New Old Shaper - Wadkin BEM

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have been looking for a larger shaper for a while now and after many other similar sized machines fell through / didn’t work out, I’m pleased to report that this 1988 Wadkin BEM shaper / spindle moulder is part of the stable. One of my goals with acquiring a larger shaper is to be able to properly and safely cut longer tenons (passage, entry doors and the like) and I think this machine could be a good candidate for that. More on that below.

12 HP, 240v, 3 phase motor with an amperage meter
4 speed belt drive - 3600, 5400, 7200, 8640 RPM
1 1/4” reversible spindle with about 7” under the nut and a foot brake
All cast iron - base, top, and fence.
table size is 36” deep x 43” long and the literature says it weighs ~1500 lb. I have a couple of other machines right around 1500# and this one felt heavier for some reason...I must be getting older.

An interesting design feature with the fence is that instead of bolting down to the fixed table, as per usual, it tightens to a threaded hole in the largest table ring. There is a lever on the front under the table that either locks or unlocks the rotation of the table rings so the fence can be rotated 360* to accommodate or adjust for infeed and/or our feed obstacles without having to move the base of the machine. This will come in handy in my tiny, obstacle-laden shop. The fence is also 100% cast iron and has a nice micro adjust and quick and easy lever for adjusting the faces tighter or wider. OEM hood/guarding is gone but there is a shop made one from the PO.

The shaper conveyed with some nice tooling and a Steff 2034 3 wheel feeder. I will likely keep most of the tooling, at least the Schmidt corrugated head and Oertli adjustable groover, but will likely sell the Steff feeder as I have a Comatic DC40 that I already love and have mounted on this machine. I have this machine nested perpendicular with another shaper where I can use the DC40 with the long arm on both machines.

Another note is the ProScale DRO. I peaked inside it enough to see that the LCD display circuit board is corroded beyond repair and I will be ordering a new display. A high end DRO measuring spindle / quill height is something I have always wanted on a shaper after getting a ProScale on my planer, so this is exciting.

continued below...photos did not present in the order I chose them for viewing...

[Phillip Mitchell]

As for tenoning, thanks to Brent Stanley giving me a slight nudge, I have a Wadkin cast iron, bolt on sliding tenoning table on its way to me from the UK. I will drill and tap the table as needed for be able to mount the tenoning table on this BEM as needed and remove it when not tenoning.

These are photos from the listing and an old Wadkin catalog photo someone shared with me of the same tenoning table in use.

Obviously, the overhead frame/support for the sliding screw clamp limits the width of stock to around 11” that can fit on the sliding table, but given most of what I am
tenoning is house door rails or narrower, then that should accommodate most tenoning operations that I’m likely to encounter.

The next step is bending over before placing an order for tenoning disc tooling, but I’m not quite ready for that yet. I will likely go with Whitehill discs. Not sure what diameter yet.

Thanks for looking. Always exciting to get a new old green machine into the shop.

[Bill Dufour]

I would not call a proscale dro high end. High priced yes. On a shaper you do not to need the dro to do much math beyond simple offsets, add, and subtract. I doubt most would need more then one scale but I can see using up to three scale inputs. Four if the spindle tilts.
BilL D.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Ok, well now the fun begins. I wired the appropriate plug and just tested the machine. The motor / spindle started but seemed to struggle for a second or two and then cut off.

Next attempt results in clicking coming from the starter box. I can see one of the small black buttons moving when I try to start. I will try and circle it in a photo below.

I thought it was running on 240V, but could it currently be wired for 480v?

My RPC is rated for ~10 hp / 30 amps 3 phase at 240v, fwiw. This may be on the edge, but have never had trouble with a 9 hp planer or 9 hp table saw. The shaper motor tag says 27.4 amps at 220v.

Thanks for any help.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I would not call a proscale dro high end. High priced yes. On a shaper you do not to need the dro to do much math beyond simple offsets, add, and subtract. I doubt most would need more then one scale but I can see using up to three scale inputs. Four if the spindle tilts.
BilL D.

Bill, I am only going off my own experience and comparing to something like Wixey / iGaging. I’m sure there are more high end and complex DRO out there. I would say a DRO that measures precisely and accurately to the 0.001” reliably is high end enough for what I’m doing and I am particular about my work. I am not a metal worker, though and those tolerances are fine for me. Amazing that’s what you picked out of the several hundred words I wrote above about the shaper :D

[Warren Lake]

are you making sure the manufactured phase is not run to the coil? that is important.

On one machine on the combo if I start the shaper sometimes it just groans and does not spin. If I hand spin it first hit start its fine and will work all day. Maybe I need a pull cord start. I joke but there was a guy up here with a home made roto set up and he did have a rope that was wound and pulled to start it.

[Bill Dufour]

I can not say much about such a high end tool as that massive shaper. i was just trying to say the DRO is nothing that special. Do not put too much money into keeping it original. Probably cheaper to replace the entire unit rather then get a new circuit board. If you can find one. What corroded it?
I think that black button is the reset. I would push it in(with a piece of dry wood at least 12" long) and hold to see if the motor comes up to speed. I bet the coil voltage is too low to hold it in. Either 440 coil running on 220. Or it is supplied from the generated leg of the RPC. Often RPC controls do not like the generated leg voltage. Just interchange two input leads. Of course that may risk reversing the motor. Requiring shifting two motor leads.
Or ,as you said, the motor may be wired for 440.
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

Turn on your table saw then try to start the shaper. If that works your RPC is too small.
Bill D

[Phillip Mitchell]

Turn on your table saw then try to start the shaper. If that works your RPC is too small.
Bill D

Thanks Bill. I had that thought and will try that tomorrow when I get back in the shop. It is certainly possible that the RPC is undersized, though I was thinking it wouldn’t be a problem.

I didn’t think that the manufactured leg is running through the controls, but I will have to test tomorrow and confirm.

Studying the photos, it does appear to be wired for 240v. I have to say that this is my first experience trouble shooting starter / overload protection wiring so I would not say I have experience with this particular part of the process. Open to any help/suggestions so thanks.

[Warren Lake]

in the Roto I used 10 HP started 10 HP with three levels possible to order of that model. Had bought middle with added gizmos. Started anything 10HP even heavy load. There was also one model up for refrigeration and other.

[Bill Dufour]

Another choice is the stop circuit may be bad. Many times the stop circuit is bypassed when the start button is pressed. No harm should come from holding in the start button for a few seconds to see if the motor will come up to speed.
They can be hard to trace since the stop switch may read closed to a meter but the higher voltage and more amps control signal will not get through poor contacts making a very weak connection. Very common for saw dust to jam the contacts open slightly or burn and act as electrical insulation on the contact points.
BILL D

[Phillip Mitchell]

The RPC is a Kay that is rated to start 10 Hp and has had no trouble for a few years with the 9 hp planer and 9 hp table saw. I can’t remember what the actual FLA are for those machines off the top of my head, but I want to say low-mid 20s (@ 240v)

This Wadkin motor is 27.4 @ 240v, which is not quite the 12hp is advertises, but may be too much for the RPC?

Regarding manufactured RPC leg going into controls,transformer, etc - I will attach again, but looking at this photo I posted earlier - All 3 legs go into the the top of the Moeller contactor (box on left side) and only 2 of them (the 2 on the right at the top - Red & White) trace over to the little transformer to the right.

Does this mean that the leftmost leg (Black - labeled Line 1) just “passes through” / bypasses the contractor and this is the one that should be the wild/manufactured leg? Or am i misunderstanding this wiring? All 3 legs go into the top of the contactor.

Again, this type of wiring trouble shooting is new for me and everything has always worked no problem in the past. I will have to get our the multimeter tomorrow and test to remember which leg is the manufactured leg.

Thanks for any help. I saw video of the machine starting and running fine multiple times (on metered 3 phase) from the seller a few days before I bought it, but it was disconnected from power when I retrieved it, so this is my first time trying to start it.

[brent stanley]

The RPC is a Kay that is rated to start 10 Hp and has had no trouble for a few years with the 9 hp planer and 9 hp table saw. I can’t remember what the actual FLA are for those machines off the top of my head, but I want to say low-mid 20s (@ 240v)

This Wadkin motor is 27.4 @ 240v, which is not quite the 12hp is advertises, but may be too much for the RPC?

Regarding manufactured RPC leg going into controls,transformer, etc - I will attach again, but looking at this photo I posted earlier - All 3 legs go into the the top of the Moeller contactor (box on left side) and only 2 of them (the 2 on the right at the top - Red & White) trace over to the little transformer to the right.

Does this mean that the leftmost leg (Black - labeled Line 1) just “passes through” / bypasses the contractor and this is the one that should be the wild/manufactured leg? Or am i misunderstanding this wiring? All 3 legs go into the top of the contactor.

Again, this type of wiring trouble shooting is new for me and everything has always worked no problem in the past. I will have to get our the multimeter tomorrow and test to remember which leg is the manufactured leg.

Thanks for any help. I saw video of the machine starting and running fine multiple times (on metered 3 phase) from the seller a few days before I bought it, but it was disconnected from power when I retrieved it, so this is my first time trying to start it.
Starting a 9hp planer will probably draw more than a 12hp shaper especially with no blocks mounted. Planer would have all the inertial mass of head, feed rollers, maybe bed rollers if not on seperate motors etc. So I would guess something is amiss somewhere. Could try taking the belt off the motor and trying that.

[Bill Dufour]

Sounds like red and white supply transformer power. Make sure neither is the manufactured leg.
Black should go into the contactor and pass through the contacts only when they are closed.
The transformer takes a tiny amount power off ahead of the contactor.
Bill D

[Phillip Mitchell]

Ok, I am troubleshooting now.

I am still getting clicking in the contactor and shaper motor is doing nothing. The black (reset?) button clicks in when I press the start button on the shaper and then clicks back out when I press the stop button. No shaper motor starting.

I started the table saw an left it running and tried starting the shaper with same outcome - just contactor clicking.

I removed the drive belt that connects the motor and spindle and same result. I agree that it would stand to reason that a 9 HP planer with large diameter cutterhead, etc would be a harder start than this spindle with no tooling installed.

I have identified the Wild / manufactured leg downstream of my RPC in various places via multimeter and it is now marked.

I have verified via multimeter that the wild leg coming through the machine plug/cord and into the contactor as shown is on the far left / Black / L1 and the middle and right / red + white / L2 + L3 are going to the transformer on the right and are not manufactured. Is it correct to think that L1 / black passes through the contactor and is not the leg that is doing the magnetic coil engagement and/or going to the transformer to the right?

I did not initially verify this the first time when I started it (and it ran for a few seconds) and L2 was originally getting the wild leg with the way I had initially wired the plug.

Could I have damaged something that now needs to be replaced by doing this? Does a setting or dial on the contactor need to be tweaked / reset?

What would my next step be in the troubleshooting process?

Thanks for any help.

[andrew whicker]

Congrats! That's an awesome machine. Now I need a 15 HP shaper.

What kind of 3 phase are you manufacturing? Are you manufacturing a Wye or a Delta? My shop is a Delta which gives it a "wild leg", but if your "manufactured 3 phase" gives you Wye then you shouldn't have a wild leg. I'm not sure if there is an advantage to one or the other as three phase motors care only about phase to phase and not phase to leg (as far as I understand. Do your own research, etc.). In both setups (Wye and Delta), phase to phase is the same.

I'm also not sure if the switches care what leg it gets fed even with a wild leg (beyond my electrical knowledge), but most machines are set up so that the wild leg is Leg 2 / T2. You swap L1 and L3 if the motor direction needs to be reversed.

Do you have a photo of the motor name plate?

In my research, I found that most 3 phase motors have a Low Voltage and High Voltage option depending on how you wire the motor. You should be able to wire it either way. On my shaper, the switch doesn't decided the motor wiring. My motor wiring was decided underneath the pop out cover on the motor. There may be a wiring diagram near your nameplate. There wasn't on my big motor so I had to Google the motor manufacturer to find it.

499067

[andrew whicker]

I had a switch doing this (on my single phase 220v table saw) and fixed it by blowing it out w/ air and re-connecting everything. Sometimes it's a loose or dirty connection. ?

The other time, same machine, I replaced the switch and it has been fine ever since.

Did you get to check if it was running before you picked it up?

[andrew whicker]

I'm not an electrician, but it seems like a switch problem not a motor problem. Motors seem pretty simple. I think they'll pretty much run on anything. Maybe too fast, maybe too slow, maybe too hot, etc., but they do seem to run if you give them energy. You could definitely make sure the motor is wired for LV or HV first and foremost. Maybe it's as simple as that.

Obviously, not an electrician. So.. you know. Grain of salt and all that.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Ok, I have gotten it to start and run normal by removing the drive belt to the spindle. What I didn’t realize earlier is that the main black switch on the contactor was being thrown off and I needed to reset it to on. After this I tried multiple start attempts that all did the same thing that happened initially - started, ran for a few seconds and cuts out before it can come up to speed.

The inrush current pegs the amp meter (maxes out at 90 amps) and then settles at 10 amps under no load / no belt.

What does this mean?

To complicate matters further, I opened up the junction box where the starter wires connect to the motor wires and am finding some conflicting information. There was a folded up paper wiring diagram in the box (how thoughtful) and the labeled leads do not match either diagram for high voltage or low voltage according to paper schematic. Im not sure what to make of this.

[Bill Dufour]

If the motor is wired for high voltage and you are supplying it with low voltage it can not take in enough amps past the back EMF so the overloads will not trip.
You seem to have two adjustable overload dials? Red and yellow. I am not sure how to read what they are set to. Give us the two numbers please.
Bill D

[andrew whicker]

https://control.com/technical-articles/three-phase-motors-with-twelve-wires/

This looks promising.



All my motors are 6 wire:

https://control.com/technical-articles/three-wire-vs-six-wire-three-phase-motors/

[Phillip Mitchell]

If the motor is wired for high voltage and you are supplying it with low voltage it can not take in enough amps past the back EMF so the overloads will not trip.
You seem to have two adjustable overload dials? Red and yellow. I am not sure how to read what they are set to. Give us the two numbers please.
Bill D

see this photo

[Phillip Mitchell]

https://control.com/technical-articles/three-phase-motors-with-twelve-wires/

This looks promising.



All my motors are 6 wire:

https://control.com/technical-articles/three-wire-vs-six-wire-three-phase-motors/

I felt like I was understanding that article until it showed the actual wiring diagrams and I can’t seem to wrap my brain around how to translate that to the wires in front of me.

Seems like what I would want based on that is low voltage Wye start and Low voltage delta run, but I don’t know how to mix that with what my RPC is supplying, which I thought was Delta, but this is beyond my pay grade and level of experience so not sure I can even say what I think I’d want or have, to be honest.

[Bill Dufour]

see this photo
Thanks for the enlargement. Looks like his 27 amp motor is running from a 16amp overload. Not sure if the red dial is set to 220 volts for the coil voltage or what that means.
What does the onboard amp meter show when you get it running steady under no load? Then under load as it trips out.
I think the overload is undersized.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks for the enlargement. Looks like his 27 amp motor is running from a 16amp overload. Not sure if the red dial is set to 220 volts for the coil voltage or what that means.
What does the onboard amp meter show when you get it running steady under no load? Then under load as it trips out.
I think the overload is undersized.

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the trouble shooting help.

Here is another photo with the cover open and the yellow dial turned past 16 to the max that it will rotate. I tried it with belt on and this yellow dial overload setting and similar result with tripping occurring before motor comes up to full speed.

Not sure what numerical value that represents, but yes, 16 amp overload setting on a 27.4 amp motor does seem odd. Remember that j did see video of it running normally just a few weeks ago from the seller and they did not change anything.

When I removed the drive belt and got it to start and run normally it pegged the meter (90+) at start up and leveled out at 10 amps when running.

Not sure if you saw the wiring diagram photos and 12 wire motor, but I am now scratching my head about that as the way it’s currently wired does not match either diagram, either high or low voltage and not sure what I’m currently working with.

[Bill Dufour]

If it was 16 amps at high voltage then about 32 amps at low would seem correct. So I think the overloads are set for the high voltage amp draw. This makes me think the motor is wired for high voltage as well.
take all this with a grain of salt as I really now nothing about three phase beyound what a VFD produces which is only low voltage. At least the lower priced VFD's I have bought. I never needed high voltage so never studied it.
Wait for more experienced folks to confirm or deny my theory.
What make is the motor? Maybe some one can come up with a factory wiring diagram. At least for some similar Italian? motor
Bill D