Veritas skew rabbet plane setup

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Hi all,

I joined the creek approximately 2 years ago, and my tool collection has grown pretty dramatically. The only plane i have never been able to set up really well is the Veritas skew rabbet plane. So far it has been the bane of my existence.
Ive seen a few videos on troubleshooting the plane, and read the manual but i still haven't been able to get it fine tuned. Anyone here willing to post a dummies orientated tutorial on proper set up of tool?

Thanks,
The dummy

[Rob Luter]

This is a pretty good presentation


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sF2dTFJ2k8&t=1s&ab_channel=LeeValleyTools

[Jim Koepke]

The only plane i have never been able to set up really well is the Veritas skew rabbet plane. So far it has been the bane of my existence.

It might help to describe what kinds of troubles you have encountered.

One common denominator I've found with starting out with any plane is to begin with light shavings. This can reveal many things. It can tell if the blade is sharp. It can indicate if the blade isn't properly aligned. It can also revel if the sole of a plane is not flat in various ways, though I wouldn't expect that with a plane purchased new but errors can happen.

A skew plane can work across grain, but it still works best when going with the grain.

jtk

[Christopher Charles]

"I joined the creek approximately 2 years ago, and my tool collection has grown pretty dramatically." LOL-one often follows the other!

I have this plane and it is by far the most fiddly. A couple tricks, which you've likely encountered already:
-take off the front knob
-pre-score the rabbet by drawing the plane backwards first before taking the first shavings
-start light
-get the lateral setting just right (though tricky and I honestly don't remember the trick--extend the blade a paper's width out from the skate?).

Once it is dialed in, it is a delight but still requires practice to create a square rabbet.

Best,
Chris

[Warren Mickley]

The skew rabbet (really a moving fillister) has two modes: with the grain and across the grain.

In the mode with the grain, the nicker is retracted so it does not interfere and the blade protrudes from the side a bit so there is clearance. If you put a straightedge across the side at the mouth it should rock slightly on the protruding iron.

When used across the grain, the nicker has to protrude both down below the sole of the plane and a little out the side so the body of the plane does not rub the side of the rabbet you are making. The cutting iron, on the other hand has to be away from the very edge so it doesn't interfere with the wall the nicker is creating. In fact the cutter can be quite a bit inboard from the nicker and still work fine. The cutting iron also needs to be a little bit less deep than the nicker so it doesn't try to remove material that hasn't already been severed at the edge.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

OK so I think I can summarise my problems as an issue of seating the blade properly. I know the sharp corner needs to protrude slightly. but every time I make it stick out enough it no longer seems to be seated evenly on the sole (will take a lopsided shaving), when I get the blade protruding equally from the sole it doesn't protrude right any more relative to the nicker. I tried using the set screws and a tiny turn seems to really change the settings. also, if I managed to get the setting reasonably dialed in, and take out the blade, the set screws never seem to work to "save" the settings. I can't believe a tool like this should take more than 20 minutes to set up (excluding sharpening!) I am therefore pretty sure I am going about this the wrong way.

in case anyone is wondering, the blade geometry is correct and the blade is sharp. it is only an issue of adjusting the blade within the plane

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

seen it a couple of dozen times, I also seen the videos posted by the renaissance woodworker

[Jim Koepke]

-get the lateral setting just right (though tricky and I honestly don't remember the trick--extend the blade a paper's width out from the skate?).

One way of doing this that works for me is to set the plane on its side on the bench or a piece of flat hardwood with the blade not fully tightened. Make sure the side is flat on the surface. Then while holding the plane against the flat surface press on the blade toward the surface, then tighten the lever cap iron.

People who haven't done this will think it is nuts, but it works. It is easy to confirm this. Set a spokeshave like the Stanley #51 on a flat surface with the cap iron loose. Use a finger to press the blade against the same surface the spokeshave's sole is resting on and tighten the lever cap. The spokeshave will take a hefty shaving set this way.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

I tried using the set screws and a tiny turn seems to really change the settings.

I do not know the threading on the set screws, but for our discussion let us use 32 per inch. One full turn would move the blade ~0.031" (0.79mm). Turning it 6º (this is equal to the minute hand on a clock moving one unit, yes I know of the confusion of degrees and minutes being different on a clock or when using parts of a degree).

That would make a change of ~0.005"(0.0127mm).

If the blade doesn't protrude enough from the side, the plane will tend to make each pass slightly narrower than the last. If it is protruding too much it will tend to make a rough side to the rabbet (rebate).

Depending on how tiny of a turn you made, that is why it can make a big difference.

Also the screws should be tight enough to keep the blade from sliding side to side but not tight enough to prevent it from being removed or inserted.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

My suggestion would be to back off the screws and get the blade set first. Then set the screws to the blade.

jtk

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

the issue isn't the depth the screw moves in. its that the plane balances the blade between 2 grub screws. if I turn the top one, the movement at the tip of the blade is greatly magnified by the distance - the screw acts as a fulcrum point on which the side of the blade pivots. I hope I am explaining it well?

[Jim Koepke]

the issue isn't the depth the screw moves in. its that the plane balances the blade between 2 grub screws. if I turn the top one, the movement at the tip of the blade is greatly magnified by the distance - the screw acts as a fulcrum point on which the side of the blade pivots. I hope I am explaining it well?

Yes, that is why in my last post my suggestion was to set the blade first, then set the screws to the blade.

Setting the blade was described in one of my earlier posts.

Set the plane on its side with the depth stop and any other obstacles out of the way. While holding the side of the plane flat against the surface, press the blade to the surface, then tighten the lever cap.

Try the plane with this setting and if it works, softly set the screws to touch the edge of the blade.

jtk

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

thanks, I will give it a try!

[Rob Luter]

the issue isn't the depth the screw moves in. its that the plane balances the blade between 2 grub screws. if I turn the top one, the movement at the tip of the blade is greatly magnified by the distance - the screw acts as a fulcrum point on which the side of the blade pivots. I hope I am explaining it well?

I had a similar issue with mine. It was a bit fussy to get set the first time but once I got it dialed in it was fine.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Most of my planes are LNs, but I do have 3 Veritas planes - Rabbet, Small Plow and Shooting. I had difficulty adjusting the blade on all of them due to those darn allen retaining screws until I discovered what Jim recommends. Getting the blade properly adjusted and tightened first and then easing the side screws until barely touching the blade worked for me. I actually considered selling all 3 planes until figuring that out.

[Warren Mickley]

OK so I think I can summarise my problems as an issue of seating the blade properly. I know the sharp corner needs to protrude slightly. but every time I make it stick out enough it no longer seems to be seated evenly on the sole (will take a lopsided shaving), when I get the blade protruding equally from the sole it doesn't protrude right any more relative to the nicker. I tried using the set screws and a tiny turn seems to really change the settings. also, if I managed to get the setting reasonably dialed in, and take out the blade, the set screws never seem to work to "save" the settings. I can't believe a tool like this should take more than 20 minutes to set up (excluding sharpening!) I am therefore pretty sure I am going about this the wrong way.

in case anyone is wondering, the blade geometry is correct and the blade is sharp. it is only an issue of adjusting the blade within the plane

It sounds like you still don't understand it.

1) The blade does not protrude out the side when the nicker is used.

2) The nicker is used only for cross grain rabbeting

[Rob Luter]

Most of my planes are LNs, but I do have 3 Veritas planes - Rabbet, Small Plow and Shooting. I had difficulty adjusting the blade on all of them due to those darn allen retaining screws until I discovered what Jim recommends. Getting the blade properly adjusted and tightened first and then easing the side screws until barely touching the blade worked for me. I actually considered selling all 3 planes until figuring that out.

I have the same three LV planes and used the same solution. Great minds think alike.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

I have the same plane, and yes, it can be "interesting". Sorry Assaf, but I expect I'll only be in Israel if February next year to help, but...
Like the others, I don't rely on the set screws, excepting to LOOSLY set the blade sideways travel. Most older moving filisters never ha the "convenience".
Jim and everyone else is correct about ignoring the grub screws for the blade basic setting. Also the past casting protrusion.
What helps me mostly is the absolute 90 deg. extra fence attached to the metal fence; It makes setting the plane blade SO much easier, even to the pint where I can use it or it's big brother Jack Rabbet Plane to joint boards.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Aaron, if you are in Israel PLEASE try and let me know. I would be delighted to finally meet a fellow Creeker face to face.

[Tony Shea]

I actually really like my LV Skew Rabbet plane. Once you figure this plane out I think you'll love it as well. I can take heavy cuts or light passes and get great results. I personally never set the knicker below the sole of the plane and use gauge marks to prevent tearout when going cross grain. The key to setup is def getting the point of the skewed blade protruding just beyond the side. If the knicker is not used the protrusion doesn't have to match how much the protrusion is. I set the blade so it doesn't protrude past the bottom of the sole, with the blade edge parallel to the sole, then set the point of the blade basically flush with the side of the plane. Once you start to advance the blade the point will naturally start to protrude past the side of plane just enough to reach into the corner of the rabbet.

Holding the plane is also a key in getting good results. I NEVER grab the front knob with my off hand. My off hand thumb ends up basically down in the mouth of the plane, which you need to be careful not to cut your thumb....don't ask how I know this. This off hand is also pressing the fence against the work piece edge in order to keep the sole of the plane square to the edge of the board. I think most people try to use the plane similar to a bench plane where you are using the sole as the registering part. The key to fenced planes is to apply most of the pressure against the fence with your off hand and just guide the plane forward with your tote hand. This also assumes you have installed a larger wood fence to the tiny metal fence that comes original. This taller and slightly longer wooden fence makes registration much easier.

Once you get the blade position figured out you then need to get the technique of use dialed in. And then I promise you will love this plane, it's def one of my favorite specialty planes to use.

[Phil Gaudio]

Failed attempt at video posting.

[Jim Koepke]

Just an experiment: indulge me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHi0TMHrv7U

Is this supposed to be the result of your experiment?

499944

If so, you have been indulged.

jtk

[Phil Gaudio]

Ha! It's a learning experience: trust me: it was a good video. Lets try that again:

https://youtu.be/0dGUqZDnX2M

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Great video on using the plane. I would love it if you did a video on setting it up

[Phil Gaudio]

Great video on using the plane. I would love it if you did a video on setting it up

I don't think that video will be winning any academy awards: it was just a quick and dirty experiment to see if I could create a video and post it. Seems to work. I might just do a set-up video: that will be way more effort. Stay tuned.......

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Update:

after reading the responses on the thread as well as the AMAZING response given in an independant thread by Derek Cohen (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?303238-Manual-for-setting-up-the-Veritas-Skew-Rabbet-Plane) I have made some progress:

1) I completely disassembled cleaned and oiled the tool (excluding the fence posts - the last thing I need is to lubricate them and besides - they are stainless steel)
2) I have sharpened the cutting wheel on a dia-sharp XX-fine followed by a careful use of a leather strop with veritas green compound.
3) I got rid of the front knob (at least for now).
4) I unscrewed the blade alignment screws and instead tried to seat the blade through conventional means (hammer taps)

I used an end of a piece of hard maple I had lying around and tried to plane a rabbet into it.
it worked OK not nearly as smoothly as I see on the videos, and felt Ike it took an unreasonable amount of effort.
I did manage to get very thick shavings but it felt like I wasn't making them every single pass, and the throat seemed to choke on me.
I am not sure how else to describe it, the cut wasn't stepped or anything but as soon as I rotated the cutting disc to the "safety position" it became noticeably easier to plane - the rebate didn't change noticeably so my working hypothesis is that the disc cutter is in the same plane vertical plane as the blades cutting tip and that is causing unnecessary friction on the wall of the rebate.
the rebate was almost square and I think I could make it more so if I had better lighting (working from by balcony at night)
to adjust the blade I relied on hammer taps.

I plan on resharpening the blade and trying again when I have the time.
I will update

[Phil Gaudio]

Assaf: make its easy on yourself: use a scrap of softwood to get this tool dialed in: it goes way easier. Start off with very thin shavings until you get it dialed in. This may go without saying, but it does not hurt to test how sharp the iron is: I slice a piece of printer/copier paper: if it makes a clean slice on the edge of the paper, you can eliminate that as a contributing factor. The comment about the nicker suggests to me that the nicker and blade corner are not lined up: again, I would focus on getting the blade dialed in and then get the nicker dialed in afterwards: I use a small straight edge and do it by eye. There are a lot of moving parts on this plane: things go easier if you take them one at a time. Phil (still thinking about making that video).

[Derek Cohen]

Phil, a video would be good. I’d like to see it. The reason I chose to use photos, having begun to make a video at one stage, however, was to make it possible to index each set up part and print out the article for reference in the workshop.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

Assaf, I recommend that you concentrate on making rabbets with the grain, instead of across the grain. That way you won't be using the nicker, so have one less thing to fiddle with. When you are comfortable making these rabbets, you can explore doing crossgrain rabbets, which use a nicker.

One thing at a time.

[Jim Koepke]

Agree with what Warren said.

Start by keeping it simple then work on up the line.

jtk

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

I will try. I am getting better results. just still far more finicky then my benchplanes

[Jim Koepke]

I will try. I am getting better results. just still far more finicky then my benchplanes

Don't feel bad, it took me a while to get rabbet planes to work well.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

I'd also encourage you to start with rabbets along the grain.

I recently had to cut dados and rabbets across the grain and tried it with a Stanley no. 50. I fiddled with the plane and didn't like the results.

These are my test pieces. The wood is soft pine, it easily tears so the edges are no crisp after the nickers. I don't think this plane was ever used for cross grain cuts. The plane does ok on along the grain rabbets.

500209500210500211500212

In the end I cut the dados with a back saw, chisel and a router plane. I got a better fit since the width was determined by the board going into the dado and not the width of the cutter. The joint was solid and neat.

500213500214

What I'm trying to say is that there's more than one way to do things. I chose the long way, but for what I was doing it was better for me.

That fancy LV plane will probably work well eventually, but don't get mired in handling all the features at the same time, use it for simple rabbets first, then progress from there. Be cautious of the overcomplicated tool, elaborate jigs, over accurate methods, etc., they're distractions.

[Charles Guest]

Hi all,

I joined the creek approximately 2 years ago, and my tool collection has grown pretty dramatically. The only plane i have never been able to set up really well is the Veritas skew rabbet plane. So far it has been the bane of my existence.
Ive seen a few videos on troubleshooting the plane, and read the manual but i still haven't been able to get it fine tuned. Anyone here willing to post a dummies orientated tutorial on proper set up of tool?

Thanks,
The dummy

Be very careful to maintain the skew angle when you hone and also don't inadvertently round the iron's corners.