Buying a Sliding Compound Miter Saw - Need Counsel

[Paul Richard]

Hi All,

I’m in the market for a good quality, compound miter saw. I’ve been checking out the Festool 10”, Dewalt 779 (12”) and Bosch 12” with the robot arm. The positive reviews for all of them are off the charts. The negative reviews are all over the place, from crazy tight blade lock screws on the Dewalt, to excessive lateral play and plastic on the Bosch, to small cut capacity on the Festool. My requirements are cut consistency, accuracy and cut capacity. I’m a hobbyist getting close to retirement, and I expect to be using it quite a bit more. A buddy of mine has a Ridgid 12” and he complains about consistency and accuracy. I’ve spent some time with him trying to dial it in to no avail. It has tons of power, but when doing a larger cut it deflects - it’s obvious when you check the cut board for square or the zero clearance insert.

Do you all have some thoughts on what I should invest in? Or, are there threads where this has been covered at length?

Thanks for any feedback or direction.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Aaron Inami]

For "cut consistency, accuracy and cut capacity", I would go with the DeWalt. I think that the DeWalt miter saws have always been very good. The major complaint on the DeWalt (as well as other miter saws) is dust collection, which is just horrible on most miter saws. The Makita has decent dust collection, but suffers on accuracy and factory slide alignment as well as soft metal used for the detent presets. The Festool is the best for dust collection, but is on the smaller side and very expensive.

[Rich Engelhardt]

When I joined here back in 2006, a lot of people had the opinion that a miter saw had no place in a wood working shop, it was only good for construction.
I scoffed at that idea.

What did I know?

Slowly over the next dozen years, i swung around more and more to that point of view.

Today, every once in a while the bug bites me to get a sliding compound miter saw. I've learned to ignore it most of the time.

Seriously - why do you want a sliding compound miter saw? What do you see using it for?

[roger wiegand]

Having been blissfully unaware of the supposed failings of SCMS, I've been happily using my Hitachi for the better part of two decades now. It's the tool of choice in my shop for cutting anything to length, it seems to achieve that with consistency, accuracy and adequate capacity quite admirably. I've outfitted it with a Fence system sold by Biesemeyer long ago so boards are supported 6 ft on one side of the blade, 8 ft on the other. The adjustable fence stops make for as accurate length repeatability as I could imagine. It's something of a space hog, but wants only a fraction of the space it would take to do the same cuts on a sliding table saw. Setting up angles and bevels takes a little bit of fiddling, but, in my experience, less than setting up the same cuts on the table saw. Once set up the resulting cuts are completely reproducible, making it ideal for low scale production work. With an add-on zero clearance fence I've been cutting hundreds of small parts for organ pipes to length on my SCMS, they come out identical to my ability to measure.

I can imagine if you throw one around in the back of a pickup truck or apply gorilla strength to wrenching it to do what you want it to do you can easily produce a bad cut, so I'd question the utility of such a saw on a construction site. In the shop however it can deliver great results over a very long period of time. I suppose a RAS would be an alternative to do many of the same things, but I don't see any advantage to what feels like a more dangerous tool. If I could double the size of my shop I'd have a sliding table saw in a heartbeat, but that's just not in the cards.

Yes, dust collection is horrible.

Sorry I really can't speak to the modern offerings, my old one is still going strong.

[Robert Hayward]

I had a radial arm saw for most of my life, a one owner Rockwell Super 900. Was taking up too much space in my now garage shop so I reluctantly sold it and bought a Bosch GCM12SD thinking that would be the answer to saving space and still having about the same cross cut capacity. Due to accuracy issues the saw is an expensive cutoff saw being used only for cutting a board to length. A 7 1/4" hand held circular saw would do the same thing for a lot less money.

Back when I worked in the field I had a Dewalt 10" chop saw that was dead accurate. Do not remember the model number but it was before the sliding models on the market now. Very limited cross cut capacity is why I also sold it. In hindsight I should have kept the old Dewalt and used it along with the 7 1/4" Makita hand held.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a Bosch glide with a 12 inch Forrest chop master blade. It’s a good trim saw with a wide cross cut.
Good Luck

[Keegan Shields]

I had the Bosch 12" glide "robot arm" saw and found that the off-center handle caused it to deflect if I wasn't careful. I switched to a Kapex and the results are better. It is not an Omga and I don't expect that level of accuracy from it.

Accuracy is really a tricky topic that depends on what type of work you are doing. Different people can build the same piece of fine furniture and accept different tolerances - which is why you get such a range of answers I suspect.

I thought my joints were well fitted until I started using a shooting plane.


My strategy has always been to buy a used tool in great condition for a good price and if I don't like it, then resell it for what I paid. (both the Bosch and Kapex were used)

You might also consider a non-sliding miter saw if you are looking for a higher level of accuracy and don't need the cross cut capacity.

[Mark Gibney]

I'm in the middle of a job that needs parts cuts at consistent lengths that are too long for my table saw sled. I got a Craftsman 10" RAS off C'list and set it up for absolute 90° cuts, with a long table and shop-made fence with a tape measure.
The cut width is just over 14".

It's such a joy to use. I won't use it for anything but 90° cuts. Wish I'd done it years back.
I have a Hitachi 8" sliding miter saw that I pull out for compound angle cuts on rare occasions. So depending on what room have and what work you'll be doing there are ways to go. A miter saw / shooting plane might be the sensible solution for you Paul.

[glenn bradley]

Like some others here I was confused by the combination of statements . . . You say you are retiring but are getting a miter saw. Do you plan to do a lot of construction or room trim work in retirement? A CMS or SCMS takes up a large footprint and offers little in the realm of furniture making unless you are doing production work.

I understand there are folks who will give up their CMS or RAS when it is pulled from their cold, dead hands and that's fine. Experience has taught me that the space requirement can be way better utilized, tasks can be done better and more reliably on other tools, etc., etc.. JMHO and I know others feel the quirky machine warrants the real estate. Different folks is different :)

[Richard Coers]

I'm of the school where a sliding miter saw is for building decks and house grade trim. Not for furniture. But as with everything on the internet, there are always black and white and a little gray thrown into how accurate they are. I've owned a lot of brands over the decades and the only one I really liked was the old Hitachi 7 1/4" for furniture work. Some were horrible for shaving off a few thousandths. So remember, from 10 people you will get 15 opinions, and high accuracy for one person is a huge gap in the cut for someone else. I'm in the no gap is acceptable for furniture camp.

[Michael Burnside]

I have the Festool Kapex. Wonderful saw, easy to use, accurate and great dust collection. That said, it is my least used tool overall. Anything small'ish and I just use my crosscut sled and table saw and anything rough I just grab my Milwaukee M12 jig-saw and cut to rough length. It has a place, for sure, but don't over think this tool too much IMHO. At least not for fine woodworking.

[John TenEyck]

If you don't need portability, don't get a miter saw. A table saw can do almost anything better if not always faster. However, a TS is not such a great tool for cutting long parts, and that's where a RAS shines. A RAS has at least as much crosscut capacity of any miter saw, less deflection so better accuracy, and is an amazingly versatile tool. If you have the space, that would be my choice. If you shop well, you should be able to find a round head Dewalt or a pivot head Delta for less than a quality miter saw, and way less than a Festool. The Dewalt MBF is a wonderful trim saw, the GWI a great general purpose saw that can still run on 120V, and the GA a larger format, more powerful do anything well saw.

John

[Aaron Inami]

A really good Radial Arm Saw can be extremely expensive, but you can do some interesting things with it:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DcdevPlrH30

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZX1wu9Xo_9Y

Maybe browse used on ebay or craigslist if you want.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I used a Kapex for several years. It was accurate,relatively quiet, and very good dust collection. Sadly the motor burnt up and I did not have the time to buy a new armature and repair it. I purchased a 10” Bosch glide as a temporary fix. Two major problems showed up immediately. Dust collection at best is inadequate and on some cuts and wood sizes it is almost nonexistent. 2nd. The noise level is such that it requires protection to be worn at all times. With these two major strikes against it I’m looking forward to getting my Kapex repaired.

[Brian Gumpper]

I've been out of the tool buying game for years but why no mention of Makita? When I bought mine they were the gold standard on the woodworking forums. Don't remember the model number but see they still make SCMS.

[roger wiegand]

Rather that attributing people's apparent success with different tools and techniques to their tolerance for inaccurate results I might suggest there is also an aspect of skill and care in the use of the tool. Take the handsaw-- capable of producing the best and worst possible cuts in the hands of different operators. It is rather disparaging to presume that those of us who are happy with a SCMS are only happy because we're willing to put up with crappy results. We might just have learned how to get a good result from a tool that is certainly capable of bad results when misused.

[andrew whicker]

I recently went down a rabbit hole of RAS's and found the used beefy ones to be quite affordable (a few hundred dollars). I sincerely wish I didn't build up so many nice cabs around a miter saw. Now I have to find more wall space for another long run for my newly acquisitioned RAS. I have space though. If you are space limited, go with the RAS over the sliding miter so that you don't end up too invested with something that doesn't work as well.

I have a Bosch glide / robot arm. It is Heavy. It is a pain to take to job sites. I will be getting a small Hitachi slider soon enough to take to job sites. I'm tired of hauling around a boat anchor. The Bosch miter saw stand is excellent, however.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I have a DeWalt DWS780 which is pretty accurate and has a nice pop up base for remote work, but gets banged around and needs fence adjusting frequently. I also have a stationary Hitachi CF10 which I have rebuilt twice because the saw is deadly accurate and a joy to use. That said, about 60% of my crosscut work is done on the radial arm saw. I have a very old 1950s 12" DeWalt-Rockwell radial arm saw that I love as well. If I had to pick one, I would pick a miter saw that could be tethered with a long measuring stop-fence, could be mounted in a recessed cabinet top with some slop on the mounting holes so one could adjust the alignment with the stop fence, and that had a nice long spindle that could accommodate a dado, and could miter and bevel. None of the three fill that bill, so that's why I have three.

I haven't shopped new saws recently but those four attributes (miter, bevel, dado and 12") would be the winning combination.

[Michael Rutman]

Going to disagree with anyone that says don't get a Kapax, but I remind everyone I'm a hobbyist and far far far from a professional. I had a Ridgid and never used it, once I got my Kapax it became my go to tool over the Sawstop. Any cross cut less than 12" is going on the Kapax every time. I'm not going to bring out my sled when the Kapax is just ready to use. Based on my experience I'm going to hypothesize a lot of negativity towards miter saws comes from people's experience with anything below top of the line. Other miter saws may cut as well as the Kapax, but Festool put a ton into making setup a breeze. I've never seen anything like it.

For reproducibility there is no way I'm going to get more accurate than the Kapax dual lasers. If I need to set up to match a prior cut I can set the stops and not feel a difference between the reference board and my new cut. I cannot do that on the Sawstop, there will be just enough that I can feel it with my finger. The Kapax can also cut crown molding at over 4 1/2", which my table saw can't do. I can score delicate wood with my Kapax and then immediately cut it without adjusting the blade. I can get a scoring blade for my table saw, or just use the Kapax.

Tablesaws are great and if you can only get one tool go for the tablesaw always. However, my personal experience is that anything a table saw can do there is another tool that does it much much better. It's just that I don't have every possible tool that the tablesaw does.

[lou Brava]

Both Dewalt & Makita saws will get you accuracy provided you have the right blade it's sharp & saw is bolted down to vary stable bench/table.
I use mine for repetitive cuts when cutting hundreds of parts for lets say a stair railing or a miter/cross cut on a long boards. I've cut miters on long 8" wide 5/4 Oak that came out near perfect. All this could be done on a RAS & I used to have one but moved switched to using a portable compound saw and don't miss the RAS at all. On the plus side is it's ability to be put away when not needed, negative is getting out setting it up when needed.
It all boils down to what your specific needs are just don't think a good quality sliding compound saw can't be accurate.

[Aaron Inami]

I will repeat my earlier statement about Makita:

"The Makita has decent dust collection, but suffers on accuracy and factory slide alignment as well as soft metal used for the detent presets."

If you bought a Makita and got a "perfectly aligned" unit, then great. I know that many customers received an out-of-alignment saw where the slider tubes are mis-aligned. This causes a curved cut on long sliding operations. It's a real pain and hassle to try to re-align this element. The soft metal on the detent presets can impact your accuracy if you use those common angle detents a lot. The soft aluminum wears and the detents become loose.

[Brian Gumpper]

It has tons of power, but when doing a larger cut it deflects - it’s obvious when you check the cut board for square or the zero clearance insert.

Most miter saw blades you get at the big box stores are thin kerf and the larger the diameter the more chance of deflection. The Ridge Carbide I sell the most of is a full kerf blade and people like it because they are more rigid which will give less or no deflection.

I'm sure your friends saw has a 1" arbor or I would say try a full kerf table saw blade you have lying around as a test but a 10" table saw blade will be 5/8" arbor

[Dave Sabo]

Late to the party , but I think you should take a serious look at the Milwaukee 10” & 12” saws. They are not great as far as jobsite portability is concerned, but they are very accurate and have good dust collection too - if that’s your thing.

The new(ish) Makita is a really good saw if you get an aligned one from the factory or care to take the time to do it yourself. But who want to do that ? And it ain’t as easy as aligning a fence or an angle stop.

Kapex is arguably the best of the lot, especially the newer ones if you can stomach the price, slim blade availability, and don’t mind the vertical handle. The two above are almost as good at 50-75% le$$. Pick your poison.

[Tom M King]

My old Dewalt 708 cuts accurately just like it always has. I have never hung it up in a cut because I don't do push cuts. Pull cuts make good dust collection possible. Dust collection is actually really good, and it's been used in finished houses with no dust outside the collection box.

I don't recommend that for anyone else with less than several decades of RAS use though. A friend did hang it up once, and put a lot of sawdust in the air by doing a push cut. He is not allowed to use it any more. It made me mad that it got hung up in a cut. That's why they don't stay calibrated. Fortunately, that one time didn't seem to do any damage.

I don't like lasers because the lines are too wide.

This DC box was made as a prototype maybe two decades ago. It worked so good that I never had any reason to change it, and it's still used today. 1/2" wide slot all along the back into a plenum box below to 6" duct. 3hp four bagger DC does better than wishful thinking. Anything less than 3hp is wishful thinking.

[Paul Richard]

All good questions and feedback folks - thank you. Some clarifications…. It’ll mostly be used for trim work (built in shelving/cabinets, etc), crown/base/picture-frame molding, then for cross cutting parts to be used in furniture and cabinet making. I plan to get one of those big dust hoods, so I’m ok with it being dusty, and space, while it is not unlimited, should not be a problem either. It’s for a basement shop where I have plenty of room. Lastly, I don’t plan to move it all that often and very rarely if ever brought to a job site via truck.

[Michael Burnside]

... Pull cuts make good dust collection possible ...

Unless I'm misreading this, and if so apologies, but you should never pull a sliding miter or chop saw.

[Tom M King]

You didn’t read it wrong. Sounds like you also didn’t read my whole post. If one cannot do a pull cut under complete control without having to think about it, it shouldn’t be done.

To tell me that it should never be done is simply an insult. How many million dollars worth of work have you produced?

[Michael Burnside]

I read it, just wanted to clarify if I missed something. Sounds like I didn't. Agree to disagree, no insults intended.

[Richard Coers]

All good questions and feedback folks - thank you. Some clarifications…. It’ll mostly be used for trim work (built in shelving/cabinets, etc), crown/base/picture-frame molding, then for cross cutting parts to be used in furniture and cabinet making. I plan to get one of those big dust hoods, so I’m ok with it being dusty, and space, while it is not unlimited, should not be a problem either. It’s for a basement shop where I have plenty of room. Lastly, I don’t plan to move it all that often and very rarely if ever brought to a job site via truck.
I hope you read my previous post, because all these comments wouldn't narrow the decision one bit for me. It's like reading Amazon reviews. You'd never buy anything if you read all the reviews there either.

[Holmes Anderson]

If you plan to permanently locate the saw on a cabinet along a wall of your shop, then the cabinet depth required may limit your saw choices. Non-sliders and the robot arm Bosch are not a problem because they can be pushed back against the wall (or back of your DC housing) but the saws with dual bar sliding mechanisms require significant space behind the saw for the sliding bars. You may be better off with a non-slider depending on the cut capacity required for the jobs you plan to do. Non-sliders are less expensive and generally more accurate and durable. If you are not going to put the saw against a wall, then another possibility to consider are the old Hitachi's that most of the finish carpentry guys used before Metabo took over. They aren't easy to find in good condition though.

[Tom M King]

I'll try to make some test cuts in the next few days and we'll see how accurate these saws are after a couple of decades of use. I doubt I've made a million cuts with it, but some good number of thousands. I'll post pictures of the results.

Here's a picture of a setup a good while back. It and a radial arm saw were setup in a 40 foot long hallway in an old house. Just by luck the portable base I bought for the miter saw ended up being exactly the same height as my made in 1974 radial arm saw base that I made the day I took the saw out of the box then.

I was thinking the board was a 2x12, but not sure looking at the picture. It's from my stash of treated lumber that is kept drying for years waiting for something to be made from it. It was cut with a pull cut, because those are the only cuts I made with it. I'm thinking this was from 2009. Most of that air dried treated lumber has a lot of stress in it, so I may need to back out of the cut several times and start over as the cut is made.

[Walter Plummer]

I have had my Makita 10" slider since 1993? It has been a great saw. I think maybe twice in the thirty years I have gone over it and tweaked the settings. Get a blade made for a slider and tighten the knob if you are going for an accurate cut. If I'm just rough cutting I just let it fall in the detent. Mine now lives on a cart with total lock casters. To make a cut I have to pull it from the wall and then put it back when done. The sliders and the Dewalt 735 push the limits of "portable".

[Dave Sabo]

I read it, just wanted to clarify if I missed something. Sounds like I didn't. Agree to disagree, no insults intended.

hmmmmmm.

I think I know where you’re coming from…………but riddle me this:

How you gonna make a push cut with a radial arm saw on a productive basis ? It’s basically a sliding compound mitersaw , just without the chop function. Been in use for a hundred + yrs. with fine, safe results.

Don’t confuse biased knowledge with unvarnished and true experience.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the Festool Kapex and have been satisfied with it. I had two or three miter saws before the Kapex and the Kapex is better than what I had.

Mike

[Warren Lake]

I worked for a while for an ex navy carpenter guy, he always and only pushed the radial arm saw in to the material. It likely came from him cutting aluminum extrusion and deciding that was a better way. No point to try and change him. He was a different trade and likely a good carpenter and not as skilled cabinetmaker.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Lastly, I don’t plan to move it all that often and very rarely if ever brought to a job site via truck.
That's good if you are considering getting the Bosch glide miter saw (with one with the robotic arm), as it is a beast. Big (bulky) and heavy. I bought the Bosch stand for mine. IIRC, the pair weighs nearly 200 pounds. I have not had any defelection issues with the stock Bosch blade. But I will note that I have issues with the tilt not being at zero after I fold and unfold the stand. There is a bit of play in the stop for the tilt. If you equip the saw with the Bosch laser, it marks to the left of the blade (kerf is always to the right of the line) which works out well as the handle is predominately right handed which means you hold the work piece (not the scrap piece) with your left. It also means you always feed from left to right, if you go the other way the piece ends up a kerf width too short.

I do love having a miter saw. I can make scrap at an amazing speeds. Yes the Bosch is heavy and a little quirky, but not having or dealing with the tubes is awesome.

[Brian Runau]

I have a chop saw station set up based on Norm's, only use it to breakdown longer pieces for milling. All my finish cuts are done on the table saw. Brian

[Phillip Mitchell]

For trim work I would look for an older Hitachi Koki 10” slider - the C10FS(H) - in as nice condition as you can find. I have used many sliding miter saws and that’s the best one I know of for accuracy. The Kapex *may* be on par with it as far as potential for accuracy, but is literally 6-8x the price of a nice used Hitachi. The dust collection will not be comparable to the Kapex though without some modifications or building a dust hood type box around it with adequate DC suction.

I have an original Hitachi Koki 8 1/2” sliding miter saw in my shop and is still slides and cuts true, though the blade diameter limits how thick I can cut.

I also have an older Dewalt 780 that I have tuned up to cut true and square and has a flat base/fence. That is not always the case with Dewalt (and others.) There is a bit of slop in the rails when you are making cuts approaching the wider end of its capacity. I have used it for finish carpentry with a nice blade and been generally pleased, but it’s bulky/heavy and a pain to move around.

Festool has been promoting their new ~8” (?) battery powered Kapex version lately and is giving some away to a handful of folks for testing / review. I wouldn’t mind trying one out in that manner just see how it holds up, but would never spend that kind of money on a battery powered job site saw.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

But I will note that I have issues with the tilt not being at zero after I fold and unfold the stand.

I have the same problem. The bevel lock is tight but I still need to release and reset every time is set up the saw.

[Greg Parrish]

I’ve had a few miter saws over the years and will never be without one again. Right now I have a Kapex at my home shop and a Dewalt non-sliding at our farm. I’ve tried to go without them in the past when struggling with space issues. In fact, this forum advised me in the past to get rid of the miter saw and some other items to make space in my garage shop. Unfortunately, I did and regretted it. LOL. :)

For the way I work my miter saw is used for everything from cutting long material down to approximate size, repeated cuts using stop blocks, etc. Where I don’t rely on it most times is when it comes to critical joinery cuts. In those cases, I’ll resort to the table saw or hand tools. But, I hate breaking down material with hand saws or table saws and that’s where the miter saw shines. And, while I know they work for some, I don’t want a RAS, so the sliding miter saw was the best solution for me.

[Wes Grass]

I've got an older Dewalt 12" SCMS, the vertical stacked rail version. 708? Back at my house in CA. Other than replacing the blade with a 'good' one several years ago, I did nothing but a few tweaks to the stops. My BIL, union carpenter and quite a craftsman, knowing I'm a machinist/toolmaker, asked me what I'd done to it ... best miter saw he'd ever used.

I think using one is like shooting a pistol. You can't muscle it where you want it and force the shot. It won't EVER go where you thought it would. You have to let the guides on the saw do the aligning and guiding, and your hand does nothing but feed the blade where the saw takes it.

A dull blade combats that effort, making you put more force into the cut which makes it harder to let the saw do its thing. Kinda like resawing with a dull blade on a bandsaw ... the extra force is going to warp the blade out of line.

I have a plain Jane 10" Dewalt CMS here. Don't think I've made any adjustments on it, but it does a great job on the little bit of 'finish' work I've done with it. Don't remember touching it at all ...

Never used a RAS, but my guess is the shear mass of the 'head' helps a lot with controlling a 'climb cut'.

[Jay Rasmussen]

Paul, I bought a Festool Kapex yesterday, other than normal cutoff duties my main use will be cutting segments for turning projects - no sanding a must. No problem on my table saw but not very comfortable when doing a lot of them. The first 5 rings I cut are excellent. Dead on. I think I will be happy. Very smooth operation. The handle/switch is funky, the dust collection is outstanding, the price is outrageous. Buy once - cry once.
I replaced my 25-year-old Makita.
Good luck in your selection.