Well, here we go again

[Alan Lightstone]

Well, it's hurricane season again, and this year its Idalia that's heading in our direction. Expected to be a Cat 3 storm as it passes by us, so major hurricane. Been preparing for a few days. Pretty well second nature after living here for 26 years.

Storm surge is projected to be up to 7 feet, which would be a concern as we're at 7 ft elevation, but we have a few barrier islands and an acre of mangroves between us and the Gulf of Mexico, so hopefully that will provide significant protection. Not thrilled that it's going to be a full moon, with normal 3 foot tides scheduled. Oh well. 7-10 inches of rain predicted for my area.

The power companies have been aggressively replacing power poles this summer, and trimming trees around power lines (which should help), but not burying them underground (way too wishful thinking about that. Way too expensive and they never do it). And, FWIW, they are great in responding en mass after the power outages to restore power. They really do coordinate that with multiple state's crews in impressive fashion. Really glad I built that back up power supply for our medication fridge. Hopefully it won't get tested. Lots of ice packs frozen in the freezer, cars gassed up, and Tesla fully charged.

Gulf of Mexico is crazy warm this year, which will definitely power things. I think we'll just get tropical storm force winds, and hopefully not much more than that. The Big Bend area of the panhandle will get the direct hit if the course stays on the projected track (which it sometimes does, sometimes doesn't). I'm thrilled that Punta Gorda, Ft. Myers area isn't getting a direct hit again. It's still rough down there after last year. Lots of rebuilding still to be done.

Anyone in its path, please take this seriously. We always worry about newbies that move down here from up north and haven't been through a hurricane before (which is plenty of people the past few years), and haven't learned the lessons from them.

[Brian Elfert]

The question of why power lines are not underground comes up here every time there is a major storm that knocks out several hundred thousand customers. Luckily, such a storm has not occurred for several years. The power companies talk about the cost to put utilities underground and the higher ongoing cost to maintain underground lines. Apparently, it costs more to maintain underground lines than overhead I guess due to the cost of digging up or replacing underground lines. My parents had their underground feed go bad at least once. The power company thought an animal chewed on it.

My city has required underground lines since the late 1970s so there are few power poles. The power companies have been putting all new residential services underground for 40 years or so. I demolished a house with overhead service in 2001. The new house the power company ran the feed underground even though it goes overhead at the street.

[Jim Becker]

'Glad you have the foresight to prepare...I think it's incredible that there are still folks who delay until it's nearly impossible to do anything effective enough.

It's also amazed me that so much of Florida remains using overhead power. I've wondered about that for years and wondered if the cost of so many "fixes" may have exceeded the cost to bury it earlier on. Who knows?

Stay safe!

[Brian Elfert]

A friend of mine lives in Fort Myers and he never lost power during the hurricane last year. No damage to the house really either. His house is new enough to have hurricane glass and the other updates for hurricanes. No idea if he has underground or overhead service.

My uncle has a winter house in Fort Myers and it got damaged badly. The house flooded. It has a crawl space and I recall they were talking about maybe having to replace the subfloor along with the drywall up to four feet. Electrical needed replacing. He was lucky to have a relationship with a contractor who started on repairs as soon as insurance approved the claim.

[Alan Lightstone]

A friend of mine lives in Fort Myers and he never lost power during the hurricane last year. No damage to the house really either. His house is new enough to have hurricane glass and the other updates for hurricanes. No idea if he has underground or overhead service.

My uncle has a winter house in Fort Myers and it got damaged badly. The house flooded. It has a crawl space and I recall they were talking about maybe having to replace the subfloor along with the drywall up to four feet. Electrical needed replacing. He was lucky to have a relationship with a contractor who started on repairs as soon as insurance approved the claim.
My daughter went to college at FGCU, so in Ft Myers. Many of her local hangouts at the beach were destroyed. Broke her heart seeing the pictures. And Punta Gorda got a direct hit AGAIN (Charlie too). The college, well built, seemed to do just fine. But it also was a few miles inland. Location matters so much.

[Greg Parrish]

We are on up the coast in the big bend area. Have been watching it closely as well. Our neighborhood has all utilities underground which helps. As long as the power plant doesn't go off line, we are usually okay but you can't say the same for other parts of town that have above ground lines and lots of tree canopy.

[Alan Lightstone]

We are on up the coast in the big bend area. Have been watching it closely as well. Our neighborhood has all utilities underground which helps. As long as the power plant doesn't go off line, we are usually okay but you can't say the same for other parts of town that have above ground lines and lots of tree canopy.
Unfortunately, really headed your way. Stay safe. Nice that you have underground power lines.

[Greg Parrish]

Unfortunately, really headed your way. Stay safe. Nice that you have underground power lines.

The last track, Advisory 8, had it going more south east I think. We are in Tally and it looked to show the eye somewhere between us. Not good for anyone in Florida though. You stay safe as well!

[Tim Best]

We are in Port St. Joe and while the worst is forecast to the north and east of us, we are watching closely while doing the “normal” prep work (filling sandbags, quadruple checking the generator, double checking that the hurricane shutters are good to go, and that the Kevlar window fabric is laid out and ready to go up.) Hoping for the best…

[Alan Lightstone]

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I've called the Clearwater Chamber of Commerce, and requested that they set up barricades if he comes near here, and shoot him on sight. We'll see if that happens. :D

[Alan Rutherford]

For those in parts of the country where hurricanes are more of an abstract concept, here's what the prognosis for Idalia looks like on the official NOAA National Hurricane Center website (https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/):

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Alan, whose thread this is, lives close to the Southern edge of the purple band and I'm close to the Northern edge. This is a forecast, Reality will likely differ. You can see how a few miles one way or the other makes a lot of difference near the edges, although not so much in the center. This graphic is only concerned with wtnds of 39 mph which is what we used to call a good day for sailing in a former life. The NHC also has a table of the likelihood of higher winds and although the probablility is not 100% for either Alan or me, it's high enough to take very seriously.

The purple band to the right is Franklin, which is another problem, but not for us.

[Alan Lightstone]

The wind here will probably not be the issue. We've seen that multiple times before. The storm surge, however, has me really concerned. Just our luck it's a King tide tomorrow. The definition of that is when the Earth, moon, and sun align to generate the greatest tidal effects of the year. This afternoon's high tide is the highest I have seen on the creek in my back yard (which connects to the Intercoastal waterway, which of course connects to the Gulf of Mexico. The creek has overflowed by about a foot, and we've yet to get any weather from the hurricane. So it has me concerned. They've predicted 7 foot storm surge over high tide in St. Petersburg, which would be a record for that city (the record is from Hurricane Elena in 1985 - 4 feet above high tide).

Now, forgetting me, what's far more concerning is for people living North of me in Pasco, Hernando, Citrus, Levy, Dixie, and Taylor counties. They are predicted far higher storm surge there (10-15 feet), and, of course, far higher winds.

Jim Cantore is camping out at Cedar Key, which frankly is a pretty stupid place to be. An island with no bridges to the mainland. Beautiful, picturesque place, but evacuation would likely be impossible. Plus it looks like the eye won't go over there anymore. But hey, TV. Those reporters love that video of them standing outside getting pounded by the storm. Whatever...

[Greg Parrish]

Given the structures on Cedar Key, if Jim stays there he probably won't be there after the storm and surge pass. I heard he was potentially moving before the storm got there. Don't see how anyone could ride it out on Cedar Key or the areas right around there.


The wind here will probably not be the issue. We've seen that multiple times before. The storm surge, however, has me really concerned. Just our luck it's a King tide tomorrow. The definition of that is when the Earth, moon, and sun align to generate the greatest tidal effects of the year. This afternoon's high tide is the highest I have seen on the creek in my back yard (which connects to the Intercoastal waterway, which of course connects to the Gulf of Mexico. The creek has overflowed by about a foot, and we've yet to get any weather from the hurricane. So it has me concerned. They've predicted 7 foot storm surge over high tide in St. Petersburg, which would be a record for that city (the record is from Hurricane Elena in 1985 - 4 feet above high tide).

Now, forgetting me, what's far more concerning is for people living North of me in Pasco, Hernando, Citrus, Levy, Dixie, and Taylor counties. They are predicted far higher storm surge there (10-15 feet), and, of course, far higher winds.

Jim Cantore is camping out at Cedar Key, which frankly is a pretty stupid place to be. An island with no bridges to the mainland. Beautiful, picturesque place, but evacuation would likely be impossible. Plus it looks like the eye won't go over there anymore. But hey, TV. Those reporters love that video of them standing outside getting pounded by the storm. Whatever...

[Alan Rutherford]

The wind here will probably not be the issue. We've seen that multiple times before. The storm surge, however, has me really concerned. ...

The wind makes impressive graphics but water does the real damage.

I lived around water most of my life but it wasn't until I moved to Florida that I realized how a massive area of low pressure can lift the sea higher than it would ever be otherwise. And so much of Florida is barely above sea level. We're on a ridge 30 miles from the Gulf so more concerned with wind than tide but hope it goes well for you and everyone else.

[Bill Dufour]

But hey, TV. Those reporters love that video of them standing outside getting pounded by the storm. Whatever...[/QUOTE]
Here they like to get short young ladies to go tell us how deep the snow pack is. It is always above their heads if there is enough snow to bother reporting. Also useful for reporting on high winds if they are slim, which they are. Bonus points for long hair.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Yea, it's the storm surge that's going to be a "yuge" concern along that entire coast.

[Lee DeRaud]

It's also amazed me that so much of Florida remains using overhead power. I've wondered about that for years and wondered if the cost of so many "fixes" may have exceeded the cost to bury it earlier on. Who knows?
Not sure what the situation is like now, but when I lived in Orlando (1970-ish), the water table was measured in inches. Joke was, you could drill a well with a golf tee. Underground power lines implies underground transformers: I've seen multiple instances out here where heavy rain and transformer vaults refused to play nice.

I assume it can be done, but it definitely sounds like a trade-off.

[Paul McGaha]

Thoughts, prayers and good mojo for those in the path of the storm.

PHM

[Greg Parrish]

Alan, hopefully you didn’t get the surge you were worried about and all is okay.

Gusty wind and rain here. Hopefully we’ve missed the brunt of it in Tallahassee as well. Doesn’t look good for the Keeton Beach / Fish Creek area as well as up through central north Florida and South Georgia. Current radar shows it coming ashore and possibly going up towards Perry.

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[Alan Lightstone]

Real concern regarding those living in the Big Bend area of Florida. Damage there is likely to be catastrophic.

We didn't lose power. Areas close to us have. Storm surge is by far the most we've ever seen since we lived here. Likely most in history of St. Pete, Clearwater area. Fortunately, as of now, the storm surge hasn't come close to the house yet. Wind hasn't been impressive compared to hurricanes that have come closer. They've cut off access to all the barrier islands, and bridges to Tampa and Sarasota are now closed.

The timing of this storm coming at a King Tide is horrible. And having it intensify to Category 4 over the Gulf makes things so much worse.

Greg and Alan Rutherford are likely in much more impacted areas. Our collective prayers are for you, and all in the path of this storm.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Alan. We are only about 40 miles from Perry and it’s looking really bad there from the footage on the weather channel so far. Can only imagine how the Keeton Beach area must look. Of course, it’s not over but we got real lucky in Tallahassee. We are on the left side so it has to have helped with our wind levels. Haven’t seen any updates on damage locally but for the moment we still have power at my place. Still a constant wind level with some strong gusts, but nothing like the folks in Perry and elsewhere are seeing. Thoughts and prayers with everyone in its path.

[Greg Parrish]

Just saw this update locally:

”Update as of 8AM. NOAA Doppler radar imagery indicate that the eye of Idalia made landfall along the coast of the Florida Big Bend near Keaton Beach around 7:45 AM approximately 58 miles southeast of Tallahassee.
Data from an Air Force Reserve Hurricane Hunter aircraft indicate that Idalia's maximum sustained winds were near 125 mph (Category 3). The latest minimum pressure central pressure estimated from reconnaissance data is 949 mb.
Water levels along the coast of the Florida Big Bend are rising rapidly. A NOAA National Ocean Service tide gauge at Cedar Key, Florida, recently reported a water level of 5.9 feet above mean higher high water, which is an approximation of inundation in that area.
Locally, we’ve seen wind gusts near 45mph
Outages
Current Outages: 11,019
Outages Restored: 1335
10 circuits are currently down
Mutual aid crews are engaged and integrated with our crews. Crews have been responding to outages overnight and will continue to respond as long as it is safe to do so.
Now that the storm has passed central Florida, additional mutual aid resources from Kissimmee, Lakeland, and Orlando have been released and are en route to Tallahassee”

[Alan Lightstone]

Just saw this update locally:

”Update as of 8AM. NOAA Doppler radar imagery indicate that the eye of Idalia made landfall along the coast of the Florida Big Bend near Keaton Beach around 7:45 AM approximately 58 miles southeast of Tallahassee.
Data from an Air Force Reserve Hurricane Hunter aircraft indicate that Idalia's maximum sustained winds were near 125 mph (Category 3). The latest minimum pressure central pressure estimated from reconnaissance data is 949 mb.
Water levels along the coast of the Florida Big Bend are rising rapidly. A NOAA National Ocean Service tide gauge at Cedar Key, Florida, recently reported a water level of 5.9 feet above mean higher high water, which is an approximation of inundation in that area.
Locally, we’ve seen wind gusts near 45mph
Outages
Current Outages: 11,019
Outages Restored: 1335
10 circuits are currently down
Mutual aid crews are engaged and integrated with our crews. Crews have been responding to outages overnight and will continue to respond as long as it is safe to do so.
Now that the storm has passed central Florida, additional mutual aid resources from Kissimmee, Lakeland, and Orlando have been released and are en route to Tallahassee”
The US Coast Guard moved all their air units from Clearwater to West Palm Beach to aid in their distribution after the storm. Never heard of that happening before. The Coast Guard station here is massive, so fortunately they'll have lots of resources to come online when safe to do so.

I'm always amazed at the massive caravan of power trucks that drives into/around the state to restore power. They really do cooperate and work well after an emergency.

[Brian Elfert]

Not sure what the situation is like now, but when I lived in Orlando (1970-ish), the water table was measured in inches. Joke was, you could drill a well with a golf tee. Underground power lines implies underground transformers: I've seen multiple instances out here where heavy rain and transformer vaults refused to play nice.


Residential underground distribution in my area has above ground transformers. Transformers are underground in downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul. There is even at least one underground substation in downtown Minneapolis.

[Greg Parrish]

Same here. Our lines are underground but transformers are above ground. We are in a unique situation whereby our neighborhood has its own substations attached to the main high-power lines coming directly out of the power plant. These lines are the ones on the tall metal transmission towers. I don't have any proof but I feel like they fair better than the typical wood/metal pole might due to the line height and the tower framework. Anyway, in 14 years I can only think of one time we lost power for longer than a few seconds and it was due to a transformer being knocked out at the power plant itself during Hermine. In that case, we were out a day or two simply because they didn't have a spare of the same type on hand and had to source one from elsewhere.

However, most of Tallahassee is covered with above ground powerlines on wooden poles with much/most of it located within heavy tree canopy (live oaks and such). The bulk of town regularly looses power during storms. I count myself lucky for sure.


Residential underground distribution in my area has above ground transformers. Transformers are underground in downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul. There is even at least one underground substation in downtown Minneapolis.

[Jim Becker]

'Glad things are ok for you Alan.

Going to a Cat 4 is indeed scary and that sucker is going to continued as a Cat 2 well into/through Georgia, according to the forecast on the news this morning. That's one nasty storm!

[Rob Luter]

The question of why power lines are not underground comes up here every time there is a major storm that knocks out several hundred thousand customers. Luckily, such a storm has not occurred for several years. The power companies talk about the cost to put utilities underground and the higher ongoing cost to maintain underground lines. Apparently, it costs more to maintain underground lines than overhead I guess due to the cost of digging up or replacing underground lines. My parents had their underground feed go bad at least once. The power company thought an animal chewed on it.

My city has required underground lines since the late 1970s so there are few power poles. The power companies have been putting all new residential services underground for 40 years or so. I demolished a house with overhead service in 2001. The new house the power company ran the feed underground even though it goes overhead at the street.

I always wondered why they didn't run power lines under sidewalks in a trough, with concrete walking surface just set on top. This concept has been used for industrial wireways for decades.

https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/images/gallery/main/pfos-wiring-duct.png

[Stan Calow]

We live in tornado country, where every year major storms knock out power lines. Everyone screams about putting all the utilities underground, but no one seems to want to pay the cost to do that. Or to have their own trees trimmed away from lines. Must be someone else's job.

[Jim Becker]

I always wondered why they didn't run power lines under sidewalks in a trough, with concrete walking surface just set on top. This concept has been used for industrial wireways for decades.



It's a bit more complicated to do underground utilities in the "low country" because of water tables, etc. It's less about the wire/cable than it is about the transformers, switching gear (all electronic now) and so forth as all that stuff has to be kept dry 100% of the time, although the act of burying transmission lines (the high voltage stuff) as well as local distribution lines is still expensive, disruptive and no fun. That said, I still do think that ultimately it's a good thing to do so, but funding it...it's a big barrier. I suspect that wireless power transmission might happen sooner than funding burying everything... ;)

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

We recently had a very local bad storm. A couple thousand people were with out power for 5 days. The whining and complaining about lack of water (those on wells) or air conditioning, food in freezers going bad etc, was terrible. At least two fires started because of candles. The lack of common sense and preparedness was shocking. One neighbor asked if I would bring my generator over to run her refrigerator. Which would be great but we have two refrigerators and two freezers to keep going. (one or two at a time) I noticed she had a Toyota highlander. I asked, don't you have an outlet in your car? She didn't know. I looked, she had 2, one in front and one in back. 1500 watts each. Told her to get a heavy duty extension cord and plug it in to her frig for about 20 minutes every hour.

I asked about light. She was using candles. Told her Harbor freight has cheap battery operated lanterns, about $5 or $6 each. Gave her a 5 gallons of water from our well. How are you cooking? They ate cold canned spaghetti. Use your bbq grill - it's propane. just use it where it sits in the yard.

I really don't understand people's inability to prepare. In 25 years here, we have had around 30 days with out power. 3 times for five days or more twice that was in winter. . My Mrs insists on having double back ups for most things. We have the generator, as well as two inverters that can be hooked up to vehicles or the tractor. We have battery lanterns, flash lights, and oil lamps. We have the propane stove, grill and my old camping stove. There is a shelf in the basement with about 15 gallons of water, if we can't use the well. We keep jugs of water frozen in the freezers to take up empty room, so if the power goes out, there will be more cold mass inside the freezers to resist thawing. We don't normally eat canned good, but keep couple dozen or so cans around for "incase". We have small electric heaters and a small wood stove in the basement with the items necessary to vent it out the window, ( including a window fitting panel with a hole for the stove pipe) if there is a need for heat.

[Alan Rutherford]

Hurricane passed, we cleared the tree that fell right across the driveway, retrieved the car from where I had hidden it behind a neighbor's more substantial garage. The generator, which worked fine when I tested it Tuesday, refused to start post-hurricane after I topped it off with what was apparently bad gas. I drained the tank, replaced the fuel filter and filled it up with the 6 gallons I had left, which is not much facing a few days of power outages. The old window AC which we keep on the porch for days like this and has not been used for 3-4 years was apparently colonized by something we don't want to blow around the house, so no AC. Tonight we might move to the guest bedroom and use the AC unit I rigged to install in a casement window in case of needing to isolate someone during the pandemic - never been used so far. Our elecric co-op's website shows overall less than 10% power outages at this time, but about 50% in our area.

Really not so bad. Been here before. The freezer, refrigerator and propane grill are working. I was able to buy more ethanol-free gas for the generator this morning. Using the PC on its UPS battery which says it still has 20 minutes left unless I run another extension cord in here. I'm sure this has gone very badly for some people but local news seemed to be trying hard to find something dramatic to talk about (trees fell on cars, etc.) Could have been worse here. I hope everyone else can say the same.

[Alan Lightstone]

Glad to hear you've done relatively well, Alan. There was a big mess the day before the storm in Tampa where the Port of Tampa, which receives the gasoline that is distributed to gas stations had a mix-up and delivered diesel fuel to 21 gas stations labelled as regular fuel. So all the people who filled up in those stations essentially had inoperative vehicles and damage.

Having lived through many hurricanes hitting the state, we have developed a system for preparedness. And every few years, a new gadget comes out that helps more. Many have been with lighting. We picked up this Ego battery powered tripod light last year:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-EGO-10000LM-LIGHT-BARE-TOOL/5005390569
Since we already have Ego batteries for chainsaw, leaf blower, etc... it just allows that large 56V battery to light up a large room for up to 36 hours. Considering that you wouldn't have it on in daytime, that's a big deal. And since I have multiple batteries, really for a week. Pricey, and heavy, but really a nice device. Lots of other battery powered lights stationed around the house, plus a few plug in nightlights that come on if the power fails. Those won't last very long, but if the power fails at night, it helps you navigate to the better stuff. I went into great detail, and got lots of help from everyone here with the battery backup for our medication fridge. That concept would work for others too to get a fridge to keep at least a few things cold for an extended power outage.

We stock our freezer with multiple blue ice packs before a storm, with the thought to transfer some to the fridge when the power fails. This time, I took a few plastic bottles from lemonade and filled them with water and froze them before the storm. When our power was turned off for 2 hours, I put them in the fridge. If anything, the temperature in there was colder than normal at the end of the power outage. And when I took them out to thaw, they have taken over a day to thaw just sitting on the counter, so some serious thermal mass there, and that cost nothing. Gonna keep two empty bottles on a shelf for the future. Having the SensorPush sensors in both fridges allowed me to see if the food was safe in them. Those were great. Only worked on Bluetooth, so with power out they read just fine.

In my last home we had a portable generator. Our mantra was that if you lose power after a storm, you need one cool room to sleep/stay in, lights in that room, and a working fridge. Not a whole house. Our portable generator couldn't power the kitchen fridge, so a small portable fridge it was, with a large cooler and ice packs. Had plenty of gas, a transfer switch, and a safe location to run the generator. For the one room we had a portable AC unit. Very efficient, although a tad inconvenient. The house had central air, so no powering that off a small generator.

My friend has a natural gas whole-house generator. $15K. Thinking that if my house lost power and I lost all of the food, there's no way it would add up to much more than $1K, so I never saw the economic rationale for doing that. I really wanted to put battery backup on my large solar array, but Duke Energy down here gives only pays you back about 1/4 the cost of electricity for surplus, so spending $30K or more to supply half a house with electricity after a storm also made no economic sense. And the solar arrays stop working when the power fails, so that's no use to me either. :mad:

While we have some candles, they've sat unused for 27 years. I don't imagine we'll ever use them after a storm.

Propane grill outdoors, to heat food. In 1985 we lived North of Boston. Hurricane Gloria went through, and we didn't have power for a week. Of all places, not in hurricane country, that's my longest power outage. I had some lamb chops that were going to go bad, and was a poor intern, so I fired up the BBQ grill on the deck and cooked them. Note to self, don't cook outdoors during a hurricane. The flames shot up so high that I had to take a fire extinguisher to the grill. Grill destroyed (never could get that taste/smell out of it), food destroyed. Ah, to be young and stupid. Sigh...

For this storm, being really worried about storm surge, I set an alarm for 2:00am (high tide during the storm), and looked out the window with a flashlight and looked at the security cameras to see if I needed to go out in the storm to move the cars to higher ground. Fortunately, didn't have to. That's our real issue here. And a Tesla sitting in salt water isn't a good recipe for avoiding a fire. Tesla interestingly sent me two notifications before the storm. One to charge the car to 100%, and the other to take standing water - especially standing salt water seriously and get the car away from any buildings if that occurred.

Anyway, a few lessons learned. Tons more. The people who have lived through these natural disasters (hurricanes, tornados, forest fires) learn the lessons and are better prepared for the future. We worry, and not in a condescending way, about the huge influx of people that have moved into the state and have never been through one. After Hurricane Charlie went through Florida, I drove with the kids through Arcadia to go across the state. The kids saw the insane number of uprooted trees with 15ft high root balls sticking out of the ground. Neither kid has forgotten that memory, so they take these storms seriously. Never been a joke / lets have a hurricane party mentality for them. Really glad I did that.

[Bill Dufour]

For camping we fill two liter bottles with tap water and freeze. One gallon milk jugs also work. It also provide drinking water as it melts.
If the fridge or freezer is empty having empty or full jugs of water prevent losing cold air every timer the door is opened. Saves energy year round and is a cushion during a power outage.
bill D