Featherboard on Jointer?

[Homer Faucett]

Okay, so I finally got the blades sharpened, re-installed, and tuned up the 1960's Craftsman jointer that was given to me. Tonight, I got to try it out on some 5/4 white oak that I have had sticked and stacked for about 5 years in the hay loft in my barn (read woodshop). After my first attempt a year or so ago at using it, I was convinced that I would be more successful jointing with a butter knife. However, after tuning this bad boy up, I am pleased to say that it actually works!

I took the 12" x 12' board down to a manageable length of about 27" and ripped that piece into roughly four 2.75" pieces about 27" long so that I can dress out the edges of my MDF tablesaw outfeed table with a durable edge. While I'm sure my technique is not perfect, I was pleased with the results. I'll plane down the other sides tomorrow night after work.

Okay, on to my question: It seems to me like featherboards might give me a more consistent result in jointing. Do any of you use featherboards on your jointer? If so, how did you rig the featherboards to fit on the fence?

I'm quite excited, as I finally have a functional tablesaw, jointer, planer, and band saw. The workshop cabinets and countertops are the next on my list, once the weather warms up enough for me to paint the cement block walls with some epoxy paint. The old barn will never look the same again!

[Jeff Horton]

I don't even own a jointer yet... well power jointer. I do have and use a #7 stanley. I am seriously looking to buy one soon and from what I gather most folks just take a very small cut and make multiple passes if needed.

I wouldn't think you would want to push down on the wood much at all. It sorts of defeats the purpose of a jointer. If your pushing down on a cupped board and run it through, when you remove the pressure it is still going to have a curve in it. I would think that you want to limit the depth of cut so that you just put enough pressure on the board to keep if stable and no more.

If I am mistaken I am sure someone well correct me.

[Vaughn McMillan]

I could stand corrected, but I believe one of the reasons featherboards aren't used is because the pressure applied to the workpiece shifts as the piece is fed through the jointer. At the beginning of the cut, you're pushing down lightly on the infeed side, but shortly thereafter, you shift your pressure to the outfeed side.

- Vaughn

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hey Homer, how about some pics? :D

I've got an old Japanese jointer, it is 8" wide, and I restored it, I just love that old iron.

Anyways, any kind of downward pressure on the board would not be a good thing, IMHO, but a feather board on the bed of the jointer pushing the wood against the fence would be a good thing.

I very much want a set of these.......

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/34752b-lg.jpg

Grip-Tite 2000 (no affiliation etc etc)

I would like a set, as I can use them on the jointer, and on Big Blue, my resaw bandsaw. I could use them on my TS as well, I'd just have to put a piece of metal on the fence.

Sure look like they would work great!

Cheers!

[Bill Lewis]

I use exactly what Stu just posted, Grip-Tite's. Though I have the older wooden models. I rarely use the one in the vertical, because most boards are too tall when edge jointing. Yes Stu, they do work great for all the things you mentioned. They are sold primarily as a Table saw accessory, but I am not alone, there are lots of guys that use them as suggested.

Stu, are you unable to obtain these for some reason, or are they just very pricey because of the international thing?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I don't know of anyone selling them here in Japan, but I can order from Rockler.com etc, I've just not saved my pennies....:rolleyes:

On my list of things to get.....

But I did see a LARGE bandsaw here with an interesting attachemnt....

http://img109.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/8/2/3/8/ssk_tenpo-img350x499-1112264873ma0329-05-1.jpg

http://img109.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/8/2/3/8/ssk_tenpo-img350x196-1112264906ma0329-05-3.jpg

That thing would push against the board to keep it on the fence, might make one of them...

...it would have to be removable, but I could see it working.

Cheers!

[Steve Schoene]

The question with the feather board is where to use it. Downward pressure on the board is necessary, just not on the infeed table. The best place for that pressure is just beyond the cutter head to ensure that the board stays registered on the outfeed table. But you can't start the cut with the board on the outfeed table, you would have to push it under the feather board while it was cutting. Don't see why it couldn't work, but I haven't done it.

My left hand takes that role. The right, with a heavy padauk push shoe, applies forward pressure over the infeed table. (The padauk came from a pallet found left out in the trash on the street in Manhatten--NYC, not Kansas)

[Jim Becker]

"Pressure" on a jointer needs to be limited to only what is necessary to keep the board on the tables and moving forward. And as indicated, the point you apply it shifts to the outfeed side once it's safe to do so. For that reason, using feather boards really isn't a great idea on this machine. (I have the same trouble invisioning using a power feeder on a jointer for the same reasons, although I know some folks do so in production situations) Learning how to move the material through a jointer using your hands/push blocks is just a matter of practice and is actually quite easy...it's a "feel" thing...

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I agree with you Jim, and they way you describe it is what I do, but I'd still like the pressure against the fence when edging a taller board, it just makes it easier for me, the fence on the green meanie is not that tall.

Cheers!

[Jon Farley]

I sometimes use my grip-tite magnetic featherboard on the jointer bed, but only when edge jointing wide boards which, without the aid of the featherboard, will have a tendency to want to "kick out" from the fence. IMHO, having the featherboard mounted on the fence and applying downward pressure would accomplish little, if anything.

[Rod Torgeson]

Yes, feather boards are a good idea on a jointer. I had about 50 or 60 1" x 12" x 10' pine boards that I was milling to be used for "V" groove tongue and groove paneling. I needed to get a straght edge before ripping them to width. When jointing a tall board a feather board can be use to keep the board from "kicking out" as was mentioned in another post. I used a feather board on the infeed table and the outfeed table, not the fence. Hope this helps. Rod<---in Appleton, WA

[Lee Schierer]

Hey Homer, how about some pics? :D

I've got an old Japanese jointer, it is 8" wide, and I restored it, I just love that old iron.

Anyways, any kind of downward pressure on the board would not be a good thing, IMHO, but a feather board on the bed of the jointer pushing the wood against the fence would be a good thing.

I very much want a set of these.......

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/34752b-lg.jpg

Grip-Tite 2000 (no affiliation etc etc)

I would like a set, as I can use them on the jointer, and on Big Blue, my resaw bandsaw. I could use them on my TS as well, I'd just have to put a piece of metal on the fence.

Sure look like they would work great!

Cheers!


I have a set and they are great. I use them on all my tools with cast iron table. They go on and off in seconds and hold the work securely. Be sure to get their ripping rollers if you buy them.

[Homer Faucett]

"Pressure" on a jointer needs to be limited to only what is necessary to keep the board on the tables and moving forward. And as indicated, the point you apply it shifts to the outfeed side once it's safe to do so. For that reason, using feather boards really isn't a great idea on this machine. (I have the same trouble invisioning using a power feeder on a jointer for the same reasons, although I know some folks do so in production situations) Learning how to move the material through a jointer using your hands/push blocks is just a matter of practice and is actually quite easy...it's a "feel" thing...

Jim, I don't understand why a featherboard "isn't a great idea" based upon your post. Sure, the featherboard will be attached to the fence, and over the outfeed side of the table. That way, you have constant downward pressure (and you can adjust the pressure pretty easily) at the exact same point. It seems to me that would make your jointing more consistent.

After all, if featherboards aren't a good idea for jointers, why are they used so often for router tables? They both operate pretty similarly, and you can easily use a router table to edge joint.

If you have a featherboard, it seems to me that you aren't moving two sets of hands on either side of a cutter. In my mind, that improves safety.

Further, you can concentrate on keeping the feed speed consistent, which I would think would also improve your results.

Just my thoughts.

[Homer Faucett]

Hey Homer, how about some pics? :D

I'll see if I can make it out to the barn tonight with the camera. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's not much to look at. The 1960's jointer isn't much to look at, but it gets the job done . . . now.

[Steve Clardy]

I don't run featherboards on a jointer.
Don't see a need.
#1, my question is, for you that want to run one, if you have a featherboard on the top edge of narrow board, where is the room for your hands to push the wood through?:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Homer Faucett]

I don't run featherboards on a jointer.
Don't see a need.
#1, my question is, for you that want to run one, if you have a featherboard on the top edge of narrow board, where is the room for your hands to push the wood through?:confused: :confused: :confused:

You push on the infeed side of the wood. The featherboard is on the outfeed side of the board. It works a lot like a router table featherboard setup.

[Steve Clardy]

You push on the infeed side of the wood. The featherboard is on the outfeed side of the board. It works a lot like a router table featherboard setup.

I run the feather board over the bit on a router table.
Guess that would work on a jointer, feather board on the outfeed.
But seems like a pain to me;) :D

[Jim Becker]

I agree with you Jim, and they way you describe it is what I do, but I'd still like the pressure against the fence when edging a taller board, it just makes it easier for me, the fence on the green meanie is not that tall.

Stu, now that's an application that makes sense...

[Jon Farley]

Jim, I don't understand why a featherboard "isn't a great idea" based upon your post. Sure, the featherboard will be attached to the fence, and over the outfeed side of the table. That way, you have constant downward pressure (and you can adjust the pressure pretty easily) at the exact same point. It seems to me that would make your jointing more consistent.

After all, if featherboards aren't a good idea for jointers, why are they used so often for router tables? They both operate pretty similarly, and you can easily use a router table to edge joint.

If you have a featherboard, it seems to me that you aren't moving two sets of hands on either side of a cutter. In my mind, that improves safety.

Further, you can concentrate on keeping the feed speed consistent, which I would think would also improve your results.

Just my thoughts.


Jointers and router tables are totally different in this regard. "Constant downward pressure" is not desirable when face jointing a board. With most other machines (like a router table) it is, but not with a jointer. With a jointer, the idea is to take one face of a rough board, which almost always has some degree of warping, and making it flat. To achieve true flatness, the key is to just guide the board across the jointer beds with as little pressure as possible, and what pressure is applied should be put on the 'head' of the board, which is the first part to pass over the knives, and essentially just dragging the rest of the board across the knives, and letting them take off the "high spots." Of course the process is repeated over and over again until there are no high spots left and you are left with one flat side - next step: planer. By attempting to apply downward pressure, you will diminish the effectiveness of the jointer, which will leave you with smoothly faced, yet still warped board. This is especially true on long boards. The same effect occurs if you try to send a rough board though the planer as a first step. Note: this does not apply when edge jointing.

Downward pressure is good with router table because you are already using a finished (i.e. squared, flat) board that needs to be pushed down and sideways against the squared fence and table in order to to get a consistent cut.

The reason I feel qualified to give this response is because for the longest time when I got my first jointer I did things the wrong way. When I finally figured out the right technique it made a world of difference in the quailty of my finished projects.

[Homer Faucett]

So, Jon, let me see if I understand . . . you don't put downward or sideways pressure on the outfeed side of the board when you are jointing your board? How do you keep the board in contact with the table, then?

I could understand why you wouldn't want to put pressure over the cutter head, but i'm not sure I understand why you don't want to put pressure on the outfeed side.

It seems to me that is what you do with your hands already.

Applying costant downward pressure to a board when jointing does not turn a jointer into a planer, otherwise all jointers would become planers when we placed our hands on the wood. The important part seems to me to be where the pressure is applied to the wood, and how much.

[Jon Farley]

[quote=Homer Faucett]So, Jon, let me see if I understand . . . you don't put downward or sideways pressure on the outfeed side of the board when you are jointing your board? How do you keep the board in contact with the table, then?

Gravity takes care of this for you.

If you 'assist' the gravitational force by applying downward pressure, you are in effect 'squishing' the board's defects onto the table (even just if on the outfeed side), thus onto the cutterhead. When the pressure is released, the board will 'spring' back into it's warped form, even though it might appear flat because the face is smooth.

Again this process I'm talking about only applies to face jointing a board, not to edge jointing, which is a whole other ball of wax, sort of.

I know it might seem hard to understand (it's a hard thing to explain), but in practice it is really quite simple.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have to agree with what John is saying here, the amount of pressure that you would apply to the board with your hands, is very little, you do not want to have the board bend, or spring, or deflect in any way, this cancels out the whole point of using a jointer.

It is king of a "Feel" thing that you have to do, once I'd used the jointer for some time, I found that the "Touch" needed just came to me.

Cheers!

[Jim Becker]

To clarify...and I totally agree with Jon...there is a "fine line" between enough "pressure" to keep the board on the outfeed table and too much "pressure that causes deflection. It's something you learn to do by feel. A feather board is too static in this respect as every board is different and it changes with every pass. (I'm speaking about face jointing / flattening here)

[Keith Barkhau]

I think all of this has already been said, but I'm going to ditto some of the earlier posts....

I have to agree with Jim, Stu and others that you are probably better off using your hands (with push blocks of course). For one, there is a transfer of your downward force from being applied more to the infeed side to more on the outfeed side that happens as the length of the board moves across the jointer, and second you are really only applying enough force to keep the board flush with the fence and generate enough friction between your pads and the board to allow you to push it forward. I have found this "feel" to be especially important when face jointing since the last thing I want to do is push my board hard enough to flatten the bow I am trying to joint out.

With all that said I do have a set of grip-tites and have used them on my jointer, but only as someone mentioned above when edge jointing a wide board in order to help me keep it flush to the fence. I would be concerned that if one used them for anything more than very light downward pressure that they would begin to work like the pinch rollers on a planer.

Just me $0.02's worth....

[Homer Faucett]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I wanted to make good on my promise to Stu with the pics, so here is the less than spectacular jointer, the rough stock, and part of it faced two sides.

1960's Sears-Simpson Craftsman Jointer

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31099&stc=1&d=1139036102

Rough sawn Oak
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31100&stc=1&d=1139036102

Boards edge and face Jointed
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31101&stc=1&d=1139036102

[Norman Hitt]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I wanted to make good on my promise to Stu with the pics, so here is the less than spectacular jointer, the rough stock, and part of it faced two sides.

1960's Sears-Simpson Craftsman Jointer

http://image64.webshots.com/164/2/26/29/2294226290053973826isFGFe_ph.jpg

Rough sawn Oak
http://image50.webshots.com/150/6/71/26/2400671260053973826rJCEaR_ph.jpg

Boards edge and face Jointed
http://image53.webshots.com/153/7/34/0/2680734000053973826jZZRtL_ph.jpg

Sumpin' must have gone wrong........I can't get the pics to open.:confused: :(

[Homer Faucett]

Okay, I've been fiddling around with this thing, and I think you should be able to see the pics below. The original post won't edit properly, and the picture upload format is not very user friendly compared to other php boards I have used. This is my last try . . .

Craftsman jointer
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31099&stc=1&d=1139036102

Rough Sawn Oak

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31100&d=1139036574

Jointed boards

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31101&stc=1&d=1139036102

[Dev Emch]

Jointers and router tables are totally different in this regard. "Constant downward pressure" is not desirable when face jointing a board. With most other machines (like a router table) it is, but not with a jointer. With a jointer, the idea is to take one face of a rough board, which almost always has some degree of warping, and making it flat. To achieve true flatness, the key is to just guide the board across the jointer beds with as little pressure as possible, and what pressure is applied should be put on the 'head' of the board, which is the first part to pass over the knives, and essentially just dragging the rest of the board across the knives, and letting them take off the "high spots." Of course the process is repeated over and over again until there are no high spots left and you are left with one flat side - next step: planer. By attempting to apply downward pressure, you will diminish the effectiveness of the jointer, which will leave you with smoothly faced, yet still warped board. This is especially true on long boards. The same effect occurs if you try to send a rough board though the planer as a first step. Note: this does not apply when edge jointing.

Downward pressure is good with router table because you are already using a finished (i.e. squared, flat) board that needs to be pushed down and sideways against the squared fence and table in order to to get a consistent cut.

The reason I feel qualified to give this response is because for the longest time when I got my first jointer I did things the wrong way. When I finally figured out the right technique it made a world of difference in the quailty of my finished projects.

Jointers like the T-54 Martin and the Hofmann both have provisions for using a power feeder. Does a power feeder not put downward pressure on the board just aft of the cutter head?

[Jon Farley]

Jointers like the T-54 Martin and the Hofmann both have provisions for using a power feeder. Does a power feeder not put downward pressure on the board just aft of the cutter head?

It sure does, and I have heard of people using power feeders on a jointer, but I stand by my assertion that as little downward pressure as possible will yield better and more consistent results over the long run.