Best handsaw if you only buy one?

[James Jayko]

Caveat: I have a Japanese saw that I use for dovetailing.

If you were buying one saw to rule them all (except dovetailing and breaking down stock), what would it be? The dovetail saw is nowhere near aggressive enough for 'not dovetails.' I generally use machines when it helps, but still use hand tools more than your average bear.

You're throwing one saw in your tool box for everything besides dovetailing. What would it be?

[andy bessette]

My very favorite is the 240mm Razor saw with removable handle and replaceable blades. Been using them for decades.

[Richard Coers]

Like asking for which chisel is best if I can only buy one. My default would be a Ryobi style Japanese saw which comes with cross cut teeth on one side and rip on the other.

[James Jayko]

Like asking for which chisel is best if I can only buy one..

1/2” Lie Nielsen. Boomdone 🤷🏼*♂️

[Ben Ellenberger]

Like asking for which chisel is best if I can only buy one. My default would be a Ryobi style Japanese saw which comes with cross cut teeth on one side and rip on the other.

This is what I bring if I have some odd job that might require a saw.

[George Yetka]

Watch woodcraft,they have a japanese saws in their flyers

This month is a gyokucho kataba razorsaw for $17
and a hashiki flush cut for $24

I had veritas 3 saw set which I sold because I enjoyed the Japanese saws more. I now have 4 which rounded out the set pretty well. All for about $100.

[Rob Luter]

I use my LN carcass saw quite a bit. It’s my go-to “not dovetail saw” for joinery.

[Rob Luter]

Like asking for which chisel is best if I can only buy one. My default would be a Ryobi style Japanese saw which comes with cross cut teeth on one side and rip on the other.

These offer great utility to those that like a pull saw. I could never get the hang of mine.

[steven c newman]

Disston D-115....26", 7ppi..always ready to go to work.and the most comfortable handle in use. And..it is "only" 95 years old...

[Jim McCue]

I use a japanese ryoba for over 90% of my hand sawing needs, especially if you consider non-woodworking home improvement tasks. Although the sides are described as rip or crosscut I sometimes use them more like coarse or fine, regardless of grain orientation. Also use on sheet goods and plastic. Currently using bear saw brand but have used several brands over the years and all are similar.

[Tom M King]

Why would I only have one? Backsaws have a similar box, but they're in one of the waterproof ones in the cubbies.

[Jim Koepke]

Like asking for which chisel is best if I can only buy one.


1/2” Lie Nielsen. Boomdone ����*♂️

Please post a link to a video of cutting a 1/4" mortise with a 1/2" chisel. Clearing waste between dovetails cut for 1/4" pins would also be interesting.

There are likely more 1/4" chisels in my shop than many people have in their "full set" of chisels


Why would I only have one?

My answer is the same question.

My Japanese saws are used for a few things. Most of my work is done using western saws.

Work goes best when one doesn't try to limit themself to a single tool.

For me, at a minimum, it would be a rip saw and a crosscut saw. Tooth count would depend on the work being done.

jtk

[Ben Ellenberger]

Please post a link to a video of cutting a 1/4" mortise with a 1/2" chisel. Clearing waste between dovetails cut for 1/4" pins would also be interesting.


If you have a 1/2” chisel you get 1/2” dovetail spacing!

[Edward Weber]

I don't have that many saws. The question of which ONE saw is tough. I would say I would pick my Bahco Prizecut Universal
https://www.bahco.com/int_en/prizecuttm-universal-handsaws-for-plastics-laminates-wood-soft-metals-pb_np_.html
Just a good all around saw, not for joinery but I could get things small enough, down to a manageable size to where the chisels could take over.

[Greg Parrish]

Hate to start a whole new thread, but what if you already have a section of backsaws. I like the small Dozuki and other back braced pull saws, but do not like the Ryoba saws as I have a hard time controlling the cut as they seem too floppy and flexible to me.

Thinking of trying something like a dovetail and a sash saw in a western style back saw. How do you decide between say a Gramercy dovetail and sash saw versus say a Bad Axe dovetail and sash saw. Or, do you go with something like a Lie Nielsen dovetail, crosscut and tenon saws instead. I'm in the same boat of looking for some direction on where to start with a first back saws.

[steven c newman]

Disston No. 4 backsaw
Jackson 12" backsaw
Disston No. 68 Gents/dovetail saw

Then there is the Atkins No. 10

[Robert Hazelwood]

The one saw limitation pretty much means a Ryoba of some sort. I don't know of any other type that has rip and crosscut teeth on the same blade. I have been happy with the medium-sized Gyokucho brand Ryoba (I think its 240 mm)

[Jim Koepke]

The one saw limitation pretty much means a Ryoba of some sort. I don't know of any other type that has rip and crosscut teeth on the same blade. I have been happy with the medium-sized Gyokucho brand Ryoba (I think its 240 mm)

There is a western saw with both:

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At 10" it is a bit small for an all around saw.

jtk

[steven c newman]

The Atkins No. 10 backsaw....has rip teeth AND fine cross cut teeth ....all you need to do is flip things over..
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And that bar can be set as a depth stop, too..
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These 2 aren't bad....for joinery work...
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Full sized No. 7s....or a Panel saw sized No. 7...
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Most will call for 2 main saws....Cross cut D-115, and a Rip D8.....
No need to limit yourself...these guys didn't..
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[Keegan Shields]

Greg,

I too struggled to get consistent cuts with the janpanese saws - I’m sure my technique is to blame.

I purchased a set of LN backsaws a few years ago and really like them. I try to get practice where I can but I get a much better result. The LN backsaws seem to be a good intersection of quality, price, and performance. The crosscut/carcass saw is a favorite.

I’m sure the Veritas versions are quality also.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Keegan. I got a wild hair and ordered a Bad Axe Stiletto dovetail saw today from their ready to ship section. Probably not the best choice but figured it would give me a more aggressive dovetail saw and my Dōzuki pull saw could be a more fine saw for thinner material for now. I’m looking at the likes of a 14” sash saw as a second saw and have been considering the Gramercy and Bad Axe versions. Figured that would be an easier approach than 3 or more individual saws. However, maybe I should have just stuck with the 3 LN saws. Ugh……..

[Andrew Hughes]

My best joinery saws are from Mike Wenzloff then Adria then last but not least Windsor Dovetail saw.
I don’t have pics of them because they are camera shy.
Good Luck

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A 20 inch 10 point same as when I bought myself this one when I was 9 or 10. 2nd would be the backsaw (also a pre teen purchase), 3rd one like Grandmas wedding present to Grandpa (top). The one that gets used the most lately is the Xact-O. I will be buying another of the Xact-O's as I can not imagine being able to file one of those.

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[Edward Weber]

So the ONE saw things is just out the window?
Now it's talk about you collection

[Keegan Shields]

Oh I’m sure the Gramercy and Bad Axe saws are beautiful tools. Just out of my budget. Let me know how you like them!

[Greg Parrish]

Oh I’m sure the Gramercy and Bad Axe saws are beautiful tools. Just out of my budget. Let me know how you like them!

Will do. After some reading and some input from Derek Cohen, I decided to try to Gramercy Sash saw. And, as mentioned above, I also ordered a Bad Axe Stiletto with walnut handle that they had in their ready to ship section. Part of me wonders if the Gramercy DT saw or the LN DT saw would have been a better choice, but I guess just like chisels and planes, you have to start somewhere and develop a benchmark for things you like, don't like, and things you want to change. I'm also hoping that I can get by with only the two saw approach since I'm a hybrid wood worker and use power tools for most things. We will see.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My one would be the 20 inch 10 point. Based on what it has done for me over the years. This is indeed a tough question to have a direct answer for. It is like asking a mechanic to chose one wrench.

[Kent A Bathurst]

My best joinery saws are from Mike Wenzloff then Adria then last but not least Windsor Dovetail saw.
I don’t have pics of them because they are camera shy.
Good Luck

I have a set of the Adria. 12” rip and xcut. Faves. Got the xcut back when, with a LN DT. Then stumbled on the Adria rip NOS and jumped at it.

Like NEVER see Adria offered for sale. Folks don’t let go, it seems

[James Jayko]

Thinking of trying something like a dovetail and a sash saw in a western style back saw. How do you decide between say a Gramercy dovetail and sash saw versus say a Bad Axe dovetail and sash saw. Or, do you go with something like a Lie Nielsen dovetail, crosscut and tenon saws instead. I'm in the same boat of looking for some direction on where to start with a first back saws.

This was sort of my question. I have a good dovetail solution, and I’m not precious with the “hand tool or nothing” thing. I was basically asking “is there a saw that’s pretty good at most things, but not built for ONE thing”?

[Ted Calver]

This Diston D-115 from Mike Allen (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?304088-FS-top-of-the-line-vintage-fully-restored-sharpened-tuned-hand-saws) would work as the one for me if I had the cash. I have another of Mike's finely tuned saws and it's amazing.

[Tony Wilkins]

This was sort of my question. I have a good dovetail solution, and I’m not precious with the “hand tool or nothing” thing. I was basically asking “is there a saw that’s pretty good at most things, but not built for ONE thing”?
Haven’t answered because I wasn’t totally sure what you needed it for. Sounds like you’re a power guy that wants a hand saw? It also seems like you want something for general joinery and maybe bench hook work? If that’s the case I’d look for a sash saw (ie back saw) in the 12” to 16” range in cross cut.

[alan west]

26" Disston #16, 7ppi filed cross cut. Use it for woodworking, trimming trees around the yard, and just used it to cut a "path" thru a neighbors deck railing to get to an elevator she had installed. The other guys were trying to figure out how to cut it with a circular saw, and the Disston solved the problem in about 20 seconds. A sharp hand saw is a useful tool.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

If any fine woodworking is going to be done with this one saw 10 tpi is a minimum. I do not know the many Diston models. My backsaw is a 12 tpi. I am going to be on the lookout for a 20 inch 12 tpi.

[Jim Koepke]

This was sort of my question. I have a good dovetail solution, and I’m not precious with the “hand tool or nothing” thing. I was basically asking “is there a saw that’s pretty good at most things, but not built for ONE thing”?

For folks who use hand saws, picking one saw can be tricky if not impossible. A rip sharpened saw can crosscut but tends to be rough with less than 8 or 9 points per inch* (ppi). Up to a point, a saw with less teeth per inch will cut faster.

I have one saw that has a hybrid sharpening that is filed slightly crosscut that will also rip well.

If you are going to do your ripping on a table saw, then a saw filed for crosscut may be your best choice.

Many new saws are very nice. A century old Disston, Atkins or others if well sharpened will work every bit as good.

A lot of good information here > http://www.vintagesaws.com

jtk

* ppi is measured from point of tooth to point of tooth. Teeth per inch (tpi) is measured from the center of one of the gullets.

[Tom M King]

I keep three of these made in England Japanese pull saws in the truck. They can do almost any job but slow at a lot of them. I have one in bad shape for cutting questionable wood, one in terrible shape for cutting even worse stuff, and one new one for when I need a precise cut.

https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-Tools-Double-Edge-9-5-Inch-213103/dp/B0001GLEZ8/ref=asc_df_B0001GLEZ8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309807921328&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5576794586115547767&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009793&hvtargid=pla-589771985013&psc=1

[steven c newman]

On the road, again...
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There was a reason a lot of sawmakers back then SOLD a lot of 7ppi and 8 ppi handsaws..
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While an 11ppi is nice...
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It just takes too bloody long to cut stuff...like when one has a stack of lumber to go through...
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To get them all to fit where they need to go...
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These USED to be rough sawn 1 x 6 x 10' Ash planks....

[James Jayko]

Haven’t answered because I wasn’t totally sure what you needed it for. Sounds like you’re a power guy that wants a hand saw? It also seems like you want something for general joinery and maybe bench hook work? If that’s the case I’d look for a sash saw (ie back saw) in the 12” to 16” range in cross cut.

That's generally right. I was working on a project and had to cut out some waste around a tenon that I couldn't really do with the table saw, so it got me thinking if there was one good "all-arounder" to keep in the toolbox for those of us who aren't hand tool purists, and who don't need the big panel saws and that sort of thing. Like a Leatherman of saws...not the best of anything, but a good solution when you don't want to carry everything and don't really know what you'll need...

I ordered the Suizan folding ryoba and I'm going to give that a shot. But I'm not against a western saw at all, just against carting around a set of joinery saws when I only need it occasionally and I need it to be useful for more than just one thing.

[Tony Wilkins]

That's generally right. I was working on a project and had to cut out some waste around a tenon that I couldn't really do with the table saw, so it got me thinking if there was one good "all-arounder" to keep in the toolbox for those of us who aren't hand tool purists, and who don't need the big panel saws and that sort of thing. Like a Leatherman of saws...not the best of anything, but a good solution when you don't want to carry everything and don't really know what you'll need...

I ordered the Suizan folding ryoba and I'm going to give that a shot. But I'm not against a western saw at all, just against carting around a set of joinery saws when I only need it occasionally and I need it to be useful for more than just one thing.
Ryoba are very versatile. They can go from joinery to breaking down.

[Edward Weber]

I have 2 Suizan saws, not (the folding one) and for me, the handles are very slim, small in diameter with no taper. Easy to get a cramp or hand fatigue after a short time.
The folding style mentioned above, looks to have a much more comfortable ergonomic handle, hope it works out for you.
I had to make my own handle but it cuts very well.

[Jack Dover]

You're throwing one saw in your tool box for everything besides dovetailing. What would it be?

A 500mm frame saw with 1" wide blade at 13TPI rip, just like it is today: it's for everything besides dovetailing (although it does that too occasionally).

But if I would be limited to only one saw - it would be a 270mm ryoba. Because there's a few tasks which frame saw can't do and I have to grab a gents saw.

[Mike Soaper]

"I ordered the Suizan folding ryoba and I'm going to give that a shot. But I'm not against a western saw at all, just against carting around a set of joinery saws when I only need it occasionally and I need it to be useful for more than just one thing."

That Suizan looks promising. I have a Silky Woodboy Kataba folding saw that I toss in the tool box, it works for me. The blade's is a bit stiffer than the other pull saws that i have, it's also tapered a bit.

It's been awhile since I got a deal on mine, it's like this one but has a 27tpi? blade.

Silky Woodboy Folding Kataba Saw - Lee Valley Tools (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/saws/japanese/69152-silky-woodboy-folding-kataba-saw?item=60T6074)

[Jack Dover]

Since in real life I'm not limited in my saw choices, I have a folding kataba. It's an impressive tool, liked it so much that got me a folding dozuki. A tapered blade cuts and tracks very well, Silky boy is a great brand, like their tapered blades a lot, very good joinery saws.

It's just my current set up isn't particularly well suited for the methods of work Japanese tools are imposing. I'm in a really tight space and often rely on parts being clamped upright in the vises, or something like that. Japanese tools assume horizontal positioning, so wide work open surface works best. One day I'll move to a larger shop and then I'll switch.

[steven c newman]

503418
Shop made....Maple frame, allthread tensioner, Hardware and the blade from several old Butcher's Meat saws...9ppi
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18" blade...
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This is the backside of the cut...

[andy bessette]

...Japanese tools assume horizontal positioning...

Not any more so than English style. And, because you pull them, they are even easier to use on vertical workpieces. You simply have to adapt your own techniques to make it easy for you. For example, on vertical work, you want to elevate the work, or kneel, so that you are pulling down.

I work on yachts and consequently must often work in odd positions, like kneeling while using a toolbox as a workbench. The Japanese saws really seem ideal for such work.

[Greg Parrish]

Oh I’m sure the Gramercy and Bad Axe saws are beautiful tools. Just out of my budget. Let me know how you like them!

I hate to say it but I think the handle on the Gramercy is too small for my hand. I talked to them about it before deciding to try it to see if they had any handle size info but they didn’t. They did grab one and based on my hand measurement said that they thought it might be close. The Bad Axe Stiletto should come tomorrow. It is a different style handle, but I’m hoping it gives me some sort of idea as to their handle sizing.

Anyway, the Gramercy is a real beauty but I’m not sure I can comfortably use it. It’s just like the Veritas PM-V11 chisels. I wanted to love them but just couldn’t get comfortable with them in use. Will make a decision once I get a sense on how the Bad Axe feels with regards to whether I think I should order one of theirs with a larger handle instead.

[Greg Parrish]

So I’ve had time to fondle the Gramercy Sash saw more and I think the handle will be okay. When I get my hand adjusted just right it feels fine. And, once the weight is taken off the saw by a work piece, it changes the grip and pressure points anyway. It’s a beautiful saw so I’m inclined to make it work.

With regards to the Bad Axe Stiletto, I just received it and their set of bench hooks and it doesn’t disappoint either. Kinda wish I had a matching set between the two, but guess that is not that important at the end of the day. I will say that the 12” Stiletto is heavier than I anticipated so I may end up with a smaller saw for smaller pieces anyway. So, if I end up going back in for a 9 or 10 inch saw, maybe I will try the Gramercy version at that time.

Build quality wise, they are both well done and beautiful. To my eye, and to the feel on my hand, the Gramercy appears to have just a slightly higher fit and finish. Little things like the fact that the spit nuts are pristine looking on the Gramercy, but the ones on the Bad Axe have a little bit of rash/gall from a screw driver. I’ll give them a cut quality comparison later this weekend and report back again. Hopefully this helps James Jayko, the OP, as the Sash saw from either Gramercy or Bad Axe may also fit the bill for his need in the original post.

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Bad Axe Stiletto
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Gramercy Sash Saw
503561

[Greg Parrish]

Gotta go back on my comments above. Unfortunately, once I got a chance to do some cutting I realized the handle on the Gramercy doesn't fit my hand right. It causes pain and rubbing on my pinky. When just holding it, I thought it was going to be okay, but it appears if you have hands that measure 4" or more across it might be a little tight. It sure is a pretty saw but if I can't use it without discomfort or pain then it doesn't do me any good. That means custom sized handles from the various makers that offer them are probably my only option.

Cutting wise, both saws seem to perform very well. Two different types of saws here but the Bad Axe cut noticeably quicker in all the same materials, cross or rip. Again, I realize one is a sash and one is a dovetail but just trying to compare what I can while I have both.


So I’ve had time to fondle the Gramercy Sash saw more and I think the handle will be okay. When I get my hand adjusted just right it feels fine. And, once the weight is taken off the saw by a work piece, it changes the grip and pressure points anyway. It’s a beautiful saw so I’m inclined to make it work.

With regards to the Bad Axe Stiletto, I just received it and their set of bench hooks and it doesn’t disappoint either. Kinda wish I had a matching set between the two, but guess that is not that important at the end of the day. I will say that the 12” Stiletto is heavier than I anticipated so I may end up with a smaller saw for smaller pieces anyway. So, if I end up going back in for a 9 or 10 inch saw, maybe I will try the Gramercy version at that time.

Build quality wise, they are both well done and beautiful. To my eye, and to the feel on my hand, the Gramercy appears to have just a slightly higher fit and finish. Little things like the fact that the spit nuts are pristine looking on the Gramercy, but the ones on the Bad Axe have a little bit of rash/gall from a screw driver. I’ll give them a cut quality comparison later this weekend and report back again. Hopefully this helps James Jayko, the OP, as the Sash saw from either Gramercy or Bad Axe may also fit the bill for his need in the original post.

503557

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Bad Axe Stiletto
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Gramercy Sash Saw
503561

[Derek Cohen]

Interesting experience, Greg. My hands measure 4” across, and the handle fits nicely and is comfortable. I wonder if there is something about the particular handle you have?

What I appreciate about the Gramercy is that it is light, and mine cuts quickly and effortlessly enough with the original teeth still.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Derek, don’t know. Maybe I’m more sensitive to the handle shape due to the prior broken finger, not sure, but it certainly does give me some discomfort. Cut wise I didn’t mean to imply it didn’t cut well, just not as quickly as the other.

[Jim Koepke]

Derek, don’t know. Maybe I’m more sensitive to the handle shape due to the prior broken finger, not sure, but it certainly does give me some discomfort. Cut wise I didn’t mean to imply it didn’t cut well, just not as quickly as the other.

Many my saws with original handles have needed "adjustment." A little rasping here and there has done a lot to make them more comfortable.

At my knuckles my hand is just a bit over 4".

As you may have discovered your hand will tell you where to modify the tote.

The speed of the cut will depend a lot on the tooth count and the rake. Little rake and less teeth make a more aggressive saw. Dovetail saws are usually filed with more teeth and more rake not usually made to be aggressive.

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

One helpful way to think about this question is to organize saw choice around specific tasks. The typical preindustrial woodworker saw nest was built around three primary saws: 7–8 PPI Crosscut for breaking down rough stock, 10–12 PPI crosscut for finish cuts on final project components and 5 1/2 PPI ripsaw.

Equally important joinery saws – typically Backed with brass/steel. three basics were:

Dovetail saw, typically filed rip, 12-20 PPI.

Carcass saw, typically 12–16 PPI for cross cutting furniture components and tenon shoulder , etc.

Tennon Saw, filed rip, 9-14 PPI.

need representatives of each categories for basic woodworking. So perhaps the premise of one single saw is a bit limiting. Plenty of other Creekers here like Pete Taran, Daryl Wier and Dominic Greco, who can provide better details than me.

[James Jayko]

FWIW I bought the Suizan dual edged folding Royoba and so far, it's done what I've needed of it. Takes some getting used to, but if space is at a premium this seems a decent option.

[Richard Hutchings]

One helpful way to think about this question is to organize saw choice around specific tasks. The typical preindustrial woodworker saw nest was built around three primary saws: 7–8 PPI Crosscut for breaking down rough stock, 10–12 PPI crosscut for finish cuts on final project components and 5 1/2 PPI ripsaw.

Equally important joinery saws – typically Backed with brass/steel. three basics were:

Dovetail saw, typically filed rip, 12-20 PPI.

Carcass saw, typically 12–16 PPI for cross cutting furniture components and tenon shoulder , etc.

Tennon Saw, filed rip, 9-14 PPI.

need representatives of each categories for basic woodworking. So perhaps the premise of one single saw is a bit limiting. Plenty of other Creekers here like Pete Taran, Daryl Wier and Dominic Greco, who can provide better details than me.

I have all of these but the 5 point rip saw. I just won't go down that path. I like my BS and TS for that task. Now if I come across one at a yard-sale someday, it will come home with me. I don't see how one saw can do it all, wishful thinking.

[George Yetka]

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/razorsaw-seium-saku-ryoba-210mm-w-tpe-grip-razorsaw

On sale this month.

[Jimmy Harris]

The best saw, in my opinion if you only could have one, would be the Gyokucho 610, 240mm Ryoba. It's designed for hardwoods, but will cut softwoods just as well (so long as they're not too green or resinous). You can do anything from long rips to small dovetails with it. I have, anyway. And I actually prefer the crosscut side for dovetails and other detail work, as the tooth geometry isn't a traditional crosscut, so it actually rips fairly well this way without compromising crosscut work. It rips fast enough to be usable for long rips and the two-handed handle makes it easier on your body, which helps to make up for a lack of speed versus a dedicated rip saw. It has a thin, flexible blade that can also be used for flush cutting. Pretty much anything you'll need to cut up to about 4-5 inches thick, it will cut.

It's not the perfect saw. Part of being a "do-it-all" saw means it's not great at anything. My biggest complaint in on long rips it wants to wander. It's harder to control both the heel and toe on a long rip, so you spend a lot of time switching sides if you want it to cut straight. But that's the price you pay for a "do-it-all". And everything about its usage is different from a western saw, from the way you hold the work to the way you position your body, so if you're used to western saws, you might hate it (and all Japanese pull saws). And while I don't use mine much anymore, if I was limited to just one saw, that would be it, hands down.

[steven c newman]

Fine...until the time comes when you HAVE to sharpen that saw.....and no place around to buy a new blade/saw?

I'd take a pre-1928 Disston D-8 any day...maybe a 7 or 8 ppi? Good all-around saw...with a handle made to fit by people who knew how the handle was supposed to be made...90+years about

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22" long, 11ppi D8 from before the 1928 line-up changes. the "8" is inside the "D"....
Once you pick up one of these older saws by their handles....you just can't put them back down....

[Jimmy Harris]

Fine...until the time comes when you HAVE to sharpen that saw.....and no place around to buy a new blade/saw?

I'd take a pre-1928 Disston D-8 any day...maybe a 7 or 8 ppi? Good all-around saw...with a handle made to fit by people who knew how the handle was supposed to be made...90+years about

506081
22" long, 11ppi D8 from before the 1928 line-up changes. the "8" is inside the "D"....
Once you pick up one of these older saws by their handles....you just can't put them back down....
The blades last a long time and finding replacements online isn't hard. And you're right about the D-8 (and quite a few other old saws in the Disston lines) handle. And while they're great saws which I personally reach for far more often than my ryoba, they're not do-everything saws. They can cover a lot of ground with the right tooth geometry, but they just can't cover all of the ground like a ryoba can. I've never used a western saw that could rip 8/4 hard maple and cut dovetails in 1/2" pine. But the ryoba will, albiet with some difficulty. The ryoba I listed has an 8 ppi rip and 15 ppi hybrid tooth crosscut in one. Having two sets of teeth is just unfair.

Still, I'd much rather have a few good Disstons than a truckload of ryobas. But if we're talking about just one saw... well, you know my choice.

[Mike Allen1010]

The conceit of the OP's question is relevant and helpful, particularly for the beginning woodworker as sawing stock to dimension and joinery are arguably the fundamental tasks underlying all woodworking. Therefore reasonable question is what's the best tool for those jobs. I would argue because sawing is such a fundamental part of woodworking, trying to reduce it to one single tool is impractical and unrealistically limiting. I would argue there are two fundamental sawing tasks; dimensioning stock and joinery and both require very different saws for optimal performance.

To cut to the chase, I started with Japanese pull saws 40 years ago and although I like Dozuki's for joinery in thin stock, when it comes dimensioning rough lumber I've always found Asian saws to be much slower than Western hand saws. I'm sure there are others who disagree who are more capable than me. FWIW, The preindustrial woodworkers saw nest was built on 3 fundamental saws: 7-8 PPI crosscut for breaking down rough lumber, 10 – 12 PPI crosscut for finished dimensioning of pieces and a 5 1/2 PPI ripsaw. In addition, at least two backed saws filed in rip and crosscut were needed for joinery. This is kind of the basic starting point required for most aspects of woodworking. Typically multiple other saws that were optimized for other specific tasks were added to the saw nest as the woodworker skill improved. Maybe the same way many office workers began with Microsoft outlook and word and then progress into Excel and PowerPoint as your skills/job requirements increase.

Okay sorry that's way too much lecturing – my bad! If the question is what's the least you can get away with, my answer is 8 PPI crosscut in the truck for dimensioning rough lumber and a 12 PPI crosscut back saw that arguably could be used for most joinery in a pinch- sawing dovetails, and cheeks and shoulders for M&T's.

This is the kind of philosophical question that wouldn't matter to a preindustrial woodworker, they would never attempt to practice their trade with a single saw. Perhaps modern woodworkers are different. No shade for me – I always appreciate illuminating conversations about how saws, which are fundamental aspect of our craft are best utilized to make the most of our experience.

Cheers, Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Mike makes a good point that those looking for one saw are likely to be starting out. The OP specified “one saw to rule all”, and that is asking for an all rounder. As they say, a Jack of all trades but master of none.

It is relevant to point out that Japanese saws are cheap - which appeals to beginners - but only a small dozuki will suit a beginner: the thinner the plate, the wider the plate, and the less reinforcement (back) creates a flexibility that requires experience. Many beginners use such saws with a guide (such as for dovetails), but away from this support you are likely to mis-cut and break teeth. Stick to a Western saw in this case.

My earlier recommendation of the Gramercy Sash saw stands. But, as reported, you need to try out before you buy as different handles suit different people.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[andy bessette]

...Japanese saws are cheap...

Actually one can spend a good deal of money on a Japanese saw. But it is generally unnecessary, as quite good ones can be found at very reasonable prices.

[Derek Cohen]

My favourite dozuki is by Nakaya. Thin plate, rip. Cheap by any standards. Cuts like a hot knife through butter. Superior finish. Not for the inexperienced!

https://www.japanesetools.com.au/products/japanese-dozuki-saw-extra-fine-210mm-rip-cut

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

The conceit of the OP's question is relevant and helpful, particularly for the beginning woodworker as sawing stock to dimension and joinery are arguably the fundamental tasks underlying all woodworking. Therefore reasonable question is what's the best tool for those jobs. I would argue because sawing is such a fundamental part of woodworking, trying to reduce it to one single tool is impractical and unrealistically limiting. I would argue there are two fundamental sawing tasks; dimensioning stock and joinery and both require very different saws for optimal performance.

To cut to the chase, I started with Japanese pull saws 40 years ago and although I like Dozuki's for joinery in thin stock, when it comes dimensioning rough lumber I've always found Asian saws to be much slower than Western hand saws. I'm sure there are others who disagree who are more capable than me. FWIW, The preindustrial woodworkers saw nest was built on 3 fundamental saws: 7-8 PPI crosscut for breaking down rough lumber, 10 – 12 PPI crosscut for finished dimensioning of pieces and a 5 1/2 PPI ripsaw. In addition, at least two backed saws filed in rip and crosscut were needed for joinery. This is kind of the basic starting point required for most aspects of woodworking. Typically multiple other saws that were optimized for other specific tasks were added to the saw nest as the woodworker skill improved. Maybe the same way many office workers began with Microsoft outlook and word and then progress into Excel and PowerPoint as your skills/job requirements increase.

Okay sorry that's way too much lecturing – my bad! If the question is what's the least you can get away with, my answer is 8 PPI crosscut in the truck for dimensioning rough lumber and a 12 PPI crosscut back saw that arguably could be used for most joinery in a pinch- sawing dovetails, and cheeks and shoulders for M&T's.

This is the kind of philosophical question that wouldn't matter to a preindustrial woodworker, they would never attempt to practice their trade with a single saw. Perhaps modern woodworkers are different. No shade for me – I always appreciate illuminating conversations about how saws, which are fundamental aspect of our craft are best utilized to make the most of our experience.

Cheers, Mike

as far as rough stick, I think the ‘too slow’ comes from the fact that most places only carry* the 240mm models of Ryoba. The sizes tooth geometry generally corresponds to stock size. My 295mm rips through 4/4 quickly and my 180mm (iirc) is delicate enough for fine joinery.

* and thus most people use.