Price of new tools.

[Dave Lehnert]

For all us old time woodworkers,
Am I the only one having a hard time buying a new tool knowing what they use to cost just a couple years ago?
Sad part is, Don't think it will ever come back down but maybe a little.

[Tom M King]

I bought a new lawnmower last year. I mowed a neighbors yard with it a couple of weeks ago because it was too steep for his riding mower over a big part of his yard. He wanted to know where to get one. I told him I had paid 13 for it with the April 15% discount last year. He stopped by my house with big eyes and said that same mower is 18 now almost exactly a year later. They hadn't changed the mower one bit. I'm glad I don't need to look at woodworking tools.

[Dave Zellers]

Thousand?!

[Ron Citerone]

Tool not so much. Fasteners, plywood and restaurant food, YES!

[Tom M King]

Thousand?!

https://www.cubcadet.com/en_US/commercial-zero-turn-mowers/pro-z-972-s-kw/53FIHMUY050.html?fitsOnModel=false#start=12

13,100 April of last year.

[Dave Zellers]

Back in the day, if I needed a tool to do a job, I bought it. Quality tools like Rockwell, Porter Cable (back in the 70's), Milwaukee and Makita. I wondered if I was being too casual with my money but now I am retired and have many tools and use all of them in tasks around the house. I could never afford to buy comparable tools today. I'm so glad to have them. Especially things like Makita batteries which have gone through the roof.

I too look at prices today and both cringe and smile. Some things like my Incra sleds are worth more today than my cost. I'm sure many on this board are in the same position.

[Dave Zellers]

https://www.cubcadet.com/en_US/commercial-zero-turn-mowers/pro-z-972-s-kw/53FIHMUY050.html?fitsOnModel=false#start=12

13,100 April of last year.

Wow. That's a nice lawnmower. Never would have imagined they cost that much.

[Bill Dufour]

The ryobi ride on ztm sold at hoe despot takes like 6 or more 40 volt batteries at $200 each.
Bill D

[Richard Coers]

Be sure to thank those corporations that took all the factories overseas to sell us all those cheap tools for so many years.

[Dave Lehnert]

I have a JET cabinet saw I purchased around the year 2000 Paid $1,299.00 Bet I could sell it now for what I paid or more.

[Dave Lehnert]

I bought a new lawnmower last year. I mowed a neighbors yard with it a couple of weeks ago because it was too steep for his riding mower over a big part of his yard. He wanted to know where to get one. I told him I had paid 13 for it with the April 15% discount last year. He stopped by my house with big eyes and said that same mower is 18 now almost exactly a year later. They hadn't changed the mower one bit. I'm glad I don't need to look at woodworking tools.

I was all set to buy a new ZTR right before COVID. Prices has just gone crazy. Not sure how lawn guys can make money now.

[George Yetka]

https://www.cubcadet.com/en_US/commercial-zero-turn-mowers/pro-z-972-s-kw/53FIHMUY050.html?fitsOnModel=false#start=12

13,100 April of last year.

When I bought my place 3+ acres, in 2015 I figured on buying a commercial ride on. I figured on paying 15,000. After meeting the neighbor he mentioned a lawn service he uses So I called for a quote he was 75 for the whole property 55 if he skips the back half which is behind a treeline.

I did the math the machine would never pay itself off having me do it. Especially when you include the rest of the lawn equipment, fuel, and maintenance. Then on top of that I would have to store and winterize everything. Now I have Milwaukee blower/ trimmer/hedge trimmer/chainsaw. Almost no maintenance. and more room for tools.

To OP point i feel like a lot of the tools I own I slipped into just before Price jump.

[Michael Burnside]

13k? 15k? What kind of mowers are you guys looking at? These sound like Ferraris not mowers :D I have 2 acres and my Hustler XD which was 5k (yes still stupid expensive) does awesome and that Kawi engine is superb.

OP, as far as tool prices go, it hasn't really changed whether or not I buy a tool I want/need. Its my one passion and if I can afford it, I will. I don't own a boat, camper, RV or anything like that, so I figure "ya only live once". I'm not happy about it, but I'm not retired and so money coming in compensates accordingly. Having said that, I'm certainly sensitive to the cost of living/things. My in-laws live with us because affording something themselves close by where we can help out that isn't an apartment or duplex is prohibitively expensive on their income.

[Tom M King]

We have over ten acres of grass that’s kept short, and about a quarter mile of shoreline that is not safe to cut with a regular mower. That shoreline had always been cut with a string trimmer before.

I think I have a picture here of part of the shoreline cut the first day I used this mower. I can now cut all the short grass we have in less than two hours.

The ten acres includes a couple of rental houses that we used to pay $75 each every week or two. Takes me ten minutes each to do myself now, and I can catch them between rentals while the houses are being cleaned.

Will post the picture later. Don’t know how to access gallery from phone.

[John TenEyck]

Not sure about tools, but woodworking machines are cheaper this year than the past couple. I bought Grizzly bandsaw about 5 years ago for around $2700. Last year it was over $4K just for the machine. This year it's down to about $3200. Grizzly, HF, and many others are advertising again, and offering some sort of discount. I agree, I don't think prices will ever go back to where they were. There are too many added costs now, wages, fuel, etc for that to happen.

As for mowers, I just bought a used Scag 36" walk behind for $1000. I could pay that much for a new Honda to replace my current residential mower, which leaves ruts with its narrow wheels when the ground is soft, and they remain there until the next year. The Scag is over 20 years old but likely doesn't have 1000 hours on the commercial Vanguard engine. It looks well maintained and runs great, and solves the rut problem. I'll never need another mower, and it will cut my time to mow the 1-1/4 acres I have by around 40%, more if I hook up the sulky when I'm doing the 1/2 acre field. At some point, hopefully, I'll start writing checks to have it done. The point? Used equipment often is an acceptable alternative to new and may offer better performance than anything new at that price point.

John

[Bill Dufour]

Is that made by Yanmar?
Bill D

[John TenEyck]

Is that made by Yanmar?
Bill D

Scag Power Equipment, Wisconsin. On par with Ferris and Toro Pro.

https://www.scag.com/company/about-us/

John

The Vanguard engine was made in Japan, which was prior to when Briggs and Stratton moved the manufacture of those engines to the US. So, maybe Yanmar, although I saw some info. that suggested Toyota.

[Keith Outten]

Commercial machines are the best bargain. I bought a new 72" Dixie Chopper 25 years ago for about $8,000.00. Been cutting 2.5 acres every week and it's still in good shape. The mower deck is made from 1/4" thick steel plate, no sheet metal anywhere on the mower.

[Keegan Shields]

Adjusted for purchasing power, you'd need to get $2,279 for that JET cabinet saw.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2000?amount=1300

[Edward Weber]

I'll just say it, Lathes are too expensive.
For a full sized lathe, you're looking at $2500 - over $5000.
In essence, it's a motor on a stand. All the work holding and tooling is extra.
Absolutely ridiculous.

I have nothing against expensive tools, just overpriced ones.

[Jim Becker]

13k? 15k? What kind of mowers are you guys looking at? These sound like Ferraris not mowers :D I have 2 acres and my Hustler XD which was 5k (yes still stupid expensive) does awesome and that Kawi engine is superb..
My 54" SCAG Freedom Z was about $5K originally, but that was back in the late 2000s. I haven't priced them because there's no need to do so, but I suspect that they are meaningfully a lot more expensive today than back then. I don't really even need a machine like that now here at the new property, but...it's paid for. Someday, I'll make a change, likely to an "EV" style.

As to tools, yes, stuff is a lot more expensive in initial cost these days, but so is everything non-tool, too. That's the nature of our economy. And like many folks, I'm very glad I was able to buy "the good stuff" years ago as it would be really hard to do so now.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Recently was thinking that at today's prices, I couldn't buy the tools I now own. Luckily for me, I worked for myself, so tool purchases were business expenses. Savings on taxes ((State & Fed,) along with SS taxes, often paid more than half the price of the tool. FIL once said" I was the only person he knew who had a saw for each end of the board." Reminded him, how many steps I saved by having identical saws at each end of the board!

[Matt Lau]

Recently was thinking that at today's prices, I couldn't buy the tools I now own. Luckily for me, I worked for myself, so tool purchases were business expenses. Savings on taxes ((State & Fed,) along with SS taxes, often paid more than half the price of the tool. FIL once said" I was the only person he knew who had a saw for each end of the board." Reminded him, how many steps I saved by having identical saws at each end of the board!

Was looking for the thumbs up icon.

Not sure how many people understand that time/labor is EXPENSIVE!
If you can double your output with just a duplicate tool, that's a bargain! (says the bottom feeder guy that always buys his tools secondhand or refurbished)

[David Sochar]

I looked at a lawn mower first as an investment, 30 years ago when we moved to 10 acres. Paid $3,500 for a Lawn Boy. At the time, I did not know it was made by MTD, a company that makes many mowers and paints/labels them differently. I figured that with reasonable care, it would last 10 years or more.

About 8 years in, after replacing all the blade spindles, the deck, the seat, the tires, innumerable belts and more, I realized it was a fool's game. The motor was sound, but everything else rattled, rusted or just plain fell off.

Next up was a Cub Cadet. $4,000. Same story. Cynicism is firmly in place as a result. Should I have paid $12k for as mower years ago? That was more I was paying for a car at the time. It lasted about 10 years, but again, replacing the deck, spindles, 20 -30 belts, etc.

Then beaten and worn out, I next bought a John Deere. $4,500. The first day, mowing, feeling proud - they even gave me a John Deere cap - it threw a belt. This would be an event repeated in nearly every mowing for the next 10 years. Down on my knees, aging bad back, this side, then the other side, spring here, wrench there, block of wood, mashed fingers, and 15 minutes later, I am back mowing.

One other thing thing they all have in common is the near impossibility of a an easy remove and replace deck. I like sharp blades - I make my living from a sharp edge in many respects - but can rarely enjoy it since it takes an hour or two to remove the deck, then blades, and replace. Sharpening only takes 10 minutes.

The John Deere has an hour meter, and I am at 500 hours now. If it were a car, with 500 hours at an average of 50 MPH, it would have 25,000 miles on it. Hell, a car would still smell new at 25,000 miles. With little or no service beyond oil changes. The mower looks like it spent its life in a war zone. And behaves like it also.

Gotta go, I have to mow the grass.

Thanks for letting me rant.

[Tom M King]

I put a marine lifting eye on the front of this mower. I like sharp blades too. Blades are changed with a cordless impact driver with me standing in front of the mower sitting on its big flat rear end.

Sorry for the sidetrack of this thread to mowers. I was originally just intending it as an example of machinery price inflation much more than overall average rate.

The marine lifting eye is rated for enough capacity to lift three of these 1800 pound mowers all the way up in the air. I can lift it with a chain hoist, but it's faster with the tractor loader. I like blades both sharp and balanced, so the setup for that is on the inside of a hinged shop door. I can open the door, and all the mess stays outside.

With another set of blades ready to swap for the dull ones, the mower doesn't have to sit in this position for long enough to matter. It's a few minute job, mostly getting on and off the tractor.

This mower really can cut a 6' swath at 14 mph, but it will only do it pretty with sharp blades.

[Jim Becker]

I lift mine up like that with my tractor, Tom, although not quite that high, when I want/need to sharpen the blades.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My Lie-Nielsen tools are worth more today on the used market than I paid for them.

[David Buchhauser]

Lucky for most of us "old timers" that we already have most all of the tools we need, and purchased many years ago.
David

[Thomas McCurnin]

Another side to this story is my experience with DeWalt routers. I remember in the day that a good router was several hundred dollars. Today, I can buy a DeWalt for $200, and it makes it easy to buy a dedicated pair for a dovetail jig.

[George Yetka]

13k? 15k? What kind of mowers are you guys looking at? These sound like Ferraris not mowers :D I have 2 acres and my Hustler XD which was 5k (yes still stupid expensive) does awesome and that Kawi engine is superb.

OP, as far as tool prices go, it hasn't really changed whether or not I buy a tool I want/need. Its my one passion and if I can afford it, I will. I don't own a boat, camper, RV or anything like that, so I figure "ya only live once". I'm not happy about it, but I'm not retired and so money coming in compensates accordingly. Having said that, I'm certainly sensitive to the cost of living/things. My in-laws live with us because affording something themselves close by where we can help out that isn't an apartment or duplex is prohibitively expensive on their income.

I was looking at dixie chopper. My need was for less grass than Tom but I have close to 0 time for the lawn. I work 70-80 hours a week often work saturdays and I have a wife who also works and 2 kids under 5. My weekends are pretty shot. and so are my weeknights. I wanted a commercial mower so I could finish in an hour or so. but an average of $65 a week for lawn care is far better for me.

[John TenEyck]

Lucky for most of us "old timers" that we already have most all of the tools we need, and purchased many years ago.
David

A statement repeated by every generation.

John

[Tom M King]

I think I've gotten to the point that an old man was when he told me, a long time ago, that he'd gotten to the point where Christmas came twice a year. I was thinking I've had that mower for one year, but it's actually two. That makes the price increase a little more in line. It has a little over 90 hours on it now. Back when I had a man that ran a regular mower to cut all this, that mower had 300 hours a year put on it cutting the same grass.

[Jerome Stanek]

I looked at that mower 3 ears ago and they wanted $9000 for it new.

[Rick Potter]

I was fortunate to have purchased a lot of my more expensive tools used during the 2008-11 recession. Now that I am getting older, I have sold some of the less used ones, like edge sander and Castle pocket holer, for triple what I paid for them.

Win a few, lose a lot. Brag on the wins, somehow I never mention losses much ;).

[Zachary Hoyt]

I've bought four new tools that I can remember. A Supermax 19-38 for $1300, a Shop Outfitters 1415 ring roller for $600, a Rikon 10-305 for $225 or so and a DeWalt angle grinder for $60 or so. I have been pleased enough with all of them that I would buy another if they died, even though the prices have gone up quite a bit. Mostly I buy used tools, and wait till a good price comes along.

[Rod Sheridan]

For all us old time woodworkers,
Am I the only one having a hard time buying a new tool knowing what they use to cost just a couple years ago?
Sad part is, Don't think it will ever come back down but maybe a little.

My wife’s father apprenticed as a cabinetmaker in England prior to WWII.

He spoke of handplanes costing a weeks wages. Most of us pay for them with much less than a days salary now.

I think we went through a period of artificially low prices and now are heading back to a more average lifestyle.

Regards, Rod

[Edward Weber]

My wife’s father apprenticed as a cabinetmaker in England prior to WWII.

He spoke of handplanes costing a weeks wages. Most of us pay for them with much less than a days salary now.

I think we went through a period of artificially low prices and now are heading back to a more average lifestyle.

Regards, Rod

I agree to a point.
It's a bit unfair to try and compare 100 years ago and now. The ease and speed in which tools are made, drive the price low. If you purchase a bespoke tool or many other items from boutique sellers, you may not be paying a weeks wages but the cost is many times more expensive than the standard.
if there are valid reason for price increases, that's one thing but simply having high prices for no discernible reason, doesn't usually sit well.

[Atlas Ramirez]

In my case I got a good deal 6 month ago I purchased a second-hand lawnmower from my neighbour and he gave me an 1.5 years old lawnmower which he purchased at 15000 and gave it to me only at 3000 and it' in good-working condition.

[Rod Sheridan]

I agree to a point.
It's a bit unfair to try and compare 100 years ago and now. The ease and speed in which tools are made, drive the price low. If you purchase a bespoke tool or many other items from boutique sellers, you may not be paying a weeks wages but the cost is many times more expensive than the standard.
if there are valid reason for price increases, that's one thing but simply having high prices for no discernible reason, doesn't usually sit well.

I agree, however the cost increases in labour, energy, materials and transportation have been anything but modest over the last few years……Regards, Rod.

[Jeff Roltgen]

I think we went through a period of artificially low prices

This is the crux of it all, and that's an understatement for sure. We got lulled into the numbers over the years and mistook it for reality. If you were paying attention over the last decade, the notice had been given by several entities, many times, that this is not reality, and future events eventually would bring us to the point we've arrived at today. Fixed incomer's and minimum wage earners having to choose between a tank of gas or that extra bag or two of groceries or even paying the utilities was quite accurately predicted. No way wages, even with what seem to be amazing leaps in hourly rates could keep up with the inflation. We didn't know how or when, but seems the pandemic did the trick.

How often did I look at furniture store pieces being sold as finished products for less than the cost of the raw materials to build it myself, after the markups. Seemed impossible. Because it was. Then I read a book called "Factory Man". Quite an eye opener about Mr. Basset of Basset furniture, and the discussions he had directly with some of the Chinese factories. No politics, just the cold hard truth of this situation as it pertained to the furniture industry. They have no respect for us, and are very much interested in destroying us by providing an endless supply of cheap goods, and willfully pirating anything we bring to their factories to produce for pennies on the dollar. As Mr. Basset was told, plainly and directly, we'll make these items as cheaply as you want them, on one condition: go back to America and close the last of your factories.

Now let's talk good news:
Glad to see furniture plywood and hardwoods have leveled a bit. A delayed wave of radical price swings in that sector of the lumber industry over the structural grades had those numbers up an average of 50% on hardwoods and often close to 100% or more on sheet goods as recent as last fall. In fact, the current load of hardwoods I'm working with was back down to pre-pandemic levels, and I paid as much as $30 less per sheet for certain plys vs. last fall, bringing the increase down to about 30-50% vs. that peak for sheet goods.
When you're pulling orders of 30+ sheets, this is very significant, indeed. Even Baltic birch has leveled off a bit, and my local supplier never did run out completely.

Best news for me, when I wanted to upgrade to a couple higher dollar European machines about 18 months ago, the Asian competition had gone up so much due to shipping costs, it was much easier to justify investing in what are generally considered a big upgrade in engineering and quality.

jeff

[Atlas Ramirez]

hey contributor you guys don't talk with member like me new member thats not fair

[Rich Konopka]

There is also a level of stupidity or a person having too much discretionary income that allows for a toolmaker like BRIDGE CITY. Charging $38 for a scratch awl and people buying them.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I put a marine lifting eye on the front of this mower. …

Continuing the hijack, Hustler Raptor ZTR has a tilting deck feature, both for compact parking and blade changes/sharpening. I suspect you could do minor sharp updates w/o blade removal. It looks brilliant, but obviously introduces another wear and failure point. If anybody has one, please report. …And gloat?

The feature came out about 4-5mo after I purchased one of its stable mates, since divested. We downsized the flatland house to <1/4ac grass, and no need for ZTR on 5ac of mountain, so I just just watch the big boy toys now, and reminisce. :o

[Malcolm McLeod]

…go back to America and close the last of your factories.
…

Similar anecdote about Levi Strauss: I had family connection to their management for years. And they had 40-odd factories in N.America (IIRC). Then the ‘nothing comes between me and my Calvin’s’ ad campaign started.

Line operator at Levi, running 100% of standard*, earned something like $10-$12/hr in late 70s. Calvin paid Malay workers the equal of $0.15/hr. (I’ll let y’all handle the inflation adjustments.)

Levi was forced to off-shore 100% of production or lock the doors.

(I am a generation or 2 removed from any insights to Levi ownership/management today, so will stay out of that fray.)

*- I remember as a kid seeing operator rating cards posted on their sewing machine power feeds - boasting of many running >120%. And they were paid accordingly.

[Terry Wawro]

I was looking through an old woodworking magazine a couple of months ago. It must have been at least 20 years old or older. What surprised me was in the ads. The price of many tools like routers, drills, circ saws and other tools were about the same price then as now. Given inflation, your average corded bench tools were a LOT more expensive back then.

[Tom M King]

In the early '70's, a new 8" jointer sold for $995. A new car cost $3500.