Clifton 5 1/2 spare blade twisted

[Haitham Jaber]

Hi,

Some days ago, I bought a Clifton 60mm spare blade, for a Clifton 5 1/2 that I already own and that I use for long sessions planing rough stock. When I checked if it mated with the chipbreaker, I noticed some light passing through one corner. With the screw tightened I have 0.07mm (3thou) on the high corner. I attached some images below.
I checked the flatness of the whole blade face on a reference surface and I noticed a twist. If I just lay it on the surface I can slide over 0.15mm (6thou) feeler gauge underneath the high corner. If I push on the diagonally opposite corner on the back of the blade I can slide 0.40mm so I would say that there is aroud 0.15 to 0.20mm of average twist between a corner and the diagonally opposite corner (like a twisted lumber to give you an idea).
The blade I already have is not twisted and mates perfectly with the chipbreaker.


My first idea was to grind on a coarse sandpaper (on a float glass or whatever) the hole face to get rid of that 0.20mm of material in the middle (honestly I don't know how much would it take and usually with a convex surface is really difficult because I'll be rocking on a bump and I may get the things worst). Then I was thinking about smithing the blade a bit with a hammer, even if I don't have the skills and experience to do that. I still haven't done anything anyway.


I called Clifton for a technical suggestion and they told me to give it a try first because the lever cap may press the chipbreaker on the blade and flatten that twist. And they also told me that a very perfectly flat blade
is less likely to be found, even if they are stress relieved.

I still didn't try it because, honestly, I'm afraid to copy the twist to the chipbreaker, but maybe this is
more a fear do to both inexperience and obsessive nature.
To be honest, the idea that the lever cap pushes the blade and chipbreaker together on the flat frog
making them mate works in my mind, also because it happens with a Stanley no.11 that I use as a
scrub and that has little twisted irons in it, but works like a charm.

What do you think of the subject?

Thanks,
Haitham, Rome

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[William Fretwell]

I had the opposite with my Clifton 5 1/2. The chip breaker would not align with the flat blade. The gap collected wood, did not work. They sent me a new chip breaker which fixed the problem.
I think you need the blade replaced, you buy a premium tool to use not fix.

[Haitham Jaber]

Thank you for your reply.
They told me that now they know the issue and wouldn't have problems replacing it if I try to fix it and it doesn't work. So I will try to fix it. Other suggestions?

Thanks

[William Fretwell]

Replace it, use your time to make something!

[Jim Koepke]

So many things to consider.

On some older blades that are laminated it has been possible to put them in a vise and apply a bit of torque to get them to set right.

If it is a high spot or a band, thin strips of abrasive paper mounted on a good flat surface can help to overcome the problem of rocking on a hump.

Also an extra chip breaker can be tuned to this blade if it seats well in the plane body. Do you have an extra frog to check for this?

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

You're measuring against the side that goes up. If you want to measure anything, the other side is probably more relevant.

I'd sharpen the blade, assemble the plane and test it on a board. If shavings get trapped or ge5 chatter, I'd get the iron and chipbreaker replaced.

[Haitham Jaber]

You're measuring against the side that goes up. If you want to measure anything, the other side is probably more relevant.

It's really interesting what you told me but, please, could you explain me or at least could someone explain me what does that mean? I'm measuring the gap at its highest point trying not to push it higher with the for gauge that can act as a wedge. Laying the blade on a reference surface i'd measure where a feeler gauge could fit. Do you mean I should use a dial test indicator and measure it from upside?

I'm afraid to crook the chipbreaker against a crooked blade. I don't want to put stress on a perfectly writing chipbreaker

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

I had a similar issue with an LN no. 4 - only with the chipbreaker. Since i am relatively new at this, i was worried that I was the problem. 2 years later and zero issues with my No. 8, or my stanley no. 5 with a veritas chipbreaker. 2+ years and LN simply sent me a new chipbreaker. Works like a dream now.

I think companies like Lie Nielsen have raised the bar in customer service. If you are going to buy premium, you really shouldnt have to fettle it beyond a polishing stone.

[Haitham Jaber]

I had a similar issue with an LN no. 4 - only with the chipbreaker. Since i am relatively new at this, i was worried that I was the problem. 2 years later and zero issues with my No. 8, or my stanley no. 5 with a veritas chipbreaker. 2+ years and LN simply sent me a new chipbreaker. Works like a dream now.

I think companies like Lie Nielsen have raised the bar in customer service. If you are going to buy premium, you really shouldnt have to fettle it beyond a polishing stone.

Yes, even if I love fixing things, I'm following this route unless I'll find an easiest way to sort this out. Anyway
I have a lot of projects and I know that if I don't apply ther right procedure I will be spending a whole day with it.
Anyway, I would like to ask all of you if it's incorrect what I did, that is choosing a second spare blade
to use with the same chipbreaker? Should I have bought also a second chipbreaker? (that unless going with Juuma, it's money)


If it is a high spot or a band, thin strips of abrasive paper mounted on a good flat surface can help to overcome the problem of rocking on a hump
This is a great tip. Never thought about that.

Here I put a picture of the areas that are raised and that I checked following what Rafael Herrera told me was the wrong method of measuring. Herrera what did you mean?

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[John Keeton]

I find it strange that Clifton told you a flat blade “is less likely to be found” when you apparently have one. I would have sent the warped one back and asked for a flat functional blade. I would not have attempted a fix.

[glenn bradley]

I find it strange that Clifton told you a flat blade “is less likely to be found” when you apparently have one. I would have sent the warped one back and asked for a flat functional blade. I would not have attempted a fix.

Bingo. (extra characters)

[Haitham Jaber]

Well, at this point, I think I will follow this route and ask for a replacement.
Still never attempted a fix.

Thank you all for your expert advice. Anyway a lot of things can happen from factory to end user.
I guess, most of all, incorrect transport and incorrect long term storage, but I also think that even
if stress relieved and then remilled, also steel can be unpredictable.
I also own a couple of premium diamond stones. Are they flat? No and I assumed
they were flat for a long period of time but then I checked them with a straight edge.
But maybe we are becoming all too much obsessed about perfection. Don't we?

Thanks,
Haitham

[Jason Buresh]

But maybe we are becoming all too much obsessed about perfection. Don't we?

Thanks,
Haitham

To be completely honest I probably would never have checked the iron with a feeler gauge, would have sharpened the iron and got to work. If I ran into problems I would then start diagnosing what went wrong.

At least in my opinion, if you bought genuine replacement parts from the manufacturer and not knock offs and they negatively affect the chipbreaker or other parts to the point the plane is unusable then it's up to them to send you new parts or a new plane. But you'll never know if that thousandths of an inch makes a difference if you don't try.

Again, just my opinion.

[Haitham Jaber]

To be completely honest I probably would never have checked the iron with a feeler gauge, would have sharpened the iron and got to work. If I ran into problems I would then start diagnosing what went wrong.

At least in my opinion, if you bought genuine replacement parts from the manufacturer and not knock offs and they negatively affect the chipbreaker or other parts to the point the plane is unusable then it's up to them to send you new parts or a new plane. But you'll never know if that thousandths of an inch makes a difference if you don't try.

Again, just my opinion.

Thank you Jason, I will take your opinion into account. I just checked with a feeler gauge because the gap between the chipbreaker and the iron was fairly noticeable. Anyway that doesn't mean I'm not OCD.

[Jason Buresh]

Thank you Jason, I will take your opinion into account. I just checked with a feeler gauge because the gap between the chipbreaker and the iron was fairly noticeable. Anyway that doesn't mean I'm not OCD.

My apologies I must have misunderstood then. You definitely do not want a gap there

[Haitham Jaber]

My apologies I must have misunderstood then. You definitely do not want a gap there

Don't worry!