Fluorescent 4' T8 direct wired tubes.

[Lee Schierer]

The past few times, I've gone into my workshop, some of the fluorescent lights have been slow to come on or don't light at all. Has anyone replaced their fluorescent tubes with direct wired led tubes? If so, what brand and where did you get them? I don't want tubes powered through the ballast. What color temperature and lumen output works best for a wood shop to see true colors?

[Jim Becker]

There are a number of existing threads on that, including one that was relatively recently, Lee. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?304373-LED-Bulbs-in-a-standard-fixture

I personally got rid of the old fixtures and replaced with LED fixtures at the old shop as it was easier and pretty cost effective. In the new shop, I'm using 8' LED strip lights...did my entire 24x36x10 shop for about $280 with the Barrina fixtures from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RKZFD5Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1). (same ones that Matt Cremona uses) Even at 10' up in the air, they do a great job lighting my shop shaddow free.

As to color temp and brightness. I prefer 5000K at this point, but 4100 is also acceptable to my eyes. I like bright...like "surface of the sun" bright so the more lumen output, the better.

[Tom M King]

I've done it both ways. Go with the Barrina.

[George Yetka]

I ran 4 cases of these in our ware house. Direct wire. We are very happy. It was either this or change about 12 ballasts

[Aaron Inami]

The color temperature is somewhat of a personal preference. The 5000K point is more like an office lighting. I prefer 4000K because it's just slightly warmer and still gives good results on wood color. The 5000K point is okay, but just a little more "sterile". Not as "welcoming".

[Ron Selzer]

Personally, I have removed all fluorescent fixtures from my shop and replaced them with (6 Pack) Barrina LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture, 4FT, 2200lm, 6500K (Super Bright White), 20W, Utility LED Shop Light, Ceiling and Under Cabinet Light, Corded Electric with ON/OFF Switch, ETL Listed - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HBT3BVM?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1), much happier with lots more light for less money. Have another box of them to install when I get the chance.
I would remove existing light fixtures unless built in with drywall around them. In which case i would install the barrina's inside the existing fixture.

[Bill Dufour]

see if your electric supplier has any deals on led lights.
Bill D

[Brice Rogers]

I replaced most our fluorescents in our house and in my workshop with direct wire (no ballast) LED lights. 4000K.

I didn't like the drop in types that left the ballast in place because the ballast uses energy.

Of the roughly 15 or so LED lights, I have had three that have failed. Seems like a higher than expected failure rate. Just saying...

[Tom M King]

I also have not had the best luck with the T8 replacement tubes having great longevity. We have built in troffers in the ceiling of the dog room. I forget how many years ago I changed to LED tubes that needed ballasts, and then when half of those failed, changed to the tubes that don't need ballasts. Already some of them have stopped working.

I've wondered if they suffer from being closed up in the fixtures from heat.

In the mechanic shop, I put up a set of the Barrina's to try them out. The first layout proved to be too bright. This building has a very strange roof framing. You can see them in the picture with the ladders. Long story shortened, I'm going to move them up higher in a straight line.

I had some ladders in there working on the lights, and to get one out of the way I stuck it in an opening I made in the built in shelving for the sharpening sink. That gave me the idea to store the ladders in there which has already proved a great improvement on step ladder use.

Anyway, back to the lighting topic, I'm thinking about mounting some of the Barrina's in the dogroom on the surface of the troffers by fastening the clips to the frame around the transparent covers. I think one Barrina tube will be enough light to take the place of one four tube troffer. They will be much easier to replace mounted like that too.

Not only are the Barrina's very bright, steady light, but they're cheap and easy to replace or move around.

I had that set of lights for the shop for over a year, and don't remember if I ordered the clips separately or not, but be sure you get them.

[George Yetka]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JG6X1H2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sorry forgot the link

[Tom M King]

To make the Barrina's easy to change individually when they're in a straight line, I'm going to put these short connector wires between them. They slide easily in the clips when just one is held by a couple of the clamps, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to change one if they use the end to end direct connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/Connector-Cable-inches-Extension-Integrated/dp/B089F3CZLJ/ref=sr_1_36?crid=3KANLBGGQMLW5&keywords=barrina+connectors&qid=1693571915&sprefix=barrina+connectos%2Caps%2C125&sr=8-36

[Jim Becker]

Tom, I'm glad you mentioned those connectors. My current install has the end-to-end hard connectors and while they work great, seasonal/temperature expansion/contraction of the building and fixtures occasionally shifts one or two just enough to break contact. Replacing with the short cables will eliminate that issue.

I actually just ordered one more Barrina lamp for the shed as I'm finally going to complete the electric in there that's fed from the shop. I never got around to it. It will be good to have both power and light active in there; easier to see and able to run a battery tender on the ZTR over the winter.

[Curt Harms]

The past few times, I've gone into my workshop, some of the fluorescent lights have been slow to come on or don't light at all. Has anyone replaced their fluorescent tubes with direct wired led tubes? If so, what brand and where did you get them? I don't want tubes powered through the ballast. What color temperature and lumen output works best for a wood shop to see true colors?

I removed the ballasts from 4' "shop lights" and replaced the fluorescents with LED tubes. It was a very simple operation but be aware that there are 2 styles of LED tubes, one where all the power is in one end and one where there is power on both ends. I went with the style that has all the power on one end so the tombstone on the other end is not powered, it simply supports the tube. As to color, Like Jim I prefer 4000K but 5000K works if that's what's available. CRI is another measure and when I was shopping LED tubes with a CRI higher than 80 was not common, they were available but needed to be ordered and were more $. I don't know if that's still the case or not.

Edit: Here's a page that is pretty informative about LED lighting
https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/everything-you-need-to-know-about-led-tube-lights

[Bill Dufour]

Some of those repalcement tubes now come with swivel ends. You can rotate them to angle the light direction. Not just the way the fixture is mounted. So you can attach a fixture to a sloped ceiling and turn the tube so it faces straight down.
Bill D

[Tom M King]

I switched those Barrina's up high this morning. Even 14' high it's plenty of light for me. It's a nice light too. I'm also a fan of 5000k.

One word of caution on the clips. Just like any included Chinese screws, you have to be careful not to strip the soft Phillips head. I was a bit out of position running one in with my left hand, and buggered one up. I'm thinking about going back now and putting some earthquake safety straps in place. They go in and out of those clips pretty easily.

[Bill Dufour]

I forget what it was but the last China made thing I dropped one of the steel? woodscrews. A magnet would not pick it up! That is why it fell of the magnetic screwdriver tip.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

I switched those Barrina's up high this morning. Even 14' high it's plenty of light for me. It's a nice light too. I'm also a fan of 5000k.

One word of caution on the clips. Just like any included Chinese screws, you have to be careful not to strip the soft Phillips head. I was a bit out of position running one in with my left hand, and buggered one up. I'm thinking about going back now and putting some earthquake safety straps in place. They go in and out of those clips pretty easily.

I generally use my own screws for this kind of thing...it saves a lot of headaches for sure, especially when working overhead. Square/Robertson drive screws stay on the driver. Cheap Phillips head often do not.

[Tom M King]

For anyone planning to use these Barrina lights, the screws are some metric equivalent of no. 6 x 3/4 flathead. They worked fine for first install, but when I reused them for moving the lights they suffered.

[Lee Schierer]

I've decided to go with the Barrina 4 foot dual ended ballast bypass LED tubes (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DWE4FWY/?coliid=IWIED4WOS6VEZ&colid=1D4LOQ4GYUNA5&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1). Four of the existing fixtures in my shop will be easy to rewire.

However since all the fixtures weren't purchased at the same time, I have two identical fixtures that have a coil, a capacitor and a resistor on each end instead of a ballast. Here's what the powered end looks like.
507184

This is the opposite end.
507185

There are two gray and white plastic boxes in the middle that I believe are just junction boxes. Since the light still works I'm not going to break one open to bee 100% sure what is inside.
507187
I traced the circuit and here is a schematic of the fixture wiring.
507186
The two unknown boxes are shown in their locations with the question mark next to them.

Since the Barrina tubes have both contacts in the tombstone on one end connected to the line and the ones on the other end are both connected to the neutral, rewiring should be pretty easy by removing the coil, capacitor and resistor.

My question is: Do the Barrina bulbs care which end of the tube is connected to the line or doesn't it matter?

[Jim Becker]

I think most of us used the actual Barrina fixtures rather than the replacement "tubes"...I would hope that the data sheet that comes with them indicates if there is a preferred end to get power. LED is normally polarity sensitive, but more and more devices are getting around that with some little electronic tricks "under the hood".

[Bill Dufour]

Polarity should not matter with AC.
Bill D

[Andrew More]

Another vote for the Barrina fixtures. One note, I believe these are overdriven, which might explain the cost. It also results in a lot of heat. That heat then causes the fixtures to expand and make "ting" sounds as they expand. (Think like rain on a roof) It was also sufficient to disconnect the end to end connectors. I used to come into the shop and every week a different fixture would be out, or flickering. I put a screw at either end of the light to prevent them shifting over time. That was several months ago, and I haven't had an issue since.

[Jim Becker]

Another vote for the Barrina fixtures. One note, I believe these are overdriven, which might explain the cost. It also results in a lot of heat. That heat then causes the fixtures to expand and make "ting" sounds as they expand. (Think like rain on a roof) It was also sufficient to disconnect the end to end connectors. I used to come into the shop and every week a different fixture would be out, or flickering. I put a screw at either end of the light to prevent them shifting over time. That was several months ago, and I haven't had an issue since.
True...they do expand and contract and I had the same issue and the same temporary solution. But I bought a package of those short wire joiners that Tom linked to above and I plan on putting them in the rows of three fixtures instead of the little short joiners to totally eliminate the disconnection that occasionally occurs from expansion/contraction.

[Lee Schierer]

Polarity should not matter with AC.
Bill D

The wiring diagram shows that one end is connected to the line, the other end is connected to the neutral. Since these are light emitting diodes, I thought a diode only conducted on half of the 60 cycle wave. I know that if you have LED lights on a Christmas tree, if you photograph it you will often see only half the lights in the photograph.

[Jim Becker]

Lee, I believe that the drivers on the fixture or tube deal with the AC/DC thing.

[Andrew More]

But I bought a package of those short wire joiners that Tom linked to above and I plan on putting them in the rows of three fixtures instead of the little short joiners to totally eliminate the disconnection that occasionally occurs from expansion/contraction.

That's probably a better solution. IIRC mine came with short wires to do that type of connection, but the direct connect works better for the space I've installed them in.

[Lee Schierer]

I ordered the new tubes yesterday and the are supposed to arrive on Friday (9/8).

Oh, those mysterious gray and white boxes at the mid point in the wiring on the two different fixtures contained a small circuit board. I'm not sure what they did, but they will no longer be needed.

Now if I can just find a place to properly dispose of the old florescent tubes.

[Curt Harms]

Lee, I believe that the drivers on the fixture or tube deal with the AC/DC thing.

I may be off on this but I think all or most consumer LED 'chips' run on 12 volt DC. The drivers Jim reference above convert 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC. The '50,000 hour' life may refer to the expected life span of the LED 'chip'. It may not include the life of the driver so the LED may be fine, the driver may not be.

[Denis Rezendes]

I noticed a few of the Amazon reviews noting bad RF interference with the Barrina lights. Has anyone here had that experience?

[Ron Selzer]

I noticed a few of the Amazon reviews noting bad RF interference with the Barrina lights. Has anyone here had that experience?

Have not noticed any, don't use an AM/FM radio in the shop

[Lee Schierer]

My new tubes arrived this afternoon. I have all but one fixture converted. I plan to rewire that final fixture tomorrow. WOW, what a difference. I am pleased the light levels. I like the instant on as well. I'm sure the old florescent tubes had lost some of their brightness over the years.

I just checked the FM and AM radio bands on my shop radio and the new Barrina Tubes don't make any static that affects the radio.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, amazing what a lot of light contributes to a workshop space!

[Jim Andrew]

I replaced all my bulbs several years ago, found some on ebay that cost half of the ones at Menards. Took out all the ballasts, and the extra wire, mine are hot on one end only, and they are much brighter than the old fluorescent bulbs. Anyone know what you can do to clean up your radio signal?

[Jason Roehl]

I may be off on this but I think all or most consumer LED 'chips' run on 12 volt DC. The drivers Jim reference above convert 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC. The '50,000 hour' life may refer to the expected life span of the LED 'chip'. It may not include the life of the driver so the LED may be fine, the driver may not be.

I challenge anyone to find a bulk/wholesale capacitor that would be used in the manufacture of an LED driver that has a rating of more than about 4-5000 hours.

One little tidbit I noticed was absent from this thread is that “color temperature” does not have anything to do with faithful reproduction of color. That’s in a different spec: CRI, or Color Rendering Index, with 100 being perfect. Many LEDs fall in the 70s or 80s, which isn’t great. 90+ will let you compare colors.

[Lee Schierer]

I challenge anyone to find a bulk/wholesale capacitor that would be used in the manufacture of an LED driver that has a rating of more than about 4-5000 hours.

One little tidbit I noticed was absent from this thread is that “color temperature” does not have anything to do with faithful reproduction of color. That’s in a different spec: CRI, or Color Rendering Index, with 100 being perfect. Many LEDs fall in the 70s or 80s, which isn’t great. 90+ will let you compare colors.

The Barrina tubes I purchased have a CRI of 85. I also checked for radio static and I have much less now than I did with the electronic and conventional ballast fluorescents. The new tubes also eliminated the humming noise.