SawStop suspicion

[robert kempisty]

This is simply my observation but I'm wondering if SawStop gives away their table saws to popular YouTube woodworkers. I've never used one but find it difficult to believe that every one of those channels suddenly decided to get rid of their expensive table saws and buy a SawStop. Is it just about safety of do these saws do something that My Delta Unisaw doesn't? I've tricked out my Unisaw with a fold up roller extension, under-mount router with it's own T-square slot and rolling base because my show doubles as a heated car repair space. For 25 years I've loved it and grin every time I use it and have never once even come close to injuring myself. I've seen channels with my same setup suddenly get replaced by a SawStop. Am I missing out on something?

[Jason White]

It’s not uncommon for tool companies to offer free or discounted products to TV shows or YouTube channels. It’s relatively cheap advertising for them.

[Tom Trees]

Can't say I'd blame them, from a European or UK perspective, as the approach is done differently in regards to safety.
Seems if you learn from someone using a Sawstop, then you'd better get one too!
or to take the UK HSE approach instead,
450mm pushsticks, RK's mandatory, short fences, crown guards....everything done to accommodate cutting just so, and not be a pain in the @r$E,

i.e having a jig for yer fence so you can keep the guard on, or whatever needs done, likely something done for safety and accuracy.

Though it must be said the Sawstop design is an improvement with the RK, lets hope it might be more the usual in time,
and perhaps give those older machines a new lease of life, when someone's clever enough to figure out to make a decent bolt on version,
and make them by the thousand. :cool:

Two folks I can think of, who do things by the UK HSE advise are Steve Maskery, and the older stuff by the esteemed Roy Sutton.
If you watch those folks you might see some differences. (both on youtube)
I'm getting itchy to get at stage two on my machine, some of the stuff in Roy's video has the answer for what I need to do.

All the best
Tom

[Jay Houghton]

Well, it's true that product placement is cheap advertising but I doubt if getting a $3000 saw free is enough to give up the hosts reputation for objective product reviews and tools advice. I just sold my Delta 12/14 which I really enjoyed but now have a Sawstop PCS which is the 3hp model. It's every bit as good as a Unisaw (I've had 3) or a Powermatic or Jet. Several things make the Sawstop a great saw. First is dust collection. With the overarm hose its extremely effective. Second, the motor goes straight up and down, it doesn't travel in an arc when you raise the blade. Third it's very well balance and smooth with a poly-V belt drive. And finally, the safety technology. Unlike some of the comments here you don't brazenly wave your hands around a spinning blade because it won't hurt you, any more than you speed because you're wearing a seat belt. It never enters my mind that if I'm making a difficult cut the saw will save me. But accidents happen and it has nothing to do with how experienced you are. So why not add that extra layer of protection when you give up nothing to get it in terms of performance? I think that's the main reason why the top YouTubers have embraced Sawstop. BTW, my runner up was a Harvey.
Jay

[Jim Becker]

Product placement is not a new thing and yes, some folks do get product from companies for promotional purposes. Many actually acknowledge that. But many also buy products on their own and seek out new sponsors when one goes away. A big obvious one not long ago was when PowerMatic decided not to renew their sponsorship of the Woodwhisper. Marc moved on and now has a SawStop table saw, a Felder (monster) planer, etc. You have to understand that folks who are influencers and content creators are running a business and sponsors are an important part of that business.

[Dan Friedrichs]

There was an old New Yankee Workshop clip where the producer was doing a shop tour, stopped at the widebelt, and said, "Timesaver just sent us this. Hope they don't ever ask for it back - it's nice to have".

Point being, this is not new, at all.

[Clifford McGuire]

I've wondered the same thing. Often it's accompanied by a video about the new saw. They are careful to say "I replaced my old saw" or "I just aquired this new saw". They don't say "I bought .....".

It's fine, I just wished they'd be more upfront about it.

Many times they are standing in front of a wall of Woodpecker products. I often wonder if that's a paid placement.

[Tom Bussey]

I agree with Jay. I used a General 350 saw since 1992. At first I thought Sawstop was a gimmick. Then a very experienced wood working friend tried to cut his thumb off. I can't begin to tell you about how many one way, two hour trips, he took down two the university hospital in Iowa city. I started woodworking in 1973 and seriously in 1975 when I bought a Shopsmith. It doesn't matter how experienced you are. I got an eight inch jointer in 1996. Not my first jointer and I some how managed to cut off the tip of my index on my right hand about 3 years ago. Simple things like picking up a pencil off from a table, let alone off from a floor I can't do anymore.

An other Tool Maker friend told me he ad bought a Sawstop and that he thought it was a very good saw. Given his recommendation and my experiences I bought a Sawstop PCS. It is a great saw. It has all the bells and whistles I need and I couldn't be happier with the saw.

Maybe Sawstop does give the you tubers saws. If they do it for advertising good for them. I am sure it is cheaper than a small add in a magazine. As far as You Tubers go, most of what I see is regurgitated comparisons between different models of whatever. After watching most of them, using different process, I I doubt that most of them can build anything. I strongly like videos from Frank Klausz, Willian Nu and Rob Cosman. I mention Rob only because he does a good job of selling what he sells. And makes it so you want to try. I take them with a lot of salt and usually do not get through the whole video.

If Saw Stop furnishes them with saws it is wise marketing. A Saw Stop doesn't cost Saw Stop anywhere near the retail price. No profit margins for them or the retailer. And no sales tax because it was given and not sold. Wise cheap marketing if that is what they are doing.

At 77 I chose the Saw Stop because of the safety features. And I got a great saw to boot. I never would have considered a Harvey, because I had a General 350 I wouldn't have even considered let alone buying a new or different saw. Same goes for all the major brands.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

In a related situation, Nikon got the reputation of being the professional photographer's camera by giving free cameras to all the AP and UPI photographers. Got the jump on Canon who they had been battling with for market share.

Cliff

[Andrew Hughes]

If I was given a sawstop I would sell it and buy a table saw with a minimum 12 inch blade.
Im not afraid of table saws so I don’t need electronic safety.
Good Luck

[Richard Coers]

It would naive to think tools and machinery aren't given to YouTube influencers. Note the new word for internet woodworkers, influencers. If the influencer doesn't say I bought this, it was free or seriously discounted. And it makes it easy to say they bought it, when we have no idea how much they paid. Even a post like this keeps the Sawstop name floating around on the internet. A guy in our turning club gained a bit of notoriety with his colored hollow forms. It wasn't long before he brought a 5 gallon bucket full of Glaser tools to a demo. All free. As a reference, why did every actor in Hollywood smoke cigarettes in the movies decades ago? Sales and marketing! And those companies knew they were killing people.

[Patrick Varley]

Wood Whisperer spoke to some of this when he lost Powermatic as a sponsor last year.

https://thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/i-lost-a-sponsor-powermatic/

I have no doubt that SawStop was sending out tools in exchange for exposure at some point. And it probably is convenient that they started right around the time YouTube, etc. started growing. However I wouldn't be surprised if they're no longer doing that as actively. They've established themselves, based in no small part by that initial marketing push, as "name" brand. Coupled with the fact that the safety feature remains very attractive to some people and I think there's ample explanation why they seem so commonplace.

[Michael Burnside]

Mark over at Wood Whisperer has integrity and would not be a shill to any sponsor.

SawStop is a good saw, period. The tech is worth it to me and if it were available on every other high end tool I use I’d buy it there too.

Missing out? Probably not, but I’ve never used the saw you have.

[Warren Lake]

I bought six new general machines in 81. Support canadian and good value at the time. Two are 350's and they have been fine. One for ripping one for cross cutting.

Few years ago bought a small used SCM. probably five times better than the generals.

Hey Andrew. After the old guy passed his niece called and offered me his pretty new low mileage Equinox. I told her no that I would only sell it and buy a better wally wagon so instead you sell it and put the money in the estate. Through his hospital stuff he told me to use his Equinox. First night I showed up at the hospital he asked "did you come in the truck" I said no wally wagon and he got mad. So for four months of his surgery and recovery I drove the Equinox. He didnt trust my old cars. One day towards the end I got him out in the wally and first thing he said was " oh this is nice" It was a shock to drive the wally again after four months in an Equinox.

[Ray Newman]

I have been following the SawStop Saga since about ’02 after reading a Fine Woodworking article. I was very skeptical of its performance and value. Today, I think what we are seeing is woodworkers realizing the value of the SawStop safety feature. Like many of them, I bought a SawStop ICS after a near miss or accident.

From 1987-2016, I ran a 3 HP Uni-saw with the Uni-guard with the disappearing splitter, Uni-fence with 52” table. We were old friends, great machine, solid, robust, and hard working. In 2015, I prepared to do a cross cut and I aligned the board cut mark with the kerf in the mite gauge sub-fence. The work was about 12” wide and my hand was close to the board cut mark and blade. My hand was on the stock and I heard a loud distracting noise in front of the shop as I reached over to fire up the saw and push the stock into the blade. Then for some inexplicable reason, the Little Voice said “Look”! Stopped and looked at my hand’s position – I could have amputated/severely cut two fingers.

Being a bilateral above the knee amputee, I just sat back in my wheelchair and thought about what I almost did. At the time, I was almost age 70 and realizing reflexes/reaction time, etc., were not as sharp as they once were, I needed to think all of this through. Could it happen again, was this a one–of-a-kind lapse? After carefully considering the situation, I bought a SawStop ICS.

The only regret I have was not keeping the Uni-fence for possible mounting on the ICS. I found the High/Low Uni-fence positioning valuable. If SawStop would market such a fence, I would purchase one in a heartbeat.

Reasons why noted woodworkers C. Schwarz, Chris Becksvoort, and Cossman bought a SawStop:
https://blog.lostartpress.com/2016/04/16/33-months-with-a-sawstop/
https://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/08/01/why-i-bought-a-sawstop-table-saw/
https://chbecksvoort.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/august-shop-notes/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSvoV_DWjAE&t=2s

[Jim Dwight]

I think that at least some youtubers who use SawStop saws got them for free or at least got a good deal on them. But I've noticed several saying one way or the other. Some of you may know Home Depot has a "Seeds" program that is invitation only. I was lucky enough to be picked several years ago. It has not included any SawStops or similar value tools but sometimes have appliances with similar value. At least once a month I get an email and asked to pick items I want them to send me. For free. I have to write a review within 20 days of when they send the item and it has to have several pictures. For expensive items they seem to require more. I have not gotten anything really nice for months but over the years I've received quite a few nice Milwaukee tools and other nice items. I said all this not to create any envy but to say I have a little related experience. I tend to rate the "free" items I get well but only if that is what I think. I don't get long to use them but try to use them at least a little before writing the review. The fact that you got something free or for a great deal tends to influence most people to think positively about the item. But if it is junk, I say so. I've never been penalized for it.

So I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other. I don't think they would continue to use a saw they didn't like. I really like my PCS (paid full price). Used it today. I think it is a "high end" saw in terms of construction and accuracy ignoring the safety features. The safety features can be a little annoying sometimes but they also saved at least part of one of my fingers when I got stupid. After several decades of "not a scratch" experience with table saws. If your budget allows, I think they are a good choice.

[Larry Frank]

Just another Sawstop thread with the same old comments. Why does it bother people if someone has a Sawstop?

[Bill Dufour]

The yankee workshop had free tools from porter-cable. If Norm used a none PC tool the name was duct taped over.
On the old FBI Show the cars were provided by Ford. The crooks drove Chevies or sometimes Dodge. Credits were Mr Zimbalists suits by Perry Ellis or some such designer.
Watch a movie or tv show and any drink can or bottle is set down so the label faces the camera.
They say Mexican soap operas are worse. The house wives will be talking and one will mention she bought a new whirlpool washing machine and she loves it. Not related to the plot development or anything. Not totally unrelated their to life. Just any brand would do or no brand mentioned.
There is a line in a Alexander McCall Smith book where the ladies are standing around admiring and discussing the features of her new washing machine. They mention that men will discuss cars for hours but are not interested in washing machines or sewing machines which are also complicated tools.
Bill D

[Thomas Pender]

I have to admit I have noticed the almost uniform use of SS on videos. Smart marketing. But, as I have said before and learned on the bench at a hearing years ago between Bosch and SS, the table saw industry is worth about $400M per year and it causes $2B plus in injuries. As inept and clumsy as I sometimes am, I am grateful to the protection offered. Plus, the dust collection is nice and to me anyway, the fence is a joy on my 3 hp PCS with the 52” fence. Have to posit the pros on the videos discovered that also. Regardless, this was a thoughtful thread and some decent comments.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Robert, no idea if the people received some sort of support to change saws, however even if they didn’t, it’s a smart move.

As an example, I recently purchased a 40/50mm Euroblock shaper cutter with chip limitation to replace my old one.

Why?

I often provide machine training via Zoom so I wasn’t about to use a non MAN rated cutter in a demonstration environment.

It probably is the same for those providing training via YouTube

Regards, Rod

[Jim Becker]

I was thinking a similar thing, Rod. Presenting is all about appearance sometimes, and subsidy or not, using equipment that's is safer (or perceived safer) is a good thing for content creators.

[robert kempisty]

Thanks for all of the replies. It doesn't sound like there are any life changing features on the SawStop as far as performance without taking into account safety. I suppose that I'd consider getting one if I was in the market for a new saw but I really love my current saw. Sorry for the accidents I'm hearing about. I'd bet if I lost a digit or two my wife would switch out my saws while I'm at work.

[Keegan Shields]

Probably helps that SawStop saws are high quality and reasonably priced compared to their non-SS equivalent.

Perhaps more people find their brake technology valuable?

[Jim Becker]

Probably helps that SawStop saws are high quality and reasonably priced compared to their non-SS equivalent.

Perhaps more people find their brake technology valuable?
The cabinet saws are indeed well made....the PCS I used in my temporary gara-shop (which now lives in another 'Creeker's shop) was very solid and well made. So there's no downside to having a good machine with the added safety feature, IMHO. I will admit that I did spend more time than I would have preferred worrying about not inadvertently setting off the safety feature for some stupid reason other than saving a digit or three, so I'm glad I'm back to the slider in the new shop where I mostly avoid having my hands anywhere near the blade at all.

This trend with content creators can go in the other direction, too. I know of one that I follow that just sold his SS and is moving to a short stroke slider.

[Andrew More]

Yes, some of them have gotten SawStops for free, and admitted it on camera to be clear.

I think some of them have bought them with their own money because it's an excellent saw. A lot of them bought it for the safety feature. And I'm sure some of them have also done it because it's the hip, trendy thing to do. The few major YouTubers without SawStops all seemed to have sponsorships from other companies. The Wood Whisperer/Powermatic is probably the best known, but I also think there was Grizzly sponsored Woodworker a while ago.

The only major YouTube woodworker I'm aware of who does not have a sawstop, or a sponsorship deal would be Mike Farrington, and he has a slider, which is not a cabinet saw.

As for it's ubiquity, it's a small market, and it has a unique feature. I think the Rigid oscillating sander is in a similar position. Almost every YouTube woodworker I follow has one, unless they've got some old iron monster. It's because it's a good product at a excellent price in a niche with few competitors.

[Jim Becker]

The Wood Whisperer/Powermatic is probably the best known,

Marc lost his sponsorship from PowerMatic about a year ago. He uses a Sawstop for a table saw, has a "yuge" Felder planer, etc. I do believe that sponsorship entered into a number of the new tools in his new converted firehouse shop, too.

[Andrew More]

Marc lost his sponsorship from PowerMatic about a year ago. He uses a Sawstop for a table saw, has a "yuge" Felder planer, etc. I do believe that sponsorship entered into a number of the new tools in his new converted firehouse shop, too.

Yes, I'm aware. I guess I should have been a bit clearer that before his change over to SawStop he was running a sponsored Powermatic shop, and thus had a Powermatic table saw. He did do a review before the change and said "If you want the safety feature of the SawStop then there is only one option" or something to that effect. I'm not surprised that he changed when the Powermatic sponsorship ended, I almost wonder if he didn't get into trouble with Powermatic about it at the time.

[James Jayko]

I bought a SawStop.

IMO, its the best table saw on the market AND it won't cut your finger off. I think, assuming one has the cash and has to pay for a table saw, its a no brainer to buy a SawStop (unless you go the slider route). Yeah, its more expensive. But its way cheaper than reattaching a finger. Combine that with the build quality? Take everything but price out of the equation and I wouldn't buy anything else.

Now, if Powermatic wants to sponsor Jimmy's Woodshop, I'm all ears...

[Matt Lau]

This is simply my observation but I'm wondering if SawStop gives away their table saws to popular YouTube woodworkers. I've never used one but find it difficult to believe that every one of those channels suddenly decided to get rid of their expensive table saws and buy a SawStop. Is it just about safety of do these saws do something that My Delta Unisaw doesn't? I've tricked out my Unisaw with a fold up roller extension, under-mount router with it's own T-square slot and rolling base because my show doubles as a heated car repair space. For 25 years I've loved it and grin every time I use it and have never once even come close to injuring myself. I've seen channels with my same setup suddenly get replaced by a SawStop. Am I missing out on something?

That's par for course.

FWIW, I think about what I can lose.
I'm a dentist. I've seen 4 much smarter, more successful dentists their careers to a tablesaw.
I bought a used Sawstop off craigslist, and haven't looked back.

[Marc Fenneuff]

Some good discussion here.

My take is that a person trying to make a living as a woodworking content creator on YT, with the long hours and extra repetitive power tool work required by camera setups and resets, would be crazy not to insure their continued livelihood by using a SS.

Mike Farrington is one of my favorites, but he is passively recording his regular business work, unlike some other WW youtubers I watch. Think of the distraction of having a camera person hovering over every operation - even if the camera is static for a shot.

[Rick Potter]

The only way to really know if the You-tuber likes his new free toy, is to see how many times he is seen using it after a couple months.

As others have said, it is common practice. Watch any movie....if you can read 'Cheerios' on the cereal box, 'Pepsi' or 'Bud' on the drink, or 'Dell' on the computer, it is all paid for from some companies advertising budget. Otherwise, it would not be readable.

Can you imagine any famous actor doing a PSA for FREE, announcing how much he likes Preparation H?

[Stan Calow]

I'm still thirsting for some Duff beer, just cant find it.

[Warren Lake]

Rick not sure too many that would get behind that. Maybe one with ample assets, never know.

[Rick Potter]

Hmmmmmmmm.

[Bryan Hall]

I guess Marc is now sponsored, or at least working with Sawstop. This popped up in my feed today:

"The Wood Whisperer, Marc Spagnuolo, has had his 3HP Professional Cabinet Saw for over a year and he couldn’t be happier with it. It continues to deliver the safety and precision he needs no matter what he’s thrown at it – even a move halfway across the country. There’s never been a better time to buy a PCS like Marc’s. For a limited time, you’ll be eligible to receive a FREE accessory upgrade, a $289 USD value, when you purchase any new 1.75 HP or 3 HP Professional Cabinet Saw. Offer valid 3/1/23-4/30/23. Learn more at SawStop.com/Upgrade (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2FSawStop.com%2FUpgrade%3Futm_s ource%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3DBanner%26utm_campa ign%3DPCS%2520Promo%2520Last%2520Chance%2520campai gn-Lookalikes%26utm_term%3DLookalikes%26utm_content%3 Dmarc%2520spagnuolo%2520Video%26fbclid%3DIwAR20Xkl aeCb3JssJ08OW5YP7Xte35SM-2_qbX5zt5cNmlfX4D1cF40MaK6M&h=AT0W5rb-xaVkSpxkesGOyi1Kzvwv6wVGByUC0hQRERv-_-XnluhoH0ncSPBziDaNJEZcAFAdP1vrBqen57VSs2tX6StnMngl hMnsZr1eZePokWl66TTzZIzvmL22wYVxrv2nhahZe6uIXNWtaM 0EMQ&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT1jJHNTjow-ETQgFdONxtDI_fGKviI-sHygV3udkcKmeIAOOrJzsxNigeN-ef01yiQah5z6Lsol4DXR0bKnlPaYpX-9TPiMGvRXyzk-Erbg_touXVWxUxW0y1LKLbJy_xLZVukeMHXVgG5tFnpuJMoqAS KM-3VkluV1dRHgZVKzvgN6VmTabM0qpjlN5SgkFBUhqtXgKFh1x6O BClHtqxFH9IbbkJVLdG_4Mc7zFSQ8mUniNYO_2rexVXvaWC8CU aR1C7x1Q_B_IQYHIk098uvMoCxp2bGGGi9CbtsACjLxb--WnBFWngMvLztDchRqd1vbwbs93Bw-vkJQK1jwr87BmkvkR2u8rr_jxg2Zvwu7)"

[Eric Cothern]

If I was given a sawstop I would sell it and buy a table saw with a minimum 12 inch blade.
Im not afraid of table saws so I don’t need electronic safety.
Good Luck
You may never have an accident and good for you but I am not willing to take that chance with my fingers. I am careful in the shop and the worst i got bit was with my drill press and a forstner bit and I was careful. All it takes is one lapse and then you are known as Four Fingered Andrew. I have had my Sawstop for about 3 years and I love mine.

[Larry Frank]

"If I was given a sawstop I would sell it and buy a table saw with a minimum 12 inch blade.
Im not afraid of table saws so I don’t need electronic safety"

That is the most amazing comment that I have read. I am not afraid of table saws but like any human I can make a mistake and I love my Sawstop PCS.

[Greg Parrish]

I bought a PCS this time around setting up my shop. Previously had a PM66 and a Felder KF500. I respected the blade and honestly never thought about selling either just to upgrade to a Sawstop. Now that I have one, I feel better about the safety feature, but certainly haven't changed my respect for the blade when using it. With my luck, I'll have the one Sawstop that doesn't work when needed or something. LOL However, if I were not limited by space or money and were doing it again, I wouldn't have bought a PCS. I'd have bought an ICS. LOL :)

On another note, almost anything in the shop can hurt you. My last blood draw was with an awl/pick. Slipped off of something and went half way through my thumb in under a split second. Healed up fine but could have been much worse from something as simple as an awl/pick. Regardless of what saw or tool you have, the underlying key is to take your time and be careful. Sharp tools work better and safer, but the also cut deeper. :)