Joinery for older shaky hands

[Vince Re]

I've developed a bit of a tremor in both hands as I age...it's not terrible, but it makes precision work very frustrating. When I was younger, I enjoyed cutting M&T joints, dovetails and so forth by hand - now, I just get frustrated and destroy a lot of wood.

Little by little, I've switched over to power tools for this sort of thing. With a jig, a router table and so on, I can do most of the simple joinery I want to do. I've tried biscuits and a cheap dual-spindle doweling joiner, but I haven't been happy with either one - not sure if it's the tool or me, but even with a lot of time adjusting the tools, I rarely get strong "spot-on" joints this way.

That has me looking for a better mechanical solution, and a few folks suggested the Festool Domino. Everything I read about it seems positive, except the price seems crazy to me - the small 500 is about $1200, and the larger 700 model is close to $1700 last I looked. I've also considered a better dual-spindle joiner - something like the Mafel, but it's also crazy expensive.

I like the look of fancy through tenons, so I've also looked at a few power mortisers, but it's another big and expensive thing to add to my small shop that's hard to justify.

Recently, I had the idea that a completely different alternative would be to invest in a CNC for the joinery I want to do. It's probably more expensive than the mortiser or a Domino, but seems to me that it would open the door to virtually any type of fancy joinery I might want to do, at the cost of being more time consuming to set up and run. Still, seems to me that no matter how bad my tremors get, so long as I can still use a computer, I can pretty much cut anything I can imagine with an accuracy down to about .001".

What do you guys think?

[Cameron Wood]

I bit the bullet a few years ago and bought a Domino. It's been very useful- tables, gates, benches, and quite fast relative to other joinery.

I sometimes make tenons from the same wood as the project, especially for outdoor. The machine is somewhat high strung, and only one crash landing on the floor from being scrap, so I'm very careful and unplug the power cord from the machine often so I don't trip on it.

Also have a bench top mortiser, which I like, but it doesn't do everything, and is heavy-not really portable. I think many of these are bought and not used. The mortises are also on the rough side, especially through mortises where the chisel exits the stock, so hand work is still needed.

[John TenEyck]

I have a CNC and rarely use it for furniture joinery for one-off projects. I do use it to make finger joint and dovetail drawers, using a vertical fence installed through the table. No matter what you want to do you need to create a drawing and then the toolpaths. Even something simple might take 30 minutes to do that. Now multiply that by a couple of dozen joints in a project, for example, and you have a lot of time invested before you've cut anything. Change anything along the way and you have to adjust the drawings and toolpaths accordingly. If you want to make multiples of a project the CNC is a very useful tool, for one-offs, not so much, unless it's something very difficult to do by hand methods. I'm not suggesting you can't use a CNC to do one-off projects, only that it's not time efficient and there are easier ways. Read on.

If you are looking for a solution for M&T joints, especially loose tenon joints, you might consider building one of my Horizontal Router Mortisers. You can make one for maybe $100 plus the cost of a mid sized fixed base router. It's fast and easy to use, very precise, very safe, and tremors will have no impact on the results. If you'd rather not build one, I'm happy to sell you one ready to go for well less than half the price of the smaller Domino.

Anyway, have a look: https://sites.google.com/view/jteneyck-woodworker/current-projects/horizontal-router-mortiser?authuser=1

And the one I sell:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_D-JeQ598XH1sQX42x9dZVs4CEymPNiFq7_Zy5GP7si8EMgKLTcPT c-TujVygEPIkbBw1C76TVAmdVRRv-txJFQLfmMQ5zgch_J6oAPpfLPBS4nn-B2IZ7y1a_kHmNUgcWxtZPTGi_4cbq0rwCksJ14A=w1190-h893-s-no?authuser=0

Whatever direction you go, I hope you continue to enjoy woodworking for a good long time.

John

[Keegan Shields]

Vince,

You might also consider a Pantorouter. Kind of a mid point between the traditional mortiser/tenon and going full CNC.

The benefit is you can cut both the mortise and tenon on the same machine. Lots of joint options.

[Will Mullendore]

The DowelMax jig is an extremely nice piece of kit for the price. After I got mine, I decided I had no use for a domino. It’s quick to set up and very accurate.

Highly recommended.

[Jim Becker]

I think that of all the tools in the Festool range, the Domino is the one tool that even folks who "hate" the brand can benefit from. It just works and is very precise. Yes, it's not inexpensive, but it's a well built machine and a game changer for many folks, both for more efficient work and to permit great precision when it can be difficult to achieve otherwise. Your hand challenges kinda fit into that category, too, Vince.

I own the DF700 as most of my use has been for heavier joints. I typically use 10, 12 and 14 mm tenon sizes and have also used the 14mm connectors. You can be "darn precise" with this tool, too. While I own the Seneca adapter to be able to cut the small size tenons that the DF500 does, I honestly have not felt the need "to date". It's nice having the option, however. If I found myself using the smaller sizes with any kind of frequency, I'd buck up and buy the smaller machine, too, for lower weight and more "fit for purpose" comfort. I buy tenon stock that I use the most in the 750mm sticks for lower cost and just cut to the desired length on the bandsaw.

Do note you must use an extractor with the Domino tools. They put out a lot of "stuff" and it needs to be pulled out of the mortise and removed from the machine.

[John TenEyck]

Vince,

You might also consider a Pantorouter. Kind of a mid point between the traditional mortiser/tenon and going full CNC.

The benefit is you can cut both the mortise and tenon on the same machine. Lots of joint options.

As you can with my horizontal router mortiser.

John

[Vince Re]

Thanks for all the replies so far...though I'm not sure I'm any closer to a solution.

I appreciate the comments on using what amounts to a homemade jig to create a horizontal slot mortiser and floating tenons. I think the part I was missing was the idea of cutting slots in both pieces and then using floating tenons to join them together. Instead, I was picturing cutting the mortises with a router and the tenons on the table saw...that's pretty much what I do now, and rounding the corners of the tenon by hand with a chisel is a bit hit-or-miss for me these days. A little research turned up a few cool mortising jig designs in addition to the ones mentioned in here. I may try building one of these before going any further - that seems like a workable solution, and I'm sure I even have a spare router laying around I could use for it.

For doweling, I have a few different jigs as well as a bargain dual spindle joiner. I won't mention the brand, but the joiner is frustrating because it has enough slop in the design that it's almost always off a few thirty-seconds of an inch in every dimension, especially in harder woods. I don't have the DowelMax jig that was mentioned, but I do have the JessEm...it's probably about my best option today, though I'm not sure dowels are the strongest solution for some of the projects I do...lately, I've been building custom hardwood doors, for instance, and a row of dowels seems like a poor substitute for a beefy M&T joint.

The one thing that's still a bit of a mystery to me is the CNC approach - I don't have a good feel for what the CNC workflow would be. I have a background in software and programming, so I'm not afraid of the tech, I just wonder if I'm trading the joy of working with wood for working with a computer...it might look nice, but doesn't seem particularly gratifying to watch some computer program carve out the designs you can't do by hand anymore. These days, I might sell a piece or two, but I do it because I enjoy it, not to earn a living...last thing I want to do is add something that feels like drudgery - even if the results are good, that'll still feel frustrating.

Someone suggested the Shaper Origin thing as sort of a halfway CNC. It seems like an interesting approach, but again very expensive and it still seems to take a certain amount of dexterity to get good results. I'd consider trying one, but it looks like the nearest dealer is about 200 miles away from me. It would be wonderful if some of these companies offered rental programs where we could try out something new without necessarily committing thousands of dollars to it.

And of course, I haven't ruled out the Domino...other than the price, I can't really find anyone that says anything bad about them, so perhaps I'll just suck it up and make the investment.

Thanks again for everyone that offered advice!

[Keegan Shields]

No not the Shaper Origin... the Pantorouter. Check it out - no software required.

https://www.pantorouter.com/

[Terry Therneau]

From all I've read, the Jessem dowling jig and the DowelMax are a pretty evenly matched. I used a DowelMax for several years, now passed on to my son; I now have a Festool domino. I'm not sure how the domino would do with tremor; but if you can put a tri-square on a mark accurately and hold it down on that spot you should be okay.

[Michael Burnside]

I have the Jessem Dowling Jig and it is great. I also have the Festool Domino which, love or hate, is a phenomenal tool that I use far and away the most. Hate on the price all you want, but it works perfectly every time, it is built very well, comes with an outstanding warranty and does the job quickly and accurately. IMHO the price is on par with performance and quality.

Those are the extremes of the budget for tools I've used extensively to make fine furniture and would recommend. John's horizontal router looks cool as well, but I've not use anything like that so I'll let others chime in with more experience.

[andy bessette]

Have you given up caffeine entirely?

[Will Mullendore]

Have you given up caffeine entirely?

We’re trying to come up with realistic options here.

[Wes Grass]

we’re trying to come up with realistic options here.

lol!!!!!!!!!

[Will Mullendore]

For doweling, I have a few different jigs as well as a bargain dual spindle joiner. I won't mention the brand, but the joiner is frustrating because it has enough slop in the design that it's almost always off a few thirty-seconds of an inch in every dimension, especially in harder woods. I don't have the DowelMax jig that was mentioned, but I do have the JessEm...it's probably about my best option today, though I'm not sure dowels are the strongest solution for some of the projects I do...lately, I've been building custom hardwood doors, for instance, and a row of dowels seems like a poor substitute for a beefy M&T joint.

And of course, I haven't ruled out the Domino...other than the price, I can't really find anyone that says anything bad about them, so perhaps I'll just suck it up and make the investment.

Thanks again for everyone that offered advice!

What is a dowel if not a floating tenon? It’s mechanically no different than a Domino. I’m sure the Domino is a great tool, but there’s very little a Domino can do that a good dowel joint can’t.

As far as the strength goes, some tests are showing a dowel/floating tenon as stronger than an equivalent mortise/tenon joint. https://canadianwoodworking.com/techniques_and_tips/how-strong-is-a-dowel-joint/

[Michelle Rich]

If you have the Jessem, have you gone to their site recently.?.they have a cool new workstation and a way to make loose tenons on that station, plus it will hold the doweling jig too. Kinda nifty.

[John TenEyck]

What is a dowel if not a floating tenon? It’s mechanically no different than a Domino. I’m sure the Domino is a great tool, but there’s very little a Domino can do that a good dowel joint can’t.

As far as the strength goes, some tests are showing a dowel/floating tenon as stronger than an equivalent mortise/tenon joint. https://canadianwoodworking.com/techniques_and_tips/how-strong-is-a-dowel-joint/

A dowel is a loose tenon of no width. Face grain to face grain gluing area is what makes joints strong and that's where true tenons of any type have an advantage. I'm well aware of the test results by Dowel Max, et al, that show superior strength for their doweled joints, but they needed to use many dowels to do it. And that's the real issue, especially for someone with hands that don't work as well as most people. Having to hold a drill to drill all those holes is not going to be easy. And then if you have to move the fixture to put more joints along the length or width of the part, you have more opportunity for errors in alignment to creep in. Loose tenons by their very nature are tolerant of slight mismatches in alignment, and very tolerant in the width direction. And that's a huge advantage for the Domino, or any loose tenon option, over dowels. My HRM eliminates the need to hold something like the Domino since the workpiece is clamped to the bed of the machine, which makes it even easier for someone with tremors to easily use.

John

[Jim Becker]

What is a dowel if not a floating tenon? It’s mechanically no different than a Domino. I’m sure the Domino is a great tool, but there’s very little a Domino can do that a good dowel joint can’t.

As far as the strength goes, some tests are showing a dowel/floating tenon as stronger than an equivalent mortise/tenon joint. https://canadianwoodworking.com/techniques_and_tips/how-strong-is-a-dowel-joint/

While simple dowels and the Dominos might serve a similar purpose, the "beef" of the Domino in size and length can be substantially more supportive and provides a much larger glue area. And as John mentions, the width of the Domino more represents a typical loose tenon and that has advantages, too, over dowels, even when they are larger dowels. Please note I am not saying that dowels are bad...they are not. One should choose the method that best supports the structural needs of the joinery in question.

[Vince Re]

Have you given up caffeine entirely?

Thanks for the chuckle Andy!

In my younger days, I was quite the coffee addict - for a while, I even grew and harvested my own coffee beans, and it was rare not to see me without a coffee mug in my hands during business hours. When I first noticed I was getting shaky, I took the plunge and went zero-caffeine for a full year with it didn't make any difference at all. Nowadays, I have a cup or so of caffeinated coffee daily - my doc tells me it's healthy - and my shaky hands just seem to be progressively getting worse a little at a time. It seems to be hereditary as my mom had a similar issue when she was alive, and so does my older sister.

I try to get a lot of dexterity exercise in my routine and that probably slows down the progression, but it's still really frustrating. My oldest son noticed a few Thanksgivings ago when I struggled to carve the family turkey. This past weekend, I was replacing a garage door opener and I couldn't hold my hand steady enough to drive a bolt into the chassis while I held the unit with my other hand...what should have been a five-minute task turned into a half hour of trying to figure out how to prop the damn thing in place so I could use my other hand to keep the screwdriver steady enough to get the bolt installed.

I'm not really that old (mid-60s), and I guess I feel blessed that this is the only thing wrong with me. I learn to adapt, I guess - so far, I haven't gotten so frustrated that I just give up. My doc tells me there are drugs that can help, but they apparently have lots of side effects and you can't take them forever. Maybe ten years from now I'll feel differently.

[James Pallas]

Hi Vince. Don’t know whether this will help. I’ve had essential tremors since late teens, 76 now. Just a few years ago my wife bought me a flatware set for this problem. I was very skeptical to say the least. To my surprise it helped a lot. I was able to keep soup in a spoon. The only difference is it is heavy. I transferred this to my woodworking by wearing a 1 pound wrist weight, the kind for exercising. Not a complete cure but much better. Inexpensive to boot. Give it a try.
Jim

[andy bessette]

...I have a cup or so of caffeinated coffee daily - my doc tells me it's healthy...

And thank you for such preposterous humor. :)

[Greg Quenneville]

How I became a woodworker:

My father had what was called essential tremor in both hands that got progressively worse as he aged. He was depression-era farm boy used to doing everything by hand.

Back in the 1970’s there weren’t many hobbyist alternatives to hand cut joints. But he had sons, and he showed us how to do things and took up a management role in his own shop. The hand shake used to really frustrate him.

The domino makes me a better woodworker now, and with it I have cut so many slots that one cutter now looks like its chromed. I have made 25 doors and 30+ shutters with mine and all are still tight and solid.

[Vince Re]

Hi Vince. Don’t know whether this will help. I’ve had essential tremors since late teens, 76 now. Just a few years ago my wife bought me a flatware set for this problem. I was very skeptical to say the least. To my surprise it helped a lot. I was able to keep soup in a spoon. The only difference is it is heavy. I transferred this to my woodworking by wearing a 1 pound wrist weight, the kind for exercising. Not a complete cure but much better. Inexpensive to boot. Give it a try.
Jim
Thank you for that - I will definitely give it a try!

[Jim Becker]

Hi Vince. Don’t know whether this will help. I’ve had essential tremors since late teens, 76 now. Just a few years ago my wife bought me a flatware set for this problem. I was very skeptical to say the least. To my surprise it helped a lot. I was able to keep soup in a spoon. The only difference is it is heavy. I transferred this to my woodworking by wearing a 1 pound wrist weight, the kind for exercising. Not a complete cure but much better. Inexpensive to boot. Give it a try.
Jim
That's really interesting, James! My daughter's SO has a bit of a hand tremor...I may ask him to try the weight thing when he's doing "detail work" as I noticed the small shake got in the way of him using my small drill/driver when we were doing some small customizations of their teardrop travel trailer. (He's only 25 yo, too)

[Michael Burnside]

What is a dowel if not a floating tenon? It’s mechanically no different than a Domino. I’m sure the Domino is a great tool, but there’s very little a Domino can do that a good dowel joint can’t.

As far as the strength goes, some tests are showing a dowel/floating tenon as stronger than an equivalent mortise/tenon joint. https://canadianwoodworking.com/techniques_and_tips/how-strong-is-a-dowel-joint/

Dowels are great for a lot of things. I use them often in various applications. But "no different than a Domino" is, in my opinion, respectfully overstated. The width and length options of the Domino and the absurdly simple use/speed of the tool is what sets it apart. I can domino a complex cabinet in a very short time with perfect alignment much faster than I can with my Jessem doweling jig. In particular the wide 8m or 10mm make for excellent long-grain to long-grain glue surfaces that substantially strengthen the joint. For waterfall miters they are a godsend. True artisans do this all by hand but for us mortals the Domino gets us all the way there without the bragging rights.

[Thomas L Carpenter]

I have had essential tremor for at least 30 years making woodworking an exciting challenge. I was first diagnosed by a family doctor. He asked me if a glass of wine made it go away and when I answered yes he said essential tremor. I have since had the diagnoses confirmed by a neurologist. The tremor eventually forced me out of the lab( I am an analytical chemist) but not out of the shop. Essential tremor is quite well known these days and a neurologist can suggest ways to minimize the shaking. They include medications, surgery and in some cases botox.

[Michael Rutman]

Having a tremor also, I sympathize with you. If you go the domino route watch the Sedge videos on the proper way to use it or you will wonder why everyone but you loves it. It's very easy to get inaccurate placement. I use it but it isn't my go to tool. Sadly, the Kreig pocket hole is right now my go to tool.

I bought the Incra router table with all the bells and whistles, and that's supposed to be insanely great for dovetails, haven't tried yet. Been busy on other projects. Maybe tonight I'll try it.

Bought the Porter Cable dovetail jig, don't bother. It requires careful lining up in two places, which I can't get quite 100%.

[andy bessette]

... Sadly, the Kreig pocket hole is right now my go to tool...

Noooooooo!

[Bill Dufour]

I would look into using metal working tools. Much better accuracy and repeatability. hands stay well away from the cutting action. The president of Grizzly uses a vertical mill for some of his hobby work.
His special wood mill is just a bridgeport style vertical mill with a slightly higher then standard rpm spindle. A worn out bridgeport will be more accurate then most new wood working machines
Bill D.
https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-wood-mill-wood-metalworking-w-power-feed/g9977

[Gordon Stump]

Making accurate mortises has always been a challenge for me. I have a CNC router for carving my logos and personalization of my products. So I decided to try carving mortises on the cnc for some walnut benches. I found the process rewarding and not at all un-woodworkingesque. Cutting accurate tenons on the table saw is fun and does not expose my lack of hand tooling talent.504263504264

Best mortises ever!

[Christian Hawkshaw]

Making accurate mortises has always been a challenge for me. I have a CNC router for carving my logos and personalization of my products. So I decided to try carving mortises on the cnc for some walnut benches. I found the process rewarding and not at all un-woodworkingesque. Cutting accurate tenons on the table saw is fun and does not expose my lack of hand tooling talent.504263504264

Best mortises ever!

Were you able to get square corners as second pic shows or slightly rounded corners? I see you used a 1/8 bit. Is that diameter or radius? I am not familiar with the capabilities of CNC, thus the questions.

[Michael Rutman]

Noooooooo!

I know, right! However, I'm making cabinets for my workshop right now and the Kreig pocket hole jig is perfect because the pieces I use them on are not visible. Clamped down well before screwing means that nothing shifts. It actually works really well when you have a tremor. Even the domino will sometimes misalign on me if my hand shakes at the wrong time. Imagine the frustration of a hand shake in the middle of the plunge tilting the cutter 2mm.

When you have a tremor, anything that clamps beats anything that doesn't, no matter how high quality the tool is. The domino doesn't clamp down. I still use it, don't get me wrong, and if I could clamp it down it would be my go to tool. Then again, the domino is awesome because of how fast it is, which it wouldn't be if I clamped it down for each cut.

Side topic, if clamping down before doing anything, know that clamping pieces together will shift when you tighten them, especially if you have a tremor. Practice clamping technique a lot.

[Michael Burnside]

I know, right! However, I'm making cabinets for my workshop right now and the Kreig pocket hole jig is perfect because the pieces I use them on are not visible. Clamped down well before screwing means that nothing shifts. It actually works really well when you have a tremor. Even the domino will sometimes misalign on me if my hand shakes at the wrong time. Imagine the frustration of a hand shake in the middle of the plunge tilting the cutter 2mm.

When you have a tremor, anything that clamps beats anything that doesn't, no matter how high quality the tool is. The domino doesn't clamp down. I still use it, don't get me wrong, and if I could clamp it down it would be my go to tool. Then again, the domino is awesome because of how fast it is, which it wouldn't be if I clamped it down for each cut.

Side topic, if clamping down before doing anything, know that clamping pieces together will shift when you tighten them, especially if you have a tremor. Practice clamping technique a lot.

Nothing wrong with pocket holes. The reason I didn't mention it was it didn't sound like the OP was looking for a blind tenon. Whenever I build boxes/cabinets and have a way to hide the holes I pull out my Castle USA pocket-hole router and to go town. I love that thing.

[Gordon Stump]

Were you able to get square corners as second pic shows or slightly rounded corners? I see you used a 1/8 bit. Is that diameter or radius? I am not familiar with the capabilities of CNC, thus the questions.

Slightly round. Hit with file to round the corners. 1/16" radus

[Jim Dwight]

I also have and like my DF700 domino. It was expensive but if you get just the machine without all the little tenons it is less so. I have not purchased a tenon yet but I got my machine used and the former owner included some 12mm tenons which worked well. But so do my home made tenons. I have the Seneca adapter and have made 5mm and 6mm mortises with my DF700. Works great. Especially for a small shop, the domino is a bit of a game changer. I used to have a hollow chisel mortiser, a benchtop model, and it was a lot harder to use and slower and made sloppier looking mortises. I have also used a plunge router with a spiral upcut carbide bit and it made mortises just as nice as the domino does it just takes significantly longer to use. If you are patient and want to save some money that is the method I recommend. I've also drilled out most of the waste and chopped them but that is also slow and not nearly as precise as a router or domino machine.

Another way to save money with a domino is to use "off brand" bits. I buy Amana or CMT bits and they work fine. About half the price as Festool. I am not saying they are equivalent, just that they work without issue. I think domino joints get a bad rap for strength sometimes from people that only use the relatively narrow pre-made tenons. I make tenons of the width called for in the project. If it needs to be wider, I just plunge the domino as many times as I need to. I even use it to do inletting for gun stocks. It does not take up much space and does really nice work. Now if they would stop the silly mm dimensions on it....

[Tom Bender]

Clamping can enable many tasks. Blue tape makes a great clamp.

[Mike King]

I have a domino. I also have a horizontal slot mortiser and a Multirouter. The domino can do one thing: cut mortises for loose tenon joints. It can't cut a full or half blind dovetail. It isn't real easy to use for offset tenons. It is a good tool; it just isn't a full solution.

Personally, I think a high quality router table and something like the Multirouter or its less capable inspiration (the Pantorouter) is a more complete package. The multrouter can be set up with the digital indicator to give real precision to the unit. With something like the Incra LS positioner with a Wonder Fence, you can cut all manner of dovetails. The Multirouter excels at mortise and tenon joinery and can cut dovetails and box joints as well.

There's a lot of options; what matters is what type of joinery are you really intending to do. That is the key to selecting the tools that can be of most use and versatility for you.

https://youtu.be/OKFmOGW24ms
https://youtu.be/_yuN-_XTQPY


Mike

[Vince Re]

I have had essential tremor for at least 30 years making woodworking an exciting challenge. I was first diagnosed by a family doctor. He asked me if a glass of wine made it go away and when I answered yes he said essential tremor. I have since had the diagnoses confirmed by a neurologist. The tremor eventually forced me out of the lab( I am an analytical chemist) but not out of the shop. Essential tremor is quite well known these days and a neurologist can suggest ways to minimize the shaking. They include medications, surgery and in some cases botox.

Thanks for the hopeful message...I've had essential tremor for several years now, although until recently, my symptoms were mild and only rarely an issue. Now, I've noticed that even if I'm not feeling shaky, soon as I grip a woodworking tool, my symptoms seem to get worse, making a lot of what I do in the shop harder and harder. I haven't been down the path of visiting a neurologist yet - that's coming up in the next few months for me.

Other than the frustration of not being able to do things the way I used to do them, I'm concerned because I have a few family members that were Parkinson's patients, and I worry at some point, it may be more than just my hands that jitter.

[Vince Re]

No not the Shaper Origin... the Pantorouter. Check it out - no software required.

https://www.pantorouter.com/

Thanks for the suggestion...I noticed that there are plans for a DIY pantorouter - I think I'll give that a try. Seems easily built and I can probably piece it together from stuff I have on hand already.