Taco bell will not take orders or cash

[Bill Dufour]

Went to taco bell today with my wife. You had to order from a touch screen, no employee help. Screwed up too much so we left. I asked. they do not take cash. Cards only. So we went to real taqaria a few blocks away.
BilL D.

[Jim Becker]

I'm surprised you have not experienced this kind of thing previously. It's normal around here and has been for a long time now. A large part of it came from staffing challenges, although it started in a serious way with the need/desire for "contactless" delivery during the darker days of the pandemic. For many of these fast food restaurants, it's been more effective to put the staff they can get into the kitchen and and delivery windows. Some places here also don't take cash, but will if necessary if one can wait to get a manager to open a register for that purpose. Most customers, even without the need to self order, don't use cash, however. BTW, my comments are not about Taco Bell since there isn't one nearby anyway. It's across all the brands.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I walked out of the Library in a bad mood, with no book, a day or two after the card catalogue had been taken away. It took me a month to want to go back. Fortunately one of the kids came with me. Taco Bell is still Old School near us, some McDonalds have modernized.

[Jim Koepke]

I won't use the Taco Bell self order touch screen. It took me a long time when all I wanted was a soda. Another guy was ordering on a separate screen when I walked in and finished his order when my soda was being delivered. He ordered from the breakfast menu. When he asked about his order, which he paid for at the touch screen, the counter person told him the breakfast menu is only available before noon. It was a little after noon.

If Taco Bell has a difficult time keeping employees behind the counter, they need to find out what they are doing to cause their employees to leave.

jtk

[Christopher Herzog]

I ran into this taco bell ordeal recently as well. We left.

Thought about using the drive thru and taking it inside to eat it. They have humans and take cash there.


Chris

[Larry Frank]

I think that this is the way of the future...ordering at a screen or ordering online. The minimum wage level, the quality of the employee and willingness to work are causing problems.

I get so frustrated with ordering to a person as they talk to fast, mumble and can not work their machine.

AND......the cost of a hamburger has gone out of sight. Then when you get it, it has been thrown together.

OK.....RANT OFF

[Bill Dufour]

Our mcdonalds tried the order screen kiosk. Took longer to figure it out and place order, still had to wait in line to pick up. They took them out in a few months.
Bill D

[Dave Zellers]

Our mcdonalds tried the order screen kiosk. Took longer to figure it out and place order, still had to wait in line to pick up. They took them out in a few months.
Bill D

Exactly how it is supposed to work. Take your business elsewhere. Only took a couple months for them to get the message. The in-store ordering kiosks are a royal pain, (from my 1 or 2 experiences), but using your phone is completely different IMO. Order before you even get there and then just pick it up.

[Alex Zeller]

I rarely eat at fast food places but the few times I have I've seen more and more people ordering from the touch screens than in person. It's like anything, as you do it you get use to it. Several local chain gas stations around here have also gone to a kiosk for ordering food (like grinders). I actually prefer it over having someone take my order. It's quicker, with a half dozen kiosks I never have to wait in line to order. I suspect that we'll see more and more automation reducing the need for actual workers at places like McD's.

[Curt Harms]

I rarely eat at fast food places but the few times I have I've seen more and more people ordering from the touch screens than in person. It's like anything, as you do it you get use to it. Several local chain gas stations around here have also gone to a kiosk for ordering food (like grinders). I actually prefer it over having someone take my order. It's quicker, with a half dozen kiosks I never have to wait in line to order. I suspect that we'll see more and more automation reducing the need for actual workers at places like McD's.

I think you're right, Alex. An unfortunate byproduct of that is kids that don't have a clue how the world outside their phones actually work and how to function within it. A lot of young people's first work experience is fast food and convenience stores.

[Jim Becker]

Our mcdonalds tried the order screen kiosk. Took longer to figure it out and place order, still had to wait in line to pick up. They took them out in a few months.
Bill D
All the Micky-Ds in our area are exclusively self-order and pay at kiosks or via their app. If anything, business traffic is higher, although a big part of that is because folks actually walk in the stores now.

[Bill Dufour]

All the Micky-Ds in our area are exclusively self-order and pay at kiosks or via their app.
Can you pay cash?
years ago Arco had the ability to pay cash at the pump. Took those out a long time ago. Forces customers to go inside so they can do impulse purchases.
The Kiosks theory may be you will figure out the one you go to most often and hesitate to go to a different fast food place you do not know how to order from.
Bill D

[Rob Luter]

I avoid fast food joints like the plague. My only exception is The Golden Arches for an occasional Breakfast Burrito from the drive-through. When that becomes a kiosk I'm done.

For what it's worth, our local Mac's franchises used to have a crew of 10 for breakfast. Covid and demands for unsustainable wage increases taught them how to get by with three. kiosks and doubling the prices was part of the calculus.

[Jim Becker]

Can you pay cash?

Not at the kiosk. They have a bell you can ring at the counter if you insist on cash. A manager will open up the register and take care of the transaction, but there have been a few times that there have been signs indicating no cash transactions because of staffing. More and more businesses are less interested in cash, too, because (for them) the electronic transactions are more secure and not easily affected by employee theft.

In all honesty, I don't have even a single dollar of cash on me right now...I gave a gratuity to the two guys who delivered our new refrigerator last week and that used up the very small amount of "emergency" cash I keep stashed in my wallet. I use ApplePay or a card for pretty much all retail and online transactions. That's not everyone's cup of tea I understand, but I prefer the convenience of using my watch to pay over digging into my wallet.

[roger wiegand]

Sounds like a win-win-win-- real food vs Taco Bell and pay the way you like. And support a local business. I prefer to use ApplePay for almost everything, its much more secure than a physical credit card and way more convenient than cash, but I'll definitely put up with a little inconvenience for a real taco.

[Brian Elfert]

I walked out of the Library in a bad mood, with no book, a day or two after the card catalogue had been taken away. It took me a month to want to go back. Fortunately one of the kids came with me. Taco Bell is still Old School near us, some McDonalds have modernized.

I spent many summer days at the local library as a teenager in the late 1980s. I can't recall exactly, but I think the card catalogs were already gone at that point and they were already using terminals to access the catalog.

[Jim Koepke]

I guess the sentence about, "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private," doesn't mean what it used to mean.

Maybe some worker organization will take them to court for not taking "legal tender."

jtk

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Our favorite Vietnamese place stayed open all through covid. They stopped taking cash to avoid touching money. They have a small staff. Their bone broth was a favorite when folks were sick and you could get contactless curbside pickup. A lot has changed. I often feel like I am holding up the line when I pay with cash. I still use cash at certain shops where I know the owners appreciate it. Someone at Menards paid with a check yesterday. There was an audible groan from the long line of people waiting. It was nice not to be in a hurry.

[Jim Koepke]

Someone at Menards paid with a check yesterday. There was an audible groan from the long line of people waiting.

I remember way back when there seemed to be two types of people paying by check in a store. There were those that would have the check all made out except the amount. Then there were those who would wait until everything had been rung up before looking through their purse or pockets to find their checkbook.

We are close to running out of the checks we ordered fifteen years ago before moving. We still have no problem using them even though they have an out of state address and are drawn on a bank that went out of business more than a decade ago.

jtk

[Brian Tymchak]

In all honesty, I don't have even a single dollar of cash on me right now...I gave a gratuity to the two guys who delivered our new refrigerator last week and that used up the very small amount of "emergency" cash I keep stashed in my wallet. I use ApplePay or a card for pretty much all retail and online transactions. That's not everyone's cup of tea I understand, but I prefer the convenience of using my watch to pay over digging into my wallet.

Same. My only cash transaction is to my barber. He only accepts cash and checks. When he retires (he's 80) I will be cash free.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My daughter and I like ordering from the touch screen. She always puts a funny name when it asks. Once she put “John Cena,” and the crew got a kick out of it. That said, my Taco Bell does have the option to order from a “real person.” (This is the world we live in- I just said “order from a real person” like that’s totally normal to say.)

My one complaint is that EVERY SINGLE TIME they give us our order but not the drink cups. Every. Single. Time.

[Brian Elfert]

I guess the sentence about, "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private," doesn't mean what it used to mean.

A retail sale is not debt. If Taco Bell sold you some food on credit and you went to pay the debt then technically they would have to take the cash.

[Patty Hann]

Not at the kiosk. They have a bell you can ring at the counter if you insist on cash. A manager will open up the register and take care of the transaction, but there have been a few times that there have been signs indicating no cash transactions because of staffing. More and more businesses are less interested in cash, too, because (for them) the electronic transactions are more secure and not easily affected by employee theft.

In all honesty, I don't have even a single dollar of cash on me right now...I gave a gratuity to the two guys who delivered our new refrigerator last week and that used up the very small amount of "emergency" cash I keep stashed in my wallet. I use ApplePay or a card for pretty much all retail and online transactions. That's not everyone's cup of tea I understand, but I prefer the convenience of using my watch to pay over digging into my wallet.

Hijack warning...Jim what is a reasonable gratuity for such service (whatever is being delivered)?
I haven't had anything big delivered in the last 15 years, but may need to do so in the near future.
So I need some guidance on this. Thanks

[Andrew More]

Unfortunately I don't see that going away. People are expensive, and only going to get more so with all the people retiring. Labor particupation rate is at an all time low, and the demographics say it's not coming back anytime soon, unless we open the borders or something. Automating the order taking is probably the cheapest and easiest way for them to save money. The alternative is to really raise prices, which nobody seems to want.

I must admit I'm a bit surprised at the no cash approach. Visa/Master card have an effective "tax" on all commerce at this point, due to their gatekeeping status as the major credit card operators. So they get a nice cut, which cash avoids. Maybe the corps behind the fast food joints were able to cut a deal? Anyway, I like to pay cash when I can at mom and pops so they can keep a little more.

Now that pot is all but legalized, I don't see as much reason to keep cash a thing to avoid the government monitoring all transactions.

[Jim Becker]

I will add that I stop at a relatively new local Taqueria for a couple of fresh carnitas tacos occasionally for lunch. Very delicious. The place is owned by a local family. Even their kids "work" there...

[Jim Becker]

Hijack warning...Jim what is a reasonable gratuity for such service (whatever is being delivered)?
I haven't had anything big delivered in the last 15 years, but may need to do so in the near future.
So I need some guidance on this. Thanks
In this case with the new fridge it was only $15 (and, um...all ones) since that's what I had, but typically I give delivery folks a twenty which can cover most of a lunch for two folks. This is for things like appliance delivery; big machine delivery, etc., where there is extra service involved, not the regular box-shufflers that are frequently at our door.

[Patty Hann]

In this case with the new fridge it was only $15 (and, um...all ones) since that's what I had, but typically I give delivery folks a twenty which can cover most of a lunch for two folks. This is for things like appliance delivery; big machine delivery, etc., where there is extra service involved, not the regular box-shufflers that are frequently at our door.

Thank you :)

[Patty Hann]

Unfortunately I don't see that going away. People are expensive, and only going to get more so with all the people retiring. Labor particupation rate is at an all time low, and the demographics say it's not coming back anytime soon, unless we open the borders or something. Automating the order taking is probably the cheapest and easiest way for them to save money. The alternative is to really raise prices, which nobody seems to want.

I must admit I'm a bit surprised at the no cash approach. Visa/Master card have an effective "tax" on all commerce at this point, due to their gatekeeping status as the major credit card operators. So they get a nice cut, which cash avoids. Maybe the corps behind the fast food joints were able to cut a deal? Anyway, I like to pay cash when I can at mom and pops so they can keep a little more.

Now that pot is all but legalized, I don't see as much reason to keep cash a thing to avoid the government monitoring all transactions.

Debit cards are basically cash, correct?
And I don't think the merchant is charged a fee for accepting those (unlike the 3% or so for the CC purchases)
But I could be wrong about a "no fee" charge to the merchant.

I have a debit card.... somewhere....
I never use one. CC or cash; but usually CC because I get anywhere from a 1-3% "cash-back savings" from Visa every time I use it.
Saving is tallied in points, but there is a cash redemption option (and no loss of points value).
So I cash out the "cash -back" savings every 3-6 months, which is sent directly to my savings account.

[Jim Koepke]

Hijack warning...Jim what is a reasonable gratuity for such service (whatever is being delivered)?
I haven't had anything big delivered in the last 15 years, but may need to do so in the near future.
So I need some guidance on this. Thanks

Patty, Google > proper tip for appliance delivery < or any other service. Mostly it is 10-20% depending on how well they did. Do note that some of the big box stores do not allow tipping. My brothers and I worked for years delivering furniture and appliances and I do not recall anyone every offering a tip. When I installed phones for the telephone company one customer offered me a tip and I refused since that was a common thing for hired revue service people to do and we were not supposed to accept tips.


Unfortunately I don't see that going away. People are expensive, and only going to get more so with all the people retiring. Labor particupation rate is at an all time low, and the demographics say it's not coming back anytime soon, unless we open the borders or something. Automating the order taking is probably the cheapest and easiest way for them to save money. The alternative is to really raise prices, which nobody seems to want.

I must admit I'm a bit surprised at the no cash approach. Visa/Master card have an effective "tax" on all commerce at this point, due to their gatekeeping status as the major credit card operators. So they get a nice cut, which cash avoids. Maybe the corps behind the fast food joints were able to cut a deal? Anyway, I like to pay cash when I can at mom and pops so they can keep a little more.

Now that pot is all but legalized, I don't see as much reason to keep cash a thing to avoid the government monitoring all transactions.

Interesting, my state, Washington, has the highest minimum wage in the nation, $15.74/hr, yet it hasn't seemed to put anyone out of business.

Yes, some grocery chains now have self checkout.

Taco Bell, Burger King et al haven't gotten too outrageous with their prices. Candy & I ate at an Applebee's about a week ago, my first time. Candy looked at the bill and thought it was quite reasonable. She is the tight wad between the two of us, though I am frugal. The service was exceptional as was the food. When the waiter asked me how my meal was as he dropped off the check, I told him. "I am most excellently satiated." He was also left a decent tip.

One of the greatest effects on "labor participation" is the aging of the work force. The year 2000 was the highest participation year since the statistic has been tracked. That was also when many baby boomers were starting to look toward retirement. My employment and pension would let us retire at 50. Many in law enforcement have 50 as a retirement age because of the danger involved in their work.

People are retiring faster than younger people are coming of age to take their jobs.

jtk

[Patty Hann]

@Jim Koepke... (I already thanked Jim B.:D)
Thank you... I know how to tip for meals, sky-caps, [hotel] maid service (routine service, not room service which is an extravagance for my budget), etc.
Just didn't know how to do it for the the ginormous object delivery.

[Bill McNiel]

[QUOTE=

Now that pot is all but legalized, I don't see as much reason to keep cash a thing to avoid the government monitoring all transactions.[/QUOTE]

Here in Washington all the weed stores take cash only. I believe it has to do with Federal laws vs. State laws.

[Bill Dufour]

I believe the cash only pot thing is the baks are scared that if they cash checks from pot sellers their federal banking license can be revoked. The feds at any tome could decide to enforce the federal anti pot laws. For some reason they just decided to ignore those laws in states that legalized it. California was talking about creating a state chartered bank for pot sellers. Pot shops have a huge cash flow problem. There is really no legal way to put their profits to use without money laundering.
Bill D
Bill D

[Jim Koepke]

Here in Washington all the weed stores take cash only. I believe it has to do with Federal laws vs. State laws.

In Oregon some of them will take plastic. It is usually connected through an on premiss ATM.

It has to do with federal banking laws.

We were in a non-pot selling store a few days ago that used to sell CBD gummies. CBD is the non-psychoactive component of cannabis that has been found to be an effective pain killer. Their bank made them stop selling CBD products.

jtk

[Bob Borzelleri]

I don’t carry cash anymore. It just looks so boring. I like Canadian bills; good colors. But, not even colorful bills tend to accumulate in my wallet.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Just FYI in regards to cash being “legal tender for all debts public and private,” that only means that the government will back it for all debts and that it is uniformly accepted. That does not mean that the law says you have to take cash. If I want to barter for chickens, I’m free to do so. I do not have to take cash.

That said, it’s dumb not to take cash, as you save the credit card fees, but just saying it’s not a law that you have to.

[Edwin Santos]

That said, it’s dumb not to take cash, as you save the credit card fees, but just saying it’s not a law that you have to.

I get your point, and mostly agree with you in the case of small, local business.

The caveat - for a corporation that is operating at scale and attempting to embrace the efficiencies of automation, cash complicates things because of handling.
Cash needs to be stored, stocked, transported, deposited, change needs to be given, there is physical theft risk.
Most if not all of this disappears in card and other non-cash transactions, including the cash handling employees and transportation.

Maybe a small % of customers will be alienated, but it's still worth it. And even then, the largest consumer demographics will quickly be comprised of people who are accustomed to living in a cashless, automated world. Your daughter won't give it a second thought and neither will mine.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I first came across this ordering method while visiting England a couple of years ago. Nearly everything there is cashless and order through and app or touch screen. It was a bit awkward at first, but now I love it, although it seems some of the systems here, State side, area little flaky.

It also got me paying by phone, which I use anytime I can.

[Jim Becker]

Patty, Google > proper tip for appliance delivery < or any other service. Mostly it is 10-20% depending on how well they did.

I hope you mean 10-20% of the delivery charge, not the appliance cost! In my case, since I bought the refrigerator from Costco and delivery was free, I used the cash I had on-hand.

[Brian Elfert]

Debit cards are basically cash, correct?
And I don't think the merchant is charged a fee for accepting those (unlike the 3% or so for the CC purchases)
But I could be wrong about a "no fee" charge to the merchant.


There is definitely a fee to the merchant to take a debit card. If it is a true debit card transaction with a PIN the fee is less. If the debit card is charged like a credit card then the fee is often the same as a credit card. I use Square for a small side business and they seem to charge the same for debit and credit cards. I have never had a transaction that asked for PIN when taking a debit card. It is very, very rare that a debit card does not have a Mastercard or Visa logo on it.

[Bill Dufour]

I believe the law in the USA is that unless a sign says different you can pay with cash of any size bills and coins. I believe pennies are excluded. If they say we will not take cash, after they ring you up, legally you can take your item and walk out since they refused payment for a debt. If they have a sign credit cards only and it is right next to the ordering area then you have to pay. Or if they say no bills larger then $50.
Bill D

[Mel Fulks]

Bill, that’s a good point . USA money is “legal tender” by law , and must be accepted.

[Brian Elfert]

I don’t carry cash anymore. It just looks so boring. I like Canadian bills; good colors. But, not even colorful bills tend to accumulate in my wallet.

I had been carrying $30 in my wallet for quite a few years. Somewhere along the way I spent $5. It has been months since I spent any cash. Yesterday I bought a bolt for $1.49 at the hardware store and used cash for the first time in months. Previously I got some cash from Dollar General as a refund because the system was not programmed with the sale price. The cashier couldn't figure out how to credit my card so she gave me cash instead. I used that cash at Walmart as part of my payment.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Bill, that’s a good point . USA money is “legal tender” by law , and must be accepted.

I thought "Pay To The Order Of" was legally binding as well.
Occasionally, when I have a new client, I get a deposit to go and buy materials. I have tried to enforce the "Pay To The Order Of" instruction on a personal check at the clients credit unions several times. Credit unions have a legitimate way to charge non members 5% or 10% to cash a check. I learned to ask credit union folks for a credit card or to have them come along to the store. Our Lowes and Home Depot have both had self check for a while. I don't mind using it but have not tried to use cash.

[Jim Koepke]

I find only a few yard sales will take a credit card. The ones that do are more of a retail operation or an estate sale company than an actual yard sale.

I also find many businesses are more likely to drop a price if you're paying cash.

jtk

[Edwin Santos]

Bill, that’s a good point . USA money is “legal tender” by law , and must be accepted.

Not accurate
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

[Patty Hann]

I find only a few yard sales will take a credit card. The ones that do are more of a retail operation or an estate sale company than an actual yard sale.

I also find many businesses are more likely to drop a price if you're paying cash.jtk

A number of gas stations around here charge a few pennies less (per gal) if you pay cash.
But you have to "go inside" to pay and then (in theory) you will be subject to impulse buying that Slim Jim and Big Gulp.

[Patty Hann]

I hope you mean 10-20% of the delivery charge, not the appliance cost! In my case, since I bought the refrigerator from Costco and delivery was free, I used the cash I had on-hand.

Yes, for few seconds I thought he meant a percent of the price, but then decided it had to be % of delivery fee.

[Mel Fulks]

Edwin, I’m sure you are right ,but there is a lot of nutty stuff in that reference. And the gov. demanded all the real gold be turned in
when it decided that they wanted all of it. So that means it’s better than paper. That’s why THEY hoard it. When you really think about
it Gov. works like the guys in the western movies who only want the gold in the buck-board . They always let the driver keep his Confederate
money, and it’s not because of a warm heart.

[Jim Becker]

Edwin, I’m sure you are right ,but there is a lot of nutty stuff in that reference. .
That's the official Federal Reserve site, so it's not "nutty" in actual facts, even if one might think some things are not what they thought they are. The bottom line is that the Federal Reserve says that businesses are not required to accept cash but by statute US money (cash) is legal for settling debts if they choose to accept it.

[Mel Fulks]

No, look up “legal tender” it means it can’t be refused. The point is you can not demand money ….only fiat money, AKA paper .
People were smart when gold was in circulation…..when was the last time you bit down on a coin to make sure it was silver or gold ?
Used to be common practice.

[Edwin Santos]

Mel, your comments got me to look into this a little further, and it is an interesting topic, not particularly simple.

Some of the things I've learned:

- There is no federal mandate that a business must accept cash

- A handful of states have enacted mandates that require businesses to accept cash. One of the primary reasons is that over 7 million households do not have a checking account let alone a credit card. Many of these households are economically disadvantaged, so the idea of mandating cash acceptance is a form of protection for them.

- Arizona (where I live) has a bill pending that would mandate cash. I found an article from the AZ State Law Journal that discusses the issue.

- The law journal article addresses the Legal Tender argument, which refers to legal tender as settlement of a debt. So the question becomes when is the transaction a debt? Certainly once you have finished a meal and now must pay the bill. But not if you are ordering coffee to go and have not yet taken receipt of a good or service. So in the former the legal tender case may apply but in the latter it does not. Seems to me most all online transactions are occurring before receipt of the good or service, so maybe that's why the legal tender argument is not applicable there?

https://arizonastatelawjournal.org/2023/03/15/is-cash-still-king-proposed-az-bill-to-mandate-businesses-to-accept-cash-payments/

One of the issues here is competing rights. Should the customer have the right to pay in cash if they want, or should the business have the right to deem that it will not accept cash and thus it becomes the customer's choice whether or not to patronize that business? I kinda see both positions.

Another article about this from the Pew Charitable Trusts : https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/05/11/paying-with-cash-retailers-must-take-your-dollars-in-these-states

Interesting topic. Personally I'm sympathetic to the people who have no real alternative other than cash. But I do see the advantages to a business of being cashless, if they can do so and keep their customers.

Going into an Amazon Fresh store is a real trip. Scan your phone QR code on the way in from the Amazon app, pick out your items and simply walk out. The cart and sensors all over the store know what you've taken so there is no checkout. It's a little bizarre; you feel like you're just helping yourself and walking off.

[Bill Dufour]

I got my taxes done and got the refund already. Not due here until Oct 15 due to some disaster law.
There was a statement in the paperwork that the IRS will not take a check for more then 100 million dollars. If you owe more contact them to arrange how to pay. Not a problem many people have.
BilL D

[Bill Dufour]

They shut it down but how about tipping the delivery robots? Drones no way to do it but the wheeled robots could take cash home I suppose.
Bill D

[Mel Fulks]

Edwin,I haven’t read much money lately so I don’t know what it is now selling . But “ legal tender” has alway meant that, by fed law
you must accept it. USA is not the only country to make their money THE only kind of money. I guess we are now so far away from
“real money” that people just don’t know or care as long as the system is working. When “silver certificates “ , were still used , they had
a short statement saying, You could turn in your silver certificates for real silver coins. I don’t think we will see that again.

[Rod Sheridan]

Not at the kiosk. They have a bell you can ring at the counter if you insist on cash. A manager will open up the register and take care of the transaction, but there have been a few times that there have been signs indicating no cash transactions because of staffing. More and more businesses are less interested in cash, too, because (for them) the electronic transactions are more secure and not easily affected by employee theft.

In all honesty, I don't have even a single dollar of cash on me right now...I gave a gratuity to the two guys who delivered our new refrigerator last week and that used up the very small amount of "emergency" cash I keep stashed in my wallet. I use ApplePay or a card for pretty much all retail and online transactions. That's not everyone's cup of tea I understand, but I prefer the convenience of using my watch to pay over digging into my wallet.

Same for me Jim, I now just keep a bit of cash in my wallet for tips or panhandlers.

It’s a lot more convenient to not use cash

[roger wiegand]

I'd gotten a couple hundred dollars in cash for a Craigslist sale back before covid. I just made my first trip to the ATM to get some more cash in over three years. Not necessarily intentionally, but I have for all intents and purposes gone cashless. Tapping the phone is way too easy.

[Curt Harms]

A number of gas stations around here charge a few pennies less (per gal) if you pay cash.
But you have to "go inside" to pay and then (in theory) you will be subject to impulse buying that Slim Jim and Big Gulp.

New Jersey's non-chain gas stations mostly give a discount of 6 to 10 cents a gallon for cash. Payment is at the pump.

[Mark Blatter]

Same. My only cash transaction is to my barber. He only accepts cash and checks. When he retires (he's 80) I will be cash free.

That is funny in a way. I never go anywhere without $50 - $100 in cash. Just for use at the places that don't take credit cards. We have a few stores that take cash and debit and old fuddy that I am, I refuse to own a debit card. Plus that are just times that cash is easier to use, though those are dwindling.

[Bill Howatt]

That is funny in a way. I never go anywhere without $50 - $100 in cash. Just for use at the places that don't take credit cards. We have a few stores that take cash and debit and old fuddy that I am, I refuse to own a debit card. Plus that are just times that cash is easier to use, though those are dwindling.

I'm 79 and find debit and credit cards with the tap function are much easier to use than cash these days.

[Stan Calow]

Seems like a quarter of the time I try to use cards or Apple Pay, there is a "problem" with the systems, and I end up paying cash. I prefer cash, but cant argue with the convenience of Apple Pay.

Write a check, and any half-smart cashier has all the info they need to order new paper checks with your name and account number. They just run it through a reader that treats it like a debit transaction anyway.

My local McD's has a AI robot that takes the drive through orders. You have to speak quickly and clearly and end the order with a "that is all" or "that is it" to make sure it knows when you are done.

When you look at the actual demographics, what used to be a pyramid (people in each population group) now looks like a diamond. Not enough births to replace the older boomer workers retiring. Not laziness driving this shortage. Local Ford plant will take anyone with a heartbeat.

Someone come up with a reference for this alleged law about requiring anyone to take cash

[Sam Force]

Our favorite restaurant charges 4% more for using credit or debit card. I always have enough cash to save the 4%. It's not a lot of money saved but when you think about it, 4% is a significant savings if you could always save 4% over the course of a year

[Mel Fulks]

Someone came up with a reference for this alleged law about requiring anyone to take cash
Not alleged. It was common practice per US gov. The point of the gov. was you had to accept paper money so that the important people who
made “the war possible” would get their promised pay . Without “legal tender” USA money would have just been refused , and silver ,gold , and platinum ,would have fallen into the hands of “the little people”. Most people put away all the REAL money they could. Families
are still finding some of it. Before people went to expensive schools to become indoctrinated , they believed that crisp new USA
fiat money was NOT as good as , silver , gold , and platinum. Many countries have “ legal tender “ laws . That translates to “use it or
we will send you to prison”. When gov put “ this note is Legal Tender For all Debts Public and Private “ The meaning was accept fake
money or go to prison. Now some people think “that makes good sense “. That’s what happens without serious lampoon comedy to
teach people only way to understand how money works .

[Mel Fulks]

Isn’t “This note is legal tender for all debts Public and Private” still on the paper money ?

[Jim Koepke]

… Someone come up with a reference for this alleged law about requiring anyone to take cash

Couldn't find that, it doesn't exist. Found this instead:


Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.

That is from the Federal Reserve at > https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

Possible that the ,“this note is legal tender for all debts public and private “, has been removed . I really don’t know when I last bought
something with anything except a credit card. So credit cards are now making all happy ! Even the IRS . There was a time when
people were careful to spend the Federal Reserve Notes….and save the silver certificates.

[Dave Zellers]

Paper money will disappear and soon you won't have to file your taxes.

What you owe will simply disappear from your account.

[Stan Calow]

every bill in my wallet still has the statement saying its Legal Tender. But printing a statement on the paper is not the same as an enforceable law.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm 79 and find debit and credit cards with the tap function are much easier to use than cash these days.

The problem is a lot of big chains do not have card readers that can do the tap thing. Walmart is the largest retailer in the USA and they are chip/swipe only. Same with Menards and Home Depot. Fleet Farm locally just put in new card readers and no tap capability.

[Jim Becker]

Not alleged. .
This was already discussed earlier in the thread...the Federal Reserve says (in writing) there is no Federal law that requires cash be accepted for transactions. Someone mentioned that some states do have legislation that requires acceptance of cash.

[Bill Howatt]

The problem is a lot of big chains do not have card readers that can do the tap thing. Walmart is the largest retailer in the USA and they are chip/swipe only. Same with Menards and Home Depot. Fleet Farm locally just put in new card readers and no tap capability.

After I hit the Post button, I remembered that I was talking to a primarily US audience. In Canada, there are very, very few places you can't tap with your card. I think Walmart was a hold-out for longer than others.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

It is a simple extension of the self checkout at grocery stores and walmart. Once the food production goes robotic, there will be no employees. I see a union posting happy dance pictures over an Amazon warehouse unionizing and at the same time, our local Amazon warehouse went automatic, the robots don't get sick, don't misread labels or orders, don't call off mondays and fridays, their kids don't get chicken pox and the robots will gladly forego over time. Drunks will soon be able to sleep while the car takes them home from the bars. How hard can it be for a robot to flip a burger onto a bun. CNC machines now turn out any masterpiece you want, even a house. It might be a good idea to go to a shorter work week so more people can work part time

[Bill Howatt]

I'm always amazed when I see robots assembling things and I often wonder how many people who used to work doing those jobs said, "there is no way a machine could do this complicated job". AI is going to make huge differences in the number of jobs impacted, you know, the ones today's people are saying, "there is no way a machine....".

[Patty Hann]

The problem is a lot of big chains do not have card readers that can do the tap thing. Walmart is the largest retailer in the USA and they are chip/swipe only. Same with Menards and Home Depot. Fleet Farm locally just put in new card readers and no tap capability.

My Walmart is not chip/swipe only, and I use the self-checkout.
(But I do use CC almost exclusively for any kind of shopping....those "Cash back points" add up :D)
I shop at a half dozen different Walmarts, depending on where I am at the time; none are exclusively debit/credit.
I don't think any Walmart in AZ is chip/swipe only.

[Doug Garson]

After I hit the Post button, I remembered that I was talking to a primarily US audience. In Canada, there are very, very few places you can't tap with your card. I think Walmart was a hold-out for longer than others.
Yes, I just returned from 3 weeks in Hawaii. First time in memory that I signed a credit card bill. So used to waiters bringing the machine to the table to tap or insert and key in pin. Maui Brewing was one of the few places using 21st century technology for point of sale. They have a system where you scan a QR code on the table to view the menu, place your order and pay all from your phone. Most restaurants brought a paper bill, took your credit card away and brought back the credit card and bill for signature and to add tip. Don't think I used my pin for the whole trip. I don't think a signature provides any security, the person accepting the payment has no training in how to recognize a fake, the signature you need to match is on the card.

[Brian Elfert]

My Walmart is not chip/swipe only, and I use the self-checkout.
(But I do use CC almost exclusively for any kind of shopping....those "Cash back points" add up :D)
I shop at a half dozen different Walmarts, depending on where I am at the time; none are exclusively debit/credit.
I don't think any Walmart in AZ is chip/swipe only.

I think you're getting things confused here. I didn't mention cash at all, nor did I say that Walmart doesn't take cash. I get sick of people online stating I said something I didn't say.

I was replying to a quote of someone wondering why people don't just use the tap function on card readers. I replied that many chains only have swipe/chip. I figured I didn't need to use the words card readers because I was quoting someone talking about card readers.

[Brian Elfert]

Yes, I just returned from 3 weeks in Hawaii. First time in memory that I signed a credit card bill. So used to waiters bringing the machine to the table to tap or insert and key in pin. Maui Brewing was one of the few places using 21st century technology for point of sale. They have a system where you scan a QR code on the table to view the menu, place your order and pay all from your phone. Most restaurants brought a paper bill, took your credit card away and brought back the credit card and bill for signature and to add tip. Don't think I used my pin for the whole trip. I don't think a signature provides any security, the person accepting the payment has no training in how to recognize a fake, the signature you need to match is on the card.

QR code menus got very popular in the USA after COVID so people didn't have to touch "dirty" menus. There have been a lot of complaints about QR code menus so restaurants have brought back paper menus. Some people said it ruined the dining experience by having to take out their phone to peruse the menu. There is still a segment of USA residents who don't have a smartphone so they can't use a QR code menu. I think more restaurants would stick with QR code menus if customers didn't want paper menus.

Credit card technology in the USA is very backwards compared to many other parts of the world. Europe has had chip and pin for many years. I bet European card readers don't even have magnetic stripe readers anymore. The credit card issuers claimed a certain percentage of credit card users would stop using cards if they had to enter a PIN. The card issuers don't want anything stopping consumers from paying with cards. Restaurants are mostly too cheap to spend $250 to $500 each for wireless card readers that could be brought to the tables. Most restaurants hate to spend on technology and many restaurant POS systems still only have swipe readers for credit cards.

I have no idea why signatures are even a thing for credit card transactions anywhere. Visa and Mastercard have not required signatures for quite a few years now. I have had to sign once or twice in the past two weeks. The Apple credit card has no signature box and also does not have the card number printed on the card.

[Alex Zeller]

If using my debit card I will not enter a pin. It's a direct access to your bank account. Skipping the pin means VISA gets a cut but they give you protections. A couple of years ago a casher at a local gas station chain was paid to allow scammers access to the card readers on the pumps. The scammers got a bunch of money from people's bank accounts and disappeared before the police could find them. The casher got jail time. So I'm sure lots of others don't use a pin either. Because of this I don't know if a pin would be accepted with credit card use.

[Doug Garson]

If using my debit card I will not enter a pin. It's a direct access to your bank account. Skipping the pin means VISA gets a cut but they give you protections. A couple of years ago a casher at a local gas station chain was paid to allow scammers access to the card readers on the pumps. The scammers got a bunch of money from people's bank accounts and disappeared before the police could find them. The casher got jail time. So I'm sure lots of others don't use a pin either. Because of this I don't know if a pin would be accepted with credit card use.
So if you don't enter a pin, how does the system know you didn't just find the card? The pin is there to prevent someone who finds a card from using it. In the fraud case you described, did the card holders end up getting reimbursed for the money stolen from them? Don't have a debit card, don't see the need for one. With my credit card in Canada, other than small tap transactions, no pin, no transaction.

[Brian Elfert]

So if you don't enter a pin, how does the system know you didn't just find the card? The pin is there to prevent someone who finds a card from using it. In the fraud case you described, did the card holders end up getting reimbursed for the money stolen from them? Don't have a debit card, don't see the need for one. With my credit card in Canada, other than small tap transactions, no pin, no transaction.

The credit card issuers in the USA believe that they will lose more money from requiring PINs than from fraud. Yes, I could find a credit card on the ground and use it to make purchases.

[Stan Calow]

I think that the argument that customers wont like PINs for CC purchase is bogus. We manage to use PINs with debit cards just fine. What choice would we have if they did so?

My debit card was hacked, and the thieves used it to make purchases on credit (without PIN). The fraud people said my history of not using it as a CC was evidence that it was not me.

I hate QR code menus. I like to see the whole menu at once, not endlessly scrolling down through stuff hoping something catches my eye. The health concern is minimal compared to everything else you touch while there.

In Europe, we were told its EU law that restaurants and merchants can not take your card out of your sight. So government involvement, not just smart people. Yeah, I sometimes ask at restaurants here if they will be getting that technology soon. Always told no. I still use cash in restaurants.

[Bill Howatt]

There was CC fraud from servers taking cards to the back where the machine was located before wireless portable units. They would record all the data on the card from either a skimmer or just plain old write it down. I had seen some customers follow the server to the back to do the payment. The CC companies often warned not to let the card out of your sight.
In Canada, a pinless tap payment is restricted to roughly $150US per transaction with a daily limit. I get an email every time my debit card is used so I would know very quickly if it was not me doing the purchase. Credit cards are probably a safer way of doing purchases if you are concerned. Credit card issuers, typically banks, are fairly accommodating in cases of fraud (but certainly not perfect) because they would dread the day people stopped using them. Note that Visa and MC are just payment handlers, they do not have any risk associated with purchases and payments - the card issuer has this problem.

[Jim Becker]

It's very true that many readers out there in major box stores do not currently support tap for cards and devices and both the orange and blue 'borg are included in that. I don't know about Walmart since I don't shop with them, but Tar-zhey does support tap. So does Costco, PetSmart, etc. I think that it will be a bit of time before tap becomes close to universally available simply because of equipment/IT replacement cycles. The whole terminals have to be physically replaced to move up to supporting tap which is a capital expense. The software piece is easy; it's about the hardware cycle. But I will say that I very much prefer tap because I use my Apple Watch for touchless transactions as much as possible and that's for multiple cards based on how we divide our household budget.


As to reticence with using PINS...there are a lot of things that folks in the US are loath to embrace that became standard practice in a big chunk of the overall global economy. It is what it is.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I live near a giant cake manufacturing plant. They produce thousands of cakes an hour and have computers decorate the cakes, spray pictures, letters, decorations on the cakes. One November 10 years ago, a programmer hit the wrong codes for the computer and over 1,000 cakes were decorated for back to school instead of Christmas before the mistake was reported to the office and the line stopped. All those cakes had to be sold off for pennies on the dollar to outlet stores and some donated to shelters. They now have a computer program that is hooked directly to orders coming in. The cakes are, mixed, baked and decorated automatically according to current incoming orders in quantities as low as 36 at a time.. An order can be made and shipped in less than 4 hours. They no longer have to project how many cakes they will need weeks in advance and deal with over runs. The number of employees has dropped significantly. A few QC inspectors, and folks who clean the production machines. Even loading the trucks is mostly robotic. As my neighbor told me, they would not have to shut down for a pandemic, they have it set up so employees don't even have to personally contact each other. All by radio and phone.

[Derek Meyer]

Our local Home Depot (Lewistion, ID) uses the Lane 7000 credit card machines, which do support tap to pay. I was there last weekend and used it that way with my credit card. Maybe there are in process of rolling it out to all stores, or maybe just select locations. I believe Lewiston has had the Lane 7000 terminals for a couple of years now. They are the same terminals that our store uses. We've had them for just under 2 years now. They were a sizeable investment for us ($1000 per terminal x 40 terminals over two stores = $40,000), but customers really like the convienence of tap to pay.

[Jim Koepke]

As to reticence with using PINS...there are a lot of things that folks in the US are loath to embrace that became standard practice in a big chunk of the overall global economy. It is what it is.

Often when purchasing fuel or other items in credit mode the machine will ask for my ZIP code. This may be standard for gas stations since that is usually the first thing someone will try to purchase to see if the card will work for them.

It is amazing how many cashiers or counter attendants do not even look at the back of a credit card to check signatures.


our local Amazon warehouse went automatic, the robots don't get sick, don't misread labels or orders

Never under estimate the validity of Murphy's Law, "what can go wrong will go wrong."

An insect landing across a scanner could cause misreads or put a robot out of service.

How often have you watched an item scanned at a store having to be scanned a second time? There used to be a story about a guy who made a device that would make the same beep sound as store checkout scanners. When an item went by without the beep, he would beep his and get a few items free.

As far as robots go, it will be a while before robots will be fixing robots that malfunction.

One rule to staying ahead is to embrace and/or create new technologies. If you want to work on automobiles you are not going to have much of a customer base specializing in carburetors and clutch repair.


I like to see the whole menu at once, not endlessly scrolling down through stuff hoping something catches my eye.

Most of the restaurants I frequent have a multipage menu that can not be seen all at once. Though a QR code wouldn't work for me since I'm still a landline only person.

jtk

[Doug Garson]

The US gas stations requiring zip codes is a real pita for us Canucks, don't know why they don't just ask for a pin. A hack that sometimes works, told to me by a gas station employee, is to just input the 3 numbers from your postal code so 1A2 B3C would become 123. Sometimes works but some machines require or at least ask for a 5 digit zip code.
A guy I used to work years ago, with never signed his credit cards but instead wrote "ask for photo ID". He said that most places he used the card never asked for ID so it's safe to say they never did a signature match.
I'm on the fence when it comes to QR code menus. I always seem to struggle to get the QR reader to work. Once it does I like it. When we were at Maui Brewing it was really convenient to order a second round and have it delivered to the table in minutes or pay without having to flag down a waiter. I assume they have a work around for someone without a smart phone, perhaps they bring you a tablet.

[Bill Howatt]

I heard you pad the Cdn postal code numbers with zeros at the beginning to get the required number of digits.

[Alex Zeller]

So if you don't enter a pin, how does the system know you didn't just find the card? The pin is there to prevent someone who finds a card from using it. In the fraud case you described, did the card holders end up getting reimbursed for the money stolen from them? Don't have a debit card, don't see the need for one. With my credit card in Canada, other than small tap transactions, no pin, no transaction.

Nothing. It's up to the seller to ask for ID or a signature. Often they don't.

I was just reading about someone who got caught a few years ago and spend a couple years in jail. He would go to gas stations, open the door and replace the card reader inside with a modified one. It would still read and process the sale of gas but it would also save the card and pin numbers. he would come back a couple days later and download the information wirelessly. He said he moved on to SNAP cards as they are still using 1970s technology. He had a change of heart after a hurricane and a lady was in front of him at a store trying buy food who just found out her account had 40 cents in it. She started crying because she couldn't afford a hotel room and now had no food.

Visa offers protections in exchange for making money off of the transaction. When you use a debit card as a debit card the money comes out of your bank account. When you use it as a credit card the bank, not you is on the hook if you dispute the charges. It's much easier to fight a charge when it's not your money missing from your bank account.

Last summer a auto parts store charged $600 to my debit card. My bank texted me and when I read the text I let them know it wasn't me. For 3 months is showed up as "pending" but the money never was taken out of my account. That day the bank issued me a debit card with new numbers. It was a little bit of a pain. After 3 months the charge was removed. I wouldn't be impacted by not having the $600 in my account if it was a debit card purchase but other people would be.

As for a pin number with a credit card I think most cards will allow you to add one. But we in the US are too lazy. We would rather just tap our card or phone than swipe or insert it. Having to also enter a pin, that's just too hard. In fact it was too hard to do on our smart phones so now they either need just a finger print or to see our face.

[Jim Becker]

Alex, while you can add a PIN to a Credit Card in the US, as far as I know, that's only for using it in an ATM for cash advances if you want to do that kind of thing. I do not believe PIN functionality has been enabled in the US as it has in many other parts of the global economy. With Debit Cards, PINs are normal, however, when running the transaction as a Debit transaction.

[Stan Calow]

Alex, while you can add a PIN to a Credit Card in the US, as far as I know, that's only for using it in an ATM for cash advances if you want to do that kind of thing. I do not believe PIN functionality has been enabled in the US as it has in many other parts of the global economy. With Debit Cards, PINs are normal, however, when running the transaction as a Debit transaction.

And this is a real problem for US travelers abroad. Many countries require CCs to purchase things like train tickets, fuel, road tolls etc., and it can be hit or miss if your CC does not use PINs. Very annoying.

[Brian Elfert]

I think there are a number of posters that don't realize that all of the credit card companies stopped requiring signatures for credit cards back in 2018. Businesses can still require a signature if they want, but I haven't run into any major business doing that in quite a few years. Some small businesses still require a signature, but all it really does is waste a few seconds of the customer's time/

I thought credit card issuers used to tell merchants not accept cards that see ID and that it might have been a violation of the merchant agreement to even ask for ID? Didn't people used to get upset if a cashier asked for ID to take a credit card?

[Brian Elfert]

I think that the argument that customers wont like PINs for CC purchase is bogus. We manage to use PINs with debit cards just fine. What choice would we have if they did so?


Credit card issuers worry that people will switch back to cash or other payments if things are added that make using a credit card slower and less convenient. Personally, PINs would not push me back to cash. Credit cards would need to have major negative changes for me to stop using them.

[Curt Harms]

I think there are a number of posters that don't realize that all of the credit card companies stopped requiring signatures for credit cards back in 2018. Businesses can still require a signature if they want, but I haven't run into any major business doing that in quite a few years. Some small businesses still require a signature, but all it really does is waste a few seconds of the customer's time/

I thought credit card issuers used to tell merchants not accept cards that see ID and that it might have been a violation of the merchant agreement to even ask for ID? Didn't people used to get upset if a cashier asked for ID to take a credit card?

I have "ask for ID" on my credit cards and the only time I've run into an issue was at a U.S. Post Office some years ago. Other than that one time no issue. I have had people ask to see my I.D. but it's rare.

[Mike Henderson]

And this is a real problem for US travelers abroad. Many countries require CCs to purchase things like train tickets, fuel, road tolls etc., and it can be hit or miss if your CC does not use PINs. Very annoying.

I rean into that problem one time when traveling in Europe. I contacted the credit card company who told me to enter any four digits - it doesn't matter to them, they'll accept it.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Many years ago one of our credit card companies sent Candy a credit card with the o and the e in our last name transposed.

After a couple of years some sharp eyed cashier, who actually asked for her ID as directed on the back of her card, caught it and wouldn't allow her to complete the transaction with that card.

After about six or seven attempts to get this corrected and receiving replacement cards with the same error, it came down to having to close the account and starting over.

I was out buying a new computer and had it all written up and used the charge card from the same company. While sitting outside waiting for my computer to be finished, Candy called and told me the situation. Since my purchase had been completed, and the card company representative saw the charge, I said, "tell them to go ahead."

Shortly after that the sales person came out and told me the memory upgrade had been written up incorrectly and they needed to run it through again.

It took a few minutes of explaining to the sales person why they had to work with the invoice they had. The price was the same. They finally worked it out and my new computer came home with me the same day.

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

I have "ask for ID" on my credit cards and the only time I've run into an issue was at a U.S. Post Office some years ago. Other than that one time no issue. I have had people ask to see my I.D. but it's rare.

How many cashiers do you think would know that merchant agreements often didn't allow asking for an ID to take a credit card? It is pretty stupid that credit issuers in the USA are so worried about losing business that they won't allow common sense security measures.

[Bill Carey]

I think you're right, Alex. An unfortunate byproduct of that is kids that don't have a clue how the world outside their phones actually work and how to function within it. A lot of young people's first work experience is fast food and convenience stores.

And those kids are changing the way it all works. If I live another 50 years I'm certain I won't know how to function in their world.

[Bill Howatt]

If you want a laugh, hand most young people a check book and ask them to write you a check for some amount.

[Jim Becker]

If you want a laugh, hand most young people a check book and ask them to write you a check for some amount.
My younger daughter actually didn't have a check book until recently when she got a new job and the HR folks demanded a cancelled check to set up her direct deposit. She used debit card or online payments only and never actually had to write a check. (she does know how to, however) She ordered the checks anyway (they are free from our bank) but got a direct deposit form from the bank. Actually two of them because the worker at the bank put Professor Dr. SWMBO's account number on the original one and darling daughter's first pay got deposited into her mother's account. Sheesh. But that's a whole different issue.

I rarely have used checks in the past decade or so, but the shop construction project did require a number of them to pay the drivers for stone deliveries and other folks contracted to do work I don't do. The numbers for the latter were bigger than folks were willing to accept a credit card transaction for.

[Doug Garson]

If you want a laugh, hand most young people a check book and ask them to write you a check for some amount.
This, I assume, from the generation that never learned how to program a VCR. :cool:

[Patty Hann]

This, I assume, from the generation that never learned how to program a VCR. :cool:

If you know what a VCR is then you ain't so young yourself ;)

[Mike Null]

Since the thread is broadly about money, i guess this comment will be permissible. I remember when we used to get paid weekly with cash in a pay envelope. I'm 86 and that was a while ago.

[Bill Howatt]

My younger daughter actually didn't have a check book until recently when she got a new job and the HR folks demanded a cancelled check to set up her direct deposit. She used debit card or online payments only and never actually had to write a check...

I rarely have used checks in the past decade or so, but the shop construction project did require a number of them to pay the drivers for stone deliveries and other folks contracted to do work I don't do. The numbers for the latter were bigger than folks were willing to accept a credit card transaction for.

My (Canadian) bank's on-line banking site and others allow you to download the image of a check with your account digits at the bottom and a big "VOID" across the middle. You can print it out if you need to.
My sister used to work in a major bank's check-clearing department years ago. She said it was a huge area with lots of people just handling big stacks of paper checks. When she retired she said the number of people was far fewer and I imagine today it probably is very few.
My other sister was getting some work done because of a poor internet cable upgrade that damaged her walls. She tried to get various contractors to take payment for the repair by credit card and they all refused. Strange, I thought but a little later in a TV news show they had an item about businesses being out a lot of money because somebody would buy an item or labor and then complain to the CC company that it was unsatisfactory and wanted the charge removed. This then filtered back to the business.

[Bill Dufour]

Decades ago I saw an interview with a old Hollywood actress. She was working in the very beginnings in California. Around ww1 a east coast company set up shop and paid on Friday in paper money. ALL employees rushed to the bank to make sure the stuff was real. California did not use paper money at that time. Just gold silver and smaller coins.
Bill D

[Brian Elfert]

My (Canadian) bank's on-line banking site and others allow you to download the image of a check with your account digits at the bottom and a big "VOID" across the middle. You can print it out if you need to.
My sister used to work in a major bank's check-clearing department years ago. She said it was a huge area with lots of people just handling big stacks of paper checks. When she retired she said the number of people was far fewer and I imagine today it probably is very few.


The days of people in rooms just processing checks all day long has been pretty much gone for at least a dozen years. These days banks just scan in checks optically and using OCR they read the account numbers and electronically debit the account at the other bank. Businesses who receive a lot of checks can scan them themselves and send the file to their bank.

[Doug Garson]

Businesses who receive a lot of checks can scan them themselves and send the file to their bank.
Not limited to businesses, TD bank, and probably most Canadian banks, has an app that allows you to use your phone's camera to deposit checks directly to your account. Not new, I think it is at least 5 years old.

[Bill Howatt]

US banks that have an app can do it too.

[Brian Elfert]

I certainly know about mobile deposits. Businesses that accept a lot of checks it isn't practical to use a mobile device to deposit checks. I am the treasurer of a Boy Scout troop and they have a business account at a bank. The bank won't let me do mobile deposit with the business account because they want our group to pay for one of their other deposit services.

My original post was about how banks deal with checks physically deposited at the bank.

[Jim Becker]

The days of people in rooms just processing checks all day long has been pretty much gone for at least a dozen years. These days banks just scan in checks optically and using OCR they read the account numbers and electronically debit the account at the other bank. Businesses who receive a lot of checks can scan them themselves and send the file to their bank.
Unless it's an unusually large check that's been received, I don't even take checks to the bank to deposit...I do it with the bank's app on my phone. It takes about a minute and doesn't require me to use gasoline and take what is essentially a nearly half-hour trip to make the deposit. (despite the bank being three miles max) That's nice since I don't use cash other than in an "emergency" so I'm not showing up at the ATM very frequently, either. Processing paper checks even at the teller window is also electronic...the teller scans them and the deposit is complete, other than the funds being confirmed in the background.

And yes, I use TDBank since that was just mentioned.

[Curt Harms]

If you want a laugh, hand most young people a check book and ask them to write you a check for some amount.

If you really want a laugh, hand a Super Market checker a check made out for more than the cost of the order to get some cash back. SWMBO used to do that. Everybody in back of her had to wait while the youngster found someone who knew how to process that. She eventually learned to get in lines with checkers that have had a number of birthdays.

[Jim Koepke]

These days banks just scan in checks optically and using OCR they read the account numbers and electronically debit the account at the other bank.

Banks now use MICR (Magnetic Ink Character Reader) on checks.


“Magnetic Ink Character Recognition” (MICR) is a technology that uses a 9-digit code printed at the bottom of a cheque to quickly and accurately identify and process it.

This is the first step in catching a counterfeit check. Most criminals do not have the ability to print magnetic ink codes on the bottom of checks.

jtk

[Greg Funk]

Unless it's an unusually large check that's been received, I don't even take checks to the bank to deposit...I do it with the bank's app on my phone.You must be used to bigger cheques than me :) We can deposit up to $500k with mobile banking.

[Jim Becker]

You must be used to bigger cheques than me :) We can deposit up to $500k with mobile banking.
I "can" deposit large checks using the mobile app. I just choose not to...and they are very rare, too. I'm sorry I was not clear about that.

[Bill Dufour]

Not sure if I posted this before or not but in going over our taxes the IRS warns they will not take a check for over 100 million dollars. I guess they want cash for that large a sum.
Bill D

[Jim Koepke]

Not sure if I posted this before or not but in going over our taxes the IRS warns they will not take a check for over 100 million dollars. I guess they want cash for that large a sum.
Bill D

Or a transfer between banks, like the taxpayers bank wires transfers it to the nearest Federal Reserve Bank.

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

Not sure if I posted this before or not but in going over our taxes the IRS warns they will not take a check for over 100 million dollars. I guess they want cash for that large a sum.
Bill D

They absolutely, positively do not want cash, especially in that amount.

Mike

[Mel Fulks]

Doesn’t matter what they want. By law all USA paper money is “ legal tender “ for all debts public and private” . They don’t just
hire one guard with one bullet in his weapon .

[Mel Fulks]

Edwin, Gov. might be too busy to read their old nutty stuff cuz they would rather make up NEW nutty laws. It’s printed on the money !
So Mel is on the money ! Perhaps Gov. needs to hire a “new rules committee”. There are lots of nutty laws on the books that are not
enforced , quite possible they just enforce them when they need a crime for a chosen criminal. That would mean they just enforce when
“It’s really necessary”….and the GOOD people don’t have to worry…..as long as they “keep their nose clean”. That’s legal talk.

[Bill Dufour]

Al Capone went to Alcatraz for tax evasion and Ponzi went for using the mail.
Bill D

[Doug Garson]

Not sure if I posted this before or not but in going over our taxes the IRS warns they will not take a check for over 100 million dollars. I guess they want cash for that large a sum.
Bill D
If your tax bill is 100 million dollars, you can afford a tax lawyer who will find a loophole that has you paying no tax. :cool:

[Bill Dufour]

Banks now use MICR (Magnetic Ink Character Reader) on checks.
Magnetic ink for checks was invented by the California Ink Company in Berkeley around 1950. Not exactly new high tech. I remember they took down the small hill across the street from us to build dikes around the ink tanks at the factory. This was contain any spills in case of a quake. Amazing forethought for the 1960's.
Bill D

[Jim Koepke]

Edwin, Gov. might be too busy to read their old nutty stuff cuz they would rather make up NEW nutty laws. It’s printed on the money !
So Mel is on the money ! Perhaps Gov. needs to hire a “new rules committee”. There are lots of nutty laws on the books that are not
enforced , quite possible they just enforce them when they need a crime for a chosen criminal. That would mean they just enforce when
“It’s really necessary”….and the GOOD people don’t have to worry…..as long as they “keep their nose clean”. That’s legal talk.

So technically your statement could be used to put a bank robber behind bars if they robbed a bank and refused to take Treasury Notes as legal tender? :D :eek:

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

Edwin, Gov. might be too busy to read their old nutty stuff cuz they would rather make up NEW nutty laws. It’s printed on the money !
So Mel is on the money ! Perhaps Gov. needs to hire a “new rules committee”. There are lots of nutty laws on the books that are not
enforced , quite possible they just enforce them when they need a crime for a chosen criminal. That would mean they just enforce when
“It’s really necessary”….and the GOOD people don’t have to worry…..as long as they “keep their nose clean”. That’s legal talk.

Have you actually done any research on this? You'll find plenty of websites stating private businesses don't have to accept cash in most cases. Even the Federal Reserve states that private businesses can refuse to accept case in most cases. A bill was introduced in the 2021-2022 Congress that would require businesses to accept cash, but it didn't get passed into law.

[Jim Becker]

Have you actually done any research on this? You'll find plenty of websites stating private businesses don't have to accept cash in most cases. Even the Federal Reserve states that private businesses can refuse to accept case in most cases. A bill was introduced in the 2021-2022 Congress that would require businesses to accept cash, but it didn't get passed into law.
Discussed earlier in the thread when Mel brought it up...including a link to the Federal Reserve on the subject. Not required to accept cash by law except in some states via state law.

[Mel Fulks]

I make it up as needed and check it against graffiti in the finest universities.
With no silver or gold ,AKA as “real money” , it’s not important any more. Even “paper or plastic” in grocery stores is no longer
a choice. Legal Tender simply means , accept fiat money ,or go to prison. Now that the prisons are full…even THAT choice
is gone. People used to all understand “bad money drives out good money”. But now we do have web-site indoctrination ! And it’s
free !

[Dwayne Watt]

Your statement inferring only silver or gold are "real money" intrigued me. These metals have no more intrinsic value than paper money (flat money as it called). It is the relative rarity upon which people have established some degree of value that was worth trading for other things of perceived value. Platinum has more perceived value than either gold or silver yet is never quoted as being "real money". Legal tender (paper money) is simply something one receives in exchange for providing something perceived as valuable by another party. In today's real world, the legal tender is a compilation of ones and zeroes that are accumulated and exchanged. Even the paper check portion of this thread conversation is nothing more than a digital transfer. The large box stores (Wal-Mart in particular) of this world scan a check to get the account info and amount then simply give the paper back to you. Functionally, this is no different than using a debit card other than it takes a few seconds longer in the check out line. Transactionally, the process is different behind the scenes or so I believe.

I make it up as needed and check it against graffiti in the finest universities.
With no silver or gold ,AKA as “real money” , it’s not important any more. Even “paper or plastic” in grocery stores is no longer
a choice. Legal Tender simply means , accept fiat money ,or go to prison. Now that the prisons are full…even THAT choice
is gone. People used to all understand “bad money drives out good money”. But now we do have web-site indoctrination ! And it’s
free !