Shaper w/ Router Spindle vs Router Table

[Sean Moore]

I am thinking of upgrading to a shaper that also comes with a spindle for router collets and ditching my router table altogether. Im wondering if anyone else has gone this approach?

Id love for the option to be able to run large spiral cutters on a shaper in addition the the usual capacity of a router table. Plus it would be easier to mount a power feeder to a shaper.

Any insight would be great.

[Richard Coers]

Check the rpms on your shaper. Many won't go over 9,000rpm when a router runs twice that. To use the shaper with small router bits, you would have to cut your feed rate in half to get the proper chip load. I don't recommend using the shaper.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with Richard. When you already have a shaper it’s sometimes handy to use it
with router bits. Just like when your car won’t run it’s good to have a skate board.

[Mike Wilkins]

Shapers do not run at high enough RPM's to run router bits, especially smaller bits. If you are set on getting a router, consider a smaller bench top router table for the smaller stuff.
I am lucky enough to have both-shop space is tight.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have a variable speed router mounted on an old tablesaw wing casting bolted to the back of my shaper table. This allows for running router bits at the correct rpm while using a power feeder on the stable shaper base.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have a variable speed router mounted on an old tablesaw wing casting bolted to the back of my shaper table. This allows for running router bits at the correct rpm while using a power feeder on the stable shaper base.

That sounds like something I’d love to see a few photos of! I don’t have any room off the backside of either of my shapers in current configuration but if I did….

[Kevin Jenness]

That sounds like something I’d love to see a few photos of! I don’t have any room off the backside of either of my shapers in current configuration but if I did….

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[Jacques Gagnon]

Well done Kevin!

[Dan Friedrichs]

I have a slider/shaper with router spindle, and have never had any issue running router bits. While true that the speed is much slower, I've never seen an appreciable impact of this.

[Phillip Mitchell]

That looks great Kevin. I’m sure it’s very handy with the feeder already there.

What is the Steton machine in the corner in first photo? I have an ‘86 Steton bandsaw that I really like and, aside from it and a 350mm Steton jointer / planer / mortiser combo machine in the shop I apprenticed in, I have very rarely seen them in the US.

[Joel Gelman]

I have a shaper that offers speeds up to 12,000. I have used a router table for decades before that. Yes, router bits run at higher speeds, but what matters to me is how the bits cut the wood. In a shaper with the power behind it where a bit will never bog down, I do not have a problem. Ever. I have the router table experience to do the comparison. Some shapers have fences that do not go back far enough for the smaller router bits. Which shaper you get can influence how easy it is to use a shaper as a router table. You did not mention which shaper.

This has been discussed on other forums. Some say if you have the room for both, and space is not an issue, that is ideal. I agree. Some have ditched the router table and never looked back. For me, I started to use the shaper with a router spindle as an option while I still had my router table. I then confirmed the space used by my router table is best used in other ways even though I understand there are ways to efficiently place it in the shop. I no longer have my router table.

[Kevin Jenness]

That looks great Kevin. I’m sure it’s very handy with the feeder already there.

What is the Steton machine in the corner in first photo? I have an ‘86 Steton bandsaw that I really like and, aside from it and a 350mm Steton jointer / planer / mortiser combo machine in the shop I apprenticed in, I have very rarely seen them in the US.

It's a slot mortiser. Old school with dovetailed slides, much like a Bini.

[Paul Haus]

To the OP, here's my take on some general things. For a shaper, get one at least 3 HP to have oomph behind it. Get one that reversible so you are not limited to shaping only one direction. You can get roughly the same cut quality out of it with router bits, but it's CPS that determine the quality of the cut so you need to reduce your feed rate to make up the difference.
On the shaper itself, unless it happens to come with it, forget about the 1/2" spindle. 3/4" is a good happy medium spindle diameter. 1" or 1.25" is better but you'll pay a premium for cutters and they will be a larger diameter cutter.
Just some thoughts.

[Mike King]

Some shaper router spindles give speeds of more than 15k rpm. That being said, often the shaper fence will not provide the same flexibility in positioning that a router table will. I have a router spindle on my Felder CF741 and I rarely use it. In fact, I've upgraded my router table to have an Incra LS positioned with a Wonder fence. The shaper is fantastic for many tasks, such as cutting tenons, rebates, and many moulding functions. With a power feeder it is an amazing machine that can give you a lot of versatility. The tooling is also expensive. The router table is also a great machine that offers its own strengths. Personally, I'm in the camp of having both.

Mike

[Cary Falk]

I have also retired my router table after getting a shaper. I slow the feed rate and don't have any issues. I have the Laguna Pro shaper with a max spindle rpm of 10k.

[Terry Therneau]

I have a Felder KF700S saw/shaper with a router spindle, also a router table. The second is a lot quicker to set up for a simple profile, so it is what I use most often by far. On the other hand the power feeder on the shaper can be very nice. I made a run of walnut shoe molding during our kitchen remodel, and I just could not get a smooth profile feeding by hand using the router. Worked well on the shaper: run an edge, rip it off on the Unisaw, repeat. (This didn't work for the very last strip of the board --- nothing left for the feeder to grab!) The router spindle runs at 15K, with a different belt.

Message: having both is nice. But just one more tool, even a small one, and something's going to have to go to make room.

Terry T.

[Jared Sankovich]

I may be in the minority but I see no need for router bits in a shaper or a router table if you have a shaper. 40mm knives are cheaper than low grade router bits.

[Bill Dufour]

For people making money a shaper rpm is too slow for router bits. For home shop folks a shaper rpm is good enough for router bits with good dust collection.
Bill D

[Chris Parks]

It would be interesting to see what the cutting speed drops to on a router vs the free spin speed before the router is loaded up.

[Mike Cutler]

Yes, router bits can be used in a shaper table. Depending on the bit, it may actually work better.
Some of the larger, diameter, router bit sets for doors and cabinets are designed to be run at lower rpms on the router itself and will be within the realm of acceptable use on a shaper table running at full speed. However, spending a little more $$$$ for the correct shaper set that does the same thing, is a better investment.
The small router bits may not run as well, and require some feed adjustments.
It would be hard to believe that there exists a router bit profile that there is not an insert cutter profile, for a shaper table, that matches it somewhere.
I have a shaper table and used the router collet adapter that came with it for a little while when I first got it. It's been at least 10 years since I last put it on. I honestly have no practical use for it.

My router table was retired many years ago. There is nothing I do, that a router mounted in a table does better than my shaper.

[Bruce Page]

I have a slider/shaper with router spindle, and have never had any issue running router bits. While true that the speed is much slower, I've never seen an appreciable impact of this.

I have run many router bits in my old vertical milling machine that doesn't come close to a router's RPM, or a shaper's. The chip load certainly isn't ideal but it cuts wood just fine.

[Kevin Jenness]

For myself, I have a fair collection of router bits and it is convenient to be able to run them with a powerfeed rather than duplicating them with shaper knives, plus many have pilot bearings for curved work which might call for more bearings depending on the shaper head being used.

As far as spindle size goes, if I were starting from scratch I would look for a 1 1/4" spindle and have all my tooling in that size. As it is, I have number of 3/4" bore cutters and spend more time than I would like swapping out spindles for different tasks- not that it takes a great deal of time, but it's a nuisance.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I may be in the minority but I see no need for router bits in a shaper or a router table if you have a shaper. 40mm knives are cheaper than low grade router bits.

I do not have a RT in my shop, but the only things I find myself wanting one for are more odd furniture things like sliding dovetails / routing dovetailed groove or dado in the middle of a board, etc. A router collet spindle would be able to handle something like this, I assume, though I have never used one in a shaper.

Something where I need to pass a board face down completely over the top of a buried cutter (like a dovetail bit) obviously doesn’t work on a shaper with a larger diameter, bored cutterhead opposed to smaller, shanked cutter. With sliding DTs there are other ways to get there - track-guided handheld router, etc.

Otherwise, I can’t think of an operation that I’m doing or wanting that a shaper cannot handle in some way.

[brent stanley]

I have a slider/shaper with router spindle, and have never had any issue running router bits. While true that the speed is much slower, I've never seen an appreciable impact of this.

I've had the same experience as Dan. Sometimes high rpms are required by routers because they lack power but that's unlikely on a decent shaper. I have used many router bits in a shaper at half of their design rpm with absolutely zero issue.

[Joe Calhoon]

I had a router spindle made for my vintage T23. It only runs 9K. It works good with medium and large size bits. I don’t use it very often but handy occasionally for special setups. 25 years ago I made a nice router table and only used it a few times. Way quicker and better to set up the shaper if you have the skills. I can see where a router table would be the way for a hobby shop. I use small radius and chamfer bits in my Garniga rebate head that accepts these type small cutters and a better cut than similar profiles in routers.
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[Wes Grass]

At least one time I've used my router spindle in the shaper was when I needed to angle the spindle for some odd cut.

[John TenEyck]

Before I got a CNC I never thought about chip load, only not to exceed the maximum recommended rpm. Of course, I burned up some bits by falsely thinking high rpm would give a smoother finish and maybe it does, but at the expense of overheating the bit. For a 2 flute 1/4" bit in hardwood, the recommended chip load is about 0.01 inches. 11000 rpm at a feedrate of 240 inch/minute (4 inches/second) will give you that. If you run the bit at 20,000 rpm, you would need a feedrate of 400 inch/minute. That's about 7 inches/second, pretty fast for hand feeding.

Before the CNC I thought a router bit in a shaper would never work well. I don't think that way anymore.

John