Shooting End Grain with a Chisel

[Jim Koepke]

My son is in Korea and sent me this > Shooting End Grain with a Chisel (https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/1298nt8/chisel_shaving_wood/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) <

jtk

[David Carroll]

It sorta looks like he wet the end grain and then let it dry a little. I wonder if that helps. When freshly sharpened, I can pare end grain like that with a slicing cut, but the part I remove doesn't hold together in a "sheet" like is shown in this video.

Very cool!

DC

[Ray Newman]

Now that was impressive! Wonder what the sharpening technique was?

[Rob Luter]

Probably not white oak.

[Cameron Wood]

Couldn't get it to play.

[Frederick Skelly]

He sure nailed the sharpening on that edge, didnt he? Worked like a hot knife through butter.
I never tried wetting the end grain - wonder what that does for him, maybe keeps the shaving intact?

[Michael Bulatowicz]

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what I’m seeing, but to me it looks like the end grain has been soaked in some kind of flexible transparent adhesive to keep everything together. The shaving seems too coherent and too transparent for its cohesion if it’s just wood.

[Frederick Skelly]

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what I’m seeing, but to me it looks like the end grain has been soaked in some kind of flexible transparent adhesive to keep everything together. The shaving seems too coherent and too transparent for its cohesion if it’s just wood.

You may be right.

[Stew Denton]

I had exactly the same thought as Michael.

[Rafael Herrera]

Water, alcohol, or mineral spirits can soften end grain. The species of wood is also a factor, it's probably a soft type. Sharp chisel also a big factor.

Has anyone tried to repeat this?

[Jim Koepke]

Has anyone tried to repeat this?

Not this in particular, but many years ago an old story about "blocking in" a piece of wood was read that got me to try squaring the end of a piece with a chisel.

The article suggested that this method, supposedly common at one time, was what gave block planes their name.

It described a method of using a square to knife a line around the end of a piece of wood. Then the end was chamfered all around with a chisel and then paird down to the line to produce a squared end.

It worked, but a shooting board or holding the piece in vise and going at it with a plane is much faster and easier.

Also Derek's method of trimming miters inspired me to make a small guide:

498901

It is great for taking off thin shavings with a chisel, but I have not made an attempt to sheer off a specimen as in the video.

BTW, when my son sent me the link he commented that he thought this is how the toilet paper on his base was made.

jtk

[mike stenson]

I've been able to do that, although the shaving wasn't as consistently in tact, with sugar maple. Mostly because when paring the bench dogs flush on my old bench. I suspect the species has as much to do with it as the tool.

[Jack Dover]

Nah, it's just cedar, you can do that to cedar or white pine no problems. There's enough pitch in these woods to hold a shaving together. You could do that to oak too, the shaving will just fall apart once you try touching it, but it will fall down as one piece. The endgrain was just sprinkled with water.

The downside of wetting endgrain is that it will swell it. Especially when area is large. It will soak copious amounts of water and it will pare like soap. But then it will dry and pared area won't be flat, it will shrink opening a gap, and often there's a white residue after water is dry. Or black stains on oak. This works in carpentry where a 1/16" is well within tolerances and the where staining doesn't matter. Chris Schwarz suggested this for furniture making a quite a while ago too, but he suggested using something like white spirits, turpentine or denatured alcohol. And Chris also reserved that for trimming endgrain on something like a dovetailed drawer, so maybe he's still redeemable.

Wetting endgrain was shown by this one guy - Takami Kawai, who runs the Suikoushya YT channel and who is a carpenter. Now it's everywhere, and people claim as much as "this is a TRADITIONAL Japanese technique", something I find very hard to believe. This is a crutch type of a trick that is dictated by plantation grown kiln dried wood to people that can't sharpen - because heavy framing carpentry uses timbers with quite a bit higher moisture content, and it pares fine without any tricks. And even kiln dried DF from a borg store pares just fine if one bothers to learn sharpening properly.

[Jack Dover]

I did. Didn't need water though

[Jack Dover]

Pretty sure a bunch of people do exactly this as we speak, it's not a big deal. Can't really get the fascination with stuff like this. It's as if an ability to take a continuous end grain shaving enables building better furniture or something?

[Reed Gray]

I have seen a number of videos where this is done with a number of different woods, including sugar maple. It is also a common technique on the wood lathe for woods that really want to tear like dry Koa.

robo hippy

[Michael Bulatowicz]

Water, alcohol, or mineral spirits can soften end grain. The species of wood is also a factor, it's probably a soft type. Sharp chisel also a big factor.

Has anyone tried to repeat this?

Good point, Rafael, and good question. I stand corrected. With water on hard maple end grain, it wasn’t terribly difficult.

The first full shaving was too thick (image showing the end grain), so I tried again (image with the ruler).
498917


498916

[Rob Luter]

I’ve seen a number of these type of vids on YouTube. It’s usually framed as an ancient Asian technique or Zen woodworking. The wood is typically a light, hard, fine grained tropical hardwood that cuts like soap. The chisel is normally used with a slicing action as opposed to traditional paring. It looks cool anyway. It reminds me of my days tying flies and making poppers. A single edge razor blade works balsa much the same way.

[Edward Weber]

Sharp chisel aside,
Japanese woodworkers use water in in the shop much more than most western woodworkers.
Swelling wood before planing or paring and swelling joinery after assembly, Kigoroshi
Paring a softwood like cedar can be difficult if the fibers want to crush and pull out before they're cut.
Swelling the end-grain with a little water, reduces tear-out and allows for easier, smoother paring on end-grain fibers than on dry wood.
As Reed said, this is also common in turning

[chuck van dyck]

Pretty sure a bunch of people do exactly this as we speak, it's not a big deal. Can't really get the fascination with stuff like this. It's as if an ability to take a continuous end grain shaving enables building better furniture or something?

Well, I mean it’s subjective, but I supposed it kinda indicates a high level of patience, attention to detail, and skill with the tool. Which absolutely leads to better furniture.

[Jack Dover]

Well, it might seem so, but it's not really. Yesterday I sharpened a random old chisel on a fine India and stropped it a bit - took me exactly 3 minutes (I time it). Then it was able to cut exactly the same translucent shavings, except I wasn't slicing - I was pushing straight, and the grain wasn't wet. Also, I haven't used a guide and made several shavings just like that: not falling apart and so thin a newsprint could be read through it. By the logic above this makes me an outstanding and an exceptional furniture maker. But then I've called the MetMuseum about setting up my personal exhibition and they just hung up on me.

I do agree that "patience, attention to detail, and skill with the tool" leads to better pieces, it's just none of this is demoed in the short above or in my attempts. The only thing it demoes is that an operator knows about a wire edge and knows how to remove it. This is just a parlor trick, nothing else.

[chuck van dyck]

Well, it might seem so, but it's not really. Yesterday I sharpened a random old chisel on a fine India and stropped it a bit - took me exactly 3 minutes (I time it). Then it was able to cut exactly the same translucent shavings, except I wasn't slicing - I was pushing straight, and the grain wasn't wet. Also, I haven't used a guide and made several shavings just like that: not falling apart and so thin a newsprint could be read through it. By the logic above this makes me an outstanding and an exceptional furniture maker. But then I've called the MetMuseum about setting up my personal exhibition and they just hung up on me.

I do agree that "patience, attention to detail, and skill with the tool" leads to better pieces, it's just none of this is demoed in the short above or in my attempts. The only thing it demoes is that an operator knows about a wire edge and knows how to remove it. This is just a parlor trick, nothing else.

Well lets be fair. You are using a lot of words I didn’t say.

[Edward Weber]

Whether the video in the OP was staged or not;

Being able to pare a shaving as depicted, does not make you a great furniture maker by itself, this is true.

If this ability is to be more than a one off or parlor trick, it's in it's application, which is where you don't seem to appreciate how valuable it is.
It's not the skill itself, it's how you apply that particular skill to your joinery and aesthetics. Being able to manipulate wood in this way only augments ones overall skill set. The inclusion of the skill is what makes one a better woodworker.
It's a skill many endeavor to attain, that you dismiss for some reason.

[Jim Koepke]

…
It's not the skill itself, it's how you apply that particular skill to your joinery and aesthetics. Being able to manipulate wood in this way only augments ones overall skill set. The inclusion of the skill is what makes one a better woodworker.


It is a skill often employed in my work:

498994

My dovetails are almost always cut a little proud. This was my first dovetails in poplar. They didn't appeal to me being shaped as is often done on my dovetails and pins.

Being able to take a thin shaving with a chisel helps to keep them from becoming ragged looking.

A useful skill to develop for anyone working wood.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I smell a little smoke.

Still pretty civil so far, Folks. Let’s keep it that way.

[Charles Guest]

There's nothing magical about paring end grain cleanly. You don't have to have ultra fine honing media, special super duper steel or anything like that. That said, making a habit of shooting ends square with a chisel doesn't seem to be a particularly sane way of going about that particular woodworking process.

[Edward Weber]

I smell a little smoke.

Still pretty civil so far, Folks. Let’s keep it that way.

I apologize for my part, it must be from being a moderator myself on another forum.

I know many members only read and don't participate in discussions. Posts from members that simply dismiss others views or methods can have a decidedly negative effect. It much less likely that the read-only members will participate in the future if there is a hostile climate.
This is especially true for those who are new or less experienced. Many are either scared to say the wrong thing and get jumped on, others don't need the headache so they don't contribute.
I've been in all these situations at one time or another.

[Tom M King]

I'm glad to see this trick. It will be fun doing it when I get the chance. The closest I remember doing with a chisel is rolling up dovetail saw tracks on a little tenon cheek offcut. The micrometer is on the larger shaving in the picture.

The see-through shaving was done with an A2 plane iron someone sent me from another forums that they couldn't get sharp. It was done dry.

[Jim Koepke]

There's nothing magical about paring end grain cleanly. You don't have to have ultra fine honing media, special super duper steel or anything like that.

If I've done it, then it can't be magical.

I seemed to have missed anyone saying anything about honing media or type of steel. Some have commented on a chisel needing to be sharp to cut cleanly.


That said, making a habit of shooting ends square with a chisel doesn't seem to be a particularly sane way of going about that particular woodworking process.

This may have just been someone having fun with a chisel in their spare time. My son sent the link to me. He mentioned his opinion that this might be how the toilet paper on his base is made. In my reply he was sent a link to a Kezuroukai competition in Japan.

Sometimes one just picks up the tool closest at hand instead of walking to the tool board to grab a plane.

As stated in an earlier post, my dovetail joints are often cut proud. Often the proud wood is rounded over as a decorative feature. This is usually done with chisels and/or gouges.

In my experience a chisel can be less work than using a plane. A chisel also allows more control of removing only what one wants to remove.

There are many ways to get to the same end.

jtk

[chuck van dyck]

Dunno about this particular piece, but we are often looking at timber framing materials with this sort of video. They tend to be a different beast.

Not something I ever considered but listening to lumber update this morning Shannon mentioned other countries having different kiln drying standards. There would be no reason to dry to 8% in a country like Korea where it is extremely humid. I have no experience there so I am just making this up, but it would make sense the wood would stay a bit wetter.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Chuck, here in the Pacific North West they also stay a bit wetter. Some of the fir in my shop at certain times of the year will act like that in the video.

jtk

[Chuck Hill]

West?!!? I thought our PNW was Pacific North Wet! :p

[steven c newman]

Hmmmm...Thinking about how I used this "Trick" to pare shoulders on tenons....to get that little bit in the corner between the shoulder and the cheek.....although, I do power my chisel along with the chin...so I can sight down the chisel as I go....

Also..if one doesn't like the weather here in Ohio...wait a day...there are even some days where you could merely wait an hour or so...

[Charles Guest]

If I've done it, then it can't be magical.

I seemed to have missed anyone saying anything about honing media or type of steel. Some have commented on a chisel needing to be sharp to cut cleanly.



This may have just been someone having fun with a chisel in their spare time. My son sent the link to me. He mentioned his opinion that this might be how the toilet paper on his base is made. In my reply he was sent a link to a Kezuroukai competition in Japan.

Sometimes one just picks up the tool closest at hand instead of walking to the tool board to grab a plane.

As stated in an earlier post, my dovetail joints are often cut proud. Often the proud wood is rounded over as a decorative feature. This is usually done with chisels and/or gouges.

In my experience a chisel can be less work than using a plane. A chisel also allows more control of removing only what one wants to remove.

There are many ways to get to the same end.

jtk

Sometimes posts are just to the room, in general, or to casual readers.

Somewhere on one of these forums, may not be this one, is a link to a video of somebody raising a beautiful end grain shaving on hard maple with a sharpened but cheap late model Craftsman flathead screwdriver. These kinds of demonstrations serve a valuable purpose IMO, and make a couple not insignificant points, but would be totally lost on people drowning in tools and equipment and always on the hunt for more.

[Mark Rainey]

but would be totally lost on people drowning in tools and equipment and always on the hunt for more.

Yes Charles, too many tools, the majority of which are redundant. And even though you conflict with Warren on some issues, you agree on this. As you reminded us in the past, spend some $$$ on some good wood and make something nice with the tools you have.

[James Pallas]

I believe that most of us on this section of the forum can do this. Plane an end off nice and square. A well sharpened chisel, sharpened by you, and take a shaving. If you have been around here for a while you have done this already. As it has been suggested so many times as a way to test your sharpening skills.For this task some may use a plane, some may use a chisel, some may use a scraper and some may some may use, can I say this, sandpaper. It all works.
Jim

[Cameron Wood]

Sometimes posts are just to the room, in general, or to casual readers.

Somewhere on one of these forums, may not be this one, is a link to a video of somebody raising a beautiful end grain shaving on hard maple with a sharpened but cheap late model Craftsman flathead screwdriver. These kinds of demonstrations serve a valuable purpose IMO, and make a couple not insignificant points, but would be totally lost on people drowning in tools and equipment and always on the hunt for more.


That fits the adage:

"All tools are hammers except screwdrivers, and they're chisels"