Moxon / Dovetail Vise

[Greg Parrish]

On my new bench, I have a Benchcrafted leg vise on the left side and a Veritas sliding tail vise on the right. The bench is relatively low at only 33-3/4 off the ground. This was on purpose to keep it lower than my table saw, but also to put it in a comfortable height for me for planing. I have another bench that is 37" off the ground that I thought about installing the Veritas twin screw vise on the front of however, I'm also looking at just adding a Moxon Vise or Dovetail vise instead so that the front of that bench stays open and unencumbered.

In looking at the options out there, I'm sort of narrowed down to 3 so far. The Lie Nielsen Dovetail vise, the Benchcrafted Moxon vise or the Woodriver Cozmanized kit. I don't mind spending for quality if it's warranted and I like that both Lie Nielsen and Benchcrafted offer prebuilt versions so I can put them straight to work. However, I'm guessing the Benchcrafted prebuilt is built to order where the Lie Nielsen version would ship right away. I like the spring feature on the Rob Cosman version but don't feel that's a huge deal quite honestly. I like the fact that the Lie Nielsen version has 6" capacity versus the 4" capacity on the other two.

I'd like to stick to one of these 3 kits/prebuilts or something of similar quality. Anyone have one of these 3 Moxon/Dovetail setups that can offer input on them?

Thank you.

[Tom Bussey]

I have a couple sets of of moxon hardware. Cast hand wheels. Derek has a pair from me. Springs are not a big deal they just go in between the jaws. Most good hardware stores have them. PM me if interested

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Tom. Sent you a PM to get a little more info on what you’ve got. I did read Derek’s post on his moxon vise.


I have a couple sets of of moxon hardware. Cast hand wheels. Derek has a pair from me. Springs are not a big deal they just go in between the jaws. Most good hardware stores have them. PM me if interested

[Derek Cohen]

Regarding the springs - they do matter ….

I built these into my Moxon vise after seeing a video by David Baron about 7 or 8 years ago. I suspect that Rob Cosman might have either seen his video, or my posts on forums. He added his a few years later than I did. Probably David’s version as the springs on mine are different. They are conical in shape and not parallel.

https://i.postimg.cc/gdcBpsn9/Moxon-spring5.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/QN80j4nH/Spring1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

This allows the spring to collapse on itself, rather than requiring a mortise into which to be compressed. It not only simplifies construction but, importantly, leaves more spring available to do more work.

The Moxon vise closed ..

https://i.postimg.cc/YkXDCFWv/Moxon-spring2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

As you release the tension (open the wheels) ..

https://i.postimg.cc/9CKxGj1V/Moxon-spring3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/X4pHGvfQ/Moxon-spring4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Reed Gray]

I don't have a moxon vice yet, but with some of the irregular shaped pieces I have in my shop, it would be handy to have one. I do plan on building a bench in the next year or three....

robo hippy

[Keegan Shields]

Build one! It’s not hard and good practice.

I used the Benchcrafted hardware kit because Toms hardware wasn’t listed. I wouldn’t hesitate to use either. Trickiest part is drilling the holes if you don’t have a drill press. Benchcrafted has a .pdf with dimensions as a starting point.

[Phil Gaudio]

One solution (courtesy of Christian Becksvoort):
https://i.postimg.cc/15DQvZbC/IMG-3377.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JG7vhSrZ)

[Christopher Charles]

I also built a Moxon using Tom's hardware and highly recommend. Have been meaning to add springs as Derek has but haven't gotten around to it. Go for it!

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I’ve talked myself into just adding a front apron and twin screw vise to my tall bench. As mentioned my new bench is a little over 33” high and my other bench is around 37”. A twin screw on that approximates the same height as adding a moxon to the other one and I can get greater opening distance and won’t have to store it.

Tanks again.

[Reed Gray]

I watched a Rob Cosman video last night about vices for benches. He didn't care for the Moxon vices. My comment was that one thing they do that the other vices won't do is hold irregular shaped pieces. I make a lot of bowls, and being 'thrifty' I will take a lot of the off cuts and cut them into rectangles from 1 to maybe 3 inches. When they are dry, none of them are straight, so it is a pain to clamp them in the more standard vices.

robo hippy

[Greg Parrish]

I’m still stalling on doing anything. I honestly can’t make up my mind. I see benefits to both directions, moxon for portability or twin screw on my tall bench. I think I want more capacity than the standard Benchcrafted style kits to make it more future proof. That means I’d be looking at the Lee Nielsen style dovetail vise with 6” or the Veritas twin screw with 12”. not sure if any of the others have more capacity or not.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I don't identify as a Neander but I do use hand tools when they provide the best resolution to a woodworking problem I am addressing. Recently I needed a method of holding some thin trim pieces so I could plane the cut surface to a smooth finish. I used an 8" hand clamp but could only plane 8" at a time of the 20+" pieces. The next woodworking guild meeting I attended, the owners of the shop, a very talented and productive couple, had recently built a Moxon vice.

I drove to Spokane the next day to buy one of the "complete" Wood River kits but it turned out they didn't have the kit with the wood included. I bought what they had. The next day I drove to Walla Walla, WA to buy the hard maple. In short, after spending over $400 I have a Moxon vice the next time I need to plane something long and/or thin or both.

[Derek Cohen]

I watched a Rob Cosman video last night about vices for benches. He didn't care for the Moxon vices. My comment was that one thing they do that the other vices won't do is hold irregular shaped pieces. I make a lot of bowls, and being 'thrifty' I will take a lot of the off cuts and cut them into rectangles from 1 to maybe 3 inches. When they are dry, none of them are straight, so it is a pain to clamp them in the more standard vices.

robo hippy

Reed, that must have been an old video. Since then RC has discovered that (1) they are a dovetailing tool of substance, and (2) he can make and sell them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[chris carter]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I’ve talked myself into just adding a front apron and twin screw vise to my tall bench. As mentioned my new bench is a little over 33” high and my other bench is around 37”. A twin screw on that approximates the same height as adding a moxon to the other one and I can get greater opening distance and won’t have to store it.

Tanks again.

I have a tall bench at 42” as I am 6’6” tall. And it has an apron and a twin screw so in my humble opinion you, sir, are a very smart man! The apron with a twin screw end vise was my dream setup and I honestly can't say that things could be better.

The capacity of my vise is whatever length pipes I put in. It can probably in excess of 4’ long pipes, which is nuts. The pipes I have in there right now give me a capacity of about 2ft, which is still nuts. But it did come in handy a few times.
503777503778503779

[Reed Gray]

I think it was a 2 year old video. He did show how to make one from the Woodcraft kit. It clamps to the bench so the wood will be mounted higher, which is a better ergonomic position for cutting dove tails. I would like to find some of the threads he uses on his other vices, which he had custom made. One turn equals about 1 inch. I can see that being handy. Also saw on Rex Kruger's site that some are quick release so you don't have to crank as much. Good idea. Still lots of pondering to do before I make a bench....

robo hippy

[Greg Parrish]

I have a couple sets of of moxon hardware. Cast hand wheels. Derek has a pair from me. Springs are not a big deal they just go in between the jaws. Most good hardware stores have them. PM me if interested

Tom, I sent you a follow up PM with a question or two. Thanks, Greg

[Tim Andrews]

I work out of my garage shop with limited space where a traditional workbench and vise are not an option, so my Moxon vise gets a LOT of use. I built mine based on Mike Farrington’s video. The back shelf is very useful. I also installed springs and recommend them.

[Greg Parrish]

I re-read Derek's build a few times and have decided to follow his lead with a Moxon vise with adjustable height rear support. Just waiting to hear back from Tom on his available Moxon hardware, but realize it's a holiday week here in the states. :)

[Bob Jones 5443]

Yes, buy Tom’s set. The beauty of it is the iron hand wheels with the Acme threads. Those are the parts Benchcrafted charges a high price for, because most of us can’t tap a 3/4” Acme thread. Tom has made the investment in tooling.

If you think you want more capacity, you can buy longer Acme screws from McMaster Carr. They’re pretty inexpensive compared to the entire assembly. Mine are one foot, if I remember correctly. I’ve never run them out to gain more capacity. I have about three inches as it’s set now.

[Greg Parrish]

Got Tom’s kit today. It looks great. Will try to get my moxon vise project started over the coming weeks. Thanks everyone.

[Bob Jones 5443]

It’s a fun project and a great tool to have. I pulled mine off its hanger the other day to gain close access to a 42” board’s end grain. In the Moxon, it only stuck out a few inches above the vise instead of a foot above bench height.

I opted for 8/4 maple for the jaws. They’re visually more appealing than laminated parts.

Enjoy the project!

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Bob.

I'm hopeful to use some white oak that we cut and milled ourselves. The piece I had planned is currently 1.5" thick and 5-3/8" wide. That said, it appears to have developed some twist across its 7 foot length. I'm hopeful I can joint two pieces out of it that are flat and square but still thick enough to use. If not, I'll have to look to something different which means buying a piece of wood most likely. Will see how it goes.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Greg, I was so excited to have my own shop-built Moxon that I splurged for a beautiful plank of maple that had a fine trail of cinnamon-colored grain. I admire its subtle appearance every time I clamp it to the bench.

Make sure to put a generous bevel on the top of the outer chop (jaw).

[Stephen Farris]

First post on this site for me. I’m moving in the hand tool direction and recently finished a workbench from Rob Cosman’s plans with a Quick Release steel vise bought from Lee Valley in the end position.

I bought a Benchcraft Moxon vise kit some time ago, before Rob began to sell his version. I have begun prepping the chops from a lovely piece of hard maple. (Cut to length, 45 degree slope on top of outer chop, planed smooth. Holes not drilled). If anyone has advice or tips I would be grateful.

Obviously, I am not yet in a position to have an opinion of much value but I will say that height is a factor in my decisions. I am 6’4” even in the shrinking stage of life and think that the Moxon vise will help the old back.

[Warren Mickley]

Welcome to the forum, Stephen!

The most important thing you can do to be easy on your back is to have good posture, as upright as possible. Some have the idea that their eyes should be close to the level of the saw, or even sight down the saw, so they bend way over. Not only is this rough on your back but cramps your arms as well. If you insist on bending over, raising the work four inches is of but modest help.

Here is an example of poor posture:

504767

[chris carter]

First post on this site for me. I’m moving in the hand tool direction and recently finished a workbench from Rob Cosman’s plans with a Quick Release steel vise bought from Lee Valley in the end position.

I bought a Benchcraft Moxon vise kit some time ago, before Rob began to sell his version. I have begun prepping the chops from a lovely piece of hard maple. (Cut to length, 45 degree slope on top of outer chop, planed smooth. Holes not drilled). If anyone has advice or tips I would be grateful.

Obviously, I am not yet in a position to have an opinion of much value but I will say that height is a factor in my decisions. I am 6’4” even in the shrinking stage of life and think that the Moxon vise will help the old back.

I’m 6’6” and 50 years old – I’ve had my share of back problems starting in mid 20s. My bench is 42” tall which is much taller than it would be if I followed any of these (idiotic) wrist/knuckle/etc. rules. There is no reason to hunch over to hand plane if you use a good stance so that you are using the floor to your advantage. The other BIG BIG BIG thing is I wear a back brace when I do woodworking (and many other tasks). That is a total game changer. This is the one I wear: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GS08CM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Best $30 I’ve ever spent.

[Derek Cohen]

Welcome to the forum, Stephen!

The most important thing you can do to be easy on your back is to have good posture, as upright as possible. Some have the idea that their eyes should be close to the level of the saw, or even sight down the saw, so they bend way over. Not only is this rough on your back but cramps your arms as well. If you insist on bending over, raising the work four inches is of but modest help.

Here is an example of poor posture:

504767

Warren, that must be the worst posture I have seen in a long time! Hunched over the workpiece, not only bending from the neck instead of the knees, but bunched up so that any saw stroke can never be a fluid action.

There is a relevant point made here that, while a Moxon vise helps by lifting work higher, and positioning it for better ergonomics, there needs to be a conscious awareness of what constitutes the ideal stance for sawing. In the past, I would look at the dovetail videos of Rob Cosman, where he stretched across his Scandinavian workbench, and thought to myself what a strain on the body this must be. He has the handskills to pull it off, and for that reason he must it appear acceptable, if not ideal. So it is interesting that he now uses a Moxon Vise …. although the cynic in me also wonders whether he does this as it is one more tool to make and sell - regardless, he is a very good teacher and influential, and for this reason all he does must be scrutinised. Watch the posture.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Stephen, welcome to the Creek.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

I have begun prepping the chops from a lovely piece of hard maple. (Cut to length, 45 degree slope on top of outer chop, planed smooth. Holes not drilled). If anyone has advice or tips I would be grateful.


Stephen, welcome to SMC and welcome to the Moxon vise. Even at 5’10” I find the Moson’s height a great ergonomic benefit.

Your call for advice on the holes brought me back to a step I had gratefully let slide from memory. You’d think it would be easy to bore 3/4” holes at the same place in both chops, and then elongate the holes in the front chop horizontally about 1/16” both left and right. Mine didn’t line up quite that way. The elongated (oval) holes run slightly askew: a couple of degrees south of east, if you will. They line up fine when the vise is closed, but the front chop wobbles ever so slightly (up to the left and down to the right) when I loosen it and pull it back. It’s easy to nudge back into horizontal when tightening, and for the vise’s use the eccentricity is really immaterial (but I notice). How I let that happen with a drill press fence is a mystery, but such is woodworking in my shop.

I used a new, sharp 3/4” Forstner bit, and I could have been more careful to keep the oval offset horizontal. So that’s my advice. Take extra special care to keep the ovals level.

Those in the know will say an off kilter oval makes no difference as long as the tops of the chops are flush when tightened. (And even that doesn’t really matter, within reason, but aesthetically you want them to be flush when the vise is empty, closed, and stored on a hook or whatever.) The ovals are only there to allow the front chop to shimmy in and out with either the left or right end forward or rear of the other. This lets you hold parts that don’t have parallel faces, and enables the classic Moxon light-touch tightening experience: spin one hand wheel to just make contact with the work, then tighten the other hand wheel to create the secure grip. That’s what makes this tool fun to use.

But try to make your ovals horizontal. Good luck!

[Tom Bender]

Making ovals out of round holes is challenging. A drill is the wrong tool. It pushes the wood right and the bit left. This can be minimized but completely eliminating it is not really possible. A file or rasp is a better choice.

[Stephen Farris]

Thanks for the welcome to the board and the good advice. I apologize for being slow in responding but I had a little health trouble (not the back.) I just finished the moxon vise project and am pleased with the result.
i don’t own a drill press and used an electric hand drill to create the 3/4” holes. I did use a Milescraft drill guide in an effort to keep everything straight and true. Doubtless due to my own lack of skill I got the holes slightly off line and had to adjust the holes with rasps. An aside: I wish I had laid out the money originally for a higher quality rasp. My half round rasp, bought from Lee Valley and manufactured by Ajax in Czechia, was frustrating in the very hard maple I used. I also had a small rounded rasp, also bought from Lee Valley, manufactured in Japan by, I think, Iwasaki. That worked much better. On the other hand, I got a deep sense of satisfaction out of cutting the hexagonal mortise for the bolts with a chisel.
I certainly would not want a veteran woodworker to look closely at my work, including the mortises, but the thing works well. Now to put it to good use!
The name Rob Cosman has come up in the thread. When I was first thinking about the project, before RC was selling his version of the Moxon vise, I put in an online query to the Cosman website help function. I got a personal phone call from Col. Luther Shealy, whom you can see in some of the Cosman videos. He talked with me for 20-30 minutes about the project in considerable detail. He recommended laying out the extra money for the Benchcrafted kit. Great customer service!