Sliders - viewed MM & Robland?

[Ed Kowaski]

I spent most of Friday afternoon with my hands on Mini Max machines. All in all an impressive line. Nice to see SCM has improved considerably on design, fit and finish from the late 80 gear I knew. I was able to fondle the SC4WS and the S315WS. Both are capable saws and very close to the same thing in many respects. The price difference for me is ~$2500 so it's a tough call. Either would serve me well, head sez get the SC4, gut sez get the S315.

Where does Robland fit in the food chain? From photo's only Robland appears to be more upscale comparing the Z320 to the S315WS. Anyone know the Z320?

Ed

[Jim Becker]

Ed, I can't help with the Robland, but I understand the tough choice between the S315WS and the SC4. I'll more likely go for the SC4 and special order it with the longer slider...as well as cut down the extension table/fence. I don't see a need for the width once there is a nice 8'+ slider in play. The downside to this plan would be the longer lead time for a machine. But it will be a long time before I do it, anyway... ;)

[Chris Barton]

Ed, I have a Robland and have been very happy with it since I bought it about 6 months ago. The slider function will accomodate up to 50" but, will not do a full sized length of plywood or other sheet goods. Some folks have called this a "hardwood slider" which may be accurate. The saw and sliding table on mine is very powerful and precise. I just did a brick lay apron for a federal card table I am building and the sliding table made making the many angle cuts to exact length a snap. While the saw and sliding table are great features they are not the only features of this combo machine. I have used the mortiser, jointer and planner functions as well and can say they all delivered. I especially like the ability to joint 12" wide boards and using the mortiser to make my jointery using loose tennons. I have not used the shaper yet, they kind of scare me.

Now, if what you plan to be doing is ripping down lots of sheet goods then the Robland is probably not your best choice. If you need a lot of capability and functionallity then, you may want to consider the Robland.

[Richard Wolf]

Where's Paul to light this fuse?:D

Richard

[lou sansone]

Hi ed.
I take it you went to the show room to inspect the mm saws. any other thoughts about them. did you peak under the hood and see anything that caught your attention ?

best wishes
lou

[Paul B. Cresti]

Richard, gee thanks for the intro :) no matches on me I just simply speak the truth through my own experiences and opinions...if you want it sugar coated go to Dunkin Dounuts;)...... besides no one around here has ever really seen me mad anyway :D

My thoughts/views on the Robland 3200 is this: it is a tank period but the problem is it is a tank from the 19th century. The slider is made up of bolted plates not an extrusion as far as I know. There is no real true trunion and it is connected to the under side of the table using the "pillow block" technology but get this it is welded not bolted. So if you have any problems you are out of luck. That said if it is aligned correctly it can be a decent saw, a little rough around the edges and an older technology but not too bad.

There are differences in the SCW4, SCW4ws and the S315ws. The ws versions are the longer sliders with the 8.5ft stroke slides. The SCW4 is the 5.5ft short stroke. The main difference between the two is the SCW4ws has the "pillow block" type assembly for the blade & motor assembly and the S315ws has a true saw trunion. The S315ws is also (especially the new version) is just a bigh beefier all around, slider wider and thicker, more cast iron etc.... I would say the SC4ws is a perfect slider for the hobbiest who is not pounding on his machine all day and everyday. The S315ws is designed to be in the small/medium pro shop. Not that either one is bad it is just they are sized differently and priced differently to meet different needs.

IMHO Robland is more comparable with the likes of Rojek and Hammer. The next level is MiniMax,Felder (series dependent) and Knapp. Beyond that we get into MM Formula/SCM, Altendorf, Martin, Format .......

I can not be held accountable for anything I have said, will say or am thinking of saying as this is my opinion of my opinion which comes from the unofficial spokesman of myself :) and that is my opinion of that

[Chris Barton]

Now that Paul has officially weighed in :D I will add this, and it might be a little obvious. First, your choice of machine should be most directly influenced by your needs. If you are a hobbiest woodworker you are unlikely to "need" a european slider. If you are operating a cabinet shop then a big slider may be spot on for your needs. Likewise, if you would like the luxury of a slider but, don't need it for full sized sheet goods then, cost will be the common denominator for your choice. When I chose my machine it was based upon several factors; what I would get in the combo package, the amount I was willing to pay, and my expectations of the performance and quality of the product. While I agree with Paul that the Robland represents vintage technology, I don't think that's a disadvantage. Tried and true technology works and a term we use in science certainly captures its essence, "parsimony."

So, with all that said. What is it you want to do with a slider and what functions are or aren't important to you?

[Ed Kowaski]

Hi Guys, my internet connection was down. Sorry 'bout that.

I've given a verbal "OK, I'll take it" on the SC4 WS. It was a difficult choice.
Thanks again to all who posted. Special thanks to minimax usa for their help even though there was no possible sale involved.

I had intended to explain my reasons but I'm exhausted. Took about 15 mins to get this far. :)

Ed

[lou sansone]

Hi Guys, my internet connection was down. Sorry 'bout that.

I've given a verbal "OK, I'll take it" on the SC4 WS. It was a difficult choice.
Thanks again to all who posted. Special thanks to minimax usa for their help even though there was no possible sale involved.

I had intended to explain my reasons but I'm exhausted. Took about 15 mins to get this far. :)

Ed

hi ed
so are you buying the sc4 or not? What features did you really like

lou

[Ed Kowaski]

Hi Lou, yes I'm buying it.

Perhaps it's easier to say what I didn't like. The short answer is nothing.

Everything that makes a good slider is present. The frame is substantial, the main table is substantial and flat, the rip fence is substantial, easy to adjust and locks positively. Probably have to adjust it square a couple of times in 20 years. The crosscut support arm and table is substantial. My entire weight at the extreme end of the crosscut table has no effect on the sliding table movement. The slider is tight but moves freely with little effort. Main blade adjustment is positive and accurate. Details like the thumb relief cast into the main table, only seen this on Altendorf and Martin until now. No built in mobility kit but allowance made for a pallet jack. The design is good, fit and finish is better then good. Really no trace of the heavy crudeness of older SCM machines.

There is no doubt in my mind that Mini Max knows what makes a great slider and imo they were very successful at putting these features into a strong package that's affordable to a small shop.

Ed

[Ed Kowaski]

Jim both saws are available with a ~900mm rip fence. I wouldn't go any shorter then that. I agree with you that with a slider a 50" rip fence is not that necessary.

Ed

[Paul B. Cresti]

Ed,
Good luck with the saw and welcome to the MM family. Do check out our little group over at Yahoo. So when is do to land? 1ph or 3ph?

[Ed Kowaski]

Hi Paul,
Thanks, thanks and thanks for your help.
What little group at yahoo?
It's in stock and I hope to pick it up this week.
1ph.

Your SMC mail box is full.

[Paul B. Cresti]

thanks I just cleaned out all the hate mail ;)

[tod evans]

ed welcome to italian tools! .02 tod

[Greg Hairston]

Welcome to the MM family ED.

Greg H

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations, Ed. Nice choice. I'm looking forward to your pictures and review...hint...hint... ;)

[lou sansone]

me too
lou

[tod evans]

me too
lou

WHAT??? are you going mm too?

[lou sansone]

WHAT??? are you going mm too?

you never know ... :)

lou

[Mark Singer]

me too! If it ever gets here:confused:

[tod evans]

me too! If it ever gets here:confused:

the boats from china have priority in customs. :) .02 tod

[Jim Becker]

me too! If it ever gets here
Ah, but yours is likely worth the little extra wait since it's the "world premiere" version of the Mark Singer Edition Slider... ;)

[Paul B. Cresti]

me too! If it ever gets here:confused:

...I am waiting too....for something....from Italy...... :D

[Rick Kipp]

I have been using the 410 elite occasionally for about 4 years. The best I have been able to adjust the slider is to about 1/8" out in 8 feet. Is this normal? I have been shimming one end to compensate. Most of the work I do on the machine is with cabinet grade plywood and the shaper for raised panel doors.

I have never used the attachment to do mortice work. What is the learning curve using this tool?

Thanks, Rick

[Chris Fournier]

I bought a CU 410 Elite S last fall and have been doing a lot of work with it - after a wee bit of tweaking I have to say that it's the bee's knees. There are a few things that I'm gonna make up for it to make it mine (like additional slider stops) but it is a solid machine that I love using.

I don't understand what you mean by slider runout Rick. My machine is adjusted to cut square, no problem. I do use the cam clamp on larger pieces as they can be dragged off the fence. I rip a good edge and then cross cut to get my first square corner.

[Rick Kipp]

Hi Chris,
When I rip an 8 foot long panel, the cut is off by about 1/8". I have adjusted the fence (on the front of the sliding table) as far as it will go. Is there another trick or is this normal?