Which table saw should i keep

[Robert Weinstein]

I have been using an approximately 30 year old Delta contractor saw (model 34-445) with a Delta Unifence for about three years. The Delta has a 66" table (pieces added by a previous owner) with 46" to the right of the blade. It seems to work well. However, it does not have a riving knife. I added a pull up splitter, but it is very cumbersome to use and seems to come out of alignment with the blade. The tape viewer is old and hard to read through and as I use it the portion of the fence that grabs the fence rails comes loose after a while.

I now have the opportunity to replace it with a Laguna Fusion table saw (apparently an earlier model, before the 1,2,3 designations, described here https://www.woodcraft.com/products/laguna-10-fusion-1-3-4hp-36-fence-cast-iron-wings-with-riving-knife ) at a very attractive price so that after selling the Delta I would only be out about $ 200-300.

The Laguna is attractive as it has a riving knife, cabinet mounted trunnion, a square shaped fence (so using fence attachments is much easier,) a much more easy to read tape scale viewer, and dust collection. The Laguna has a 44" wide table, with about 24" to the right of the blade, with a back rail and fence rail that extend further so I think I could add to the right side of the table. The fence goes 36" to the right of the blade.
The Laguna is 1.75hp versus 1.5 hp for the Delta and both can run single phase 220 if I ever upgraded my work area electric.

I would say I am an advanced beginner/intermediate work worker and hope to get a lot better.

What are your thoughts on which saw should I keep?

Thanks very much.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

I added a pull up splitter, but it is very cumbersome to use and seems to come out of alignment with the blade.

The Laguna is attractive as it has a riving knife,

For me the decision would be easy, safety first.

[Patrick Kane]

Hey Robert, i had a similar model to your Delta for a couple years when i first started setting up my shop. I think mine was the 34-444, but it also had the unifence. I really liked the saw and loved the fence, but the table mounted trunnion system was always coming out of calibration every few months. It was tedious to check and update the alignment.

If i read it correctly, the laguna appears to be one of the 'hybrid' designs that become popular 5-10 years ago. Not a true cabinet saw, but a step up from the historic contractor saw design. Hanging the internals from the cabinet makes alignment much easier, and they typically hold settings much longer/better. For example, i had a delta unisaw for a couple years after the 34-444, and i set it up once and never had to re-align it again. I would compare the weight of the two as another metric of how well the saw should hold its settings. The laguna looks like it weighs 276lbs. I doubt my former delta 34-444 weighed that much. I remember two guys could pick that saw up and move it relatively easily.

Finally, i think the Laguna offers more creature comforts over the delta. You mentioned the riving knife/splitter, but i think dust collection will be a big improvement with the laguna. The dc was just fine with the 34-444, but that is because i had a 6" port directly under the blade with a 3hp cyclone moving a bunch of air. A powerful enough dc system can compensate for a poor tool design when it comes to dust collection. I think the wear and tear on your current saw are more than enough reason to spend the $200-300 and upgrade to a newer and better machine.

[John TenEyck]

If the Delta holds its alignment and can easily pivot to 45 degrees with the blade still parallel to the miter slot, then I don't see a big reason to upgrade. I have a splitter on my old Unisaw and it stays in alignment with the blade; I don't see why yours wouldn't if you align it properly. A splitter is not as good as a riving knife but keeps wood from pinching the blade in most circumstances. Dust collection on my old Sears saw, not that much different than your Delta, is fine once I installed a box under the saw to connect the DC hose.

If the blade will not easily tilt over to 45 degrees or stay aligned to the miter slot, like my Sears, I would get rid of it and go with the Laguna. Better still, I'd look for a true cabinet saw. Better still would be a SawStop. Whatever you do, use a guard!

John

[Robert Weinstein]

thanks to all of you. Much help.

[lou Brava]

IMO, for 200 bucks upgrade how can you go wrong there !
But also IMO a better upgrade would be to a 3hp cabinet saw. I upgraded to a 2hp "hybird" saw & it's great but after 2 years with it I wish I woulda spent a bit more & got 3hp saw.

[Mike Kees]

Personally I would wait and upgrade to a real cabinet saw down the road. That saw may be better in some ways but it is not really that big of a step up. You would probably end up upgrading twice.

[Dave Sabo]

Were you aware that square extrusions are available for the unifence ?
You can get a new viewer window and adjust / replace the locking hardware too.

Not a lot to be done about the dust collection or rather lack of it, but it can be greatly improved with a lot of effort.

As much as I love Delta contractor saws , I’m with Lou on the might as well get a new(er) saw for 200 bucks.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Robert,

While i appreciate the fact you have a nice saw (with a nice fence) with your contractors saw, if you were thinking of an upgrade i'd suggest you get a lightly used cabinet saw with at least a 3 HP, 230 Volt motor. The difference in power as compared to a contractors saw is day and night. The sawmill creek classified section is a good place to buy a used tool.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[Robert Weinstein]

thanks again, 220 is currently out of the question. not aware of the square attachment for the Unifence.

[Jim Becker]

If I were in your position, even if I changed saws, I'd want to keep the UniFence. I much prefer a high/low fence arrangement for functionality and safety. I actually use my high/low fence mostly in the low position because of both the visual clearance and physical clearance for push block/sticks. And as folks have pointed out, there are solutions available for when you really need a "square" fence for fixturing. But that's me...and this is a subjective thing.

I also don't think you're going to gain much by going with another 120v saw over what you have unless the current saw doesn't stay in adjustment, etc.

[Ron Selzer]

I bought a Delta Contractors saw new in 1985, replaced a JCPenny table saw, definitely a step up. In 2015 bought a SawStop ICS 5hp with all options using an inheritance from grandparents. Very much a step up.
Bu the Laguna with the trunnions, dust collection and riving knife. Upgrade when the opportunity is there, not everyone can afford to go to the final tool quickly.
You only have 120vac available now so you can't buy a big saw with 220vac needed now. As time goes by you can upgrade again and appreciate the new tool for it's advantages at that time.
Don't stay with something you don't care for when you have the chance to upgrade just because there is something better out there that you can't afford, doesn't fit your shop or someone tries to shame you.
Good luck
Ron

[Dave Sabo]

Better still, I'd look for a true cabinet saw. Better still would be a SawStop. Whatever you do, use a guard!


i'd suggest you get a lightly used cabinet saw with at least a 3 HP, 230 Volt motor. The difference in power as compared to a contractors saw is day and night. .


Fellas, I know you mean well, but in this instance this advice is a waste of bandwidth. Following your logic, it'd be even mo better for Robert to get a slider. Moreso with a 10ft+ stroke. Even better than that would be a Felder with the PCS blade safety feature.

"Don't be ridiculous" you say ? Well, advocating he get a saw that doesn't exist around him now and might not for a while (or ever) - and even if it did wouldn't run at his shop cause of the power restrictions - is just as crazy. Then there's the cost differential. Sure, a Felder PCS is crazy money but I'll be willing to bet the cabinet saw scenario wouldn't happen for him @ +$2-300 either ! Think he'll ever find a sawstop priced at $300 bucks more than he get for his old Delta ? And let's not forget the "opportunity" cost associated with waiting. Presumably the laguna can be up and running next week. The yet to be discovered cabinet saw...............who knows when ? Plus, most cabinets saws won't have the dust collection performance of the Laguna, though they'll be better than the contractor saw. Nor do they have riving knives - all things that Robert mentioned he'd like to have or are issues with his current saw.


also don't think you're going to gain much by going with another 120v saw over what you have unless the current saw doesn't stay in adjustment, etc.

While it would seem so at first glance, let's see what $2-$300 might get Robert that he doesn't have now:
-A square fence that locks tight with a clear measuring window
-built in mobility kit
-Riving knife
-a bit more horsepower- that still runs on 110v
-a blade guard w/dust collection (assuming it still around)
- an enclosed blade dust path with a 4" hose connection


None are likely showstoppers but collectively I'll bet Robert values them at more than $200-300. What if the question he asked was whether he should buy an old contractor saw for $300 -or- a Fusion for $5-$600 ? Would you tell him to go with the contractor saw ? Have you never made and incremental tool upgrade just to have something better than you currently do even if it's just for the near term ?



thanks again, 220 is currently out of the question. not aware of the square attachment for the Unifence.

https://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_unifence.html

[Rod Sheridan]

I would keep the Unifence and install it on the Laguna saw.

The Unifence is safer and more versatile than the typical North American fence

A riving knife, blade guard and Unifence provide exceptional protection from kickback……Regards, Rod

[Dave Sabo]

I would keep the Unifence and install it on the Laguna saw.


If he does that , then he's paying full price for the fusion saw. Still might be worth it, but perhaps not. It's certainly not the low cost upgrade that started this thread.

[Mike Cutler]

I would keep both.
I have pretty much the same setup you have, a hybrid, and a contractor saw.
The configuration that I have, has my Jet contractor saw acting as the outfield table for my General 220 hybrid saw, but it is oriented 90 degrees to the blade of the General. What this also allows me to do is have a very stable outfield table, and when I need to do cross cuts in longer material, I can use the General to support the weight of the wood, as I cross cut on the Jet. The fence of the Jet is not installed, and hasn't been in 20 years. This setup also allows me to have a saw setup for rip, and one setup for crosscuts, eliminating blade changes.
Every table saw, minus a slider, needs an outfield table. What better outfield table than another tablesaw.

Yes, a 3HP+ cabinet saw is definitely nice, and I would like one, but I have done some pretty big, and heavy, work with the two saws I have. If a person is primarily pushing 4/4 stock, and 3/4" plywood, through a saw, the two saws you have will serve them for a lifetime.

[Tom Bussey]

Just a note to Delta contractor saws. If you replace the factory bolts with grade 3 or grade 5 bolts, the saw going out of alignment problems will go away. You get bolt stretch with the common hardware bolts. Grade 3 and 5 bolts are hardened and do not stretch. I would tighten the bolts release them and retighten them. I had a delta saw, I changed bolts, and my saw stayed in alignment for 4 years until I sold it. Hybrid saw were not on the market at the time so I went straight to a cabinet saw.

I have since bought another Delta contractor saw, replaced the bolts and installed an Excalibur sliding table and I have not adjusted the a saw in 15 years. Like Mike I have two saws. But not a lot of people have room for two saws,. I am fortune enough to have the room. Don't try to justify the purchase if you want it just get it.

I own a 3 HP Saw Stop now. It is the best saw I have ever had, I sold a General 350 to get it. It is the last saw I will ever own. I like it that so much. It is not a big deal to go from 115 to 220 volts so I wouldn't let that be a factor. Personally I would bit the bullet and go straight to a new cabinet saw and skip the Hybrid.

[Rod Sheridan]

If he does that , then he's paying full price for the fusion saw. Still might be worth it, but perhaps not. It's certainly not the low cost upgrade that started this thread.

I assumed he would put the other fence on the Delta saw and sell it……Regards, Rod.

[Dave Sabo]

I assumed he would put the other fence on the Delta saw and sell it……Regards, Rod.


Even if he does that, it makes his Delta Contractor Saw less marketable/valuable and the upgrade costs more expensive.

[Rod Sheridan]

Even if he does that, it makes his Delta Contractor Saw less marketable/valuable and the upgrade costs more expensive.

True, however he winds up with a better and safer saw.

As in all things, it’s always a compromise……Regards, Rod

[Charles Lent]

Are you all aware that a Delta Contractor Saw motor is capable of 2 hp when connected for 240 volt power, but only 1.5 hp when connected for 120 volt power? Delta had these motors specially made so they could be used on a 15 amp 120 volt circuit when on the jobsite, but would provide a full 2 hp when connected to 240 volt power back in the contractor's shop.

The Unifence is much sought after and could be sold for about $200 or more if in good condition, even on it's own without the saw. Also, Peachtree Woodworking www.ptreeusa.com sells a square fence extrusion to fit the main Unifence casting. It has T Slots and a UHMW rub strip. I have one and switch fence shapes depending on my need, as the original fence has many benefits, but no T Slots.

For the ruler scale, you can buy replacement scales, or you can add a Wixey Digital Read-out to your existing Unifence. This will work with both the original fence extrusion or the Uni-T-Fence from Peachtree. Going digital for my woodworking was a complete game changer. My work always fits together now.

If you really feel that this other saw is an upgrade, switch the Unifence to this new saw and put the other on the Contractor Saw. This will, at least, give you the ability to enhance this Unifence with the fence upgrades that I have suggested. I have used a lot of saws and fences, and the best that I've ever used was a Unifence, especially after making these upgrades to it.

Charley

[Dave Sabo]

Are you all aware that a Delta Contractor Saw motor is capable of 2 hp when connected for 240 volt power………….

The Unifence is much sought after and could be sold for about $200 or more if in good condition………

For the ruler scale, you can buy replacement scales,…………….

If you really feel that this other saw is an upgrade, switch the Unifence to this new saw and put the other on the Contractor Saw.……………

Charley


Guess you didn’t read any of the previous posts :confused:

the ones in which :

- the o.p told us he doesn’t have 240v

- the one in which the uni-t-fence was already hotlinked

- the one in which the value of the unifence was broached

- and the one where it was already suggested he swap the fences :rolleyes:

You also (presumably) don’t take into account budget. There’s always a better upgrade to be had , even better than your suggestion………….but at what cost ? See the previous comment on how a slider would be even better. This was a simple ask about whether the hive thought the Laguna was worth 2-300 bucks to solve some issues the o.p. had; not a broad “what would be better than a delta cs for $500, $5000, or $50,000 “

When you’re spending other people’s money it’s easy to “ya might as well” upgrade them to something bigger, better, shinier, safer, faster , and more prestigious. It all starts with : “do this, it’ll only cost a few hundred more”. Rod , this is part of my issue with your suggestion. The other is that not everyone thinks the unifence (or other hi/low) fences are the bees knees.

[Robert Weinstein]

Thanks again to all of you. If i like the way the Laguna cuts i will keep it.