Bandsaws similar to scmi 600

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

I'm finally looking at possible bandsaw upgrades. I'm happy to buy used / old metal. I'm not very knowledgeable about bandsaws.

What are similar bandsaws to look at size and quality wise? I came across a scmi 600 in someone else's shop and really liked it.

Also, is there a design difference between a regular bandsaw and a resaw bandsaw? Just accessories for the table / feeding etc?

I appreciate any guidance

[Jay Houghton]

Boy, that's a can of worms! I've been through quite a few bandsaws to get to what I have now. You should do some research on the makers of European bandsaws, meaning SCMI, Laguna HD, and the other usual suspects. What I discovered is that they are like washing machines or microwaves. There's a limited number of OEM's and they will contract manufacture with different guides, colors, knobs and the like. But the basic machines are the same. I have a Meber 600, meaning 24", and it turns out they manufacture Mini-Max, Laguna HD and others in the same plant under various names. So as you shop around I would almost ignore the brand name and look at the basic structural design, guides, wheels, table, trunions and the like and then find out who the manufacture is, which is likely to be someone other than the brand. But the real money in band saws is in the frame, the wheels, and the guides. A lot of the rest is just bells and whistles.
Jay
BTW, a resaw band saw is typically a smaller wheel with a large resaw capacity. The advantage being footprint mainly. But my 24" saw doesn't really take up that much more space than a 16" or 20" saw. It just looks like it does! But a wide resaw blade, say 1" is going to be stressed going around a 16" wheel and it'll shorten the life of the blade. Also they have lower SFPM rates so you're resawing will be slow in order to evacuate the chips cleanly.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

If the SCMI is a deal you're happy with then jump on it!
I have a 24" (600mm) bandsaw that is marketed as a SCM brand and such. The label says it is a Centauro.
The bandsaw is terrific!!!
I agree with Jay that the space it takes up is marginally more than a 16" or 18", etc. saw.
I'm a hobbyist woodworker and occasionally make a few bucks on my hobby. I wouldn't trade my bandsaw for anything. It really is a great size and it can run large saws as well as finer tooth smaller saws.
I drove 6 hours one way to get mine and knowing how much I like it I'd have doubled that.

[Bill Dufour]

Little more info please like diameter and max depth of cut. Many here do not have model numbers memorized. two wheel bandsaws? not much has changed since they went to seperate electric motor drive around 1925. More modern is welded frame. Aluminum wheels after ww2 made scrap aluminum cheap.
Bill

[John Pendery]

The resaw bandsaws I’ve seen have fairly specialized built in fence features that limit throat capacity and would make the saw impractical for anything other than resawing. There are likely other designs I’m unaware of. I do a lot of resawing making shop sawn veneer and use a normal bandsaw with great results. The addition of a power feeder designed for resawing is a nice addition. I have two Italian bandsaws in the smaller 16” range and a larger Tannewitz GH36. I like all three, but my minimax s400’s blade guard/guide mechanism doesn’t go lower than about 3.5” or so. No big deal but it annoys me. My other saws I can drop it to the table. I prefer the ability to do that. Also I wouldn’t want a bandsaw, especially a larger saw, without a brake.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Andrew,

We must have talked about bandsaws at some point in the past, but to me a 24” / 600 sized saw is the sweet spot for a professional that takes on a wide variety of work. You typically get a beefy enough saw in that size to do most work. Usually 15” + of resaw and a motor powerful enough to handle resawing. Beyond that size is, of course nice, but moving them and the overall height and width become a bigger factor.

I have a 20” / 500mm Italian saw. ‘86 Steton SN500. 13” resaw, ACM built. I love the saw but a 24” for me is the perfect size. Well, a 24” for most stuff and a decent 14” that always has a narrow blade setup for scrolling / small curved work if we are talking about really ideal. I would love to have a 600mm saw that is as well outfitted as my current 500mm saw, but just have yet to come across the right deal / candidate for the right price that warrants changing horses and upgrading again.

In my experience, for all around bandsaw-ing, the real meat and potatoes of any bandsaw is the spine strength for adequate tensioning (Italians / Euros normally have this well covered), the wheel diameter / table size, the quality and ease of adjusting the guides, the fence and finally the motor size. The guides and fence can be well upgraded fairly simply with some $$.

Foot pedal brake or some type of blade brake is also important in my book.

I will share a few photos of my saw below, though I’m sure you’ve seen if a few times in the past on IG. I recently put a NOS Laguna Driftmaster fence on and it is superb and a very nice improvement over the crude stock fence that was frustrating to square up after every movement.

[Dave Roock]

http://www.tannewitz.com/tannewitz-products/24bandsaw/ Tannewitz has some incredible top quality bandsaws - Made in the USA, unsurpassed quality.
They are having a 5% off sale on those bandsaws which come in many different sizes. Industrial up grades from there. No made in China junk needed.
I will be visiting their company factory next month and doing a report on what I see.

[Patrick Kane]

I would consider a true resaw bandsaw to be a one trick pony. When you say 'resaw', i am picturing a Tri-state, kimwood, stenner etc. I think they all have 36" wheels and a massive feeder with a series of rollers instead of a conventional rip fence. It is possible you could break down all of the feeder/roller components and use it as more of a traditional bandsaw, but i dont think it would be practical. Ive never used one of these machines, i bet they are awesome, but wayyyyy too heavy and power hungry to make it into my shop. Also, you need to resaw a ton of lumber to justify such a machine occupying a bit footprint in your shop.

24-36" euro saws of the last 30 years used to be so inexpensive on the second hand market. I dont know what they go for now on the used market, but i remember pre-2020 i would regularly watch a 1990s scmi 600/900 sell for less than $800. Not just scmi, it could be wadkin, meber, etc. I think guys were/are paying more for Olivers, Northfields, and Tannewitzs. I havent used any of the larger saws, so i cant help you too much. I have a 20" italian saw, but i would very much like a larger saw with more throat and table. I dont need more than 19.5" resaw or 4.8hp. One thing i would look out for on the 80s/90s italian saws, is i definitely remember seeing 2-3hp motors on their 24/36" saws. In the 2000s to now that changed to atleast 5hp with most being 7.5-9hp, but i feel like 2hp would be underwhelming for resawing. It could be that a lot of those older saws had limited(by today's standards) resaw capacities. I want to say most manufacturers changed the resaw spec to match the throat spec somewhere around 2000-2002. For example, you can find older Minimax mm16's that have a resaw capacity of 12" or under(with smaller motors), whereas a mm16 from the last 15 years will be 16" of resaw capacity. Anyway, just a few little details to be aware of when comparing different models of different years.

[andrew whicker]

Thanks a lot for all this information. I meant to respond earlier, but I haven't had my laptop open for a few days and hate typing long paragraphs on my phone.

This gives me a good starting point and it's good hearing that everyone else has settled on 600 / 24" size. The SCMI 900 is way too big for my shop.

Are there threaded bosses or similar to help build outfeed tables for these larger bandsaws? I'm trying to imagine where I would put this new bandsaw and am kind of struggling. How much linear space do you keep as an outfeed and infeed? It seems like with these bigger bandsaws they are generally against a wall and have an outfeed table.

Like many of you, I would be using it very much as a general work horse. Nothing specific. Furniture, built ins, cabs. I would like the ability to make thick veneers, but I don't so far see that as a huge part of my business. I will definitely keep an eye out for motor power.

I really appreciate the advice.

[andrew whicker]

I've been looking for these off and on since this post and I have yet to run across the 24" size. I see plenty of 36" sized machines.. which I could power and I could make room for..? The 36" saws are fairly priced.

But otherwise I keep coming across sizes JUST below industrial.

There is a guy selling a used MM16 (w/ the 5 HP motor and I'm guessing 16" ht capacity) for $5.3k! They are $6,200 new!

Anyway, I'll keep looking. Trying to get an idea of how much money I'll need and this is proving much more difficult than anticipated.

On a similar note, do any of you have a go to suppliers for reconditioned / refurbished machines?

[Jay Houghton]

I had the same search going on a number of years ago when I decided to upgrade from a WT-16. I found a Meber 600, which is the OEM manufacturer for a lot of other Italian saws. It's 24" with enormous solid cast iron wheels! I was in Michigan at the time and the saw was in Lexington, KY at a family owned lumber yard. I bought it sight unseen for $1100 and then they put it on a pallet, shrink wrapped it and I arranged shipping (about $400). It arrived in great condition, no issues with the payment, etc. I would not have done that if I hadn't vetted the seller a little bit before hand, but sometimes you just have to have faith. Since then I've put Carter guides on it, the old style, not the roller bearing kind, and eventually put a 3hp single phase motor on it. I also have a Lenox TriMaster carbide resaw blade. So I've probably got $2000 into it or maybe a little more. But it is a beast and never hints at slowing down when resawing hardwood at the capacity. My feeling about horsepower is that it's over rated. With 200#'s of rotational mass any hard spots in the wood are unnoticeable. If you want to blast through 14" of oak you'll need a saw with a higher sfpm, a bigger blade with deeper gullets, and that usually translates to a bigger saw, like a 36" or so. That, or one of the Japanese resaws from Makita or Hitachi. The limiting factor in resawing is blade speed not horsepower. But I can cut .075 sheets off of 16" hardwood with very little cleanup required. Bottom line is I think a newer saw with the steel box frame of 24" or larger will solve just about all your bandsaw wishes.
Jay

[Dave Sabo]

I have a Meber 600, meaning 24", and it turns out they manufacture Mini-Max, Laguna HD and others in the same plant under various names.

Meber hasn't made anything for Laguna in quite some time (last century) and they don't make much if anything for SCMi either.

[Jay Houghton]

So what's your point? That may be true but the point I was making is that you need to look beyond the brand name to understand the quality of the machine. Meber is practically unknown in the US. Better to find a saw that has quality engineering and manufacturing and the features you want then look to the brand.

[Stephen Bandirola]

I have a Felder FB610 that I found for a really great price, (I could not justify it at anywhere near full price. garage hobbyist.) So far no drawbacks vs a small saw. I have 1 inch. 1/2inch and 1/4 inch blades they all work perfectly.

[John TenEyck]

For resawing you want a tension spring capable of applying at least 25 ksi to the widest blade you want to use; at least a 1" wide in my world for accurate and efficient resawing. And then you need a frame capable of handling that much force. Not all saws are created equal, even those with steel spines, including a Euro saw that was discussed here a couple of years ago. Laguna HD, Centauro, MM, not likely to go wrong, and even some Grizzly's, like my G06363X.

HP is important unless maybe you have a large enough saw that the wheels weigh a couple hundred pounds. Even then, that only carries you through a few inches of tough wood before the inertia is used up. I think you need 1 HP for every 3 - 4" of resaw height. So for 12" lumber you need at least 3 HP, and more is always better. I have 5 HP on my saw with 16" resaw height, and with 14" stock it just does not slow down, at least hand feeding it as I do.

Blade speed is important, too, in order to carry away the sawdust to allow the blade to cut at maximum rate. Slow is the enemy of blade life. You want to cut as fast as the blade and motor will allow so the sawdust carries away the heat and the blade stays cool, no different than any other cutting operation. 4000 fpm, or higher, blade speed is where you want to be.

John

[Greg Quenneville]

Around here Italian saws are common…because of shop moves I am on my third 24” machine in fact. I have an Agazzani now but have had Mebers and used friends' Centauros and SCM. All of them worked well.

I agree about 3 hp motors on older saws being inadequate for easy resawing and will eventually change my own to at least 5 h.p.

[Kevin Jenness]

Here's one in your area https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1599005083951327/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A760c3898-b2de-4cea-8e7c-e77785e1c6a1

Lots of old steel Rockwell and Powermatic 20" machines out there. If you have the room, the older American cast iron saws are excellent. I had a Crescent 36 for a long time, traded it in on a minimax 16 to gain some space back but the Crescent is the nicer saw and the old Wright hardened steel guides put the stock Euro guides and the modern Carter ball bearing guides to shame.

[Albert Lee]

I had a few bandsaws in the past.. partly due to size of the shop and mistake on my behalf selling my bandsaw that I shouldnt be selling...

SCM S440, smaller brother of s600
Wadkin B7
Sicar Top 6
Taiwanese 600 series

anyhow, my current badsaw is a Meber 600, its great, similar to 600 series.

my favourite is the Wadkin B7. unfortunately it was way too big for my shop.

[lou sansone]

I’ve had a few bandsaw‘s
A 20 inch American bandsaw from early 1900’s a modern 24 inch Italian bandsaw and now I have a 36 inch American bandsaw made by Moak. with a super slow speed motor

I love the cast iron bandsaws. nothing compares to them in my opinion. The Italian bandsaws are boxy and pretty boring looking . The Cast iron saws are beautiful with their curves. the Tannewitz is the same kind of big heavy cast-iron saw. they’re fantastic, and the same goes for the Oliver saws and the Yates snowflakes

[Jay Houghton]

I've tried most of them. Euro, Laguna, roller, and I finally ended up with the Carter CP-30. Not cheap but you can adjust them to extremely tight tolerance between the rub block and blade. The effect is to scrape the blade of any dust, debris, sap that accumulates on the blade. For those doing a lot of resawing you can get carbide blocks. My first Delta 14" saw was from the 40's and I immediately replaced the old style guides but now I see the wisdom of how they did it in the "old days"!
Jay503733503734

[lou sansone]

for large bandsaws consider the paddock guides. they are fantastic

The Paddock Tool Co. Inc. | Band Saw Guides | Topeka, KS (https://paddocktool.com/)

lou

[lou sansone]

I have had a few bandsaws, including the Italian ones. Consider used American cast iron ones. Personally I prefer them over the euro ugly steel bandsaws. I really like the Moak super 36” with the 5 hp direct drive super slow speed ( 30 hp frame) moter that I have

[Tom Trees]

I have had a few bandsaws, including the Italian ones. Consider used American cast iron ones. Personally I prefer them over the euro ugly steel bandsaws. I really like the Moak super 36” with the 5 hp direct drive super slow speed ( 30 hp frame) moter that I have

Bit difficult on the logistics end though, well at least for me.

I'd chance a guess a good percentage of folks who've moved on from the Italian machines to old'arn,
were using carbide blades exclusively, thus muddying the waters in relation to the performance of the machine, ceramic guides, same deal again too,
and if regular blades were used instead, then they might show something up...

Especially if the saw was bought used and the camber was worn off, that's a recipe for compression of the set,
not to mention lousy performance in relation to beam tension, which makes for a very noticeable difference using said blade, with damaged set,
comparing vulcanized flat tires to crowned ones, (ala copying the profile of the spare Centauro CO600 tire I have, with an offset crown apex 1mm closer to the front of the wheel)

Such a difference, night and day whilst resawing some wet ash with a hefty gauge 3/4" 3TPI blade, what's not really suited for the job,
and I only got about two or three inches into the timber before it refused to cut,
whilst after crowning the tires thereafter, managed to get through it using that very blade.

There's other factors there too, wheel alignment being a lottery on any bandsaw with a non adjustable flange mount motor,
and none of us are on the same page here.
The best we've got to go on is folks like John and some other folks,
should some be honest about things and not making excuses, who can honestly attest to achieving the performance there,
and I'm talking about the exact same Grizzly saw as that one,
I think I can recall of a few owners of "the same machine" :rolleyes:, ahem, .... before.

As from the sounds of it, John has mentioned Mario Martins (utoober with a Sicar Top 7) saw was cutting slowly, lol!
or Kris DeVo with the LT HD24" machine using the power feeder for instance, which I might have mentioned before,
Those results are about as good as I've seen, so John's comment was an interesting one to me.

All the best
Tom