Bowl Gouges

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have a question about bowl gouges. I have been looking at a couple of them and really cannot tell any difference from the pictures. One gouge is by Packard Woods. It say it has a side grind or sometimes called a Celtic grind. The other is the Ellsworth gouge. Is there a difference between the two grinds? If so what is it? Thanks.

[Chris Barton]

Hiya Bernie,

I always thought that an "Ellsworth" grind and a Celtic grind are about the same thing, rounded over corners to the grind.

[Andy Hoyt]

Principle difference is in the spelling.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

Andy, wait I am headed for the fox hole, with my helmet, my favorite cold brew and my 13" tv.

[Jim Becker]

Um, there MAY be a difference in the grind/tip if the profile of the flute is different. My Sorby gouge, which I have ground to the Ellsworth profile and maintain with the Ellsworth jig is slightly different in the tip...because the flute is contoured differently...than my two "official" Ellsworth gouges that it works along side of.

[Raymond Overman]

The Ellsworth grind, by what I understand is a modified Irish grind (Celtic if you will). The bevel at the tip is approximately 65 degrees from the bottom side of the gouge. Irish grinds don't specify angle. Honestly, if you buy a gouge without the swept back grind you can modify it to your own "Weishapl" grind.

I like an extremely long swept back wing on my P & N 5/8" gouge and a short sweep on my 3/8" for detailing.

The key is to be able to get to the bottom of the bowl with the bevel rubbing and controlling the cut. You'll find that Ellsworth's grind may not be the answer for you in this regard. Experimentation and repeatability is the key. Get yourself a protractor with an angle indicator and try some different grinds. Write down what you like and throw out the rest.

The magic of the Irish grind come with shear cuts where you drop the handle end down and ride the long bevel along the side for final passes and cleaning cuts. You get really fine hairs coming off of the gouge.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I took a regular bowl gouge and with the Vari-Grind jig put a side grind or Celtic grind on it with the angle of the bevel being 40 degrees. I tried it out on a scrape piece of ash I had just cut and it actually works pretty slick. I really like that you can do a shear cut or a tangent cut as Bill G. puts it. Turning inside was easy to. Alot easier that with a regular bowl gouge. Thanks again. I appreciate it.