How to sell a usable, frustrating tool

[Steve Demuth]

After years of successful, but frustrating use, I finally bought a SuperMax drum sander to replace my Delta 31-255X. The Delta works fine, but has some real drawbacks: it's a Delta, so no parts for it, the table height adjustment is prone to slip, putting the table out of adjustment, often to the point it can't be moved at all with out recalibration; the conveyer belt can't be made to track reliably, and I've had to replace the conveyer motor with an off-the shelf DC gear motor that works fine, but tops out at 2/3 the max speed of the original equipment.

I could junk it, and save the two motors and cast iron table for some future projects, but I'm inclinded to try to sell it.

My question is, suppose I list the thing for, say $300 - less than 20% of the cost of any comparable capable new equipment. If any of you were looking at the ad, what would you expect me to say about it, to make it a fair listing? For a woodworker who doesn't use a flat sander like this often, it's a perfectly capable machine that just needs TLC to do the job, but it'll take you twice as long on average as a good machine that holds its calibration. It's clearly worthless to anyone who wants to use their sander a lot.

Thoughts?

[Richard Coers]

After years of successful, but frustrating use, I finally bought a SuperMax drum sander to replace my Delta 31-255X. The Delta works fine, but has some real drawbacks: it's a Delta, so no parts for it, the table height adjustment is prone to slip, putting the table out of adjustment, often to the point it can't be moved at all with out recalibration; the conveyer belt can't be made to track reliably, and I've had to replace the conveyer motor with an off-the shelf DC gear motor that works fine, but tops out at 2/3 the max speed of the original equipment.

I could junk it, and save the two motors and cast iron table for some future projects, but I'm inclinded to try to sell it.

My question is, suppose I list the thing for, say $300 - less than 20% of the cost of any comparable capable new equipment. If any of you were looking at the ad, what would you expect me to say about it, to make it a fair listing? For a woodworker who doesn't use a flat sander like this often, it's a perfectly capable machine that just needs TLC to do the job, but it'll take you twice as long on average as a good machine that holds its calibration. It's clearly worthless to anyone who wants to use their sander a lot.

Thoughts?
Keep it simple. Delta sander for sale. They'll ask questions if they want. If they Google the machine they will be educated. If they don't do their homework, it's on them.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I think we have different definitions of “useable” :D

Those details and issues you outlined above would move a tool into the “un-useable” category in my shop.

Doesn’t mean you can’t sell it for some small amount of money. I agree with Richard to a degree. Put a *reasonable* price on it, advertise it clearly and let interested buyers do their own research to determine if it’s the right model for them to spend their money on. If they ask you can tell them what your experience has been with it and all the details you feel like sharing and say that “the price reflects all of the above.”

[Tom M King]

I would give it away.

[Bruce Page]

I think you should be completely upfront on ALL the issues you mentioned. The “it’s on them” doesn’t fly and is wholly unethical, IMO. Seasoned wood workers would stay away from it while a newbie might not.

[James Tibbetts]

100% agree with Bruce !

[Ron Citerone]

I also agree with Bruce.............it is what it is!

[Mel Fulks]

Delta Dawn where have all your parts gone ? Each enquirer should have a signed paper saying , “ I read the Enquirer” …and want to
buy it anyway”. Just like in the old Westerns ….trust the guys with the WHITE hats.

[Michael Burnside]

I’d be honest even if I had to give it away. My integrity is worth more than 300 bucks.

[Rick Potter]

I would advertise it for $200 and honestly say "I don't like it, and cannot keep it adjusted to my liking. Maybe you can do better. For the price why not give it a try?"

Then take the best offer I get. Someone will take up the challenge.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sell it for parts.

[Prashun Patel]

I agree with Bruce. Marketplaces function best in the long term if everyone is honest and truthful.

Doesn’t mean you have to go overboard.

Eg, don’t say “I can’t for the life of me make this thing work and it’s frustrated me so much I got a new one, and want to dump this. You’ve been warned.”

Say, “calibration mechanism requires adjustment.”

[George Yetka]

Can you get it aligned perfectly and convince the machine to be unable to slip? Weld/bolt/screw? The tracking i dont have any solution for you I have the supermax and I had it tracked in 3 seconds and its been perfect for 2 years.

[Randy Heinemann]

Sometimes you just have to let go of a tool, especially if it has been a tool you used over many years. I personally wouldn't pay much of anything, especially $300, for a tool which has that many things wrong with it; significant things that affect its usability. However, there is nothing wrong with trying to sell it but anything short of complete honesty would be unethical. Regardless of what is wrong with my tools, I am always honest when I sell them. If someone buys it knowing all that is wrong, that's their choice, but they have to know.

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with Randy H. Be honest. There's someone out there who will take it on as a challenge. If s/he can fix it, they will have gotten a machine for a low price. And if they can't, they haven't lost a whole lot.

Being retired (having time to work on it) and mechanically inclined, I might try something like that if I needed the machine.

Mike

[Steve Demuth]

I have it aligned perfectly and use it that way. But the table adjustment is 4 jack screws that are synchronized by a toothed rubber belt that is very difficult to keep in time after years of wear on the parts, and with the screws exposed to the dust of the shop. It might be fixable with a new belt and toothed sheaves, but parts are very hard to find, when they can be found at all, for these machines. I just got good at readjusting as soon as any slippage occurs.

The feed belt has only every tracked for more then a single project once, when I had one of the then film belts on it. They seem to have enough elasticity to deal manage the futziness of the feed mechanism, but they are unfortunately rather fragile and didn't hold up for me.

The truth is, I can refurbish and fettle almost any machine, and have done with many of my shop tools, but this one defeated me, leaving the only viable mode of operation as adjust before each project, and retrack the belt after every hour of use (takes 15 seconds, so an annoyance, not a problem).

At any rate, I'm no longer going to deal with it. Voted with my wallet for a new machine.

[Steve Demuth]

Yep, that's my thinking. Either a retired tinkerer who is better than me, or perhaps some part time woodworker who wants to do small projects where the machine would be useful, but doesn't have the money to spend on equipment, and is willing to deal with constant need for adjustment. As I say, the machine gives fine results - you just gotta be willilng to work at it.

I don't need the money, so I can afford to give someone else who wants the trouble a deal.

[Steve Demuth]

Thanks all. Good discussion. Fun to see in to the thinking of fellow woodworkers.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Give the wrong someone a $300 "deal" and they'll just turn right around and relist it for $700 or $800 as "like new" or my favorite "vintage".

[Bruce Page]

I had one of the original Delta 18/36's with metal toothed gears and chain. I never had any problems keeping the table in sync. It's a shame Delta started letting the bean counters overrule the design engineers. I sold it and bought a used Woodmaster for the added capacity.

[Steve Demuth]

I had one of the original Delta 18/36's with metal toothed gears and chain. I never had any problems keeping the table in sync. It's a shame Delta started letting the bean counters overrule the design engineers. I sold it and bought a used Woodmaster for the added capacity.

I think the table mechanism would work well with sprockets and chain, and with metal gears. But mine's got nylon bevel gears, and a tooth belt and sheaves. Probably worked great when it was new and pristine, but hasn't held up to hard use very well.

[Jim Becker]

I like Rick Potter's response...it's honest but still works to move it along. Collecting motors and parts doesn't appeal to me, however...not my thing. Or, donate it to the ReStore to sell and take a tax deduction if you itemize.

[Alex Zeller]

Here's my story, for what it's worth. A few years ago I bought a used Woodmaster 26" drum sander. It was an older model, before the conveyor belt. It has 2 drive drums covered with sandpaper on each side of the drum. The guy selling it said it worked ok but the drive drums on the output side would get caked with sawdust and start to slip. So he drilled holes in a piece of pipe and used compressed air to blow them off with limited success. He was honest with me. What I saw was a tool that I wanted for a great price and took a chance on it. I think I paid $350 for it (the 5hp Lesson was almost worth that much).

The first thing I did was modify the dust collection from one 4" duct to two. It helped but not enough. A little more research and I found out the drive motors were DC. By reversing the wires going to it you now feed the wood in from the rear and the sanding drum now throws the sawdust onto the infeed side of the wood so it never sees the output side drive drums. It wasn't much work and now it works great.

My point is sell it for a reasonable price, be honest, and you'll find someone who'll take a chance to see if they can figure out something you didn't. One of the issues for the previous owner was having the time. He really needed a sander that just worked.

[Brian Runau]

How would you feel if you bought something and the seller withheld info they had knowledge of? Brian

[Mike Cutler]

One person's trash, is always another persons treasure.
The one machine that I have sold, through the years, that I have truly regretted, was a Performax 16/32. What a pain in the behind machine it was.You couldn't keep the depth consistent on that machine to save your life, and I did a lot of big work with it. But I went through a period of veneering, after I sold it, where it would have been perfect. Set it and forget it, lock it in place by any means, and go.
I've bought more than a few things on Craigslist, that would have been a pass for a lot of folks, but I've saved some significant $$$$ I have two Ponsness Warren shotgun shell reloaders that are close to 50 years old, that I bought for peanuts;. A weekend of work, $20.00 investment in an end mill and a ball mill, and they now work as new.
Bottom line: You just never know.

[Steve Demuth]

The one machine that I have sold, through the years, that I have truly regretted, was a Performax 16/32. What a pain in the behind machine it was.You couldn't keep the depth consistent on that machine to save your life, and I did a lot of big work with it. But I went through a period of veneering, after I sold it, where it would have been perfect. Set it and forget it, lock it in place by any means, and go.

Ouch. Now you're scaring me, since that's basically the machine I just bought.

I have always wondered why these open-ended drum sanders don't have an easily removable locking mechanism on the open end. 95% of what people put through them doesn't need the open end, and it'd be easy enough to as you say, "lock it in place, and go."

[Mike Cutler]

Steve

No worries.
I was running 14" wide boards that were 11' long through it. It was just too much for the sander. They were also Jatoba, and 5/4 thick. I think I tested the outer limits of that 16-32. ;)
The problems that mine had, coming new out of the box, were the feed belt tension roller, and the roller on the opposite end, could not be brought to parallel within the adjustment range, so I had to take it apart, and re-drill some holes to make that happen.
The depth was problem enough back then, that someone made an aftermarket kit to physically tie the outboard of the head to the stand. so that it couldn't lift up non parallel to the platten.
As I stated though, I've bought and sold machines and tools through the years, but that's the only one I regretted selling. For smaller work, and veneers it is near perfect.
I've made carrier sleds for my large drum sander for thin work, but that Performax 16-32 would have been ideal.

[Randy Heinemann]

Ouch. Now you're scaring me, since that's basically the machine I just bought.

I have always wondered why these open-ended drum sanders don't have an easily removable locking mechanism on the open end. 95% of what people put through them doesn't need the open end, and it'd be easy enough to as you say, "lock it in place, and go."

I'm always a little puzzled by the problems people have with tools that I own and have used without the same problems. I own the Performax 16-32. For me, and for the work I do, I don't have significant problems with the machine. I've used it to flatten and smooth cutting boards. I've used it to flatten layers for segmented bowl blanks. I've used it to flatten glued up boards too wide to fit in my planer. Most recently I used it to flatteen a 5' long 15"+ wide table top. While I'd say that this last job was a little challenging, in the end it came out very close to perfect and to the eye, it is perfect.

With a drum sander, the tool you need and buy needs to fit your use. If you are a woodworker who makes furniture or other wood products for a living and use the sander heavily everyday, you need to buy a machine that is made for that sort of use. If you do woodworking on the side and make furniture for friends, yourself, and family, then a much less robust machine is needed. That's true with all tools.

I can't predict what your experience will be with the Performax, but mine is excellent. Don't expect it to be a planer. It's not. It's made to take very small amounts of wood off to do final flattening and rough sanding. For that and my use, it works well. I can't say I've experienced the same problems others seem to have experienced.

My one regret is that I did not spend the extra money for a 19-38, but only because it would would be nice to be able to take a full width pass bigger than 16" every once in a while for some projects. Otherwise, it's met my expectations (even exceeded on some projects). It did take some time to learn about using it and I hate changing sandpaper. One final note, don't use it with too fine a grit sandpaper. While I've used it with 120 grit I mostly use it with 80 and 100 grit. The 80 grit works best but the 100 grit gives a better surface but requires more care on how much you take off each pass. Any finer grit and I think you are risking problems.

[Steve Demuth]

Thanks for the advice Randy. I've been using a drum sander equivalent to the SuperMax for years, so I'm pretty well versed in their capabilities and limitations.

I seriously considered the 19-38 when I upgraded from Delta to SuperMax, but the only circumstances in which the extra 3" seemed to me to be of significant benefit for what I do, would be the very rare circumstance when I wanted to sand a shop sawn veneer wider than 15" all the way down to 1/32" (which thickness can be touch to "double up" through an open end sander). I can see that happening maybe once or twice in the remainder of my life.

[Patrick Curry]

I finally bought a SuperMax drum sander to replace my Delta 31-255X. The Delta works fine, but has some real drawbacks: it's a Delta, so no parts for it, the table height adjustment is prone to slip, putting the table out of adjustment, often to the point it can't be moved at all with out recalibration; the conveyer belt can't be made to track reliably, and I've had to replace the conveyer motor with an off-the shelf DC gear motor that works fine, but tops out at 2/3 the max speed of the original equipment.

I think you wrote the ad. A low price and honest assessment.