Any options for a small bevel gauge?

[Dean Arthur]

Seems like the last decent option for a small bevel gauge at Blue Spruce is no longer available. Previously Vesper was the gold standard but he's no longer accepting orders.

I use the Shinwa with the bottom locking screw and it's pretty good. I also ordered the folding Shinwa with the knurled brass knob at the blade and immediately sent it back - it wouldn't hold the blade securely at all so made the tool worthless. I know Pec and Starrett have t-bevel gauges, but again, they're on the larger size and have the issue of using a slot to connect them vs a simple hole.

Crucible has a new bevel gauge out, but it's also on the larger size and I wouldn't want to have to always use a screwdriver to have to set it in any event.

So was curious if there was any hope for a decent, small bevel gauge - ideally with a bottom locking screw?

Vintage gauges are all typically on the larger size (8-10"). I did see one vintage gauge that was ideal - https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/awesome-miniature-3-1-2-inch-bevel-gauge-89758u - but out of stock and would be nice if it wasn't more than a new LN bronze no. 4?? ;)

Honestly it doesn't seem like anyone is making any reasonable bevel gauge these days except the aforementioned Shinwa. Strange - but would love to be proven wrong. Happy to hear any thoughts. I occasionally make my own tools, but I'm not particularly gifted at it.

[Tony Wilkins]

Has BS completely dropped them or are they just not making them now since they went to the stupid woodpecker build system?

[Edward Weber]

You might like these
https://vespertools.com.au/sliding-bevels/

[Tony Wilkins]

You might like these
https://vespertools.com.au/sliding-bevels/
But he’s no longer accepting orders on them.

[Cameron Wood]

I also make do with Shinwa, and traditional wood handle ones,

but I agree they could be improved. The Shinwa needs a screwdriver to hold the setting reliably.

[Kent A Bathurst]

So was curious if there was any hope for a decent, small bevel gauge - ideally with a bottom locking screw?


I'm with you, Dean. I couldn't get myself in the right place to spend that much $$ on the Vesper or the B Spruce, but - man - I came very close a couple times. I've searched a lot and never found a small one. When you do, please give us a heads up.



..... the stupid ...... system?

They speak highly of you, Tony :)

May we assume you were a regular customer of Blue Spruce back in the day, and are now dissatisfied with the products or service? Which are your favorite Blue Spruce tools? I've got several I really like. Be interested in your evaluation of your hoard.

I've never bought from Woodpecker, only because I wasn't looking for a product they had to offer. Apparently they've been petty doggone successful with their business model. Which would seem to indicate non-stupid. But I may be wrong about that.

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm with you, Dean. I couldn't get myself in the right place to spend that much $$ on the Vesper or the B Spruce, but - man - I came very close a couple times. I've searched a lot and never found a small one. When you do, please give us a heads up.


They speak highly of you, Tony :)

May we assume you were a regular customer of Blue Spruce back in the day, and are now dissatisfied with the products or service? Which are your favorite Blue Spruce tools? I've got several I really like. Be interested in your evaluation of your hoard.

I've never bought from Woodpecker, only because I wasn't looking for a product they had to offer. Apparently they've been petty doggone successful with their business model. Which would seem to indicate non-stupid. But I may be wrong about that.

Perhaps not stupid but definitely inconvenient. I have a couple of bench chisels, three long paring chisels, a skew set, a large and small bevel square, the bevel setting block they had a while back, and most recently a square mallet. All of the products have been top notch. Probably would have had a full set of bench chisels but there was a problem with him getting them when I would have ordered. This was back in the day when Dave Jeske would answer the emails. My problem with the system is that unless you happen to need a tool when they’re producing it you’re in for a long wait. The small bevel came quickly because I ordered it when they were in a run of them. The square mallet took months because I had to wait for it to be in a run. The three tools I’ve ordered since the changeover have all seemed to be well made if that makes a difference.

[Jim Koepke]

I occasionally make my own tools, but I'm not particularly gifted at it.

This may be your best bet for finding on that is affordable. The smallest Stanley made appears to be 6".

I made something similar:

501330

This was to help keep a file at the same angle when sharpening crosscut saws. It wouldn't be too difficult to make one as a bevel gauge.

jtk

[Dean Arthur]

It seems to be a hole in the market - both currently and historically for some reason.

I use my smaller squares much more than my larger squares, and have been struggling to find anything comparable for bevel gauges. A larger bevel gauge is good for construction, but not ideal for fine woodworking or tool setup.

I recently had a small project that had a multitude of angles, and the 8" Shinwa bevel gauge was a bit awkward due to its size, and I only had the one - so got me back to looking for an option. That said, I really do appreciate a company like Shinwa for making tools that are quality but also reasonable. I love their aluminum engineer squares as they're light, cheap and accurate - same for their brass ones.

Not sure if BS stopped making them or not - just noticed last time earlier in the year I checked and it was a long lead time. Checking more recently it seems all the info has been scrubbed from their website so it doesn't look good. It's a shame because there are countless scraper, chisel, mallet, etc. makers - but seem to be a dearth of bevel gauge makers.

Ran across this home made one https://www.jroadman.com/instruments/sliding-bevel-gauge/ - seems like he was running into a similar issue finding something...

[Tony Wilkins]

If there’s a consistent angle you are working to then you can always make a ‘square’ to that angle. Think like a dove tail marker.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have several home made, small adjustable bevels made from simple materials, Formica and popsicle sticks. Nothing fancy but perfectly functional. I also have several great big ones that are super helpful for stair rails, house sheeting & siding, tub surrounds etc. Making a nice one would be a fun project and good use for small bits of nice wood.

501337

this one is cute
Miniature Sliding Bevel 100mm, stainless ✓ German Qualtiy ✓ (https://www.shop-schilbach.net/en/p/schilbach-miniature-sliding-bevel-100mm-stainless)

A simple plan that could scaled down
Engineer sliding T bevel plan | Craftsmanspace (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-projects/engineer-sliding-t-bevel-plan.html)

and the big ugly homemade ones
501355

[Kent A Bathurst]

Perhaps not stupid but definitely inconvenient. I have a couple of bench chisels, three long paring chisels, a skew set, a large and small bevel square, the bevel setting block they had a while back, and most recently a square mallet. All of the products have been top notch. Probably would have had a full set of bench chisels but there was a problem with him getting them when I would have ordered. This was back in the day when Dave Jeske would answer the emails. My problem with the system is that unless you happen to need a tool when they’re producing it you’re in for a long wait. The small bevel came quickly because I ordered it when they were in a run of them. The square mallet took months because I had to wait for it to be in a run. The three tools I’ve ordered since the changeover have all seemed to be well made if that makes a difference.

I’ll give you inconvenient. There’s a plus side though - that delay has kept me from a couple quick buys when frustrated.

Good to hear quality maintained at Red Spruce

Thanks for your insight

[Tony Wilkins]

I looked up the Crucible one. It says that it’s small with a 4” blade. Iirc, that’s the same size as the smaller BS one.

[Jim Ritter]

Lee Valley used to have one in the four inch range (I’d have to measure mine to be sure) but I didn’t see it in the online catalog. It was nice with a laminated wood body.
What size are you looking for? I might have one to part with.
Jim

[Charles Guest]

Crown Tools used to make one. I think they still do.

[Derek Cohen]

Charles is correct. This is a store in Oz ...

https://www.timbecon.com.au/crown-100mm-sliding-bevel

Note that is in AUD. Much cheaper in USD.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

I looked up the Crucible one. It says that it’s small with a 4” blade. Iirc, that’s the same size as the smaller BS one.

When I visited Lost art Press earlier this month I had occasion to check this bevel out. It's gorgeous. Fit and finish is excellent and the tactile element is really nice. For a small bevel it has some nice heft to it. The mechanism is very clever.

That said, I'd rather not need to use a screwdriver to lock the bevel. The mechanism, while clever, seems much like a really cool solution that's looking for a problem. It's pretty spendy too.

I have a collection of Stanley #18 Bevels in various sizes. I've seen them as small as 6". I really like the locking mechanisms as they stay out of the way. Solid as a rock too. I don't think I gave more than $20 for any of these.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50787561982_c8d1f40ff5_c.jpg

[Jack Dover]

iGaging makes a 6" bevel gauge which is a copy of a BC gauge or some other boutique maker. It needs some edge softening and such (something you would you expect for 18$), but it works great, the lock is dead tight and the gauge is quite thin. This is the smallest one sold I've seen, if a smaller one is needed I would think about making my own from some soft metal and wood.

Shinwa, btw, expects you tighten theirs with a screwdriver or a coin according to their manual. It was explained that a bevel gauge stays locked in one position until a project is over. From practical standpoint it's a good tip: it's better to own several gauges, set bevels once at the beginning of a project, maybe mark them with a painter's tape and keep them separate in something like a box or a drawer. Get a another gauge for any new bevel. Same applies to marking gauges, and if this becomes a habit, even wedged gauges stop being a hassle.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Charles is correct. This is a store in Oz ...

https://www.timbecon.com.au/crown-100mm-sliding-bevel

Note that is in AUD. Much cheaper in USD.

Regards from Perth

Derek


$20 Rockler.

[Cameron Wood]

Here's something...

https://www.amazon.com/Sliding-Protractor-Adjustable-Carpenter-Woodworking/dp/B0BXSKP7G2/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3GTV04LG8YLXD&keywords=4%22+bevel+gauge&qid=1684168276&sprefix=4+bevel+gauge%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-6

[steven c newman]

IF you happen to look through a couple of my box making threads...the ones with the through dovetails....you WILL see me using a Stanley SW No.20 , 6" Bevel Gauge/square...

The Sargent's Patent one might be a bit too big for the OP....

[Tony Shea]

I personally would pick up the Crucible Tool bevel if I was in the market for a small blade bevel. Crucible's is pricey but the features look amazing!! The fact that it can be banged around and still keep the setting is enough to sell me on it. I also really like the feature of being able to adjust blade projection while keeping the angle setting. That seems like a super useful feature!

[Don Peters]

You guys aren't looking very hard. Crown has made a 4" sliding bevel for darn near forever. Cheap and utilitarian. Rockler, Woodcraft, Amazon, etc. Twenty bucks and up. Use your Google-Foo.

[Tony Wilkins]

Tools for working wood has a small Marples one.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

This may be your best bet for finding on that is affordable. The smallest Stanley made appears to be 6".

I made something similar:

501330

This was to help keep a file at the same angle when sharpening crosscut saws. It wouldn't be too difficult to make one as a bevel gauge.

jtk

I still hope to make a square and a proper bevel. I have Jim Koepke's contributions bookmarked.
Be There to Be Square (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299631-Be-There-to-Be-Square&highlight=)

[Derek Cohen]

These are the ones I use:

https://i.postimg.cc/YkSP0cHx/17.jpg (https://postimg.cc/w3QD7FXH)
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/2b71649d-9b76-40e2-aeb1-e50228283ac2

The two on the right are by Chris Vesper. They are THE best - lock easily and very securely, feel solid in the hand … no flex to the blades. The Stanley is a similar design, externally, but a world away in materials and finish. But acceptable.

The small, 4” Vesper is frequently used for marking dovetails. So useful.

Pester Chris for one. He is there but rather busy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Maurice Mcmurry]

End locking is a nice feature. I think I will look inside my all steel General.

US Patent: 104,206 - The Diamond Bevel (https://www.datamp.org//patents/displayPatent.php?number=104,206&type=)

US Patent: 136,714 - Improvement in Carpenters' Bevels (https://www.datamp.org//patents/displayPatent.php?pn=136714&id=10406)

[Keegan Shields]

I use both an 8” Shinwa and a WP bevel gauge. I find myself reaching for the Shinwa more often as it is lighter.

Might not be small enough for the OPs needs but it locks up tight without the need for tools. Good price and works well.

https://taytools.com/products/shinwa-siding-bevel-gauge-aluminum-body-stainless-steel-blade

[Jim Ritter]

I have a set of the Stanley #18 bevel gauges, the body sizes are 4,5,6” and then I have a 6” with a long blade.
501403
and here is a pic of some of my smalls, and a little planking bevel gauge I made.
501405
Jim

[steven c newman]

Hmmm...
501404
Rosewood, Brass, Blued Steel...what's not to love?
Stanley SW No. 20, 6"

[Rob Luter]

Hmmm...
501404
Rosewood, Brass, Blued Steel...what's not to love?
Stanley SW No. 20, 6"

I used to have a couple Disstons with this construction. Really nice pieces. The Stanley #18 stole my heart and the Disstons moved on.

[Tony Shea]

Derek, that's showing off! Those Vesper Bevel's are a tool I have lusted over for years. I was fortunate enough to mess around with one at a Lie Nielson Open House in Warren, Maine. The action of the locking mechanism was like something I've never handled before in a sliding bevel. I own a Blue Spruce sliding bevel, which I really love, but the Vesper locking mechanism is sooo much better executed. I assume this comes down to the precision he works at as well as the quality in materials. Unfortunately I have waited too long to actually pull the trigger on one as everything he sells is "not available" for quit some time.

[Rob Luter]

Agreed. The Vespers are as much art as utility.

[Matthew Eason]

If anyone has one of these 4" Blue Spruce or Vesper units available I'd be interested.

[James White]

Does the Shinwa lock good and tight? I have their other style and the slightest knock will throw it off. I suppose I need to use a screwdriver from now on. But, I always wanted one with the lock mechanism at the butt end.


I use both an 8” Shinwa and a WP bevel gauge. I find myself reaching for the Shinwa more often as it is lighter.

Might not be small enough for the OPs needs but it locks up tight without the need for tools. Good price and works well.

https://taytools.com/products/shinwa-siding-bevel-gauge-aluminum-body-stainless-steel-blade

[Dean Arthur]

James, from my experience with them both, the bottom locking one (from Keegan's link) locks up tight but the other model they offer, the one with the side thumbscrew, does not. Other members have said you need to use a screwdriver on the latter.

[steven c newman]

Hmm,
521195
Picked for $4 the other day..
521196
So...that adds up to....$1 per inch of Handle..

Cute little critter...

[David Zor]

Hillview wood and metal makes a nice bevel gage with bottom screw. I bought the 4” bevel with a solid brass body. Quite pleased with it. They are not cheap, but they are more affordable and attainable than just about everything else in this market. He makes a 7” as well.

[Dean Arthur]

Hillview wood and metal makes a nice bevel gage with bottom screw. I bought the 4” bevel with a solid brass body. Quite pleased with it. They are not cheap, but they are more affordable and attainable than just about everything else in this market. He makes a 7” as well.

Thanks David - Hillview wasn't on my radar but I'll give them a look. I remember being intrigued by his block plane.

Still obviously on the lookout. A creeker pointed out an option on ebay that I tried, but it was a bust. Derek suggested I reach out to Chris Vesper directly to see what he could do, which I did - but unfortunately didn't hear anything back.

So the search continues...

[glenn bradley]

Just more input . . . I use the inexpensive small Crown. I replaced the wing nut with a small brass knurled knob since I can grab it at any point of rotation. This is a small thing but when you are trying to apply torque while holding the gauge in position you don't want to fumble for the wings. It has done everything I have needed to do. I do have the large Veritas gauge and one in between the two. All have been useful and for a tool, that is what it really comes down to for me. I have several "really" nice tools whose job could be done by lesser items BUT, I like having them. I used a LAJ for a shooting plane for years. I got a Veritas Shooting plane for a gift. It does the same job but man, does it do it nicer :)

[Jim Koepke]

I used a LAJ for a shooting plane for years. I got a Veritas Shooting plane for a gift. It does the same job but man, does it do it nicer :)

I agree

jtk

[James Pallas]

I have always used bevel gauges as a measuring device. Unless I am making a single cut I usually make a block. Just as you would do with a tape measure. Measure cut the first piece and use that to mark additional pieces or set up a stop block. Too easy to bump an adjustable tool or misread a measuring device. Usually involves only one cut to make a solid block. If you need a fence just strike a line and drive a couple of brads. In most cases I use machinist angle to mark the first angle. They with also lay flat in the middle of a board.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

Crown Tools used to make one. I think they still do.

Just looked at this on the Rockler site. The reviews do not sound great for it.

jtk

[steven c newman]

I have both the 6" No. 20 version by Stanley...and the 4" No. 18 by Stanley....And about every size on up...I think I am set, for now...

been using the 6" No. 20 for all the Dovetail work I have been doing....May start using the 4" No. 18 for a while...trying to decide IF I need both No. 18s Nickel plated, or not.

About every Antique Store/Mall around these parts has a few such Bevel Gauges...and fairly cheap prices, too....even in the "Gold Plated Price" Booths....

BTW: Mine, when set and locked in place..do not move.

[Todd Sebek]

https://www.hillviewtool.com/

I remember seeing this on the Fine Woodworking YouTube channel when they were walking through the Handworks 2023 show. Looks really Vesper-ish. I don’t have one but I want one.

[Jim Koepke]

https://www.hillviewtool.com/

I remember seeing this on the Fine Woodworking YouTube channel when they were walking through the Handworks 2023 show. Looks really Vesper-ish. I don’t have one but I want one.

Beautiful work, now to the question others might have, is anyone making a quality small bevel gauge at a price the average person can afford?

Related questions might be:

How much is the average woodworker willing to pay for a small bevel gauge?

Can a manufacturer make a profit by making them?

Are there very many woodworkers who want a small bevel gauge?

jtk

[Mark Gibney]

I haven't read all the posts to this thread so I apologize if someone has already posted these Amazon offerings.
Here's one for $12.40 that looks serviceable. Some of the reviews says the blade is shorter than 4 1/2".

https://www.amazon.com/Sliding-Stainless-Locking-Mechanism-Accurately/dp/B001HBRASQ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2K0DJYJNDERKC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nNfY7RyNtYyO94FBgRj2sfnt6I_CZmkQb 84qFat-rLwpt5N-43issUhHnxB8rYfZTxOcTEI6sJEAMrXPD4UOpBmekwJlhPzsSh _yhkdHZ3exHxXVyay8g2Y50gq1qw5YBdSVgok8umZR1CNga5Gq z-sEgDApvUSzQYGrAehoxb_kV32T9-UvKNx42urfo0EQQe4Ti6tQKjiFuRyADvLqMD0-EqDOb4KPc6UkY4eqBGejbhWYeM353QxS19phncdqu_Jqttt3SE q2d6yEQnkWIBjm4X3FaSKge12IvdhUBxo.YSbl-SbFI8j4BlJCyyMRuyC94Wv1Abzw7DoUAsAYyBs&dib_tag=se&keywords=4%22+bevel+gauge&qid=1720037626&sprefix=4+bevel+gauge%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-5

Here's another for $11 but with no reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Jkjhbhged-Protractor-Adjustable-Carpenter-Woodworking/dp/B0D2XM3RJM/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2K0DJYJNDERKC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nNfY7RyNtYyO94FBgRj2sfnt6I_CZmkQb 84qFat-rLwpt5N-43issUhHnxB8rYfZTxOcTEI6sJEAMrXPD4UOpBmekwJlhPzsSh _yhkdHZ3exHxXVyay8g2Y50gq1qw5YBdSVgok8umZR1CNga5Gq z-sEgDApvUSzQYGrAehoxb_kV32T9-UvKNx42urfo0EQQe4Ti6tQKjiFuRyADvLqMD0-EqDOb4KPc6UkY4eqBGejbhWYeM353QxS19phncdqu_Jqttt3SE q2d6yEQnkWIBjm4X3FaSKge12IvdhUBxo.YSbl-SbFI8j4BlJCyyMRuyC94Wv1Abzw7DoUAsAYyBs&dib_tag=se&keywords=4%22+bevel+gauge&qid=1720037905&sprefix=4+bevel+gauge%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-2

[Jim Koepke]

I haven't read all the posts to this thread so I apologize if someone has already posted these Amazon offerings.
Here's one for $12.40 that looks serviceable. Some of the reviews says the blade is shorter than 4 1/2".

> Link removed

Here's another for $11 but with no reviews.

> Link removed

Though both of them look serviceable, one thing many folks may not like is the wing nut for locking the blade. They can often get in the way of fully using the gauge. This is why some folks like the locking bolt that comes through the base of the gauge. The common Stanley bevel gauge had a locking bolt at the top, but it only had one lever arm.

The metal gauge doesn't slide. It is desirable to use the supplementary angle on a bevel gauge at times.

All of my bevel gauge are set up to have the lever out of the way when the blade is locked. One of them had to be modified.

522230

This one had a nut on the side opposite the lever. It may have been done by a former owner. It was carefully drilled and a short piece of brass rod was inserted. The nut was then turned very slightly to jam the rod in place.

jtk

[David Zor]

Beautiful work, now to the question others might have, is anyone making a quality small bevel gauge at a price the average person can afford?

Related questions might be:

How much is the average woodworker willing to pay for a small bevel gauge?

Can a manufacturer make a profit by making them?

Are there very many woodworkers who want a small bevel gauge?

jtk

I have a bevel gauge from Hillview. It’s great and likely the best bang for your buck on the market when you take all factors into account.
-it’s made in America by a fella in his own shop, at his own pace, doing what he loves. The same as each of us building a chair, cabinet, box etc. in our own shop. I believe there is value in supporting that.
-it’s well designed, well made, holds it’s setting and the fit and finish make it a pleasure to use. There’s definitely value in that.
-there isn’t a less expensive option on the new market at this quality of craftsmanship and function.

All that said, coming in around $200 is a steal of a deal. And yes, I have a couple of the Stanley’s, they are great and at $10 or so they are definitely the best bang for your buck. The big difference I find is the lighter body on the Stanley coupled with the 7” blade makes them mighty tippy and they don’t all hold their setting as well as today’s high end options. And that’s why we’re in the good old days right now. We have access to the highest quality versions of the best designs from the past as well as access to surviving examples of those designs for not much money. We also have the option to go on amazon and buy a poorly made copy of well designed tools for less than the cost of a surviving original.

[steven c newman]

Weeeell...later this weekend, I will be using MY Stanley 4" , No. 18 Sliding Bevel Gauge to lay out dovetails with....cost of that tool? $4.00

The larger 1875 Sargent's Patent version is a bit too big for such tasks.

Both use a thumbscrew out the end of the handle, to not get in the way of being used.....nor do either move once set to the angle needed...

IF one has the money to throw after tools, fine....but...one can also walk into the Local Lowes, Home Depot, or Menard's and pick up a more Budget friendly version for less than a 10th on that $200 "steal"....and they work just as well.
522376
6" Stanley sitting next to a smaller Hardware Store version...if you require a wood handled one...
522377
They still work just fine....unless one abuses them by trying to make them stay still while a knife with too much effort is used to mark out with...
522378
So...I think I'll just put this one to work....YMMV, of course...

[steven c newman]

So...
522386
Work Sheet #12 has arrived...so, one of these 2 will get used/abused...

may just use this one..
522387
Half blind dovetails in Pine, today....maybe through dovetails for Joint #13.....then 1/4" box joints for Joint #14?

Film @2300 hrs...