Japanese hand planes

[Reed Gray]

Among my future projects are to make some of the solid wood Japanese style pull planes. Is there a source for them in the US? I did find one at Lee Valley, but it has a screw cap type chip breaker. I did see that Woodcraft had some, but couldn't really tell about quality. So, any suggestions? I am blessed or cursed with having to experiment.

Also looking for some plane 'floats, which are essentially rasps, and would like to find a US source for them, but not having much luck.

Robo hippy

[Jim Koepke]

My lack of experience or knowledge with Japanese style pull planes is unsurpassed. :D

Regarding floats…

One of my favorite float style file's was found at an estate sale.

For something available in the current market maybe start here > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/search#q=plane%20float&t=product-search-tab&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25

jtk

[Edward Weber]

Hey Reed, here are a couple of places
https://kakuritools.com/
https://hidatool.com/
https://osakatools.com/

[Howard Pollack]

Here's another idea: buy an old worn one off of ebay to get a blade, get a block of hardwood and carve or build (Krenov style). There are plans on the web for a dai (the wooden block). If I can do it you can! I've made them of purple heart and Japanese white oak (I have a stash of those blocks). Supposedly Bay is good and I imagine that beech would work very well. As for floats, google "auto body file" you will find ones quite similar to floats- they work really well. Have fun.
=Howard

[Cameron Wood]

If you're going to make some, why do you need a source?

[Richard Coers]

Among my future projects are to make some of the solid wood Japanese style pull planes. Is there a source for them in the US? I did find one at Lee Valley, but it has a screw cap type chip breaker. I did see that Woodcraft had some, but couldn't really tell about quality. So, any suggestions? I am blessed or cursed with having to experiment.

Also looking for some plane 'floats, which are essentially rasps, and would like to find a US source for them, but not having much luck.

Robo hippy
How familiar are you with Japanese planes? Do you know how to dress the sole for either truing or surfacing? Relief cuts at the throat so the body doesn't crack, fitting the blade, etc? https://giantcypress.net/ is a great blog for information, Japanese Woodworking tools by Henry Lanz is a good book, and of course Japanese Woodworking Tolls: Their Tradition, Spirit and Use by Toshio Odate.

[Cameron Wood]

How familiar are you with Japanese planes? Do you know how to dress the sole for either truing or surfacing? Relief cuts at the throat so the body doesn't crack, fitting the blade, etc? https://giantcypress.net/ is a great blog for information, Japanese Woodworking tools by Henry Lanz is a good book, and of course Japanese Woodworking Tolls: Their Tradition, Spirit and Use by Toshio Odate.



Published in 1899??

[Reed Gray]

As for why I need one in hand, I do have Scott Wynn's book on Japanese style hand planes. I am one who needs an actual piece in hand if I am going to make them. I have watched a whole bunch of You Tube videos on setting them up and using them, so I at least have an idea of what I am getting into. Surprising that the sole is actually not totally flat, but concaved before and behind the blade. While not stated, I am wondering if this will help make up for the tendency of flat planes to end up with a slightly convex surface on long jointing passes since hand planes don't have infeed/outfeed tables. One of the more interesting videos I saw, the guy put a piece of end grain in right ahead of the blade, which is the high wear part on the sole. This also is done with some of the western style planes. Ed, I will look up those sources. Oh, the plane floats, if you have ever watched the Stavros Gakos videos on You Tube, I am guessing he made all of his floats. They are as impressive as his finished products. If you haven't seen his videos, you should. True artistry.

Thanks for the responses.

robo hippy

[Richard Coers]

Published in 1899??
My copy was copyrighted in 1985 by Sterling Publishing.

[Edward Weber]

Reed, I understand why you want one to examine/use and get a feel for.
One suggestion is to get one of these inexpensive planes.
https://kakuritools.com/collections/japanese-planes/products/kakuri-smooth-plane-white-oak-body-42mm
They are even less on Amazon, $28.80
This is a great little plane for the price but it also has all the elements you want to look at.
Just a suggestion

[Richard Coers]

As for why I need one in hand, I do have Scott Wynn's book on Japanese style hand planes. I am one who needs an actual piece in hand if I am going to make them. I have watched a whole bunch of You Tube videos on setting them up and using them, so I at least have an idea of what I am getting into. Surprising that the sole is actually not totally flat, but concaved before and behind the blade. While not stated, I am wondering if this will help make up for the tendency of flat planes to end up with a slightly convex surface on long jointing passes since hand planes don't have infeed/outfeed tables. One of the more interesting videos I saw, the guy put a piece of end grain in right ahead of the blade, which is the high wear part on the sole. This also is done with some of the western style planes. Ed, I will look up those sources. Oh, the plane floats, if you have ever watched the Stavros Gakos videos on You Tube, I am guessing he made all of his floats. They are as impressive as his finished products. If you haven't seen his videos, you should. True artistry.

Thanks for the responses.

robo hippy
The sole either runs on 2 or 3 lines across the plane, but both profiles have contact on the leading edge and immediately in front of the blade. The system works very well for me.

[Cameron Wood]

My copy was copyrighted in 1985 by Sterling Publishing.


That sounds more reasonable. A couple of reviewers said not much covered beyond what's in Odate's book. What do you think?

[Cameron Wood]

As for why I need one in hand, I do have Scott Wynn's book on Japanese style hand planes. I am one who needs an actual piece in hand if I am going to make them. I have watched a whole bunch of You Tube videos on setting them up and using them, so I at least have an idea of what I am getting into. Surprising that the sole is actually not totally flat, but concaved before and behind the blade. While not stated, I am wondering if this will help make up for the tendency of flat planes to end up with a slightly convex surface on long jointing passes since hand planes don't have infeed/outfeed tables. One of the more interesting videos I saw, the guy put a piece of end grain in right ahead of the blade, which is the high wear part on the sole. This also is done with some of the western style planes. Ed, I will look up those sources. Oh, the plane floats, if you have ever watched the Stavros Gakos videos on You Tube, I am guessing he made all of his floats. They are as impressive as his finished products. If you haven't seen his videos, you should. True artistry.

Thanks for the responses.

robo hippy



I would just get some on ebay. By the time you get them tuned up, a lot has been learned and there is little need to start from scratch. If you make a plane body, you need the irons to start with, and the Japanese oak really is the best material for the body, so that would be bought.

Letting in a piece in front of the mouth is to make the opening smaller- it gets bigger as the sole is conditioned repeatedly.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155693007442?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25269 9%26meid%3D75d83a460f484ad4a6bd72e6cccceee1%26pid% 3D101195%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D155708736618%2 6itm%3D155693007442%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D204 7675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambd a85KnnRecallV1V2V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRa nkerAndBertRecallWithVMEV3&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A15569300744275d83a460f484ad4a6bd72e 6cccceee1%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABUPqB0EgCndAssfMWNy0AT0Gy tGzF9%252By0G%252BlcW69DgBK3Qlz4BjwJQqPkN4K8I7qz9G oVciN1QNWqyS8EeqYS8rZRsDvyvw34m3N%252FyJKokwCTIIc3 RNym2SNW8ARudP72DyiwgIY0dfUnIr5%252BMZDTaottLZ4kZD rHj51t4JIFfooA9j5GOl4Jy2oMn5N3XFU7mQVSczN2JtGrVZRN MlgW2CJPMG%252Ftk7b%252F%252FDtgPSRRFsHv12W1TyTZZ5 tL4t7FQIGnVcjIloVTeB0yyTSWueCuGgBHg9YTKc1di1GdNvJX iUF6FSlZUkNUfxfiov2ZNFCbYZNTbslrssDXbwXS57Cn%252BH ZrQeM2tKMmOWMNJ4Cf71auq8Kty9ereit1p%252FN7dPstkGq7 BokOQWMwW5VFnYDR9nc8m9QMnkVNInMXKdILmLBWKb2HMIFJ89 vHwb833Zs6mA%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A20 47675

[Cameron Wood]

Reed, I understand why you want one to examine/use and get a feel for.
One suggestion is to get one of these inexpensive planes.
https://kakuritools.com/collections/japanese-planes/products/kakuri-smooth-plane-white-oak-body-42mm
They are even less on Amazon, $28.80
This is a great little plane for the price but it also has all the elements you want to look at.
Just a suggestion


That is a handy little plane, like a block plane, but not to be mistaken for a typical smoothing plane, with an iron almost twice as wide.

[Edward Weber]

That is a handy little plane, like a block plane, but not to be mistaken for a typical smoothing plane, with an iron almost twice as wide.
It's a little workhorse, good for lots of things. It's usually the first thing I reach for.

[Cameron Wood]

It's a little workhorse, good for lots of things. It's usually the first thing I reach for.



Yes, I have two similar. One set for a medium cut, the other a medium fine cut.

506154

[Richard Coers]

That sounds more reasonable. A couple of reviewers said not much covered beyond what's in Odate's book. What do you think?
It's a simple read with great details on setting up some of the tools.This is where I got the best tips for setting the hoops on chisels. I am a real fan of Odate since listening to him at a symposium. He is a great story teller and touches my passions for woodworking. Since I have hundreds of books, I have both. Would I suggest one over the other? Both have a purpose, but with good information on the internet now i would probably just get Odate's book. Learning about Japanese tools was much different when I bought both of those books than now.

[Mike Allen1010]

Lie Neilson sells plane floats which if You have any interest in building planes are really pretty essential. I highly recommend them.

As to the question of building your own Japanese planes; it might be useful to consider your motivation. I've built dozens of planes that I use on a daily basis, in addition to lots of other hand tools my shops including marking tools, joinery saws etc. My experience is of all the woodworking hand tools I built, the issue of precision/accuracy/tolerances and their relevance to ultimate tool performance is most pronounced with regard to hand planes. If you think about the exact physics and tiny dimensions of the shavings were talking about, building tools to really small tolerances definitely matter here. Don't get me wrong, I encourage anyone to try and make their own hand planes – it's definitely totally doable, but not the place I would start if my goal was to produce a well-functioning tool better than what I could buy. Building a Kernov style laminated plane is straightforward and more easily accomplished by most woodworker. Ron Hock sells blades and I think the kits are otherwise available commercially to make this easy. For me, the ROI on buying

IMHO, the chief virtue of Asian/Japanese hand planes is the quality of the steel in the blades, which in my practical experience is really, really good. I got a great results with PMV 11, O1 and A2 blades, but if I had to be honest there's something about the Japanese steel/blades that sets them apart. I also like the versatility of being able to use a pull Japanese plane when the grain requires it, versus having to reorient the work piece on the bench. That said, IMHO the ROI on making your own Japanese style plane versus buying from an established maker is limited. Don't let me discourage you and please share your results.

Best , Mike allen

[Eric R. Smith]

Shoot me a pm and I will send you a couple of beaters I have. You pay shipping.

[Richard Coers]

Lie Neilson sells plane floats which if You have any interest in building planes are really pretty essential. I highly recommend them.

As to the question of building your own Japanese planes; it might be useful to consider your motivation. I've built dozens of planes that I use on a daily basis, in addition to lots of other hand tools my shops including marking tools, joinery saws etc. My experience is of all the woodworking hand tools I built, the issue of precision/accuracy/tolerances and their relevance to ultimate tool performance is most pronounced with regard to hand planes. If you think about the exact physics and tiny dimensions of the shavings were talking about, building tools to really small tolerances definitely matter here. Don't get me wrong, I encourage anyone to try and make their own hand planes – it's definitely totally doable, but not the place I would start if my goal was to produce a well-functioning tool better than what I could buy. Building a Kernov style laminated plane is straightforward and more easily accomplished by most woodworker. Ron Hock sells blades and I think the kits are otherwise available commercially to make this easy. For me, the ROI on buying

IMHO, the chief virtue of Asian/Japanese hand planes is the quality of the steel in the blades, which in my practical experience is really, really good. I got a great results with PMV 11, O1 and A2 blades, but if I had to be honest there's something about the Japanese steel/blades that sets them apart. I also like the versatility of being able to use a pull Japanese plane when the grain requires it, versus having to reorient the work piece on the bench. That said, IMHO the ROI on making your own Japanese style plane versus buying from an established maker is limited. Don't let me discourage you and please share your results.

Best , Mike allen
Well said Mike! Another consideration about Japanese planes is that they can change with the weather, and tuning can be a seasonal experience for the first few years for sure. So even tuning a high end tool should be expected because of way the soles are dressed, but also because the blade wedges into the body. Buy a used plane and invariably you see a mushroomed edge on the top where users hit them harder instead of tuning the fit of the taper. I hate that kind of disrespect for the tool!

[Cameron Wood]

It's a simple read with great details on setting up some of the tools.This is where I got the best tips for setting the hoops on chisels. I am a real fan of Odate since listening to him at a symposium. He is a great story teller and touches my passions for woodworking. Since I have hundreds of books, I have both. Would I suggest one over the other? Both have a purpose, but with good information on the internet now i would probably just get Odate's book. Learning about Japanese tools was much different when I bought both of those books than now.


Thanks. I've had "Japanese Tools..." for many years, looking to pick up additional bits of info.. I came across and purchased Dale Brotherton's book last year, which is very good and worthy of support.

It has a section on making a dai that would be good for the OP.



Question: What is a plane float? I looked on Lie Nielsen site & didn't see anything answering to that description.

[Edward Weber]

Thanks. I've had "Japanese Tools..." for many years, looking to pick up additional bits of info.. I came across and purchased Dale Brotherton's book last year, which is very good and worthy of support.

It has a section on making a dai that would be good for the OP.



Question: What is a plane float? I looked on Lie Nielsen site & didn't see anything answering to that description.

It's a fancy file/rasp for building planes
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/4098/planemakers-floats
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/files-and-rasps/files/69096-japanese-milled-tooth-extra-fine-side-plane-makers-float?item=62W3096

[Reed Gray]

Eric, I would like to take you up on that, but can't figure out how to PM you. If you can PM me, that works, and/or I can post my e mail here. It might be up on my woodturning videos on You Tube also. Leave a comment maybe....

robo hippy

[Eric R. Smith]

Reed, I sent you message

[Reed Gray]

Got the message Eric, thanks!

Another side note, I have noticed in watching videos about using the Japanese style planes, they pull in a straight line, and never skewed. I am guessing that has to do with the concave parts of the soles of the plane. Any other reasons?

robo hippy

[Edward Weber]

Got the message Eric, thanks!

Another side note, I have noticed in watching videos about using the Japanese style planes, they pull in a straight line, and never skewed. I am guessing that has to do with the concave parts of the soles of the plane. Any other reasons?

robo hippy

Reed, I think has more to do with individual style than anything else. I've seen many kanna users, including myself, slightly skew the tool why making certain cuts.
It has nothing to do with the concave area of the sole, which is minuscule. thinner than a sheet of printer paper.