switch or some other type of gamesmanship but, it's not for me.

[John Kananis]

Folks don't notice but Amazon does this sort of thing all the time. Especially with certain items. Do this, look up an expensive set of headphones 300+ and watch it over a period of a week or two. You'll be impressed how much it moves.


The "having to call" and "timing a sale price" just puts a bad taste in my mouth.
This isn't a flea market, set a price and stick to it. I don't know if it's bait & switch or some other type of gamesmanship but, it's not for me.

[Bill Dufour]

Not bait and switch. Bait and switch is a low advertised price and you go in or call and that one is sold but we have similar at higher prices. That is why car ads are required to show vin numbers at that price. The dealer has to show paperwork showing that vin was sold at that price before you asked. If the DMV paperwork is forged they will have to explain to the dmv why they should keep their license to sell cars.
For things like machine tools they can say limited to stock on hand or limited amounts.
Bill D

[Richard Coers]

If you already have that kind of attitude about Harvey, you better go with Laguna.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Harvey pricing model also drove me nuts, so I emailed them and got a better price than advertised on their site. Since I was just home from a stay in hospital for Pneumonia, I had them deliver it, even though I'm only 15KM away.
Great saw, by the way.
As far as freight costs, I'm not sure when you last looked at shipping costs, but, oh, baby, everything's going up.

[Rich Konopka]

As far as freight costs, I'm not sure when you last looked at shipping costs, but, oh, baby, everything's going up.

Did you read my original post and comprehend what I stated? I thought I was going bonkers when I looked at their shipping costs. But then I delved into other vendors and manufacturers.

Their padding their margins by a inflating shipping costs while appearing to be competitive with pricing.

[Jim Becker]

Rich, when you're comparing shipping costs, be sure that it's apples to apples. Some sellers provide the base shipping cost, but when you add in things like lift-gate service (kinda required for most of us) things change, sometimes more dramatically than we prefer. I'm not suggesting you are wrong...'just suggesting to be sure the comparison with others is valid.

FIY, the shipping for my slider last fall was $1200 and that was with terminal pickup on my own trailer.

[Edwin Santos]

I have been looking at the Harvey Bandsaws for a few months. I’ve finally decided to buy either the Harvey top of the line Alpha Hw615 which weighs 400lb or the Laguna 18bx. When I compared the price of the Harvey sticks a $500 shipping and $35 tax fee on EVERY harvey machine sold. I checked the shipping cost for my 900lb Hammer A3-41 and it was $400 from Austria. I checked Grizzly, Saw stop, Laguna and they were all substantially lower shipping.

Me thinks they are lowball pricing and adding on inflated shipping to boost profit margins.


PS- i just calculated out shipping cost for the same saw to Canada at $350 CAD which is $264 USD at current exchange rates.

How recently was your Hammer A3-41 purchase?

[John Kananis]

Interesting snippet. If you can buy a machine through woodcraft, they charge the same flat shipping fee as the manufacturer but include lift gate service in the shipping price. And the drivers have always been more than happy to roll my equipment into the shop with their pallet jack (I do tip). You're not saving a ton or anything but it's something. My experience anyway.

Edit: sorry for taking off topic

[Ron Selzer]

In 2015 when I bought my SawStop ICS from Woodcraft I paid full freight and had to pick it up at the store. i believe it was $500 may have been $400, no less.

[John Kananis]

Should have mentioned, purchase from the website. The stores are individually owned so their expenses are higher.


In 2015 when I bought my SawStop ICS from Woodcraft I paid full freight and had to pick it up at the store. i believe it was $500 may have been $400, no less.

[Rich Konopka]

Rich, when you're comparing shipping costs, be sure that it's apples to apples. Some sellers provide the base shipping cost, but when you add in things like lift-gate service (kinda required for most of us) things change, sometimes more dramatically than we prefer. I'm not suggesting you are wrong...'just suggesting to be sure the comparison with others is valid.

FIY, the shipping for my slider last fall was $1200 and that was with terminal pickup on my own trailer.

Youchhh and they usually tax shipping

[Rich Konopka]

How recently was your Hammer A3-41 purchase?

January 2023

[Warren Lake]

originally did five at once. Three dealers at the time same machines asked them all this is what I want what is your story. One dealer was cheaper enough that it paid for one machine. They delivered for free from two hours away. I didnt know the full history of the owner but over the years learned more and he knew tons. Woodworking but also hired by large factories to do mods to make things work better. They still delivered for free many years later when the mortise machine came from them. truck going out on a route they just ad you in. Different time.

[Edward Weber]

I don't really want to get too deep in the weeds with this but TOTAL cost is what matters. What does it cost to get X machine into my shop.
I recently bought a used machine for less than $100. I had to make a 40 mile round trip and tip the forklift operator for helping me load it onto my trailer. The total price is now over $100.
Now I can tell myself I only paid X for the machine but I'd only be fooling myself.
It doesn't matter how you slice it up between machine cost and shipping, it's all part of the overall cost.

Remember. call now it's only $19.99, plus shipping & handling.

[Richard Coers]

I was recently surprised to get free shipping from Axminster in England to the US. Plus the tools were on sale.

[Melvin Feng]

If you are looking to save costs on shipping, what I did when I bought my 18 BX many years ago, was order it through my local woodcraft so that it would be delivered to the store for free. Then I picked it up in my truck, and they loaded it in the bed for free. I had a friend come over to help me unload it.

If you don't have a truck, you could rent one for significantly less than that shipping cost, you would just need to make sure you can get the bandsaw into your shop without incident.

I will add that the Laguna 18BX has been a great bandsaw for me. I use a 1.25" resaw king for resawing and straight cuts (I've resawn the full 16" multiple times now), and Lenox bimetal Dimaster 2 blades for all my smaller blades 1/4"-1/2". I am a fan of the ceramic guides, but I know of many who really dislike them. The harvey does have some different interesting features though, I can see why you are deciding between the two!

[Rich Konopka]

If you are looking to save costs on shipping, what I did when I bought my 18 BX many years ago, was order it through my local woodcraft so that it would be delivered to the store for free. Then I picked it up in my truck, and they loaded it in the bed for free. I had a friend come over to help me unload it.

If you don't have a truck, you could rent one for significantly less than that shipping cost, you would just need to make sure you can get the bandsaw into your shop without incident.

I will add that the Laguna 18BX has been a great bandsaw for me. I use a 1.25" resaw king for resawing and straight cuts (I've resawn the full 16" multiple times now), and Lenox bimetal Dimaster 2 blades for all my smaller blades 1/4"-1/2". I am a fan of the ceramic guides, but I know of many who really dislike them. The harvey does have some different interesting features though, I can see why you are deciding between the two!

Mel, thanks for confirming the 18bx and Woodcraft. That is exactly what I did. I went down to my local Woodcraft and they said it would take a couple of weeks to be shipped to them. I just need to pull the trigger and order it.

While the Harvey appears to be a nice machine the BX was a better choice for the price and has a longer and stronger reputation.

[Michael Burnside]

Mel, thanks for confirming the 18bx and Woodcraft. That is exactly what I did. I went down to my local Woodcraft and they said it would take a couple of weeks to be shipped to them. I just need to pull the trigger and order it.

While the Harvey appears to be a nice machine the BX was a better choice for the price and has a longer and stronger reputation.

Rich, I did exactly what you’re thinking. The Laguna saw is a beast, you’ll enjoy using it.

[James Jayko]

The "having to call" and "timing a sale price" just puts a bad taste in my mouth.
This isn't a flea market, set a price and stick to it. I don't know if it's bait & switch or some other type of gamesmanship but, it's not for me.

Harvey probably does 5% of the business that Sawstop does, and even less compared to Grizzly...this will impact the price they (Harvey) pay for shipping. And...everyone has to make their margin somewhere. When everyone is comparing one brand to another on price alone, don't be surprised that the sales price != total cost to get.

You can always just go to your Woodcraft / Rockler, pay full retail and taxes etc, rent a truck, and drive it home?

[Doug Garson]

Remember. call now it's only $19.99, plus shipping & handling.


Plus call in the next two hours and get a second one for just shipping and handling! :cool:

[Edward Weber]

Harvey probably does 5% of the business that Sawstop does, and even less compared to Grizzly...this will impact the price they (Harvey) pay for shipping. And...everyone has to make their margin somewhere. When everyone is comparing one brand to another on price alone, don't be surprised that the sales price != total cost to get.

You can always just go to your Woodcraft / Rockler, pay full retail and taxes etc, rent a truck, and drive it home?

Charging a lower price to be competitive in order to draw people toward your product, only to make up the difference in elevated shipping costs, is the definition of bait and switch.
Bait with a low price, then make up the extra cost in the shipping.

If your tool is higher quality, then charge more but leave the shipping cost alone. It's not there to kelp you meet your margins.
JMHO

[Michael Burnside]

Charging a lower price to be competitive in order to draw people toward your product, only to make up the difference in elevated shipping costs, is the definition of bait and switch.
Bait with a low price, then make up the extra cost in the shipping.

If your tool is higher quality, then charge more but leave the shipping cost alone. It's not there to kelp you meet your margins.
JMHO

Respectfully it's not bait and switch. The product is not being switched to an inferior version. I think it's pretty common for manufacturers to not include shipping+tax as that can vary greatly where you live. If you're close to a distribution hub, maybe shipping is less. If shipping includes drop-gate service, maybe it's more. Likewise where you live will determine how much you pay in tax.

Honestly I just don't see Harvey being all that different to other quality brands. Maybe their prices are a bit better and their shipping a bit more. I don't know why that is, but overall, shipping notwithstanding, the out-the-door-and-into-your-shop seems within reason most of the time. Where it can be win-win is if you do like Rich and order to a brick-and-mortar store that does enough volume that shipping to the store is free to customers. That's how I've bought a few big tools in the shop.

[Melvin Feng]

Mel, thanks for confirming the 18bx and Woodcraft. That is exactly what I did. I went down to my local Woodcraft and they said it would take a couple of weeks to be shipped to them. I just need to pull the trigger and order it.

While the Harvey appears to be a nice machine the BX was a better choice for the price and has a longer and stronger reputation.

Good luck! While I've had other issues with Laguna's customer service, the 18BX has been a great machine for me, and I hope it continues to work as I expect!

[George Yetka]

Ask if there is a discount to commercial address. I do this for everything I dont pick up. You may find its half the price. I ship everything to my office which has a forklift. Im in a good position that I have a rack truck with a lift gate that I can take home and back right up to my garage.

[James Jayko]

Did you read my original post and comprehend what I stated? I thought I was going bonkers when I looked at their shipping costs. But then I delved into other vendors and manufacturers.

Their padding their margins by a inflating shipping costs while appearing to be competitive with pricing.

Their != They're

[Steve Demuth]

I think their pricing is pretty transparent - you look up the tool, scroll down to the bottom of the page, and there it is, tool price, and shipping. Doesn't seem to be anything underhanded about it.

My own experience with Harvey has been that they're very accomodating on shipping, when asked.

[Frederick Skelly]

Charging a lower price to be competitive in order to draw people toward your product, only to make up the difference in elevated shipping costs, is the definition of bait and switch.
Bait with a low price, then make up the extra cost in the shipping.

If your tool is higher quality, then charge more but leave the shipping cost alone. It's not there to kelp you meet your margins.
JMHO

Please know that I’m not trying to be a wise guy when I say this.
Many other businesses use similar approaches. It’s not necessarily bait and switch. The one that immediately comes to mind is restaurants - yesterday I paid $3.50 for a coke at dinner in a not-fancy restaurant. They kept the entree price competitive and made it up on the drink, etc. And we’ve all experienced the car dealer game of lowering the price of the new car, then lowering your trade-in value (so they can make up the discount when they resell your old car).

I don’t like any of it but it’s common practice. I agree with you that it’s the TOTAL price that matters.

Fred

[Rich Konopka]

I think their pricing is pretty transparent - you look up the tool, scroll down to the bottom of the page, and there it is, tool price, and shipping. Doesn't seem to be anything underhanded about it.

My own experience with Harvey has been that they're very accomodating on shipping, when asked.

Please elaborate

[Steve Demuth]

I ordered their T40 lathe and optional leg set, with some accessories, all at significant discount. The web quote had the items with separate flap-rate shipping for each of the truck freight items. I called them and pointed out they could, and should, ship them all on a single pallet, and price, and the did that, at the rate originally quoted for just the lathe. Knocked $200 freight off the quote, in other words.

[Rich Konopka]

I finally pulled the trigger and purchased the Laguna 18BX !! With the 10% off and a great local Woodcraft. It came down to the plethora of 18BX users and videos. It seems that the bulk majority of Harvey BANDSAW owners are influencers. I received free shipping from Woodcraft compared to Harveys exorbitant shipping charges.

[Patrick McCarthy]

"It seems that the bulk majority of [the] owners are influencers."

This is what i fine most annoying. I prefer the old model of a salesman making an obvious sales pitch, so you can factor in a grain of salt as you listen. With the influencers, it is more like a phony "friend" blowing smoke up you-know-where. Only a few start with a full disclosure of "I received this for free and here are my thoughts . . .", which i naively think should be mandatory . . . . but i also think everyone should be honest.

Patrick, apparently a budding curmudgeon

[Michael Burnside]

It's a great saw, you'll like it.

As far as influencers, I guess I'd retort by saying how else should these manufacturers advertise? I barely watch TV at all and most of my watching is YouTube. Now, I'm no marketing genius, but it would seem that a good way to find people like me is through influencers. If one of these influencers is a shill, then they'll quickly find me blocking their channel. Easy enough.


I prefer the old model of a salesman making an obvious sales pitch, so you can factor in a grain of salt as you listen. With the influencers, it is more like a phony "friend" blowing smoke up you-know-where.

Boy I'll take an influencer any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a salesman. An influencer getting a free tool is a far cry from a person getting paid exclusively to sell you something. I don't see how that's less biased.

[Edward Weber]

If you buy something based on an "influencer" on YT, then by definition, you're easily influenced.
Most of these types of folks on YT are not skilled enough in sales or in knowledge of their free tools to be able to sway my decision on anything. Most of the time they're trying to sell a solution to a problem that does not exist.
There should be full disclosure if they were gifted tools IMO. Some tell you, some don't or just bury the link under the video as "sponsored by". Not everyone knows what that means or to what level.

[Michael Harris Ohio]

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I just wanted to add that I purchased two machines from Harvey in late 2020, a G-700 and an HW615. Both machines were shipped from California for $249 each. Obviously, a lot has change with the price of "everything" in the past three years, so I am not surprised with the shipping cost increase, however, $500 does seem high. I can say that Harvey packaging, shipping, and equipment quality is top notch. I cannot speak to Grizzly products, but I would highly recommend Harvey.

[Rich Konopka]

Other key factors in my choice of the Laguna BX18 were the ceramic guides, table size is larger, and resaw capacity is 16”.

[Patty Hann]

Ask if there is a discount to commercial address. I do this for everything I dont pick up. You may find its half the price. I ship everything to my office which has a forklift. Im in a good position that I have a rack truck with a lift gate that I can take home and back right up to my garage.

Would a "Business" being run from a house (using the residential address) still be considered a "Commercial Address"?
I occasionally use the name of my business and inadvertently found there are perks for using it... The local Grainger people told me about the perks, (at least with their company).

[Alan Lightstone]

Would a "Business" being run from a house (using the residential address) still be considered a "Commercial Address"?
I occasionally use the name of my business and inadvertently found there are perks for using it... The local Grainger people told me about the perks, (at least with their company).
What are the perks, at least with Grainger? Do tell...

[Jim Becker]

Would a "Business" being run from a house (using the residential address) still be considered a "Commercial Address"?
I occasionally use the name of my business and inadvertently found there are perks for using it... The local Grainger people told me about the perks, (at least with their company).
No, it generally would not since it's likely zoned residential by the local jurisdiction. You may have permissible use for a home-based business (generally with certain restrictions in a residential zone), but it's not Commercial based on the "where". (I'm a member of a local jurisdiction Planning Commission and this stuff comes up from time to time)

[Patty Hann]

No, it generally would not since it's likely zoned residential by the local jurisdiction. You may have permissible use for a home-based business (generally with certain restrictions in a residential zone), but it's not Commercial based on the "where". (I'm a member of a local jurisdiction Planning Commission and this stuff comes up from time to time)
Thank You... I didn't think I could, but I wanted to make certain.

[Jim Becker]

I think there is a general assumption that in a real commercial area, there would be provisions for large trucks, things like loading docks and/or forklifts, etc., which are unlikely in a residential area. Hence, the potential discounts for delivery services. One way I've handled this is to pick up large machinery at the truck terminal which eliminates the last mile delivery costs from the carrier. At our old property, I could get sheet goods delivery practically to the shop door; here at the new place, I'll have to have them deliver to my utility trailer and put that to the shop with the Big Orange Power Tool since there's no "driveway" to the shop doors.

Now with Harvey, the delivery of the G700 was handled really well...lift gate and the LTL delivery driver wheeled it right up the garage where my temporary shop was at the time. He was actually a woodworker, so we chatted for a bit.

[Ray Selinger]

It certainly pays to check shipping costs. I think some sellers make their money on what they charge for shipping. Although shipping has gone up, what was once $15 is now $25 .