Loose Dowel Fit After Drilling

[Jay Knobbe]

This is my first time working with dowels. I have a new Jessem 8350 kit with the adapters to do 1/4" dowels. Here is my concern:
I built a wall to wall bookcase/TV unit, sprayed in Inslx Cabinet Coat. Cabinets below, shelves on top. We decided after it was built the 3/4" shelves (edge banded birch ply) look too skinny so I am reducing the depth of the shelves by 3/4" and using 1x2 maple, ripped to 1"x3/4" to add some thickness to the front edge of the shelves. I thought the splined dowels would press into place holding everything in accurate alignment for glue up. What I have are dowel/holes that are a bit loose in the holes. We're talking a small amount of movement. If I soak the dowels in water they swell enough for a nice hand press in fit but I'm not certain I should be doing it that way. Of course I'm looking for a flush top surface with the additional 1/4 width extending below the 3/4" shelf for a little beefier appearance.
The Jessem is a nice piece and I am taking great pains to accurately mark and drill each hole, keeping the chips cleared out of the hole as I go. My goal here was alignment more than strength so my biscuit jointer would be no help.
Your experience and advice is appreciated.

[John TenEyck]

I would have made a rabbett in the back face of the maple edging so that it was just proud of the shelf and glued it on w/o any other joinery. But if your parts will fit well if you soak the dowels in water then that's what I would do. They aren't needed for strength; the glue on the mating edges will be plenty strong enough.

John

[Richard Coers]

Must fluted dowels are made to expand from the glue, not soaking ahead of time. I'd grab some scrap and do a few experiments on how to make them work.

[Rick Potter]

I have found there are 'good' and 'bad' dowels, usually differentiated by price. The cheapies are usually smaller than the more expensive. I have a lifetime supply of good ones my dad left me, so no real recommendations.

I suspect most are a metric equivalent to standard sizes, close but not correct. I have found long dowel stock from the home centers is usually small.

Further, I find that not all drills are the same. Try drilling a half inch hole using spade bit, then a metal drill bit, then a forstner, then a brad point. Then try some half inch dowels in each. I was certainly surprised that some were loose, some tight.

[Jay Knobbe]

Inever considered that. I may go in that direction. Thanks!

[Jay Knobbe]

Yes, that is how I learned the fitment is loose. Experimenting on scrap. I tend to do that whenever I can due to my inexperience. After reading and watching vids on youtube I assumed the dowels would fit snug for "instant alignment" not waiting for the glue to expand while I fiddle with the alignment and cauls. Just kind of disappointing I guess. Thanks for the tip.

[Tim Andrews]

I use dowels for a lot of my joinery, with a Dowelmax jig. Since I live relatively close to the ocean in the foggy SF Bay Area, humidity often causes the dowels to swell too large. I cook them in the microwave for 1 to 3 minutes to get them to roughly the correct size. Not every dowel will be exactly the same, so during the dry fit I pick the ones that go in by hand but still produce a snug fit for good alignment. I once cooked them a bit too long and they were too loose, so I sealed them in a plastic bag with a wet paper towel overnight, and they regained their original size. I store them in a tightly sealed plastic bag to keep out the moisture.

[Curt Harms]

I suspect most are a metric equivalent to standard sizes, close but not correct. I have found long dowel stock from the home centers is usually small.

Further, I find that not all drills are the same. Try drilling a half inch hole using spade bit, then a metal drill bit, then a forstner, then a brad point. Then try some half inch dowels in each. I was certainly surprised that some were loose, some tight.

I think dowels are sort of like plywood - really metric dimensions, or perhaps just sloppy manufacturing tolerances.

[Jim Becker]

I think dowels are sort of like plywood - really metric dimensions, or perhaps just sloppy manufacturing tolerances.
Anything like that made from wood is going to become misshapen over time from moisture content changes...they get "unround" most commonly but can also change overall dimension because of that. When they are hidden, such as with joinery, doing what's necessary to make them fit is kewel. If they are going to be exposed, it's worth considering getting or constructing a dowel making plate to "make them fresh" from the same stock as the project, IMHO.

But yes, some could be manufactured to metric sizes while being marketed as Imperial.

[Kevin Jenness]

High quality fluted or spiral dowel pins matched with high quality drill bits and accurate boring methods fit well and give predictable results, that's why they are so widely used in industry. I can get quite accurate registration with 20 y/o fluted pins boring with Lee Valley brad point bits on my horizontal mortiser. Using a Dowel-it jig and a hand-held drill, not so much, and with hardware store dowel rod all bets are off.

Another reliable way to get a flush glue surface is with well-fitted splines in a groove routed with a slotting bit in a router. Do you really want a flush joint here, though? With pre-finished material any minor unavoidable discrepancies will show unless masked by a micro-groove or a small height difference. To get a really clean flush joint you will probably need to sand and respray the shelves and edgebands. My typical cabinet shelf uses pre-finished plywood and solid edges with a 1/32" offset established with routed grooves and biscuits.

[Edwin Santos]

Have you tried a different brand or different batch of dowels?
The Jessem jig is excellent, and capable of insanely accurate work. Your plan seems pretty good to me.

Was the dowel fit loose in both mating pieces? I ask because it can be harder to securely clamp the Jessem to narrow stock, so I am wondering whether the hole is accurate in the shelf and loose in the new trim piece. If so, it points to a clamping issue.
HTH

[Mel Fulks]

I’ve got a piece of junk steel plate ,1and 1/4 inch thick . Drilled under sized holes ,then used big counter sink to champher top and bottom
Driving the dowels through the right size hole . They don’t lose any wood ,just get compressed. I thin the yellow glue with a little
water. The dowels never split the work ,and never loosen. Standard procedure in many old shops.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I don't use dowels for primary joinery. But I do sometimes use dowels to pin M&T joints. In which case I use a hunk of actual dowel - good quality stuff, various hardwood species and sizes on hand. It is basically a perfect fit for for a forstner hole, or brad point hole from quality [LV] bits.

I take the dowel hunk and a pair of pliers and crunch around the dowel to create a low-tech version of fluting, out of the plier teeth indentations, for glue channels, and use any handy sandpaper or rasp to put an alignment bevel on one end

I am pretty doggone certain I have a few store-bought fluted dowels here somewhere, but I don't know where. Musta come from Highland some years back.

I do realize that this is of no help to the mainline theme here. But maybe someone needs only a few and can use this.

[andy bessette]

You could try dipping the dowels in catalyzed epoxy, and letting that partially cure before inserting them, using epoxy for glue.

[Jay Knobbe]

Have you tried a different brand or different batch of dowels?
The Jessem jig is excellent, and capable of insanely accurate work. Your plan seems pretty good to me.

Was the dowel fit loose in both mating pieces? I ask because it can be harder to securely clamp the Jessem to narrow stock, so I am wondering whether the hole is accurate in the shelf and loose in the new trim piece. If so, it points to a clamping issue.
HTH
Yes, the fit was loose in both pieces. What I ended up doing was drilling my holes on opposite sides of 1x3 maple so I had good stable clamping faces, then ripped to final dimension. For this project I ended up soaking the dowels for about 15 mins which made them too tight. I waited about 30mins as they dried out a bit and I could push them in with some slight resistance. I pulled them out, glued everything up and clamped in place. The outcome was acceptable to my finicky eye.

[Jay Knobbe]

High quality fluted or spiral dowel pins matched with high quality drill bits and accurate boring methods fit well and give predictable results, that's why they are so widely used in industry. I can get quite accurate registration with 20 y/o fluted pins boring with Lee Valley brad point bits on my horizontal mortiser. Using a Dowel-it jig and a hand-held drill, not so much, and with hardware store dowel rod all bets are off.

Another reliable way to get a flush glue surface is with well-fitted splines in a groove routed with a slotting bit in a router. Do you really want a flush joint here, though? With pre-finished material any minor unavoidable discrepancies will show unless masked by a micro-groove or a small height difference. To get a really clean flush joint you will probably need to sand and respray the shelves and edgebands. My typical cabinet shelf uses pre-finished plywood and solid edges with a 1/32" offset established with routed grooves and biscuits.
Excellent point. I routed the mating edges with an 1/8" Amana 45 degree chamfer bit. My brother taught me rather than trying to make the joint look perfectly flush to make the joint look intentional with a groove or round over bit.

[Kent A Bathurst]

FWIW - There is an outfit called Widget Co. They sell bits and pieces of stuff. Wide range. I have used them to buy face-grain plugs in various diameters and species. Yes, I can make my own, and have done often. Bu I gotta tell you, I cannot match the quality of what they do, nor the price - too much of a hassle to compete with them, to be honest. Unless I need some bizarre species.

It's like 16 - 20 cents each for the face-grain 5/16" and 3/8" , in maple, oak, cherry, walnut, mahogany. That's the price break at 25 pieces. Cheaper for end grain. Volume price breaks. Pricing includes shipping. That's like $4.50 for 25 pieces of 3/8" cherry or walnut showing up in my mailbox. Gotta be some slick machining process to pull that off.

They also sell birch fluted dowel pins. Given the quality of the plugs I use, I have gotta believe their dimensions are dead-nuts on target.

Also cork sheets, space balls, all kinds of stuff.

In case the dowel-heads here are interested in a quality source.

[andy bessette]

I make my own plugs from the job's scrap so the color and grain matches perfectly. Fuller plug cutters produce the correct fit for their counterbores.

[Cary Falk]

I have the older Jessem doweling jig and all of my dowels are tight to the point some are hard to remove if I did a test fit. I would say try some dowels from somewhere else. I can't remember where I got mine from. I bought in bulk at one time. Mine are fluted not spiral. I usually have to put them in the microwave to shrink them a little so I can do a test fit.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I make my own plugs from the job's scrap so the color and grain matches perfectly. Fuller plug cutters produce the correct fit for their counterbores.

Yep - got the same gizmo set right here. Plus other plug-cutter diameters. Been right beside you in years past, Andy. Works great. I just changed gears for no particular reason other than I did. I just welcome the "no-mess" version.

My stuff has devolved/morphed into versions that don't have visible grain-match plugs. If there are visible plugs, they are off-setting species for show, or the grain match doesn't matter because it's ebonized. When I return to the Arts & Crafts stuff of my misspent younger days, I'll use a squared hole, and a square ebony plug, like as not.

Otherwise, I tend to pin the joint from the inside, and while pegs may do it, more likely than not its SS or brass screws through the M+T joint. So I've done a lot of what you describe. I'm somewhere else now, and appreciate a source so I don't have to fool with it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

And my order for 50 pcs of plugs is in the mail within 2 hours. I don't understand how these Widget people operate, but I dig it.

[andy bessette]

... visible plugs, they are off-setting species for show...
my order for 50 pcs of plugs is in the mail within 2 hours...

If I did this on a yacht the owner would fire me and hire someone else to fix it (and I would lose my word-of-mouth customers). Plus I don't have to wait for someone else to ship them.

[Kent A Bathurst]

If I did this on a yacht the owner would fire me

Then don't do it, right? Unclear how that applies to my situation, or likely 99+% of others here, but carry on.

[andy bessette]

... Unclear how that applies to my situation, or likely 99+% of others here...

Shortcuts aren't for everyone. Plugs are mostly intended to hide the fasteners--not create an opportunity for embellishment. It takes hardly any extra effort to actually hide them.

Introducing contrasting woods into an assembly is often way overdone and frequently the brainchild of beginning woodworkers and amateurs. One takes great risk when doing so. Especially since there are almost limitless choices available--in other words there are more chances of getting it wrong than right. And so often those attempts look contrived, at the very least.

There is a wonderful Yiddish word "ungapatchka" which means:overly ornate, busy, ridiculously over-decorated, and garnished to the point of distaste.
Picture an old woman with rings on every finger, strings of beads, broaches, necklaces, bracelets, etc--well you get the picture.

It has been said that the absence of everything unnecessary leads to the purest design (or something like that). Basically it is wise to exercise caution when the urge to "decorate" comes upon us.

[Kent A Bathurst]

...Shortcuts...intended to hide ....... embellishment..........way overdone..... beginning woodworkers and amateurs........those attempts look contrived.......garnished to the point of distaste.....old woman....urge to "decorate" ....

Lousy 14-cent piece of wood is a very emotional issue, eh Andy? All because I shared a source of quality fluted dowels, and many other items, including plugs? And my work does not meet your standards?

You familiar with Gustav Stickley and Greene & Greene?

Overdone? Amateur? Contrived? Distaste? Old Woman?

The condescension was unnecessary.

We proles and substandard hacks meekly rely on the benign oversite of our betters, while knowing we can never hope to scale the heights of Mt Olympus to sit at the feet of the Gods.

[andy bessette]

...You familiar with Gustav Stickley and Greene & Greene?...

Easy boy. Never seen your work. But copy whomever you like.

Had never thought of it that way before but, since you brought it up, it is obvious to me now that I am virtually always required to copy the work of the yacht's builders, so that my new work blends in and gives the appearance that the yacht has not been worked on or modified at all.

[Gordon Stump]

I would use T-88 industrial epoxy. Gap filling and super strong

[Kent A Bathurst]

Easy boy. Never seen your work. But copy whomever you like.

I don't copy anybody.

I was simply offering references to some of the "beginning woodworkers and amateurs" who's work often included the details which are "ridiculously over-decorated, and garnished to the point of distaste".

Pretty sure yacht repair was not one of their areas of work, so I thought maybe you weren't familiar with them.

[Rege Sullivan]

I don't use dowels often so I keep them in a metal paint can with a couple 5 gram desicant packs. They not be accurate diameter but a set of number drills allows me to drill a snug fitting hole. The desicant keeps them consistent so when I find the correct number drill I write the size on the can.