Acrylic Shower Enclosures - Long

[Karl Laustrup]

As most of you know we're building a new home. One of the features of the home is that I'm trying to think ahead and am making it handicap accessible.

Because of this I requested the shower in the main bath be handicapped and/or wheelchair accessible.

Brian, from the GC, came up with a Kohler design which seems like it will work. It is an acrylic. It has a ceiling standard, with a light as an option [$300+ option. This seems a little steep for a light fixture]. I have one Panasonic bathroom fan/light combo from our old bathroom. I was going to get a new one for the new house, as we'll have two bathrooms. I want them installed in the shower as they will exhaust the steam and provide light.

Nobody wants to cut the opening for the fan because if they mess it up they just bought a $2200 piece of junk shower enclosure, even if I have the factory just cut the hole for the optional light they provide.

Question one, is how do you cut acrylic? Could I possible do it? Or should I just order the light and put my fan/light combo just outside the shower?

There must be other manufacturers of these type enclosures, but the only one I could think of was American Standard and they don't have anything similar. In actuality I would prefer one without the ceiling if I can get one. I am just at a loss as to where to look.

Here's the kicker, I've got to let the plumber know by tomorrow whether I want the light or not. They've got to order right away so it'll be here in 2-3 weeks when it will be put in. Here's a picture of the unit with my arrow showing where the light is and where my fan/light would go.

Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Karl

[Matt Warfield]

Karl,

I suspect a rotozip would work fine for cutting out the light opening. I've drilled a few acrylic shower enclosures for water pipes with a standard hole saw without any tearout or fracturing. Just let the bit do the work. If you put pressure on a hole saw, it will fracture the backside in acrylic.

But then, it's not my $2200 so it's easy for me to suspect it would work! :eek:

Matt

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Karl......I agree with Matt. Most plastics can be cut with a hole saw. Just don't use too much pressure...let the bit do the work and don't use too much speed....too high a speed will sometimes melt plastic. I don't know what the build codes in you area will allow but you might want to check before installing the fan and light in the shower. Good luck with your decision! You seem to be making great progress on your new home!

[Keith Outten]

Karl,

You can use a jig saw with a very fine tooth blade to cut acrylic. A blade for cutting metal would work well. You can aslo cut acrylic with a rotozip or small trim router but the bit should probably be a spiral downcut bit. You can grind the hole using your dremel tool using the small grinding disks. Whatever means you select, use a very slow feed and avoid catching the bit or blade on the material, a catch can cause the acrylic to fracture.

Good Luck!

[Bill Lewis]

Karl, I hate to be one to break the bad news to you, but code will probably not allow your fan/light combo to be installed in the shower.

I am currently in the process of building a shower enclosure (full tile) in the basement, I am putting recess can lights in the shower, but I am limited to a 40W bulb, and wet location rated trim plate/cover. You could probably go this route too. It's pretty inexpensive, $10 for the can, and less than $10 for the trim.

[Steve Ash]

Karl,
If it were me I would put the fan/light combo just outside the shower, but that's just me...electricity near water scares me... here in Michigan according to my electrician son you can put the light in the shower and meet code as long as you use a wet location trim ring, have your contractor verify your local codes.

[Art Mulder]

Karl,

My in-laws live in a retirement building in Ontario. The building has a few guest rooms where my family has stayed on occaision while visiting. The bathroom in these guest rooms has a wheel chair accessible shower that is much like the one in your photo.

It *does* have a light in it, but it is a fairly dim light, which makes me wonder if Ontario has a similar code to what Bill mentions.

I honestly don't remember where the fan is located, but I don't *think* that it is in the stall.

Consider this, Karl, wouldn't a fan located right in the shower stall make for a chilly shower? The fan is going to be exhausting all that lovely warm air, and chilly air is going to rush into the stall to replace it. I really don't think I would want a fan right in the shower stall.

And another suggestion - in that photo above you've got the shower fixture pointing towards the door. That seems odd to me. Oh, I see there are two fixtures, but still, I'd put both of them on the side walls.

Hope this is some help.

[Karl Laustrup]

Thanks to all for your suggestions and insight.

One thing I had not even thought of was "code". The old installation kind of straddled the shower curtain. It was part in and part out of the tub/shower area. The fan was purchased from a reputable HVAC dealer and they also did the installation. They were going to put it directly over the tub, but ceiling structure mandated it be moved to the area above the shower curtain. Our old tub/shower was not totally enclosed nor will the new shower.

I think my first call tomorrow will be to the HVAC people and see if the Panasonic units are made to be installed like I want. If not then that's the end of the story.

If they are designed for that type application then I shall pursue trying to get it done. Thanks to all for the suggestions on cutting and the dangers involved.

I may even mount the fan/light just out side the shower, but not until I've ruled out mounting it in the shower.

I was hoping someone would give me some other options as to shower stalls other than Kohler and American Standard though. Any ideas?

Thanks again and I'll include the outcome in one of my updates. Monday they start framing. YIPPEE!!

Karl

[Jim DeLaney]

Karl,
I installed a Kohler Sterling® shower kit in my last house, and easily cut the hole for the faucet set using a 'regular' Starrett hole saw. No problems whatsoever.

BTW, if you haven't already picked out the faucet(s) for the tub/shower, I'd highly recommend your getting one of the new(er) temperature compensating valve sets. They're great for 'anti-scald' protection. Code in some places - but not all - requires them.

[Karl Laustrup]

Karl,
I installed a Kohler Sterling® shower kit in my last house, and easily cut the hole for the faucet set using a 'regular' Starrett hole saw. No problems whatsoever.

BTW, if you haven't already picked out the faucet(s) for the tub/shower, I'd highly recommend your getting one of the new(er) temperature compensating valve sets. They're great for 'anti-scald' protection. Code in some places - but not all - requires them.

Thanks for the info about cutting the acrylic Jim.

We had one installed when we re-did our bath in 98 and had a Moen temp compenstating valve. New will be the same.

Karl

[Art Mulder]

I was hoping someone would give me some other options as to shower stalls other than Kohler and American Standard though. Any ideas?

Karl,

My Master bath shower is a custom unit. I found a fellow in my church who did cultured marble showers. There is probably a place like that in every medium-sized town. Cultured marble is really just sheets of fiberglass - my guess is that they are about 3/8" thick. He came buy and made a template from the floor, then back in the shop his colleague cast the base. The walls and ceiling are just cut from sheets of the stuff.

Our unit came out to 48x30". Every morning when I step into it, I love it. I really like that room. 48x36 would be better, but that was all the space we had in our bath.

And Yes, this unit does still have a fair sized lip on it. But you might check around, as I expect that they can make the lip smaller if desired.

Now, lets see if I figured out this graphic-upload thingy.

...art

[Karl Laustrup]

Thanks for the pics Art. One of the things I'm going to do today is check into the possible use of tile for the shower. I figure it's probably more but if within reason it could be an option.

What I'd really like is Corian or one of the knock offs using the same formula as DuPont, but the prices on that are astronomical.

I inquired about having our master bath shower done in it. Just the floor was going to be around 5k. :eek: Unfortunately, ready made pans don't exist for our master shower. It's going to be 48"x60", so the whole shower will be in tile now.

Karl

[Bill Lewis]

Karl,
I was ggoing to suggest that you might consider tile. We too looked at shower enclosures for the basement bath, and for the money we decided to build a custom tile shower. Of course we're also doing 100% of the work: framing, plumbing, tile, electrical, and drywall.

You could make the whole bath floor a custom tiled shower pan. That way you can minimize or eliminate the curbing for the shower. It would allow the highest level of accessibility. With tile, you can also build seating, and place grab-bars where they are needed.

For that matter, the whole bath area ought to have blocking in the walls around the perimeter for grab bars to be installed later.

As of this past weekend I finally got all of the backer board up in the shower. I also picked up the materials for the cement shower pan. I'll probably be doing that this Friday. I've been thinking about starting a thread on this project, but I wasn't sure anyone would be that interested. I have been taking pictures along the way.

[Rob Russell]

We have an Aker acrylic shower stall in our addition. I put a light in it. The contractor cut it for me - believe he just used an appropriately-sized hole saw. One thing that made the installation a lot easier was his suggestion of using an "old work" can. The clips hold the can in place securely and it was a snap to install.

You do need a wet location rated trim ring.

[Ken Garlock]

Karl, unless you are a rare exception, and generate enough steam to satisfy Casey Jones, don't worry about the exhaust fan in the shower ceiling.:(

When I was cleaning out my Father's belongings after the funeral, I had occasion to stay over night in an apartment at the Ohio Masonic Home. Every apartment has the handicapped show setup. I found that the exhaust fan was mounted in the middle of the bathroom, it did more than an adequate job on keeping the room clear of steam. The mirror didn't steam up.

Here at home, I have a standard shower stall that is wide enough to accommodate a built-in seat. I never use the exhaust fan, but rather the Energy Recovery System fan. I does a good job, and never has allowed the window to steam up. And, it doesn't exhaust huge amounts of warm/cool air that I have just paid for via the HVAC system.

So my recommendation is to mount the exhaust fan just outside the the shower stall, and put an eyeball light fixture beside it that is aimed into the shower. :cool:

That acrylic show will outlast you if you don't mess with it.:)

[Steve Ash]

You do need a wet location rated trim ring.

Well Bob, I'm not sure of your qualifications as an electrician but here is the section in the National electric code book 2002 which is the law right now, the only way it can be superceded is by state law.
They can only improve upon the law for safety of individuals.

Section 410.4 (A) states Wet and Damp Locations. Luminaries (fixtures) installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaries (fixtures) installed in wet locations shall be marked, "Suitable for Wet Locations." All luminaries (fixtures) installed in damp locations shal be marked, "Suitable for Wet Locations" or "Suitable for Damp Locations."

A can light is not suitable for wet or damp locations, unless wet location trim ring is installed.

Not to try to prove you wrong, but the safety of individuals is the most important.

[Wes Bischel]

Karl,

Check with your local code officials - when we did our bathroom the fan/light had to be ground-fault protected if it was with-in three feet of the tub/shower no matter the fixture type. Surprised the contractor, that's for sure!:rolleyes: Also, the anti-scald protection faucet was code as well.

Bill's thinking on the whole bath plan is very sound when considering universal access. It allows freedom of movement without concern for moisture problems. Also, along with the grab bars shown in the enclosure, a seating area is smart as well. Another thing to consider is a grab bar angled and lower - more for help back up if something is dropped and heaven forbid, a fall.

More than you wanted, but I couldn't resist adding another 5 cents worth!:rolleyes:

Wes

[Howard Norman]

Karl, I think you are wise in checking on tile for the shower. I have had Acrylic showers in the past and frankly I don't like them. We never found a way to clean them where the surface didn't degrade over a few years. I now have cultured marble and find it far superior to Acrylic. The next one will be tile, like I had 40 years ago.

Howard

[Karl Laustrup]

First I would like to thank all of you for your help with this matter. We found out today that the factory doesn't put the light in the shower anymore. It's up to the installer to cut and install a light. OK. As many have said here, it must not be that big a deal to cut acrylic

I have pretty much resigned myself to mounting the fan/light fixtures just outside the showers in both baths. I will mount the appropriate lighting fixtures in the ceiling in each shower. And not the $300 one that Kohler sells. At least I hope I can find less expensive ones.

I did go to the Panasonic web site to see if any of their fan/light combos can be used in a shower. They really didn't give much info about that type of situation. I'm sure I could find out more if I had more time. However, as you that have been following my home building threads know, this thing is on the fast track. They need the shower module here in two weeks. Doesn't give enough time for research.

Thanks again for all the suggestions etc. and even what code calls for.
I'll let you all know how the thing comes out.

Karl

[Rob Russell]

Well Bob, I'm not sure of your qualifications as an electrician but here is the section in the National electric code book 2002 which is the law right now, the only way it can be superceded is by state law.
They can only improve upon the law for safety of individuals.

Section 410.4 (A) states Wet and Damp Locations. Luminaries (fixtures) installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaries (fixtures) installed in wet locations shall be marked, "Suitable for Wet Locations." All luminaries (fixtures) installed in damp locations shal be marked, "Suitable for Wet Locations" or "Suitable for Damp Locations."

A can light is not suitable for wet or damp locations, unless wet location trim ring is installed.

Not to try to prove you wrong, but the safety of individuals is the most important.

Steve,

A couple of things:
- first, I really do prefer Rob - that's why my profile isn't "Bob Russell"
- second, I am just an experienced homeowner electrician
- third, the can isn't in the wet location - the trim ring is. Either way, our AHJ looked at it and approved it.

Rob

[Rob Russell]

I have pretty much resigned myself to mounting the fan/light fixtures just outside the showers in both baths. I will mount the appropriate lighting fixtures in the ceiling in each shower. And not the $300 one that Kohler sells. At least I hope I can find less expensive ones.

I did go to the Panasonic web site to see if any of their fan/light combos can be used in a shower. They really didn't give much info about that type of situation. I'm sure I could find out more if I had more time. However, as you that have been following my home building threads know, this thing is on the fast track. They need the shower module here in two weeks. Doesn't give enough time for research.

Thanks again for all the suggestions etc. and even what code calls for.
I'll let you all know how the thing comes out.

Karl

I agree with the comments that you don't need the fan in the shower. Frankly, that would make for a draft going through the shower while you were in it and that could be a bit unpleasant.

I used Fantech fans in our addition's bathroom and spa room - Fantech Fans (http://www.fantech.net/bathroom.htm). They are quiet and do a good job.

Rob

[Steve Ash]

Steve,

A couple of things:
- first, I really do prefer Rob - that's why my profile isn't "Bob Russell"
- second, I am just an experienced homeowner electrician
- third, the can isn't in the wet location - the trim ring is. Either way, our AHJ looked at it and approved it.

Rob

Rob, my apologies for making the mistake of calling you Bob.

Karl was asking about putting the fixture in the acrylic shower which is a wet location....and would require a wet location trim ring according to the NEC 2002 book.

[Bill Lewis]

We too used a Fantech fan in the master bath. We also bought one for the current basement bathroom rpoject. We got it for three reasons:
1. CFM, I plan on putting a steam generator unit in this shower and we need the CFM for it.
2. We have a rather long duct run to exhaust, no other fan could push the air that far. I could have shortened the run significantly by running it out under the front porch, but that area doesn't get much air circulation.
3. It's quiet! My pet peeve is a noisy bath fan.

You could say I am a big "fan" of these units.