What can a 3 HP router do that a 2.x HP one can't - handheld?

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have a Bosch 1617 plunge and fixed base set.
I also have a Milwaukee 5625-20 mounted in my table.

I picked up a JessEm lift for the Bosch so I can swap it out with the Milwaukee for running rails and stiles or any other T&G type stuff.

I plan to use the Bosch for handheld - if I need more power than one of the compacts can deliver - rather than go to the trouble of taking the Milwaukee off the plate, since it's pretty easy to get the Bosch out.

I'm not real clear on what the extra HP would be needed for something handheld.

[Richard Coers]

Like asking the difference of a 200hp truck and a 250hp truck. Both get you where you want to go, but on a steep grade climb pulling a trailer, you want the 250. Put a large raised panel bit in either of your routers and which one handles it better across end grain?

[Aaron Inami]

A 3HP will probably work better in a router flattening sled/jig system. Other than that, I don't know of anything that really needs a 3HP hand-held. I guess if you really wanted to throw in a 3" to 3-1/2" diameter large profile bit and run it hand-held, but this is usually done in a router table anyways.

[andy bessette]

There have been times that I had to use my 3-1/2 hp Stanley router handheld (usually in table).

[Rob Sack]

When used in a table, I would think the higher the horsepower the better. Used as a hand held tool, if the cutter is so large and/or the cut is so deep that you need the extra hp, the larger hp router should throw you across the room farther or worse when something goes wrong.

[Bill Dufour]

I doubt there is any actual difference in hp. I think it is marketing hype unless one has a 20 amp plug or is 240 volts and the other does not. Kind of like sears air compressor hp claims before the lawsuit.
Similar to lawn tractor hp and real tractor hp a real tractor has to be tested and deliver the stated output.
Bill

[Jim Becker]

Stop thinking in terms of "horsepower" here since it's not likely an accurate measure...it's about power in watts and the associated amperage draw. The larger, 15 amp, 120v router is going to be able to swing large tooling, such as panel raisers, without much sweat where the 12 amp, 120v router is going to not be as happy about the same task, for example. It's going to get hot faster and "could" have reduced service life, too. This is one reason why the heftier 15 amp motors are preferred in router tables. Now if you don't swing large diameter tooling, the 12 amp, 120v routers, including the kits with all the bases, are really good values and are very versatile. Keep it to 2" and under and be careful of depth of cut, and they will work and last a long time.

[Derek Cohen]

Well said and explained Jim.

I use a 25-year old Elu (forerunner of DW625) in my router table. It is 1700 watts or 12 amps. It meets all my needs in regard to power in pretty hard Australian woods. However I do not use 2" wide bits. I doubt I ever shall.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Cutler]

You won't see any difference.
Jim's explanation is very good, with one caveat, There is no 2, or 3 HP motor running on 120, with a 15 amp plug on it. That's marketing and advertising.
The Marketing says that my Festool OF2200 is more powerful than my 3HP Delta shaper. Not a chance. I would destroy that OF2200 in seconds, if I tried to get it to do what my shaper can.
Both of the router you spec'd are top notch pieces of equipment. Well received and reviewed through the years. You won't have any trouble.

[Bill Dufour]

Note that Dereck is probably using 230 volts. So his 12 amp router would need 24 amps on 120 volts.
Bill D

[Rich Engelhardt]

Thanks everyone!

It's just as I suspected - not enough difference to bother with.

[Warren Lake]

ILl stay with the 7518's most powerful router ive used have snapped bits. HP makes a difference if you work tools hard.

[Jim Becker]

Note that Dereck is probably using 230 volts. So his 12 amp router would need 24 amps on 120 volts.
Bill D
I do not believe that is true relative to the specific tool he mentions.

[Ron Selzer]

I prefer higher power routers when I can use them for the job. Same bit the higher power one is easier for me to control, goes where I want it to. A lower power one wants to jump, jerk, bog down, etc.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I prefer higher power routers when I can use them for the job. Same bit the higher power one is easier for me to control, goes where I want it to. A lower power one wants to jump, jerk, bog down, etc.
Good point Ron.
That's what I was looking for.

[Rick Potter]

You mean my six HP Shop Vac motor isn't really six HP? I guess that means my plan to put it in a compact router might not be the great idea I hoped for?

I was gonna be king of the shop with a six HP hot rod compact.

[Cary Falk]

I wouldn't want to run any bit in a handheld router that would require 3+hp.

[John TenEyck]

You will see the difference of how well a 3 hp router turns a 2" slab flattening bit on a router sled compared to the 2-1/4 hp Bosch. You will see the difference if you do any handheld edge profiling with a large bit, say a giant thumbnail bit, especially since those need to be run a low rpm where torque is everything. For typical use, however, I see no difference other than weight.

John

[Cameron Wood]

Tire your arms out more?

[andy bessette]

Tire your arms out more?

Quite the opposite. A tool with adequate power is actually less tiring.

[John Lanciani]

Quite the opposite. A tool with adequate power is actually less tiring.

+1. A big router, with big bearings and a heavy well balanced rotor is a pleasure to use freehand. My Swiss made DW625 gets a regular workout, and it makes short stress free work out of anything i ask of it. It powers through knots, end grain, and anything else with ease. It is far less tiring and much easier to use than any 1.5 - 2 hp router I've ever used.

[Cameron Wood]

Quite the opposite. A tool with adequate power is actually less tiring.


I had a big Makita plunge router, but I rarely used it. Have various mid-sized ones, and a bunch of trim routers. I can't recall having a router actually bog down.

[andy bessette]

I had a big Makita plunge router, but I rarely used it. Have various mid-sized ones, and a bunch of trim routers. I can't recall having a router actually bog down.

Perhaps you don't have any cutters large enough to require more horsepower? Or get by with many thin passes? My largest is 3-1/2" IIRC and requires my largest router.

[Cameron Wood]

Perhaps you don't have any cutters large enough to require more horsepower? Or get by with many thin passes? My largest is 3-1/2" IIRC and requires my largest router.


The biggest are a round over and a chamfer, each about 2"D. I can't really picture using a 3 1/2" cutter freehand in a router.

[Jim Dwight]

I agree with the thought that router HP ratings are pretty much meaningless. Best to talk in terms of maximum amp draw. I have a fixed (hand held) base for my 15A porter cable router but have never used it. I might some day and the cost difference was very small at the time. The difference hand held is the same as the difference in the table. With big cuts, the larger router will do in one pass what takes two with the smaller draw router. Making multiple cuts is more challenging hand held, however. So if you need to run a really big bit hand held, you may want the bigger router. But I haven't yet. But I love the big PC in the router table. I used a 13.3 am router previously and I didn't think the difference would be that large but it seems like it is. If I had to I could get by with my two PC 690s, I did for awhile, but I am happy to have the big PC (and also a Colt).

[Wes Grass]

+1. A big router, with BIG BEARINGS ...

I was wondering if that's the case with the larger routers. Larger spindle would be stiffer and less prone to deflection and chatter.

[Warren Lake]

router is a shaping tool.

I use them as much or more so for cutting tools. If you have a 1/2 bit 2-3 inches long two carbides or stagger tooth and are plunging and cutting into solids or 1 1/2" of ply you will work the router hard depending on you. How deep do you plunge what is your feed rate as the router is screaming.

Many people seem to sound afraid of tools, I read it all the time so I know they dont push them. I push tools hard so the big porters have been screaming many times. they claim 3 1/4 HP I dont have a dyno in my shop but there is zero chance id be doing past stuff on a smaller router. They could not keep up. You loose RPM instantly and feed rate and cut quality go down. Like most of the posts it gets back to what do you do. The 2 HP will take care of you, it wont take care of me, my choice in how I work and different types of work ive done.

Same time raised panel bit in a router have no use for that. even the first 2 HP shaper didnt have the balls to raise panels with a freud carbide cutter. It worked but not compared to one pass on 6 - 9 HP.

[Curt Harms]

I prefer higher power routers when I can use them for the job. Same bit the higher power one is easier for me to control, goes where I want it to. A lower power one wants to jump, jerk, bog down, etc.

I wonder if some of the jumping and jerking has to do with the lighter weight of the lower powered unit. If I'm removing much material and can, I'll make two passes. I know sometime you can't. When using panel raiser 3.25" bit for example, more power is better though people do use those bits in 2.5 H.P routers and make more passes.

[Wes Grass]

"3-1/4 HP"

IIRC, that's calculated from the voltage and starting current draw. Universal motors not regulated the same as 'real' induction motors?

Not sure if any of us could actually hang on to a router that's really using 3 HP.

I'm imagining a Briggs loaded up and I've got to hold it down with my teenage girl sized hands ...

Happy to just imagine it. Kind of nice to still have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs. Even if one of the fingers is a little bit shorter than it used to be ...

My old 'Uncle Lou' had a few nubs. Story was 'Korea, grenade fragments'. Grew up in Arkansas, maybe just the typical farm equipment injuries that were so common 'back in the day'. Considering all the other 'stories' he told me that I eventually figured out were out and out lies ...

But he really was "the world's greatest painter".

Disclaimer: Dogfish 90, and a Thirsty Goat. Will hit the Still Austin bourbon later ... ;-)

[Wes Grass]

The depth/width of cut is important. Bury a 1" endmill in steel on a Bridgeport and you've got an issue. A big Cincinnati wouldn't know it's there.

Back to a previous comment. I've seen a decent cut with a 3/4" cutter on a Bridgeport continue cutting after disengaging the table feed. The spindle is flexing between the bearings under load, and springs back to 'straight' when you stop feeding it. And its visible on the 'floor' of a blind slot.

[andy bessette]

A Bridgeport would not be considered a heavy duty mill.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I guess from the above that - as long as I stay well under the 3" diameter bits and take fairly small bits at one time, a 13 amp router, like the Bosch 1617 will work about as well as my Milwaukee 5625-20 15 amp.

Should the desire to flatten a large slab consume me, I can always run out and pick up a Triton 15 amp if need be.
After all - like clamps - you can't have too many routers :D

[Mike Cutler]

Rich

Nope, you can't have to many routers.
I have two Bosch routers from Lowes that are dedicated just for use with a dovetail jig. Two PC 8529's, Two Festools, and a PC690. There might ne another one out there???

I do have a question for folks in general.
Are folks really using 3-1/2" diameter bits in a router, handheld, on a routine basis? especially a panel raiser. I can see it in a table, but that's a lot of mass spinning in your hand. I have the Festool OF2200 and it's supposed to be able to do that, but I won't. I think the biggest router bit I have is 2-1/2" in diameter, and that was used in a table.

[Patty Hann]

Only having 4 routers, I do not yet qualify to enter the sanctum sanctorum of "High Quantity Router Ownership."
I have the older (no soft start) Bosch 1617EV originally destined for dual use--table and handheld--- until I discovered the not minor inconvenience of that practice.
The table gets the recently acquired Milwaukee 5616-20, and the Bosch will be exclusively for handheld use.
I still have my little Ridgid trim/compact (which was my first router of any kind) and I don't have any complaints about it. I will probably put it to a "dedicated" use.
The 4th router is the Dewalt DWE611, my go-to compact router.

[Tom Bussey]

The original question is what can a 3 1/2 HP router do that a 2 + can't. A PC 7518 and the Bosch 1617 are both variable speed routers so both can run larger bits. Like the example of the load size between two different sized trucks,. I have a Ranger and in the fall I haul fire wood home. What I could do with my old truck with a 8 foot box, I can not do with my Ranger. I can only haul about 5/8th the weight per load so it takes me longer. But the money I save in fuel costs through out the year more than offsets the the extra four or five loads once a year. fuel.

My question is if you are a hobbies and maybe are on a limited budget and maybe get to work at your hobby maybe 5 hours a week. What difference is there if you have to take 2 cuts instead of one. I haven't used a large enough bit to make a difference in a year. I do have a 7518 routers in two of my 4 router tables. I also have 2 1617 one in a multi router and one table- hand held And later the 1617 get most of the work. And my hand held Makita battery powered router gets 75 % of the work now. Most is edge forming which a 1 HP router can do.

So my answer is they will both do the task. But if you are doing production you need a shaper not a router in a table.

[Wes Grass]

A Bridgeport would not be considered a heavy duty mill.

Yeah, it's kind of the 1617 of milling machines. But a big step up from a Clausing 'trim router' ;-)

[Warren Lake]

7518 is a production router when it has a production operator.

The shaper cant plunge and do cut outs, router shaper two different machines, in what they do and how they do it.

The shaper cant do tight radius its limited to its head size.

3 plus HP routers win. You have to handle more weight, its part of it and it does the job better and at times when others would not keep up depending on the machining and how aggressive the operator is.

[Michael Rutman]

It's very good for building up muscles. That's a heavy router to use freehand.

[Curt Harms]

I do have a question for folks in general.
Are folks really using 3-1/2" diameter bits in a router, handheld, on a routine basis? especially a panel raiser. I can see it in a table, but that's a lot of mass spinning in your hand.

Hand held panel raising bits seems like something I'd expect to see in a video titled "Stupid woodworking tricks." "Hey y'all, hold my beer and watch THIS". If memory serves, some of the better router cutter manufacturers specify that 3"+ panel raising cutters be used in a router table only.

[Mike Cutler]

Curt

Maybe I'm reading into it to much,or reading to much into it? It seemed as if some lines were getting blurred
I'll stick with what I have and what works for me.
My OF 2200 is a beast, but it is very stable. In clear wood, you can easily freehand to a pencil line. The other routers I have are about 2HP and they work fine.
Warren does have a point about mass and weight, with respect to power and versatility. I have the OF 2200, only because my PC 8529's could not router out 2" thick padauk cleanly, handheld. They were really struggling. The OF2200 just breezed through the cuts, that brought the 8529's to a stall.
When the bits get bigger, I use my shaper. I don't have a router table any longer. Just no need for one, for me.

[Mike Mason]

I do not believe that is true relative to the specific tool he mentions.

The formula for power is simple:

Output Watts = Amps x Voltage x Conversion Efficiency

Even if a small router motor were to be 100% efficient (which they are not), a router pulling 12 amps at 120 volts cannot possibly output any more than 12 x 120 = 1,440 Watts. Anything more than that would violate the first law of thermodynamics - you would be creating energy and putting out more power than you put in.

[George Yetka]

Keep the power in the table. I find myself at the table for most things. The dust collection is better and im less likely to rotate the router messing up my profile. Large projects that I need to run handheld rarely need a large bit.

[Jim Becker]

The formula for power is simple:

Output Watts = Amps x Voltage x Conversion Efficiency

Even if a small router motor were to be 100% efficient (which they are not), a router pulling 12 amps at 120 volts cannot possibly output any more than 12 x 120 = 1,440 Watts. Anything more than that would violate the first law of thermodynamics - you would be creating energy and putting out more power than you put in.

Please read what I was responding to...it's relative to my answer that you quoted.

[Mike Mason]

Stop thinking in terms of "horsepower" here since it's not likely an accurate measure...it's about power in watts and the associated amperage draw. The larger, 15 amp, 120v router is going to be able to swing large tooling, such as panel raisers, without much sweat where the 12 amp, 120v router is going to not be as happy about the same task, for example. It's going to get hot faster and "could" have reduced service life, too. This is one reason why the heftier 15 amp motors are preferred in router tables. Now if you don't swing large diameter tooling, the 12 amp, 120v routers, including the kits with all the bases, are really good values and are very versatile. Keep it to 2" and under and be careful of depth of cut, and they will work and last a long time.

I agree - the basic formula is Output Power = Amps x Voltage x Motor Efficiency. Marketing departments can't dance around the truth about amps like they can about horsepower, so, assuming that the motor efficiency is about the same from brand to brand, use amps rather than horsepower to estimate the output power. In the above example, 15 amps is 25% more than 12 amps, so the output power will be 25% more. More specifically, assuming 100% motor efficiency (which is untrue), the most power that a router having an input of 12 amps at 120 volts can output is 12 x 120 = 1,440 watts, or 1.93 hp (1,440 watts / 746 watts/hp = 1.93). A sticker indicating anything more than 1.93 hp is in violation of the first law of thermodynamics - the router would be generating energy.

[James Jayko]

Nope, you can't have to many routers.

I remember reading about a luthier, maybe James Olson (I say that with very little confidence), who had something like 100 routers all setup for dedicated tasks. That's a lot of routers!

[Mike Cutler]

I remember reading about a luthier, maybe James Olson (I say that with very little confidence), who had something like 100 routers all setup for dedicated tasks. That's a lot of routers!

I would venture to say that Mr Olson was operating under the principal that saving steps, saves time, and money.A luthier works in thousandths, and having to retool a cutter on router would not be cost effective.
Other than my Festools, all of my routers were bought for less than $100.00 each. There is no shortage of routers on Craigslist, or the return/clearance table at Lowes. ;)

[Chris Pyle]

router is a shaping tool.

I use them as much or more so for cutting tools. If you have a 1/2 bit 2-3 inches long two carbides or stagger tooth and are plunging and cutting into solids or 1 1/2" of ply you will work the router hard depending on you. How deep do you plunge what is your feed rate as the router is screaming.

Many people seem to sound afraid of tools, I read it all the time so I know they dont push them. I push tools hard so the big porters have been screaming many times. they claim 3 1/4 HP I dont have a dyno in my shop but there is zero chance id be doing past stuff on a smaller router. They could not keep up. You loose RPM instantly and feed rate and cut quality go down. Like most of the posts it gets back to what do you do. The 2 HP will take care of you, it wont take care of me, my choice in how I work and different types of work ive done.

Same time raised panel bit in a router have no use for that. even the first 2 HP shaper didnt have the balls to raise panels with a freud carbide cutter. It worked but not compared to one pass on 6 - 9 HP.

Warren, I'm certain you are an accomplished woodworker given your posts/posting history. Don't you also believe there is a healthy fear with all woodworking tools? Routers are not exempt and if we ever lose that fear, I believe that's when we experience some unpleasantness (or teeter on that verge). All this to say, it's healthy for people to question and be timid about big power and big bit usage. Plan the steps and research the steps when possible, then execute. Things go south quick at 10-20000 RPMs.

[Chris Pyle]

Curt

Maybe I'm reading into it to much,or reading to much into it? It seemed as if some lines were getting blurred
I'll stick with what I have and what works for me.
My OF 2200 is a beast, but it is very stable. In clear wood, you can easily freehand to a pencil line. The other routers I have are about 2HP and they work fine.
Warren does have a point about mass and weight, with respect to power and versatility. I have the OF 2200, only because my PC 8529's could not router out 2" thick padauk cleanly, handheld. They were really struggling. The OF2200 just breezed through the cuts, that brought the 8529's to a stall.
When the bits get bigger, I use my shaper. I don't have a router table any longer. Just no need for one, for me.

Could you elaborate on this? You were routing out 2" thick Padauk pockets? Were you doing this in a single pass? Just curious about your process and where you ran into power limits. I don't run into them but I don't panel-raise with routers.

[Warren Lake]

Chris no im not afraid of the tools and ive had the mishaps in different ways on top. They were all positive though could have been really serious some. The fluke of the running router then setting ti down running blew air under my red green shirt and pulled it into my stomach with a 3" cutting length bit was less than ideal but it stalled the router.

Ive done a lot of free hand router work climb cut then go back take off the last whatever. Or take off to whatever hit it with a custom bearing leaving .020 over the one more cut that is the final crisp smooth and clean. Ive used routers to cut parts that is not using the bandsaw to rough out first. Thats how I snapped bits but think about it CNC is just using a router to cut the same way only it does the work not us. then it becomes how hard to you push things. Me too hard at times, thats how bits broke. yes bearings were not happy but those routers still hve the same original bearings and work great just noisey when you are pushing past their comfort zone.

There is time on the machines that does stuff that is positive, more time helps us. The old guy taught me stuff, not enough. Id have 1000 questions more for him now. Two weeks before he died he said you know it all. the next day I said you know what you said yesterday he said yes and i said I dont and neither do you. He turned bright red and laughed. I used tell him I know 1 percent of what he has seen and its true. Figure you start at 14 in a town that has been bombed and you are making gothic windows coffins church doors and and and no more than a kid at the time. He got a variety in a shop head of the guild so he saw so much. Shop was just coming off belts. His boss was a big deal with a big deal story and machine companies used to bring him machines and he even wrote in trade magazines doing reviews. I remember John laughing saying sometime he thought they were poor and wrote that in the magazine, he did not hold back. The machines he liked stayed and he got rid of ones he had for better. I have that a bit now upgrading machines over what I had and really appreciate the heavy machines even old as they are.

friends in big shops saw more than small shops. they did stuff people dont know about and it was not shared. Its competition if the machinest guy in the shop makes special tools you dont share that with the shop they were competing against for work.

There is a natural ability and or comfort as well like with music and lots of craft trade stuff. Not saying I have it but the time on the machines does make it or add to whatever you have. There is zero chance you will ever see me race a bike at Isle of Man. I get afraid just watching them last week on onboard cameras. In the off topic someone posted photos of him way up on rocks. I looked at the photos and instantly my energy flies all over and I feel vertigo if that is what its called. Im totally uncomfortable with heights. I did two roofs and the last one had to tie myself off and roofers would have laughed at me it was a bungalow one 4/12 one 5/12 that one maybe older I had to make a tie off system to take slack out then I was fine. Compare it to a full blade guard on a saw. Im used to a blade no riving knife but at times a trick or two and for a reason this saw now a riving knife not made right but I get it its like the rope for me on the roof for others.

Ive ripped materials solid stock ten foot many times skipping steps and stalled a 3 HP saw. Ive dropped on 100's of times for years no stops, I dont recommend stuff I do and I dont always do it one or two cuts is one thing 200 is another. Kick backs are faster than any Tesla. I dont call ripping materials and it wanting to push back a kick back as its not. For the saw I was way too rough no riving knife ever so pinch the blade stall it shut if off with my knee or lift off the blade go in again. I had the benefit of long weeks doing same operations. if you have spent 80 hours a week on machines jointers saw etc then you have just done many hours and have more of a feel or know the machines more. Look at the top musicans like Tommy Emmanuel, hes still practising every day. time on stuff more time helps us.

In many cases were are more powerful than the machines are, not always of course it depends what it is what the cut is etc. I dont find a 3HP Porter cable router heavy. i get it has weight but sitting on the wood im not holding the weight and its me controlling it, I control it not it controlling me Im trying to say we have more power over the tools than some think. If the RPM stay up when you use it its safer and works better so thats why I want more power. this saw is 9 HP I grew up on 3 so far its not been angry and it cuts like a razor so lesson learned the more power on it so far has been better if i push a bit RPM stays up.

sorry for the long ramble, what was the question.

[Mike Cutler]

Could you elaborate on this? You were routing out 2" thick Padauk pockets? Were you doing this in a single pass? Just curious about your process and where you ran into power limits. I don't run into them but I don't panel-raise with routers.

Chris “pockets” was a bad term. Apologies for the incorrect term.
What I was routing out were the cutouts in this Limbert Turtle Back library table, that inspired the center island in our kitchen.
506963
This trestle end is 1-1/2” thick for the cutouts. The vertical legs are 3” thick, and the top support is 1-3/4” thick.
The cutouts were being routed to the final dimension with a Whiteside 1/2” straight cutter, 2-1/2” long, with a bottom bearing.
My PC 8529’s could not do the work required for all of these pieces. I struggled for quite some time, before I gave up, or risked messing up the project. I bought an OF2200 and was done in minutes, using the same Whiteside bit.
The 8529 is a very nice router. Not well received due to ergonomics,but a nice router. The OF2200 is in a different category altogether.

I've never run a panel raiser, "handheld" on a router either. I just got the impression from the responses that folks were running big bits, handheld. Probably a wrong interpretation on my part.
Looks like I need to do some dusting from the looks of that stretcher/shelf.
It looks as if Calypso, our cat, photobombed the pic.She doesn't care though. Cats are sociopaths. ;)

[Warren Lake]

mike how did you do that. Id likely use a template in a router and a jig in a plunge router and plunge in whatever amount at a time both ways can be done of course and more. Its an easy plunge job with a plunge router as you control the amount you take off in each plunge so how much load you are putting on the router. Thats where i get too aggressive but more so on plywoods. Id treat solids with more respect as its not just get the job done its get it done and its seen. For a bit with a bearing what did you do drill a large hole and then carve the material out till the bearing contacted the jig. If I did that on a plunge id focus on cutting down and not pressing the sides much then once all cut out id do another pass but make sure good pressure on the sides and it would clean up some tiny amount and leave a nice finish. Forward passes cut nice and clean when there is only a tiny amount of material being removed.

[Mike Cutler]

Warren

If I remember correctly, I first tried it with a bottom template, and drilled a hole. I know I gave up at one point because my hands were getting hammered.
I tried to remove the bulk with a jig saw, but the edge started to splinter, so I stopped.
The bit was brand new, so I was confident it was good.
I transferred the bit from the PC, to the Festool, and everything went smooth.
I built that center island trestle table about 12-15 years ago, so some of the details escape me.

[Warren Lake]

thanks Mike that makes sense I wondered how much you removed. With longer bits we cna get surprised with some kick and buck at times. I had the tool and die maker make me a sleeve for a router bit past and its been used tons doing stuff over size then one more pass for clean. I forget stuff as well sometimes hard to say what you did and if not for a while easier just to do it. Template bushings and how they sit in router bases is often not true so you can use that to your advantage you go where it leaves material then rotate to where its going to remove material one some that are centred I filed them so I could rotate the router to that area and remove some thous more for certain things. Always depends on what it is and we adapt. on stuff open not enclosed like that I still really liked floating backwards then forward almost no material there and nice clean cut.

I think another aspect of a tool (router) with weight its like the Radial arm saw, my craftsman was poor but the heavier one not so it doesnt try and grab the same its not flexing in the mechanism and its got weight there. I guess that is what you found in the second router you used.

[Chris Pyle]

Thanks for the thorough explanation Mike! I'm understanding better what you ran into.

Warren, you are in a different league when it comes to time with the tools so I defer to your judgement for how you use your tools. I appreciate the lengthy response, it's obvious you know your tooling. I'm not as confident and I haven't had as much time on my tools, if something doesn't feel right, I back off immediately and reassess for a bit before either continuing on or devising a new strategy.

I'm not comfortable enough to know when I can "bear down". I try to error on the side of too-early when it comes to swapping blades/bits/sharpening because that takes me where I want to go. Of course, I'm not competing against the guy across town. I'm only competing with myself, trying to outdo my previous work.

Different approaches for all of us but the same goal of producing things.