Custom Corbels - Curved Bevel Cut Guidance Needed

[Brandon Antoniewicz]

Revivingthis thread. I'm struggling with how to best complete my current project. I'mreplacing/refinishing the soffit and fascia of our 1870s workers cottage. Partof the project is replacing the historical detail to our fascia. I have everythingunder control except for the corbels.

Theexisting corbels (non-historical) are solidly made but are too large (14"deep x 5" wide x 17" tall) and do not follow the angle of theroofline (30-degrees) as is traditional with sloped roofs.

I'd love to repurpose these as much as possible but am unsure how to add a 30-degree cut/bevel (throughout) due to their width (5").


My first option is to use a jigsaw due to the curved/detailed nature of the cuts. I see both the required blade length (6”) and accuracy as issues.
My second option is a bandsaw. I’m not as familiar with bandsaws and am unsure if there is one that can handle both the size and angle needs (tilting table, etc.).
My third option is to build new custom corbels which would allow me to go the router route, via a 30-degree bevel bit. The downside, the largest cutting range I’ve found is 7/8” which means for 10 corbels @ 10” deep x 4.5” wide x 13” tall, I need 50 1” x 10” x 14” boards or ~200 linear feet (6 board glue-up per corbel). That is a lot of repetitive cuts and at $100 per 1” x 10” x 16’ board (red oak, Menards), pricey ones.
My last option is to outsource custom corbels but that is even pricier at $150+ per.

4 (really 3) options with pros, cons and challenges. Would love any thoughts/advice and/or guidance regarding better/best cutting options.

Thanks in advance.

[Tom M King]

How wide is the recessed part in the middle?

[Cameron Wood]

Might be able to get it with a jigsaw. There is a rasp blade available for a jigsaw that would help. Make templates- one for outside layers, one for inside layers. Build up inside from 3/4" stock and fair with a rasp. I don't see how a bevel router bit would work. Presumably left and right versions are needed. Making from oak sounds like a terrible idea. Extra stock for trials & errors will be needed. Wouldn't the originals be made from pine? Make a mock-up of both left & rights to test fit at each location, and use them to get the fit, avoiding multiple trips up & down ladder with finished pieces.

Personally, I think the non-beveled version looks pretty good, could be refined, & is way more doable.

Take precautions for lead paint.

[Jim Becker]

When I made some replacement corbels a few years ago for a local restoration project, I did the cutting on my CNC and things were built up from individual layers of 1.25" and 1" Extera exterior MDF. As to the angles you show in the first illustration, I'd build the center section as a block and just manually bevel the front/bottom to get the angle. The two surrounding pieces are merely different lengths. At the viewing distance, it would likely be hard to differentiate them from anything that's "fully beveled" like your annotation shows.

[Christopher Herzog]

Shot in the dark here, we were watching an episode of The Craftsman on HBO Max last night and I think they covered this process. They tilted the wood at their roof degrees on a shop made sled and cut them on a bandsaw. Might be worth a watch if you have access.

Chris

[Kevin Jenness]

The center of the "correct" corbel probably is made of wide moldings crosscut on an angle with beveled edges. You could get the same effect with a bandsaw, cutting the profile square to the edge of an 8" or so plank, then cutting the angles and sandwiching the result between the outer pieces, which also would be cut out on a bandsaw. A considerable amount of sanding would be involved, the difficulty of which would depend on the profile.

Red oak would not be my choice for painted exterior work, but nothing suitable is going to be inexpensive. Extira is probably the cheapest but quite abrasive and dusty to work with.

[Tony Leonard]

Wow, what a challenge you have there! Not sure I can help, but I was wondering if those were made on a shaper of sorts with a tilting table? Wondered if you could make a quick and dirty router table setup with a tilted table and use a template with a straight template bit to make all the shapes you need out of 3/4 stock, then glue stuff together? The center section could easily be sanded on a spindle sander with a tilting top ( I think HD has one that is affordable). You might could even rough the blanks and cut the straight sections using the template as well. I'm thinking out loud here, so forgive me if this is a stupid idea.

No easy or inexpensive solution here. I hope you let us know what/how you do this. I have to agree that red oak would no be my first choice. It is not weather resistant and is hard to work with. I'd sure hate to use pine or something else that could rot just as easy. I guess if it is primed and painted and maintained, it might work ok. I've just had real bad luck with pine trim. Mahogany would be great if was just a few!

Good luck with it. Probably a neat house based on the level of trim.

Tony (who lives in suburbia where we have no such fancy woodwork - bummer -and all the trim is cheap pine that rots at every joint and knot!)

[Mel Fulks]

1870s. That was a wild and wooly era. Typical eccentric exuberance . Looks like the real stuff. I would take them down , clean ‘em up
paint them ,put them back .

[Robert M Richardson]

Not knowing what tools you have it's hard to make suggestions but I acquired a bandsaw a year or so ago and have found it very handy but I have a jointer / planer to prepare stock. It looks like you have some decorative cutouts in the corner which a band saw might handle.

You mentioned routing, one possibility is to have a custom router bit made. I had that done a number of years ago to match some contours in my old house. I believe I used these folks https://www.vexorcwt.com/custom-router-bits but there are other options. If you plan on making a pattern which seems to me to be the way to go make sure you specify a bearing.

As far as material is concerned red oak as others have said is a poor choice for outdoors. White is much better but more expensive, blame aging of wine and whisky in barrels . I ran across this stuff Accoya | Acetylated Wood | Modified Wood, treated wood, Accoya (https://www.accoya.com/) while I was thinking about this. I don't know anything about it but it may be interesting to you.
Good luck
Robert

[Jared Sankovich]

The router (or shaper) won't work as you would need a router with a 12-18" bit. The jigsaw has the same issue. You need to hold the stock at the rake angle to make the cut. Tilting the table won't work as the plumb cuts would be at the rake angle.

Basically it will require a large bandsaw and a fixture to hold the stock at desired angle.

All the cuts are vertical at that point.
503179

And if you need any new top moulding it's likely 3 different profiles.
503180

[Brandon Antoniewicz]

How wide is the recessed part in the middle?

The existing corbels are 4" wide. If I were to rebuild, the center would be 3".

[Brandon Antoniewicz]

Thanks for the advice Cameron. I'll do some research on jigsaw rasp blades. I don't have access to the original corbels (the photo is of my neighbor's) but yeah, I would guess they where made from pine, albeit a much higher quality/denser version. I didn't consider the left/right issue of the cutter. I was thinking I'd just flip the board over for the opposite side corbels. A rasp is a good option to consider.

Agreed regarding testing and fitting. I'm building up the fascia on the ground so have easy acesses.

[Brandon Antoniewicz]

Thanks Jim. My base plan is similar; e.g., build the interiors first and then the outer shells/framing. Do you happen to have any photos of what you're suggesting regarding beveling only the exterior framing? I feel like it would be distinguishable if the inner piece isn't beveled as well. Our home is small (27' at the roof peak) and only 25' off the sidewalk - city dwelling. Full angles are something that I've paid attention to when walking the neighborhood (historic district) and looking at other corbel instances.

[Brandon Antoniewicz]

When I made some replacement corbels a few years ago for a local restoration project, I did the cutting on my CNC and things were built up from individual layers of 1.25" and 1" Extera exterior MDF. As to the angles you show in the first illustration, I'd build the center section as a block and just manually bevel the front/bottom to get the angle. The two surrounding pieces are merely different lengths. At the viewing distance, it would likely be hard to differentiate them from anything that's "fully beveled" like your annotation shows.


Thanks Jim. My base plan is similar; e.g., build the interiors first and then the outer shells/framing. Do you happen to have any photos of what you're suggesting regarding beveling only the exterior framing? I feel like it would be distinguishable if the inner piece isn't beveled as well. Our home is small (27' at the roof peak) and only 25' off the sidewalk - city dwelling. Full angles are something that I've paid attention to when walking the neighborhood (historic district) and looking at other corbel instances.

[Jared Sankovich]

The problem with using anything other than an inclined fixture is that the angle is not consistent across the face of the cut (in relation to the face of the board) if the rake angle is 30 degrees then the angle will vary between 90 and 120 depending on the orientation.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks Jim. My base plan is similar; e.g., build the interiors first and then the outer shells/framing. Do you happen to have any photos of what you're suggesting regarding beveling only the exterior framing? I feel like it would be distinguishable if the inner piece isn't beveled as well. Our home is small (27' at the roof peak) and only 25' off the sidewalk - city dwelling. Full angles are something that I've paid attention to when walking the neighborhood (historic district) and looking at other corbel instances.

I think you might be able to get away to just bevel the front/bottom of the center section so it follows the roof slope and then do the side pieces like the ones in a photo above that are staggered in length. Do a mock up with scrap to test the visuals and be sure to look at them from a reasonable distance so it mimics "real life" when the replacements are installed. Obviously all of the corbels on the gable need to be matching. Mixing old and new will make differences stand out, especially if there is this minor "cheat" in play. If you do feel you need the bevel to follow the whole center section, it may call for some interesting cutting at the bandsaw with the table and workpiece at angles.

[Robert M Richardson]

Nice post, a picture's worth a thousand words as they say. It sure helps me picture the challenge of this project more clearly.
Robert

[Bert McMahan]

OK I've been trying to figure out if this would work but I think it would. The issue with jigsaws and bandsaws is that you have to spin the piece around to cut the curves, which changes the angle. As others have mentioned, you need the angle to stay the same relative to the cut plane.

What about this- cut the pattern onto the three pieces squarely (i.e., no taper), then use a spindle sander with a tilting table to add the miter? You'd have to sand a LOT of material, but you can keep the orientation of the piece at the same orientation to the tilted table the whole time since the "cutter" (i.e., sanding drum) cuts from all sides.

Since you have a lot to do, you could get a Robo Sander (http://www.luthiersfriend.com/robosander/robosander.html) which is a drill press spindle sander with a guide bearing. You could make a stick-on template and just sand the bevel into each piece, then glue them together.

I think that works in my head... someone prove me wrong :)

[Bradley Gray]

The layers can easily be cut on a band saw by making a pitch block to sit under the blanks on the band saw table. The pitch block moves with the blank and maintains the tilt angle.

[Bert McMahan]

The layers can easily be cut on a band saw by making a pitch block to sit under the blanks on the band saw table. The pitch block moves with the blank and maintains the tilt angle.

I believe the issue here is that he would need a bandsaw with a 12" cut capacity since these parts are so big. I assume he doesn't have one of those otherwise we probably wouldn't be talking about it :)