Commissioning A3-31 vs. A3-41

[Christopher Charles]

Hi all,

I’m on the cusp of ordering a new J/P and am considering both the Hammer 31 and 41. I’m curious about folk’s experience setting these up-the internet and Felder indicate the A3-41 is more likely to need adjustment, which apparently takes “fiddly” to a new level. The Felder fee is $1100 to commission, a flat fee regardless of location.

I’m hoping to hear from folks with either machine about how well aligned it was when it arrived. I’ve read near every post here but tough to tell if there’s a big difference between the two models or not.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

[Sebastien La Madeleine]

Hi Christopher,

When I purchased my A3, the comissioning was not offered and I spent many hours getting it going and set up. The adjustments from the factory were not satisfactory to me. To this day I regret not having someone from Felder come over and put it to perfect settings.

I might be an exception but I would definitely have it commissionned.

Sébastien

[Keegan Shields]

Christopher,

These machines aren't hard to setup. I purchased my 41 used, and after several hours bouncing down the road in a trailer, I always take the time to set up each used machine up properly. Its one of those things you only have to do once so it pays to take your time.

Lots of online instructions on how to setup these J/P combo type machines. My machine jointed a sprung joint, so I adjusted that out. I didn't need to adjust the planer bed as it was parallel to the cutter head. I can see paying Felder to do the setup if you are a production shop and have a bunch of machines delivered, but its honestly really simple. Adjusting the jointer only requires tweaking a few bolts.

I held out for a 41 because I wanted the longer beds, but the 16" capacity is nice also. If you have a few thousand dollars laying around, upgrading to a Felder or Format 4 machine is a better use IMO.

I used the method shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEq5C5oovFk

[Steve Catts]

My A3-31 arrived (January 2021) with the infeed table high at the infeed end creating a valley at the cutterhead. Not good. Felder was good and I had a gent (very patient) on the phone with me for close to three hours making the various adjustments and checks.

I kind of agree with Keegan above that the adjustments themselves are not too hard but are FAR from intuitive. I certainly could not go back in with confidence 18 months later. The challenge is that with every small adjustment you make, you need to put it back together to see if you have it where you want it. You may feel that an adjustment is spot on, but it is only when eerything is fully cranked back down that you can tell. The tech and I were certain we had the tables coplanar but after I truly got it back together discovered that the infeed end was a bit low. I can live with that and have not messed with it further. I really would like it to be coplanar so that I don't need to be so deliberate when jointing, but I manage and am getting good joints.

Would I pay $1100? Probably not, the purchase felt like a stretch as it was. I keep waiting for someone who has 'been there, done that' to show up near me in Houston to help me fine tune it to perfection (or close enought!!).

Good luck, you will love the machine!!

[George Yetka]

I picked up my 31 at felder(delaware) and setup myself. There was no setup it was DOB accurate right away. Ive watched videos on adjusting and it didnt seem too bad its unfortunately from the inside rather than the outside. I thought I may need it as my pieces were getting stuck and not moving. Turns out I just needed to make sure the planer table was oiled well. The Hammer surfaces have an interesting texture, they are not perfectly smooth like regular cast. Its a great machine. At the very least dont get the commisioning until you get it home and test it our you may not need it.

I like the Felder Metalglanze for this machine

[Keegan Shields]

George - the Hammer surface finish surprised me as well. My other cast iron machine tables are smooth and when waxed are slippery. Seems like Felder skipped a machining step to save some money as I'm pretty sure the more expensive machines have a smoother table finish. Maybe someone can correct me.

Keeping the planer bed waxed is really important on my machine.

[Derek Cohen]

I’ve had my A3-31 for 8 or 9 years now, and the adjustments completed by the Felder agents, here in Perth, remain perfect. I would not have wished to commission any of the Hammer machines I have when brand spanking new (also K3 and N4400), but my mindset is to be able to service them all myself when needed, which I do. I cannot think of anything more frustrating than receiving a new machine, and it needs time to be adjusted before it can be used.

Regarding the -31 vs -41, there have only been a handful of times I wished for a wider table than 12”. I build medium-sized furniture and do not machine-plane glued up panels. I prefer to finish with hand planes. The length of the jointer bed is perfect for my needs. I do not need the extension (which I have). How often does one prepare boards wider than 12”? I like the idea of having a bigger machine, but would struggle to fit it into the workshop.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Wilkins]

Satisfied owner of the A3-41 here. Fortunately my machine was spot-on from the factory; other than cleaning the shipping gunk off the beds all I needed was to wax the beds. The planer bed is more needy of the wax treatment-if boards get hung up while planing its because of friction. You can use the Felder offering or good old-fashioned silicone-free wax.
If I had the coin for the Felder J/P I would consider the commissioning offering-that is a nice but pricey piece of kit.
It's good to have the 16" capacity; not used often but I smile each time I run a board across the beds. And yes I would get the same machine if a UFO crashed into the shop.

[Lisa Starr]

I have the A3-31. It arrive spot on and has needed nothing since. I agree the tables aren't as nicely machined as some other equipment I have, but kept waxed, they work fine.

[Joe Cowan]

My 31 came in with a big dent in a protective cover part, but was perfect from the start.

[Erik Loza]

To the OP, were you given the option to arrange for commish, after delivery, if the machine isn’t cutting the way you want? That’s how I always handled it: “Use the various online resources etc to get the machine dialed in and if it still doesn’t cut the way you want, then let’s set up commisioning”. You might find the machine cuts perfectly, off the pallet.

Erik

[ChrisA Edwards]

My A3-31 was perfect as delivered. Four years later, I haven't yet rotated the carbide cutters.

[Christopher Charles]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feed back, super helpful. Eric, I've found out that, yes, commissioning can be purchased within a reasonable time period after delivery if not cutting well.

Best,
Chris

[Edwin Santos]

I had a Jet 12" j/p &sold it to a friend when i ordered an A3-41. It took about a year for delivery during Covid. The only thing i don't like is that all Hammers come from the factory set for a sprung joint. Over a 4' joint is about 1/16" to 1/8" of an inch. I wish it was less n but i don't want to mess with it.

I'm making a large cribbage table right now (for typing awine barrel). 3x16" sections for one top. I love the extra room.

I had the same experience with the sprung joint. I decided to adjust it, and it was a maddening couple of hours chasing the change each adjustment made because the bed basically sits on four individual points. I didn't eliminate the spring completely, but reduced it to maybe 1/32" over 4ft. Of course, the longer the workpiece, the larger the spring will be, but I suppose the longer workpiece will be more able to close the joint so I suppose it may not be a bad thing. The video someone above linked is a pretty good overview of the adjustment process.

[Clint Baxter]

I have the A3-31 and have never had or needed to adjust. Only thing I’ve ever done is replace a few chipped inserts.

[Chris Parks]

The tech and I were certain we had the tables coplanar but after I truly got it back together discovered that the infeed end was a bit low. I can live with that and have not messed with it further. I really would like it to be coplanar so that I don't need to be so deliberate when jointing, but I manage and am getting good joints.


Steve the infeed table height is a simple fix that won't have any affect on any other settings. Looking at the photo the red pin is the stop and that needs to move slightly. Get the table as high as you can and release the two clamp nuts joined by the blue line then allow the adjustment handle to drop a bit then tighten the two clamp bolts and bring the table up until the table won't lift any further. It will require more than one go unless you are incredibly lucky but it will fix your problem.




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[Alan Kalker]

I have the A3-31. It arrived very well aligned and I have had a little reason to do anything to adjust it in the 10 years I’ve owned it. It is used almost daily. The only thing I’ve done is turn the knives and applied grease where appropriate.

[Julie Moriarty]

I've had the A3-31 for what, 3 years or so? Mine didn't arrive perfectly set up. But it was close enough to use. About 6 months ago I decided to tackle attempting a perfect setup. I spent 3 days, on and off, and finally had what I thought was perfect. I was wrong. So back to the set up. It took a while but I finally got it almost perfect, probably as good as it was when it first arrived.

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm still on the cusp as analysis paralysis has set in about which to pick (which is a good problem to have!)

[George Yetka]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm still on the cusp as analysis paralysis has set in about which to pick (which is a good problem to have!)

31 vs 41?

"I wish I had 4 less inches" said Nobody

I really wish I went 41 it waa 1,000 at the time. I looked into selling mine and upgrading at 1 point but figured it would cost 2500

[Michael Burnside]

31 vs 41?

"I wish I had 4 less inches" said Nobody

I really wish I went 41 it waa 1,000 at the time. I looked into selling mine and upgrading at 1 point but figured it would cost 2500

For jointing, both are plenty wide enough, but I have to agree, 12" is a bit small for a thickness planer of this caliber IMHO. It would be a no brainer for me unless of course funds/space were a limit, then 31 is still a VERY good compromise.

[Rich Konopka]

I purchased an A3-41 after Christmas and received it in March. The extensions were back ordered and I finally received them last week. The setup and tolerances of the machine was pretty accurate straightforward and the machine does not have any dips or imperfections. The beds need thorough cleaning and several coats of wax. A creeker noted about the finish on top that it is not that great and they might have missed a step. I would have to agree that the top finish could be much better for this machine. My previous jointer was. DJ20 and its top when waxed was slick and smooth. The A3-41 while it is smooth is not comparable to my old DJ20.

I had the same concern of the machine being out of alignment and requiring a tech to fly in and adjust the machine and paying another $1000+ . I decided that I would purchase the machine and take a wait and see approach.

You can PM me if you have any other questions.

Cheers

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks Rick and all. And lol-George, that's spot on...I'm leaning heavily toward cry once with the A3-41. My sense from SMC and elsewhere is that nearly all folks are happy with their machines (or that any issues were within reason), but that some folks got lemons. At least some of the noise on-line about both build quality and quality of service from Felder seems to date to Covid times. But getting a 900 lbs lemon stinks. Just much less out there on Minimax, presumably because they are not selling as many units. The pricing difference is enough that MM is out for me, though if it was close, I'd definitely consider.

I have some travel coming up and want to make sure it arrives when I'm here. I also want have time to put it through the paces shortly after delivery so any issues are addressed straight-away. I am planning to cross my fingers and see how it looks rather than paying for the commissioning up front.