Any tips about buying a skid steer?

[Brian Elfert]

I'm thinking about buying a used skid steer. Any tips about buying one? I thought I wanted a compact track loader, but I have also been told a CTL will need expensive maintenance at under 2,000 hours in most cases. A skid steer is supposed to a lot longer before need repairs and the repairs are less expensive. (The guy who told me this makes a living buying and fixing up skid steers and CTLs for a living.) A skid steer also needs less space to turn around. The main reason I was thinking CTL was to not tear up my grass when I drive out on the grass.

I am getting to be too old to lift heavy things. I mainly want this to move and lift stuff around my property. I have other things I would rather spend money on, but I also don't want to get hurt lifting things either.

[Tom M King]

What is the heaviest thing you have to lift?

[Tom M King]

If it’s just for lifting, look at compact articulated loaders.

[Perry Holbrook]

If it’s just for lifting, look at compact articulated loaders.

I agree with Tom, plus a small loader is safer to operate.

[Brian Elfert]

I would like to be able to lift one ton to lift occasional pallets. Those compact loaders are pretty pricey like $35,000. Skid steers are everywhere used compared to compact loaders. A skid steer I could also rent various attachments to do work around my property.

I considered a forklift, but an outdoor forklift is usually so big I wouldn't be able to maneuver it very well. I've seen what happens to a forklift that is mostly designed for indoor use when they are used outdoors.

[John Ziebron]

If you're talking about getting something to lift and move things that it sounds like you used to do yourself then it seems like you are not talking about that much weight. A small compact tractor with a loader can lift 1000 pounds. And if you have one with turf tires it will not hurt your lawn. A skid steer can turn on it's axis but I can't ever imagine that you might need to do that. If you lift something and move it to a spot all you have to do is back up. I can tell you that any skid steer whether it has wheels or tracks will tear up your lawn if you pivot with it. Skid steers and tractors, like all vehicles, require periodic maintenance and I can't see that cost being much different between the two. And good maintenance will reduce or even eliminate most repairs. Both of these utility vehicles have attachments, like pallet forks and grapples, that you can use for other tasks.

[John Ziebron]

Brian, your last post must have come on while I was still typing my last one. You mention 2000 pounds now and a tractor loader can do that and new will cost you near the price you mention. But it sounds like you are comparing apples to oranges with a new tractor loader to a used skid steer. A used tractor loader will not be that much, albeit that it likely will be more than a used skid steer. But that is because tractors hold their value much better which may be a consideration for you down the road. As far as attachments, any rental place will have attachments for a tractor loader.

[Brian Elfert]

Tom King is suggesting a compact articulated loader, not a tractor. Something like a Bobcat L23. Compact articulated loaders are pretty hard to find on the used market and I can't afford a new one. If I am going to buy something I want it to be capable of lifting something like a pallet of retaining wall block if necessary.

[Jason Roehl]

I’ve used both a skid steer and a CTL in my yard. You can tear up the lawn with either very easily. A skid steer will be more likely to cause ruts, but a CTL will rip the sod off the soil unless you only turn very gradually. Either can turn in its footprint, though.

Since you’re in MN, I can say this—a skid steer will do much better in the snow, and a push box can be a thing of beauty when used correctly. I once cleared 4” of snow in most of the driveways in a 64-unit duplex neighborhood in about 2 hours with a CTL and a push box. Most of the driveways were 4 cars wide. But I did spend a good bit of time spinning the tracks… Not that tires won’t spin, but they do get better traction in the snow.

[Bill George]

A small compact tractor with a loader, and I had a used old John Deere 650 was so handy when we had our lake place. Yes you can buy or make forks for it.

[Paul F Franklin]

My only addition to this thread is to mention that not all (older, used) skid steers have aux hydraulics for attachments that require them, like a post hole auger or some grapples. So if you think you might want to use a powered attachment, make sure whatever you buy has the aux hydraulics to handle them. And if you want to lift a ton, you are probably going to need extra weight in the back, so make sure there are provisions for that.

[Greg Parrish]

Honestly, any of the machines you are looking at have expensive maintenance costs. We have a John Deere 310K backhoe which has been a wonder on our family place. It is used constantly to lift items, from tree trunks to machinery. It has served as a ladder a few times too. It was purchased used with around 2,300 hours on it. The dealer did service on it before sale and I was shocked at what simple filter and fluid changes cost. However, unless you can do all the work yourself, if something like a hydraulic cylinder goes out it's thousands of dollars (JD part $5k for our main boom cylinder, aftermarket around $2k). Tires are $500 to $1k each. Hydraulic fluid and grease are expensive. Diesel burns away faster than you'd think. LOL

My only advice would be to research the unit you are considering until your head is swirling. That way you know what the most likely failure items are and what the expected costs may be. Would suck to buy that used unit and have to immediately drop another $5k on a main cylinder. As mentioned above, for your usage a mid-sized tractor with loader may prove more versatile and depending on terrain maybe even more stable given a longer wheel base.

[Ron Selzer]

think real hard about getting in and out of the cab, can't safely do it when the load is not on the ground
compact articulated loader you can get in and out with the load part way up in the air

[Jim Becker]

think real hard about getting in and out of the cab, can't safely do it when the load is not on the ground
compact articulated loader you can get in and out with the load part way up in the air
The same is true for a compact tractor...easier access than a typical skid steer type machine. I'm using the fork accessories with my sub-compact tractor a lot these days for moving stuff. It certainly doesn't have the capacities you need, but it does prove the concept.

[glenn bradley]

Not to hijack the thread but, what about irregular surfaces. I have a 15 to 20 degree grade on part of my land. Does one type versus another deal with working on angles better?

[Bill George]

Not to hijack the thread but, what about irregular surfaces. I have a 15 to 20 degree grade on part of my land. Does one type versus another deal with working on angles better?

I had a skid steer and soon realized that was an issue, the wheel spacing was fixed and not very wide. A tractor can have the wheels spaced further apart, that is why I sold the skid steer and purchased the compact tractor and loader.

[Jim Becker]

Not to hijack the thread but, what about irregular surfaces. I have a 15 to 20 degree grade on part of my land. Does one type versus another deal with working on angles better?
No matter what the machine type, one has to be very careful with traversing side slopes...straight up and down is the safest. Moving across the slope parallel to the fall is the most dangerous. A skid steer, particularly one with tracks, is probably the best because of the low center of gravity and the wide stance relative to length. In all cases, having something in a bucket or on forks and having to traverse a slope is a very touchy thing that at best can result in a need to change one's underwear and at worse a trip to the ER or morgue.

[Brian Elfert]

JCB makes a skid loader that has the door on the side for easier access. Used skid steers are everywhere compared to wheel loaders. I have the cash to buy a tractor, compact wheel loader, or compact tractor new, but it would use most of the money I have saved for my new garage.

You can absolutely rent for less, but the pain of renting would mean I would only rent if I really, really needed to move something I couldn't do any other way. If I have one right at hand I would use it for little things regularly.

[Jack Frederick]

I’ve recently sold both my Kubota BX’s. I could not have cared for the place without them as I just can’t do the ground work any longer. They won’t lift what you say you want to lift, but how often do you need that kind of capacity. Perhaps a smaller TLB for the day to day and rent when you have the big loads. Inconvenient? Yes, but it might make $ense in the long run. I welded up a set of forks for my tractors to simply hook over the bucket which really increased the utility of the tractors.

[Greg Parrish]

For 15 to 20 degree grades, I’d personally prefer either a tracked loader or excavator, or a larger loader/tractor with wider wheel base. Our backhoe is 4WD and I run it on all sorts of hills and terrain. Regardless, you will have to get comfortable with loads and tipping based on your individual machine. I’ve picked up large logs with our 14k pound backhoe that caused the front end to come off the ground. The rear hoe was capable of lifting, but the machine didn’t have enough weight to counterbalance. That said, a full scoop of dirt in the front bucket allowed the lift with stability.

My concern with a wheeled skid on that terrain would be traction though. It may have lower enter of gravity, but might not be able to climb the hill. Don’t know

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[Jerome Stanek]

You have to be careful if you lift a heavy load high with a skid steer. I stood on one its rear when I had a load of Potash in the bucket and tried to lift it to dump into our blender. It nosed down and the potash dumped out of the becket and then gravity took over and the skid steer rolled back on it rear weight and balance there. had to get the loader to lift the rear end up and the skid steer went bouncing around. Boss couldn't belive you could balance it on it's rear like that.

[Brian Elfert]

The thing I like about the skid steer is the cost and the tight turns it can do. However, it sounds like a skid steer might not be my best option. I think a compact wheel loader is out of my budget and and some of them get real long compared to a skid steer. A tractor has such a long wheelbase that it probably wouldn't work in some of the tight spaces on my property.

I think I am going to hold off on doing anything for now if a skid steer is not a good option.

[Greg Parrish]

Just remember, we don't know your property. We are all basing responses on a variety of factors. My response is based on equipment use on our 62 acres of trees and lakes with some hills. If I were to get one, I'd want tracks based on the hills and wet areas. But for just use on flat, hard ground around our barn, it would work fine I'm sure. For lifting items by myself, I wouldn't like having to exit the equipment underneath the load, but if you have a helper to guide you that would alleviate that concern. Just do your homework on possible maintenance costs and most likely items to break or fail, then decide if it meets your needs.

[Bill Dufour]

I bet the Florida definition of a hill is far less then a California hill. Tractors can have the wheel spacing increased. Some even do it themselves under power.
Of course double wheels increase track width and weight.
BilD

[Brian Elfert]

I have a three acre lot that is pretty flat. The area around my garage where I would get the most use is almost dead flat. I thought I wanted a tracked machine, but there are a lot of good reasons a wheeled unit would work better. The gravel and concrete would eat up tracks and the turning radius is bigger on a tracked machine. I live alone so I have been looking for a good used JCB skid steer with the door on the side. I might want to clear snow with it and a skid steer is supposed to be better for snow removal.

A guy I have talked to says that CTLs are way, way more expensive for long term costs than a skid steer. He refurbishes and sell used ones with both tracks and wheels, but the tracked ones usually cost more to fix and have more issues.

[Tom M King]

I'm sure you would enjoy having one. A tractor works better for my uses at our place. The rare times I need a CTL, like putting RipRap on the shoreline, I rent one. For three acres of mostly flat land, I don't think you really need a tractor. My smallest tractor can lift a cube of bricks, which is around 2500 pounds, so I have something for lifting, which is a Handy thing to have a lot of times. This a 24" bandsaw.

[Greg Parrish]

I bet the Florida definition of a hill is far less then a California hill. Tractors can have the wheel spacing increased. Some even do it themselves under power.
Of course double wheels increase track width and weight.
BilD

Very true. Our land is in GA, but still we are talking small hills or elevation changes, not mountains. LOL

[Ron Selzer]

I live alone so I have been looking for a good used JCB skid steer with the door on the side


very good choice

[Tom M King]

There is a very good thread on skid steers on the ForestryForum with 661 replies (just now), and lots of pictures.

[Perry Holbrook]

Brian, just fyi, Volvo's skid steer is the exact same machine as the JCB. They actually did a joint venture to develop the line of machines, built in the JCB plant in Savannah. Since I worked for Volvo at the time, I got to operate them often. They really are much safer than the original design.

Having said that, I would still prefer an L20 Volvo compact loader and BTW the attachments fit both.

[Brian Elfert]

Brian, just fyi, Volvo's skid steer is the exact same machine as the JCB. They actually did a joint venture to develop the line of machines, built in the JCB plant in Savannah. Since I worked for Volvo at the time, I got to operate them often. They really are much safer than the original design.

Having said that, I would still prefer an L20 Volvo compact loader and BTW the attachments fit both.

The Volvo skid steers made by JCB seem to be harder to find used than the real JCB skid steers. I looked at prices on the Volvo L20 loaders and they are pretty expensive. They are also pretty good size.

[Bill Dufour]

I am no expert but Caltrans seems to us tracked snow plows for deep snow. Less likely to tip and taller. Less likely to be pushed over or buried as deep if a snow bank collapses onto them.
Ski area near me got 61' so far this season. Of course it has packed down to less then 1/2 of that depth. California snow in the high country. tends to stay all winter and not melt off until spring.
Bill D

[Brian Elfert]

Even the “compact” wheel loaders are quite a bit bigger than a skid steer, and not inexpensive for even a used one. The small articulated loaders like the Bobcat L23 are a good size, but there are few used ones and used ones start at $30k.

I saw a JCB skid steer that was listed yesterday for a good price, but the listing seems to be gone now. I don’t think it was a scam because it wasn’t a brand new looking machine for a super low price. It had definitely seen some use.

[Bill George]

Even the “compact” wheel loaders are quite a bit bigger than a skid steer, and not inexpensive for even a used one. The small articulated loaders like the Bobcat L23 are a good size, but there are few used ones and used ones start at $30k.

I saw a JCB skid steer that was listed yesterday for a good price, but the listing seems to be gone now. I don’t think it was a scam because it wasn’t a brand new looking machine for a super low price. It had definitely seen some use.

I paid $6,000 for a used John Deere 650 with a loader.

[andrew whicker]

I recently bid a job that required "something" to lift heavy pallets on my gravel lot. I looked and talked to a lot of people and eventually, I kept finding myself looking at bigger tractors. Maybe not huge, but farm tractors (like ones used to stack hay). They seemed to have the most bang for buck and, ultimately, the most options.

The skid steers are cool.. for dirt and gravel. I don't want one for a fork lift. Can you even exit the machine to check on a raised load?

The small tractors are nice.. except they are very expensive and can only lift 1000 lbs.

The outdoor forklifts are pretty dang tempting (Harlo style), but again, they are super expensive and they can only do one thing.

The outdoor telescoping forklifts are amazing. But the prices are 6 figures.

So... I just kept coming back to larger tractors used on a farm. 3 point hitches w/ PTO, tons of HP, tons of lift capacity, and definitely the best bang for the buck.

Here's two "near" me that seem worth a look if I wanted "something" to lift pallets and move dirt:

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/70533603

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/71398110

[Ron Selzer]

"So... I just kept coming back to larger tractors used on a farm. 3 point hitches w/ PTO, tons of HP, tons of lift capacity, and definitely the best bang for the buck."

Hard to impossible to see where the forks are at, take a lot of room to maneuver, can need expensive repairs, need rear weights added, 1000lbs on rear bare minimum, 2000lbs is better, seen some with around 5k on the back. Front axles break when overloaded. nothing like having the back corner or the complete rear end of the tractor come off the ground and wondering how high it will get or will it even stop. Lots of farm tractors used for what you want and lots of owners have moved on to telehandlers, articulated loaders, compact trac loaders etc and got rid of the farm tractors. Sure beats having nothing.

every option has it's pluses and minuses. they all can be dangerous to deadly if not handled properly and with respect. Skid steers can end up face down, on the back. all can end up on the side, etc.

WEAR THE SEAT BELT, HAVE A ROLL BAR, MINIMUM, ROLL CAGE IS BETTER

If money was no object, then a compact articulated loader best meets what you have written as requirements.

However I get the feeling that money has a big say in what you buy. Think hard, search far and have it carefully checked over by a good mechanic familiar with the machine before buying it.

Good luck
Ron

[Bill Dufour]

Not sure how it works but in California smog laws can make an older diesel engine machine unsellable. Under like 35 HP no problems. You say only in Californioa but your state or the feds could change that tomorrow.
I have seen diesel machines at auction to be sold only to those who have proof they will take them out of state. Things like fork lifts, stump grinders, fire trucks, irrigation pumps etc. Not just stuff with a license plate.
Starting january 1,2023. 2009 and older diesel trucks are stopped at the California border.
Bill D.

[andrew whicker]

Yep. Obviously everything has down sides. But a 25k to 30k compact tractor (which is what they go for around here used) vs a 12k - 15k beat up farm tractor...

I never had to pull the trigger, maybe if I did I'd have buyer's regret. I'm just saying that, like wanting single phase equipment, you can sometimes limit yourself to the things everyone wants and end up paying a much higher premium.

In the case of tractors, the cost per HP / cost per lift capability for a small tractor is very high. So I guess ask yourself how much you care about losing SOME efficiency in daily operation vs having the BEST tool (if money were no object).

[Brian Elfert]

I really need to stay at $20,000 for this. Some of the Chinese loaders would meet this requirement if I imported one directly from China. The problem is what happens when you need parts? You can buy Chinese loaders from dealers in the USA, but they aren't that much cheaper than the Bobcat loaders. The Chinese loaders sold in the USA seem to be over $30,000, but they typically have Kubota or other brand name diesel engines instead of some no name Chinese diesel engine you get when importing direct from China. Cast Loaders are made in Italy and seem to be decent units, but they cost close to $40,000 new. They have only been imported for about fives year and the cheapest used is still $30,000.

Yes, you can get dirt cheap skid steers under $10,000, but they are usually older than dirt and some even have gas engines. Some of the really old ones are brands no longer made so who knows if you can parts? I've purchased really old stuff with lots of hours and been burned badly. The cheap upfront cost can end up costing a lot by the time you reaplce all the failing parts, if you can even get the parts.

[Brian Elfert]

I recently bid a job that required "something" to lift heavy pallets on my gravel lot. I looked and talked to a lot of people and eventually, I kept finding myself looking at bigger tractors. Maybe not huge, but farm tractors (like ones used to stack hay). They seemed to have the most bang for buck and, ultimately, the most options.

A regular farm tractor may be cheap (haven't checked), but they are way too big for my property. They also tend to require a lot of space to maneuver and I don't have that space. Right now I have pallets of building material stacked on the concrete portion of my driveway. That section is 22 feet wide. It would be pretty much impossible to use a farm tract to move those pallets around without driving on my lawn. A skid steer would barely be able to do the job.

I have been looking at Volvo and JCB skid steers with the side door where it is easier to get in and out of the cab. I wasn't even thinking about the dangers of possibly being under a load getting in and out when I started looking at the JCB skid steers.

[Ron Selzer]

Brian, probably way out of your price range however take a look at Hummerbee Classic. Just ran across the add, looks like it would be exactly what you want IF you could find a used one.

Ron

[Brian Elfert]

The only price I could find online for the Hummerbee Classic is $74,000. Nice product, but I could find a number of nice products for less money with better local support for that price.

[Ron Selzer]

The only price I could find online for the Hummerbee Classic is $74,000. Nice product, but I could find a number of nice products for less money with better local support for that price.

Never thought it would be that much, looked like exactly what you want.
NO way at that price, probably no used around either as they would get snatched up fast.

[Greg Parrish]

What about a Bobcat Toolcat. Might be able to find one close to your price point. Rated to lift 1,500 it says. Little less than your goal, but still a lot of weight and a versatile looking tool.

https://res.cloudinary.com/doosan-bobcat/image/upload/v1655210312/bobcat-assets/na-approved/products/toolcat/multi-model/literature/b-1829-toolcat-utility-work-machines.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/227382716540028/

[Ronald Blue]

One thing I haven't saw mentioned is anything on tracks will "pitch" when you traverse any lip, drop off, or even a small ridge. It's just the nature of the beast. The faster you are traveling the more violent it is. A skid steer on tracks is more capable of lifting because the fulcrum point is further forward. The Tracks do increase lifting capacity because the forward idler is right at the front of the machine.

[Ron Selzer]

Brian, definitely in your price range but probably too big. There were smaller versions made in the 1960's and 1970's before skid steers, different manufactures
google White 4-78 in Maumee, OH, USA
Allis Chalmers, International, Massy Ferguson, Ford, Case, all had them .

[andrew whicker]

https://www.liftstoday.com/listing/for-sale/216444475/1990-harlo-hf456-rough-terrain-forklifts

Check this guy out

[Ronald Blue]

One of these might work for your needs. They have the needed capacity and don't have a huge foot print like a tractor would.

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/search?Category=1036&Manufacturer=PRINCETON&sort=6

[Kris Cook]

Brian - I am in the construction business and mostly bigger equipment but reading your original post and your replies I am finding it hard to understand why you want to buy a machine as opposed to renting.

For occasional moving/lifting you can rent a machine and have it delivered many times over for what you are considering spending.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Late to the party, but figured I’d weigh in as I have been in similar situations in the past and have operated almost all the machines mentioned in this thread at one point or another.

There is not a magic bullet (for $20k) that will tick all of your boxes fully and completely. Outside of a dedicated forklift, lifting capacity it generally directly related to overall size / length / weight / ballast capability & price on the other machines you’re considering. This all applies to forklifts as well, they can just achieve so much more in a tighter package, though they are strictly for lifting and have limited outdoor mobility beyond tightly compacted gravel even on pneumatic tires.

Farm tractors with loaders have to get fairly large (~60 hp +) typically to be able to reliably lift 2k # and even then you will likely want some rear mounted counterweight or weighted / liquid filled tires for extra ballast. The turning radius on such a machine is abysmal in tight spaces and they are really a compromise when it comes to lifting heavy loads with forks, fork visibility, front axle turning and braking when loaded that much.

When lifting 2k lbs or more, you have to be pretty careful with a wheeled skid steer and at least select a model that not only has the specs on the loader but also enough counterweight / low CofG to keep it from tipping easily. Tracked machines have a bit better CofG for lifting most times, but similar restrictions apply. A side exit/entry door would be essentially if lifting alone. There have been many times where I was stuck in the cab with a load that needed some help/tweaking/extra visibility/whatever outside the cab and that is that if you’re in the cab with a load lifted and it can put you in some tight spots. Visibility inside the cab of a skid steer cab generally can be pretty poor as well compared to some machines, but take the good with the bad. Not the best strictly lifting choice, but probably your only realistic option in this budget that is a compromise. I have used a wheeled skid steer with over the tires tracks that did not get stuck in even terrible deep mud, but would absolutely destroy a lawn in a couple of turns if not careful.

My favorite type of outdoor forklift is a *small* telehandler (telescoping forklift) with 4 wheel steering, etc, but space to operate and maintenance costs will likely rule this out for your situation. It solves a lot of problems associated with forklifting operations on the smaller / more jack of all trades machines, but comes with it’s own set of limitations and headaches.

All of these machines will have costs and potentially expensive repairs, maintenance and operating costs. Farm tractor probably the lowest if acquired in excellent condition, but even there can be some expensive repairs over time.

We don’t know your property and exact details, but I totally get wanting to own something and have it around to help with misc lifting / moving / etc and not have to even think about renting. A larger skid steer with plenty of weight to it and side entry/exit is probably the most flexible option in this case if it has to be only 1 machine, but it’s hard to say without seeing the property and knowing all the use cases needed.

[Jim Becker]

Brian - I am in the construction business and mostly bigger equipment but reading your original post and your replies I am finding it hard to understand why you want to buy a machine as opposed to renting.

For occasional moving/lifting you can rent a machine and have it delivered many times over for what you are considering spending.

I agree that this is worth considering, but when I looked into renting with delivery/pickup, it's about $1000 a shot here in SE PA for a one day rental. So it would really come down to how often. I get the feeling that the OP want's a bit more frequent use than would be cost effective for a rental, but I could be wrong about that.

[Brian Elfert]

Brian - I am in the construction business and mostly bigger equipment but reading your original post and your replies I am finding it hard to understand why you want to buy a machine as opposed to renting.

For occasional moving/lifting you can rent a machine and have it delivered many times over for what you are considering spending.

If I owned something I would probably use it on average at least once a week. I'm not going to rent a machine once a week when it costs $400 to $500 every time. The only vehicle I have to tow a skid steer is my motorhome. I don't keep the motorhome insured when not using it. It is also a pain to get the motorhome off and on my property when I do use. I wouldn't ever take my motorhome out in the winter with salt. I took the motorhome on a winter trip once and had to replace all of the brake chambers after that due to corrosion from salt. (It was way too cold to rinse off the salt when I got home.)

I don't have the free cash flow to spend $400 or more per month to rent a skid steer. I have plenty of savings to buy a skid steer and maintain it. I am also leery of renting expensive equipment after an incident with a towable lift last year nearly cost me between $40,000 and $150,000 depending if I was charged for loss of use or not. I made a mistake and the towable lift came off the hitch ball and the safety chains wore through in about 100 yards. The unit hit the curb and stopped. I was lucky the unit wasn't destroyed. It cost me $300 for new safety chains and a bit of labor to replace them. Damage waivers don't cover rental items while in transit and my auto insurance provides no coverage also. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get insurance coverage for expensive rental items. That lift cost $40,000 and the manufacturer is booked out one to two years. The rental agency owner would have be within his rights to charge me the $40,000 if it was destroyed plus loss of use for every day it was out of service.

I sure as heck wouldn't want to have a rental skid steer fall off a trailer and be responsible to replace a $75,000 skid steer. I can insure something that is mine, but not a rental.

[Bill George]

I agree with Brian for me its a 30 mile round trip each way to pick up and return a rental. Plus a learning curve which may not be something a construction person needs to do. By having your own machine you can learn it and then learn to maintain it at the same time. I did fine with my old John Deere 650 diesel with a loader and it was slow but I got it done. Even built a 3 point hitch backhoe for use down at the lake. I ended up selling it and the trailer for more than I paid.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I was sorely tempted to try to buy this as it was only about an hour from me, but I knew I was downsizing and moving away so I didn't bid.

https://www.auctionsinternational.com/auction/16655/item/1972-pettibone-10fm-5-ton-yard-crane-102013

[Brian Elfert]

Although I live on three acres I don't live in the middle of nowhere. I live in a northern suburb in the Minneapolis metro area. Where I live is a suburban style development although the lots are huge like two acres plus. The development started in the late 1970s so there are plenty of trees grown up after 40 plus years.

I don't really want to have some old piece of junk equipment on my property. An all terrain forklift would in most cases be too big to maneuver in the space I have. I also don't want something that is a project. I have enough projects to do without adding another one. I am starting to get the feeling my wants are bigger than my budget. Avant, Bobcat, and Cast all make the type of small articulated loader I really want, but they haven't been manufactured or imported long enough to really have many older less expensive used ones yet. Avant is imported from Finland and Cast is imported from Italy. Not sure if the Bobcat small loaders are made in the USA or not.

You can sometimes get deals at auctions, but you have no opportunity to look at or test the unit before buying. There are a lot of former Sunbelt Rental Bobcats being sold at Iron Planet.

[Greg Parrish]

Although I live on three acres I don't live in the middle of nowhere. I live in a northern suburb in the Minneapolis metro area. Where I live is a suburban style development although the lots are huge like two acres plus. The development started in the late 1970s so there are plenty of trees grown up after 40 plus years.

I don't really want to have some old piece of junk equipment on my property. An all terrain forklift would in most cases be too big to maneuver in the space I have. I also don't want something that is a project. I have enough projects to do without adding another one. I am starting to get the feeling my wants are bigger than my budget. Avant, Bobcat, and Cast all make the type of small articulated loader I really want, but they haven't been manufactured or imported long enough to really have many older less expensive used ones yet. Avant is imported from Finland and Cast is imported from Italy. Not sure if the Bobcat small loaders are made in the USA or not.

You can sometimes get deals at auctions, but you have no opportunity to look at or test the unit before buying. There are a lot of former Sunbelt Rental Bobcats being sold at Iron Planet.

Brian, for what it's worth, we bought our JD backhoe from a local JD dealer and it was a prior Herc Rental. Might be worth checking with the local farm/construction dealers to see if they area also bringing in rental equipment to resell. In our case, it was gone through and brought ready to work as a part of the process. So far its been a great unit that came with some reassurances and short term warranty (90 days or something).

[Jonathan Pace]

I agree with Tom that a smaller loader is safer to use.

[Tom M King]

I don't know about safer, but with almost any type of equipment, the bigger it is, the easier to operate it is.

[Bill Dufour]

I think the compact articulated Italian grape tractors are cute. No idea if thy can have forks or not.
BilL D

https://www.avanttecno.com/us/machines?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqdLFkueg_gIVWxWtBh3U-QXZEAAYASAAEgIqZvD_BwE

[andrew whicker]

I was watching a show about a Michelin rated chef and he was on a grape farm (wine). The tractor there had a swivel seat like a back hoe except it was a bucket on the front and forks on the back!

I thought it was super cool.

[Brian Elfert]

I think the compact articulated Italian grape tractors are cute. No idea if thy can have forks or not.
BilL D

https://www.avanttecno.com/us/machines?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqdLFkueg_gIVWxWtBh3U-QXZEAAYASAAEgIqZvD_BwE

I have looked at Avant. They are made in Finland. It looks like they are around $40,000 new. There are two used ones locally for just over $20,000, but neither seller is including a bucket or forks. At least one of the sellers is getting a new Avant and stepping up to a larger unit so they are keeping the attachments.

Cast is a small loader made in Italy that is similar to Avant, but Cast articulates differently than most articulated loaders. I have no idea how that affects the operations of the machine.

[Brian Elfert]

The ability to lift 2,000 pounds is more of a want rather than a need. I saw that a lot of skid steers can lift that much or more so I thought that would be a good goal. I think the reality is 1,000 to 1,250 pounds would be enough to cover 90% of my needs. I might need a lot more if I ever remove the engine from my motorhome, but I can rent something. Nothing I can buy short of a full sized telehandler or a large all terrain forklift would be able to lift the 3,000+ pounds the engine weighs. The small wheel loaders don't have much hydraulic flow and can't handle all the same attachments as most skid loaders.

The compact telehandlers seem to be a newer thing and are a lot more rare than a full sized telehandler. I almost never see these used.

Here is what I was thinking I might do with a machine: Lift and move stuff. Move dirt around the yard instead of a wheelbarrow. Lift small logs. Rent an auger and drill holes (very rare). Rent a brush cutter attachment (Maybe once or twice ever so not a priority.). Maybe a snow blower. Move snow in the winter.

[Dwayne Watt]

The ability to lift 2,000 pounds is more of a want.

Here is what I was thinking I might do with a machine: Lift and move stuff. Move dirt around the yard instead of a wheelbarrow. Lift small logs. Rent an auger and drill holes (very rare). Rent a brush cutter attachment (Maybe once or twice ever so not a priority.). Maybe a snow blower. Move snow in the winter.

You just described a 40-60 hp compact utility tractor with the 2000 lb loader capacity. In reality, a smaller tractor (30-40 hp) with 1000 lb loader capacity is more than most homeowners with <10 acres will ever use plus you can fit those with a belly mower or just about any sort of 3-point hitch attachment (tiller, post hole digger, blade, box blade, mower, etc) that a property owner might want to use.

[Greg Parrish]

You just described a 40-60 hp compact utility tractor with the 2000 lb loader capacity. In reality, a smaller tractor (30-40 hp) with 1000 lb loader capacity is more than most homeowners with <10 acres will ever use plus you can fit those with a belly mower or just about any sort of 3-point hitch attachment (tiller, post hole digger, blade, box blade, mower, etc) that a property owner might want to use.

I agree. A 3000 series JD would be about perfect. Not as big as our 5000 series, so much easier to maneuver, but larger than the smaller 1000 & 2000 series. Brand new, before the loader, it’s in your price range, so used ought to be just about right priced. https://e-marketing.deere.com/AddAccessories.do?lid=1730701761&newproduct=1357LV&newproducts=1357LV,PPPR_CUT_NO,4110,1795,3SER_5211 _6211

If you pair up the right loader and right model 3000, you can get 1,283 lb lift capacity.

https://www.deere.com/en/loaders/front-end-loaders-for-tractors/300e-loader/

https://www.deere.com/en/loaders/front-end-loaders-for-tractors/

Something like this one with only 200 hours on it for $20,500. Probably some similar nearer to you. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1161236281200647/

[andrew whicker]

skid steer for less than 15k:

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/listing/1996-BOBCAT-763-5024858381

Also, check out this sweet little thing. Never heard of it before:

https://www.equipmenttrader.com/listing/2014-SHERPA-100+Eco-5022789448

[Bill Dufour]

Sherpa? I assume made in India.
A tractor is like many tools you buy. The tractor costs one amount. All the accessories can add up to as much or more then then first purchase cost.
It is cheaper to buy a used tractor with extra accessories then to buy them separately. Get a fEL, mower/brushhog, scraper blade, post hole digger etc in one package that all fits the machine. This also avoids having to figure out how and where to mount the extra hydraulic controls.
Some companies sell used tractors with accessories included. They may have a package deal including some new and used accessories included as well as a new trailer to tow it all home with.
Bill D

[Brian Elfert]

The Sherpa units are made in the Netherlands. That unit lifts less than 1,000 pounds so a bit small for what I am looking for. There are plenty of these like the Toro Dingo.

there are plenty of cheap skid steers. The folks here have recommended I not buy a skid steer except maybe the JCB/Volvo units with the door on the side.

[Jason Roehl]

What motorhome do you have that the engine weighs 3000 lbs? That’s well into Class 8/heavy duty truck territory (semi tractors).

[Curt Harms]

The ability to lift 2,000 pounds is more of a want rather than a need. I saw that a lot of skid steers can lift that much or more so I thought that would be a good goal. I think the reality is 1,000 to 1,250 pounds would be enough to cover 90% of my needs. I

I think the 90% might be key. Buy something that will do 90% of what you need, rent to cover the rest. As far as removing the engine, 2 ton engine hoists are pretty cheap.

[Greg Parrish]

What motorhome do you have that the engine weighs 3000 lbs? That’s well into Class 8/heavy duty truck territory (semi tractors).

I'm guessing it's either a Super C (like Dynamax, Newmar, Renegade, Seneca, etc) built on a Freightliner chasis, or maybe a custom Super C built on a Semi Tractor. On the other hand, a 400 to 600 hp diesel in a 45' diesel pusher might weigh that much too. Regardless, I doubt the V-10 in our 35' gas motorhome weighs anywhere near that, even with the transmission included.

[Brian Elfert]

What motorhome do you have that the engine weighs 3000 lbs? That’s well into Class 8/heavy duty truck territory (semi tractors).

Coach bus with Detroit Series 60 engine.

[Brian Elfert]

I think the 90% might be key. Buy something that will do 90% of what you need, rent to cover the rest. As far as removing the engine, 2 ton engine hoists are pretty cheap.

You aren't pulling the engine out of a coach bus with an engine hoist. There is only a few inches of clearance above the engine. Machinery of some sort is generally used and most often a forklift. Many coach buses have a engine cradle to make removing the engine a lot easier, but mine does not.

[Greg Parrish]

Ah, you got a big boy motorhome............. :) That makes my 35' gasser look like a tinker toy. LOL Would love to have one of the new custom Prevost builds that many companies make, but not going to be in my budget unless I win the lottery.

But, to respond to a comment you made earlier, you sure as heck don't want to be dragging a rental equipment trailer around with that sucker. What a pain in the butt that would be just to rent a skid steer for a weekend.


Coach bus with Detroit Series 60 engine.

[Brian Elfert]

Ah, you got a big boy motorhome............. :) That makes my 35' gasser look like a tinker toy. LOL Would love to have one of the new custom Prevost builds that many companies make, but not going to be in my budget unless I win the lottery.

But, to respond to a comment you made earlier, you sure as heck don't want to be dragging a rental equipment trailer around with that sucker. What a pain in the butt that would be just to rent a skid steer for a weekend.

I will use the motorhome to fetch something from a rental center one to three times per year, but yes it is a pain. Even more since I have to plan ahead and get the liability insurance activated beforehand. Mine is nothing like a Prevost. It is a 1995 that I converted myself. What I spent would be a down payment for most Prevost motorhomes.

[Greg Parrish]

I will use the motorhome to fetch something from a rental center one to three times per year, but yes it is a pain. Even more since I have to plan ahead and get the liability insurance activated beforehand. Mine is nothing like a Prevost. It is a 1995 that I converted myself. What I spent would be a down payment for most Prevost motorhomes.

Yes, its shocking what these things cost these days. One thing I learned with our progression from bumper pull to 5th wheel to motorhome is that you never pay retail or sticker price. Other than maybe during supply shortages during CoVid, you should be getting 30 to 45 percent off the retail/sticker price. If not, keep shopping. We bought our 2017 Jayco Precept UP35 back in January 2018 at a large RV show. We got 40% of the sticker price and it still cost a fortune. I know they had plenty of mark-up in it even at that price though because they took my F-350 and 5th wheel on trade for my asking price, sight-unseen. That industry is like the auto industry on steroids I'm afraid and the build quality control on most is left to the purchaser to QC. We don't drive ours as much as we used to, but we still stay in it quite a bit. But, I hate dragging our 14' trailer and Polaris Ranger behind it because it becomes so long I can't get into any gas stations. Yours may be easier since you can go to the Semi lanes at a truck stop though. Cheers.

[Brian Elfert]

I usually tow a 24 foot enclosed trailer so it is a really long combination. My friends and I have managed to get into some pretty tight gas stations. Sometimes I can get better prices at a station without truck lanes.

[andrew whicker]

Do you need a CDL to drive this thing?

[Greg Parrish]

Do you need a CDL to drive this thing?

You don't on a standard motorhome, like my 35', even when attached to a long trailer making the combo near semi length. I don't think most states require it on a bus style motorhome either as long as its personal use and not chartered for passengers. But, I could be wrong.

[Brian Elfert]

Do you need a CDL to drive this thing?

No. There is an exemption in all 50 states so far as I know to drive an RV without a CDL. Some states require a special non-commercial license if over a certain size and weight. I went through all the reading, testing and such to get my CDL permit at one point, but it turned out I didn't need a CDL after all so I never did the road test. (Insurance company at a job was going to require a CDL on private property, but the insurance company decided not to require a CDL.)

I know all about the tests and checks you need to do on the vehicle and I do them. I make sure the compressor can recharge the air system in the right amount of time and all that.

[Brian Elfert]

I am looking at buying a used Power-Trac loader with a bunch of attachments. Power-Trac makes these things in the USA and these are designed for a homeowner with a decent size property to maintain. The bad part is the drive to get it means hundreds of dollars in tolls.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

This interesting video showed up in my youTube feed.


https://youtu.be/bfgEr-nPCv8

[Brian Elfert]

I happened to get that same Bobcat history video recommended in Youtube last week. I have not been watching any equipment videos on Youtube so I wonder if they used my Google search history?