R.I.P. Slab Slayer surfacing bit

[Brad Schmid]

Has anyone tried this spoilboard/surfacing bit, or this brand in general? I just learned of this and am hearing good things of the geometry of the inserts, the shape, and the reports that it runs cooler, but I found no mention of it on the Sawmillcreek forums.
https://www.ripprecisiontools.com/product-page/2-5-surfacing-bit-slab-slayer-1-2-shank
Bonus - I just realized these guys are within 20 miles of where I live... (Spring, Tx).

Regards,
Brad

[Jim Becker]

I've never heard of them, but it's a very attractive looking piece of tooling and if the quality matches what seems to be evident in the photo, it could be a good option. Maybe a field trip is in order for you? :) :D You know...for research to benefit the masses?

[Tom M King]

Looks like a mini version of the disks used on tree feller/bunchers.

https://www.loggingon.net/news/logging-information-tooth-and-disk-systems-for-feller-bunchers/

[Patrick Varley]

Has anyone tried this spoilboard/surfacing bit, or this brand in general? I just learned of this and am hearing good things of the geometry of the inserts, the shape, and the reports that it runs cooler, but I found no mention of it on the Sawmillcreek forums.
https://www.ripprecisiontools.com/product-page/2-5-surfacing-bit-slab-slayer-1-2-shank
Bonus - I just realized these guys are within 20 miles of where I live... (Spring, Tx).

Regards,
Brad

Very interesting. I use an Amana insert surfacing bit, which works well. This one is $100 cheaper than the 2.5" Amana, so seems intriguing just on price alone. Improved performance would be an added bonus.

[eugene thomas]

these post alwice coast me money but resestence is fitile.

[Brad Schmid]

I've never heard of them, but it's a very attractive looking piece of tooling and if the quality matches what seems to be evident in the photo, it could be a good option. Maybe a field trip is in order for you? :) :D You know...for research to benefit the masses?

Ya know, that's a good idea! I think I'm going to give them a call this week and see if they have a real presence and are willing to have me come see. Will give me a reason to skip work too ;)

[Mark Gibney]

From the thread title I thought your router tooling had bit the dust.
No, haven't tried this brand but looks a serious piece of tooling.

[Michael Burnside]

No but the 3.75” surfacing bit may be in my future.

[Brad Schmid]

Very interesting. I use an Amana insert surfacing bit, which works well. This one is $100 cheaper than the 2.5" Amana, so seems intriguing just on price alone. Improved performance would be an added bonus.

Interestingly enough, the individual that told me about this also uses Amana surfacer bits (RC 2263 and 2265). He acknowledges the Amana is a good bit also but finds himself now using this one more often. The things he mentioned about this were slightly longer shaft, and the cutter geometry allowed it to run a bit cooler, and it has a wider cut path.

[Richard Coers]

I would be worried about the engineering since they also sell a 1 3/8" surfacing bit with a 1/4" shank. The amount of chucking surface contact for that size cutter is a disaster looking to happen in my opinion.

[Michael Burnside]

I would be worried about the engineering since they also sell a 1 3/8" surfacing bit with a 1/4" shank. The amount of chucking surface contact for that size cutter is a disaster looking to happen in my opinion.

There are numerous, quality made surfacing bits offering 1-1/2” bits with 1/4” shaft. Respectfully I disagree with you. If you’re going to hog off 50 thou off an oak slab, this isn’t the best tool, but if it’s quality steel, it’s fine for a lot of tasks.

[Mel Fulks]

Richard makes a good point. I’ve used the 1/4 with large bits ,and one ,started to fly out like canary through an un-closed front door.
I now tighten more tightly. You can ,of course , just really tighten down, but that wears out the collet . So really not suitable for ‘oft used ‘
bits. Hope that helps …a bit

[Michael Burnside]

Richard makes a good point. I’ve used the 1/4 with large bits ,and one ,started to fly out like canary through an un-closed front door.
I now tighten more tightly. You can ,of course , just really tighten down, but that wears out the collet . So really not suitable for ‘oft used ‘
bits. Hope that helps …a bit

Mel, you should always use a torque wrench, at a minimum, when using flycutters. You can get away with "good and tight" but you better be careful about DOC and chipload. As you say, too tight can damage the collet, but you'd be surprised to find that most quality made collets have recommended torques you can't easily get with the small spanner wrenches that come with them :D

[Mel Fulks]

Michael, I have never used “fly cutters”. Had to look them up ! I thought we talkin’ ordinary router bits !! Thanks for your caution.
I hand ground shaper bits for years ,and also used corrugated. Incidentally I just happen to have 3 custom made 4 and 1/2 inch ( of
slightly different sizes ) that make it possible to get the cut at exactly the right spot .

[Kevin Jenness]

I guess you can get away with a 1/4" shank on a 1 1/2" surfacing bit, but why would you want to given a choice? Maybe it would be appropriate for a low powered router that will only accept 1/4" collets and will stall out before snapping the shank. I would be more comfortable with a larger shank in case of unplanned overloading. It's all too easy to specify an overly deep cut or high feed speed when designing a toolpath or plow into a hard knot or high spot in a hardwood slab. Even if a properly torqued collet will hold the bit the small shank will flex more under load and be at greater risk of breakage.

[Jim Becker]

They offer the smaller tooling with .25" shank because there actually is a demand for it. There are some folks who need that combination and it's likely fine for very light duty work. That said, I personally wouldn't use that.

I'm actually trying to decide whether to use the current Amana insert cutter I have for my CNC (1.25") or to get something slightly larger for my slab flattening setup. Since I'm using a 12 amp DeWalt DW618 on that, It's not likely a good idea to go much bigger, however.

[Kevin Jenness]

They offer the smaller tooling with .25" shank because there actually is a demand for it. There are some folks who need that combination and it's likely fine for very light duty work. That said, I personally wouldn't use that.

I'm actually trying to decide whether to use the current Amana insert cutter I have for my CNC (1.25") or to get something slightly larger for my slab flattening setup. Since I'm using a 12 amp DeWalt DW618 on that, It's not likely a good idea to go much bigger, however.

I have a 2.25" Amana surfacer. It does save a lot of time when flattening the spoilboard, but it can bog down the PC 7518 router on my Stinger with a heavy cut. You may be just as happy with a deeper cut on the 1.25" bit using the DeWalt. I wonder though if the Slab Slayer is a more efficient design requiring less power.

[Michael Burnside]

Michael, I have never used “fly cutters”. Had to look them up ! I thought we talkin’ ordinary router bits !! Thanks for your caution.
I hand ground shaper bits for years ,and also used corrugated. Incidentally I just happen to have 3 custom made 4 and 1/2 inch ( of
slightly different sizes ) that make it possible to get the cut at exactly the right spot .

No worries, understood Mel. Cheers

[Bill Dufour]

Looks like a face mill cutter to me or a shell mill cutter. I suppose the angles are different for wood then metal.
Bill D.

https://www.amazon.com/Cutter-Degree-Flutes-Milling-Inserts/dp/B079QM82KY

[Michael Burnside]

I guess you can get away with a 1/4" shank on a 1 1/2" surfacing bit, but why would you want to given a choice? Maybe it would be appropriate for a low powered router that will only accept 1/4" collets and will stall out before snapping the shank. I would be more comfortable with a larger shank in case of unplanned overloading. It's all too easy to specify an overly deep cut or high feed speed when designing a toolpath or plow into a hard knot or high spot in a hardwood slab. Even if a properly torqued collet will hold the bit the small shank will flex more under load and be at greater risk of breakage.

Kevin, you’re not wrong. I’m just saying if you’re surfacing an MDF spoilboard and you have a quality collet with little runout then you’re ok to use these in that circumstance.

Some also don’t have a choice using 1/2” so the demand is there when properly used.

[Jim Becker]

I have a 2.25" Amana surfacer. It does save a lot of time when flattening the spoilboard, but it can bog down the PC 7518 router on my Stinger with a heavy cut. You may be just as happy with a deeper cut on the 1.25" bit using the DeWalt. I wonder though if the Slab Slayer is a more efficient design requiring less power.
Yes, that's the concern I have on the flattening setup. The 1.7kw spindle on my Stinger II could handle a larger tool for spoil board work, but for whatever reason I bought the 1.25" cutter "way back when". I rarely cut more than a mm or two for depth of cut anyway.

[Michael Burnside]

Jim if you’re only taking 0.10-0.15 or so for a maintenance cut on your MDF spoilboard I think you’re fine. Maybe next time when you make a new board pickup a larger 1/2 shank 2-1/2” fly cutter. If for no other reason than that it finishes the whole board faster

[Richard Coers]

They offer the smaller tooling with .25" shank because there actually is a demand for it.
Demand does not make it safe. 500071500072500073500074

[Kevin Jenness]

Demand does not make it safe. 500071500072500073500074

Whoa, Nellybelle. I'm glad I wasn't in the room for those rapid unscheduled deformations.

[Alex Zeller]

I have a CMT surfacer but it's a 12mm shank. My cnc has a spindle so finding a 12mm collet is easy. I don't know if you can find one for a router. It's 2 3/8" diameter with carbide inserts for about $75. I've used mine for sufacing my spoil board and flatting plenty of slabs without any signs of wear.

[Jim Becker]

Demand does not make it safe.

I don't disagree and said I'd never use something like that. But remember, there are people out there who will do things that many, if not most of us, would not consider.

[Brad Schmid]

Update:
I called and talked to one of the 2 owners of the R.I.P. business. They do not have a storefront. They don't do a lot of marketing, but what they do is mostly via Social media. They have their "roots" in the metal working side of the bit business. To make a long story shorter, basically they do not have any in house manufacturing. The tooling up cost to get started was just too expensive, therefore they contract their product (currently about 70 different bits) out for manufacture. However, the good thing is, they contract out the majority of their bits to US manufacturers with a few being sourced to manufacturers from Portugal, Spain and i believe he said Syria. The only reason those few are sourced outside the US is because they couldn't find the tooling and expertise with US manufacturers to make those specific bits to their requirements. None are sourced from China. Contrast that with Amana, I understand those are sourced also some from Portugal and many from China.

I have placed an order with them for the 2.5 inch Slab Slayer (1/2" shank) bit. I'll be looking forward to giving it a try.

[Michael Burnside]

I don't disagree either, but I do have a problem when people say quality, US steel bits are too expensive and then complain when the cheap bits, like those above, break or bend. Even this is in the context of using properly. Some of the pictures above have a straight cut bit proud by > 1" from the base LOL.

[Richard Coers]

Update:
I called and talked to one of the 2 owners of the R.I.P. business. They do not have a storefront. They don't do a lot of marketing, but what they do is mostly via Social media. They have their "roots" in the metal working side of the bit business. To make a long story shorter, basically they do not have any in house manufacturing. The tooling up cost to get started was just too expensive, therefore they contract their product (currently about 70 different bits) out for manufacture. However, the good thing is, they contract out the majority of their bits to US manufacturers with a few being sourced to manufacturers from Portugal, Spain and i believe he said Syria. The only reason those few are sourced outside the US is because they couldn't find the tooling and expertise with US manufacturers to make those specific bits to their requirements. None are sourced from China. Contrast that with Amana, I understand those are sourced also some from Portugal and many from China.

I have placed an order with them for the 2.5 inch Slab Slayer (1/2" shank) bit. I'll be looking forward to giving it a try.
Where is the slab slayer sourced from? Do they have engineers on staff or outsource that too? I have little confidence on a company that centers its marketing on social media. I actually refuse to look at social media ads and not exactly a company that markets to professional shops where bits really get tested. You get what you pay for from China. Ask for dirt cheap and you get that, ask for high quality certified and you get that.

[Richard Coers]

There are numerous, quality made surfacing bits offering 1-1/2” bits with 1/4” shaft. Respectfully I disagree with you. If you’re going to hog off 50 thou off an oak slab, this isn’t the best tool, but if it’s quality steel, it’s fine for a lot of tasks.
Could you please link to those companies that sell high quality 1 1/2bits with 1/4" shanks. If you read my first post I reject the 1/4" shaft due to the small amount of contact area in the collet, not the steel.

[Brad Schmid]

Where is the slab slayer sourced from? Do they have engineers on staff or outsource that too? I have little confidence on a company that centers its marketing on social media. I actually refuse to look at social media ads and not exactly a company that markets to professional shops where bits really get tested. You get what you pay for from China. Ask for dirt cheap and you get that, ask for high quality certified and you get that.

The Slab Slayer they confirmed with me is sourced from a US manufacturer.
I don't speak for them nor am I interested in defending their choices of marketing.
By the way, you make an assumption that they do not "markets to professional shops where bits really get tested".
I would have to say that is False. I learned of this brand/bit from a professional shop that confirmed use of both Amana and R.I.P. bits and is what prompted me to go do my own homework, thus the reason for my original question.

I forgot to add, they have been in business for roughly 3 years.

[Michael Burnside]

Could you please link to those companies that sell high quality 1 1/2bits with 1/4" shanks. If you read my first post I reject the 1/4" shaft due to the small amount of contact area in the collet, not the steel.

Amana RC-2265. I have specifically used this NUMEROUS times surfacing MDF projects before I got my larger and more capable flycutters. Used properly, this bit will be fine. If you want to go milling dense hardwoods, it's the wrong tooling.

Besides that bit, for which I have direct experience, the R.I.P bit you questioned seems of reasonable quality as well. I cannot speak to it directly however.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting 1/4" shanks are equivalent to 1/2 or 3/4, but I am saying if used properly with chipload, material and DOC properly accounted for, they can work just fine.

[Glyn Kinkaid]

Where is the slab slayer sourced from? Do they have engineers on staff or outsource that too? I have little confidence on a company that centers its marketing on social media. I actually refuse to look at social media ads and not exactly a company that markets to professional shops where bits really get tested. You get what you pay for from China. Ask for dirt cheap and you get that, ask for high quality certified and you get that.

We contract with a manufacturer in Houston Tx for the slab slayer line.
We design all of our tools that are non-standard or custom.
We started with a handfull of custom tools we had made because I could not find standard tooling with the specs I needed. We now make and sell about 60 different tools.

And we don't "market" anywhere. What was meant is most of our presence is on social media, mainly instagram and we do have a FB page where we share news, updates and media of our products.
We do not run ads other that one or two sales a year, usually black friday, ect.
We are relativly small and everything goes back into the company in the form or more tools and more stock. The company builds its self, we are debt free.

That said, I can be reach any time at the number on our website. Or send me a message and I will give you my direct line. I am happy to help any way I can and can answer any questions you may have.

I do understand your thinking though. We dont do China either!
We are affordable for 3 reasons.
1> We spend a great deal of time finding manufacturers that can meet our quality standards and our target cost.
2> We dont have our own manufacturing capabilities, therfore we have very little overhead.
3> We don't overcharge for products just because that is what company B sells it for. We have a formula to determine price and we stick to it.
Unlike some of the big tool companies on the woodworking side that overcharge its customers just because they can.

[Glyn Kinkaid]

I have a 2.25" Amana surfacer. It does save a lot of time when flattening the spoilboard, but it can bog down the PC 7518 router on my Stinger with a heavy cut. You may be just as happy with a deeper cut on the 1.25" bit using the DeWalt. I wonder though if the Slab Slayer is a more efficient design requiring less power.

It is definitely alot more efficient!
My name is Glyn and I own R.I.P Precision Tools and designed these tools. The rake angle and goemetry of the body and insert pocket, along with the rake and geometry of the insert are very efficient and as a result leave behind a very smooth finish.

When we tested this version, one of the last test we did was use the load meter on the VFD to see just how much less HP was required compared to our old 2" typical 90° square blade type tool we made previously.
What we found was, given identical material, depth of cut and cut width with both the 2" and the new 2.5" tools? The larger diameter 2.5" ran at 10% less load than the smaller 2" tool.
This is in large part due to the 45° orientation of the insert as well.
There is a huge reduction in friction, heat and noise with the 45° design.
Typical 90° square blade tools have almost 2 inches of carbide blade scraping across the material constantly. It is a HP stealer on smaller HP routers that have no HP to spare!

There is also a bonus that I did not intentionally design. If you have run the 90° style tools of any size on a CNC or any machine with dusct collection? You may have noticed the dust boot gets clogged up alot and a fair amount gets blown outward.

This tool has one of the most impressive vortex effects I have ever seen. All that positive rake angle act as fan creating a strong upward flow.
The latest version we rounded parts of the wing and gave the clearance area a cupped or curved surface to increase the effect.
You can move the router over a pile of chips with not dust boot on and it will still suck up the pile rather than scatter it.

[Brad Schmid]

It is definitely alot more efficient!
My name is Glyn and I own R.I.P Precision Tools and designed these tools. The rake angle and goemetry of the body and insert pocket, along with the rake and geometry of the insert are very efficient and as a result leave behind a very smooth finish.

When we tested this version, one of the last test we did was use the load meter on the VFD to see just how much less HP was required compared to our old 2" typical 90° square blade type tool we made previously.
What we found was, given identical material, depth of cut and cut width with both the 2" and the new 2.5" tools? The larger diameter 2.5" ran at 10% less load than the smaller 2" tool.
This is in large part due to the 45° orientation of the insert as well.
There is a huge reduction in friction, heat and noise with the 45° design.
Typical 90° square blade tools have almost 2 inches of carbide blade scraping across the material constantly. It is a HP stealer on smaller HP routers that have no HP to spare!

There is also a bonus that I did not intentionally design. If you have run the 90° style tools of any size on a CNC or any machine with dusct collection? You may have noticed the dust boot gets clogged up alot and a fair amount gets blown outward.

This tool has one of the most impressive vortex effects I have ever seen. All that positive rake angle act as fan creating a strong upward flow.
The latest version we rounded parts of the wing and gave the clearance area a cupped or curved surface to increase the effect.
You can move the router over a pile of chips with not dust boot on and it will still suck up the pile rather than scatter it.

Thank you Glyn for coming on here and telling a little of your story. I for one am happy to learn of you and am looking forward to trying your bits!

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks Glyn, very interesting. I may have to pickup the 3.75 version!

[Glyn Kinkaid]

Thanks Glyn, very interesting. I may have to pickup the 3.75 version!

The 3.75" is a beast of a tool. The body is a bit thicker percentage wise than the 2.5" version. But the flute and pocket geometries are identical.
For reference, the 2.5" wieght is 8 oz and the 3.75" wieght is 23 oz.

Both the 2.5" and 3.75" can plunge .437" and that is also the max pass depth.
The 1.375" version can technically do the same but realistically, the spindles and router running that tool need to be in the sub 1/8" range.
The 1.375" version also ships with warning labels and instructions on not extending the tool further than .25" incase anyone is curious.
I read the comments about the 1/4" shank and all are valid points.
However, that tool is perfectly safe when operated according to manufacture specifications, including tool extension.

[George Yetka]

I have the whiteside I bought full price($80) but I often see it on sale at woodcraft for around $50. It works very well for me

[eugene thomas]

I got the 2.5" bit few days ago. worked good on spoilboard surfacing.

[Brad Schmid]

I got the 2.5" bit few days ago. worked good on spoilboard surfacing.

I received mine too but I won't have a chance to use it for a while, i need to finish up some other things first. It looks very well made, I was quite impressed.

[Richard Coers]

Had this low cost alternative bit show up on my Facebook page. Could be a good alternative to the slab slayer at less than half the price. https://spetools.com/collections/spetool-spoilboard-flattening-bit/products/spetool-w05003-spoilboard-ats-coated-insert-carbide-4-wing-surfacing-router-bit?variant=41797096407223

[Robert Hayward]

Had this low cost alternative bit show up on my Facebook page.
The linked bit appears to be just another four insert spoil board bit. The Slab Slayer bit has the inserts set in a diamond shape. Plus the Slab Slayer inserts are ground in a cup shape much like the carbide cutters that the Hunter lathe turning tools use.

Not sure which one does the better job, maybe neither. I have a bit similar to the one you linked to and also have a Slab Slayer. Neither if which has been used yet. I have two projects waiting for me to muster enough ambition to start on that I will use one or maybe both of the bits on.

[Richard Coers]

The linked bit appears to be just another four insert spoil board bit. The Slab Slayer bit has the inserts set in a diamond shape. Plus the Slab Slayer inserts are ground in a cup shape much like the carbide cutters that the Hunter lathe turning tools use.

Not sure which one does the better job, maybe neither. I have a bit similar to the one you linked to and also have a Slab Slayer. Neither if which has been used yet. I have two projects waiting for me to muster enough ambition to start on that I will use one or maybe both of the bits on.
I just posted it as an economy option. No agenda.