jointers:decisions,decisions,decisions

[fred woltersdorf]

i'm doing research to buy an 8" jointer.i've narrowed it down these three,the bridgewood bw-8j8@$945,yorkcraft yc-8j8@$649, and the grizzly g0490@$750,$839 delivered.i think i'm leaning towards the grizzly,but i would like to hear comments from users of these machines.thanks fred

[Jim Becker]

I believe that the Griz G490 is a new machine and not yet in folk's hands.

[Matt Meiser]

I have the Yorkcraft and am very happy with it. Pluses include the mobile base which is nice to have even though mine always stays in the same spot. Negatives are the long fence tube and the lack of a magnetic switch. The tube wasn't a problem for me, and I intend to put a mag switch on mine "someday".

I doubt you can go wrong with any of the models you mentioned as both vendors have excellent customer service reputations.

[Michael Disorbo]

I to am in the search of a new jointer. I order the G0490 from Grizzly on Friday. They are expected in the later part of February. I downloaded the manual from Grizzly as well as the Delta DJ20. These two machines look to be the same with a few exception. The Grizzly has a on/off switch located above the fence, a larger motor, and a built in moblie base and a pricetag which is half of the Delta. They are both made in China. The Yorkcraft is a nice machine and has a nice fence system. The only bad part is the rack a pinion fence system extends a bit from the back of the machine and you could not store it up against the wall. The Yorkcraft is on backorder until the middle of February. I came to the conclusion that the bed design of the Grizzly 490, the longer infeed table, the 3 horsepower motor and the built in mobile base was the way to go. I have never looked into the Bridgewood since the price was way to much for what you are getting. Remember, they are all imports. If you decide to go with the Grizzly or Yorkcraft, there backorder list is getting long and and you may have to wait until their next shipment.

Just my .02 cents, good luck in your choice!!

Michael

[Brian Hale]

Something to keep in mind is that Wilke will do an inspection on that 8" Bridgewood before it ships and the motor is a USA Baldor or Marathon.

As for customer service, they're both equal, excellent!

Brian :)

[Dick Latshaw]

I am very pleased with my Bridgewood 8" with its Baldor motor. The fit and finish are execellent, with all holes lining up perfectly. The infeed and outfeed tables are dead flat according to my Lee Valley 55" straight edge, and the machining is perfect with not a swirl visible. The business part of the machine came in a heavy wood crate sheathed in plywood. There was a delay in shipping my machine (waiting on a Byrd cutter head) and my credit card was not charged until the machine shipped (something I can't say about some other folks I've done business with lately). I would not hesitate to order from Wilke again.

[John Stevens]

...Wilke will do an inspection on that 8" Bridgewood before it ships...

As for customer service, they're both equal, excellent!

Brian, I think Wilke inspects the 12" and bigger jointers, but not the 8" or 6". If they inspected my 8" jointer, it sure didn't make a difference. I bought a brand-new 8" Bridgewood from Wilke last August, and paid for Wilke to install a Byrd Shelix head. The jointer needed every adjustment possible before it would work right:

The arbor of the Shelix head wasn't aligned with either the infeed or outfeed table, so I had to shim one side.
The infeed and outfeed tables were tilted (i.e., outfeed was higher on the operator side, lower on the fence side) so I had to shim the outfeed table to correct that.
The tables sagged so badly that I had to adjust both the infeed and outfeed gibs and add shims to the outfeed table to get it level with the infeed table. The manual gives incorrect instructions on how to adjust the gibs. The only way I found out how to adjust the gibs properly was when I ran across a couple of FWW articles on how to troubleshoot a jointer.
The outfeed table already had a shim in it from the factory, but the shim was inadequate to level the table. Nice.As for the customer service, I called Wilke and asked to speak to someone for tech help early on, when I thought the only problem was the sagging tables. I was patched through to Tom, the salesman who sold me the machine. He brushed me off by telling me to go back and read the manual again. After that, I didn't even bother calling for tech help when I later discovered the tables were tilted and the arbor was misaligned.

The jointer works great now, but only after several hours of fiddling over three weekends. That is exactly what I was trying to avoid in spending a little more money for the Bridgewood instead of a less expensive machine such as a Griz or Yorkie, etc. The bright side of this story is that now I know how to rehab a jointer, and if my Bridgewood goes out of adjustment in the future, I'll have no problem getting it back in spec. But I would definitely not buy Bridgewood machinery again, nor would I buy from Wilke.

[fred woltersdorf]

thanks john,that is the kind of info that i'm looking for.probably go with the grizzly now.

[Paul Canaris]

Good past experience with Wilke

[Brian Hale]

John, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Wilke. I guess every company has at least one unhappy customer.

FWIW, Jim and Curtis are the folks who know the machines inside and out. They've been selling/troubleshooting/inspecting them for ~27 years now (longer than Griz ?). It's a shame you elected to not to talk with one of the tech guys as I'm sure you'd have a very different opinion of Wilke. A salesman is just that, a salesman, not tech/customer support.

Personally, i own a BW10LTS cabinet saw, BW-15P 15" planer, BW 002A 2hp DC, MS-10 2HP Mortiser, 6x89 Wide belt sander, 6" jointer and the little belt/disc combo sander. No complaints with any of them.

Fred, If you go with the Griz, I'm sure you'll be pleased, no doubt. Don't let one persons bad experience sway you either way. If you search the web you'll find plenty of complaints about each of the companies. In fact, if you search SMC, you'll find many many more complaints about Griz than any other company. Why? Because they sell more than most any other company so the odds favor it. More often than not, part of the problem is that the company wasn't given the chance to resolve the issue.

I'm absolutely positive that if Mr. Wilke had heard about the problems John had, John would be singing a different tune.

Best of luck with your decision!

Brian :)

[Rob Blaustein]

I just took the G0490 plunge. I hope the quality is as good as the G0586 jointer (I think those are made in a different factory) and that those of us who went for it will not be "beta testers." Oddly, what tipped my hand was the built in base--I'm too lazy to put one together and I just like the idea of an integral base. Fewer things to scrape my ankles on in my small shop. Not sure how important the whole parallelogram thing is--seems like most people just leave it set at 1/32" all the time.

[John Stevens]

It's a shame you elected to not to talk with one of the tech guys as I'm sure you'd have a very different opinion of Wilke. [snip]


Brian, perhaps I wasn't clear, but when I called Wilke and asked the receptionist to speak to tech support, she patched my call through to the salesman, Tom. When I explained the nature of my problem to Tom, he didn't say that questions like that were for another department. The impression I got was that the salesman and the "tech support department" were one and the same. If you hadn't mentioned "Jim and Curtis," I would still have no reason to believe that Wilke has a bona fide tech support department. And given the fact that Wilke installed a Shelix head in my jointer but didn't check whether it was aligned with the tables, I don't have much confidence in their tech support.



I'm absolutely positive that if Mr. Wilke had heard about the problems John had, John would be singing a different tune.


I'll ask this in earnest: have you dealt personally with Mr. Wilke for problems with a $1,600 sale? If so, what do you think he'd have been willing to do to compensate me for the time I spent in excess of normal, reasonable setup time?

[Brian Hale]

Yes John, i can understand your not having much confidence in their tech support given the quality of the work they performed on your jointer. I'd most likely feel the same. I believe the biggest issue is that the Wilke family (it's a family owned business) wasn't (hasn't) made aware of the situation.

If i spent $1600.00 for a machine and it wasn't in working order, I'd make sure they knew all about it.

I've had 2 minor issues with the machines I've bought from them. First, the fence for my CS was welded incorrectly, so that i had to tilt it more than i should to get it perpendicular to the table. They gave me a new one and told me to keep the bad one. Second was the motor on the mortiser would get warm after about 30 minutes of running. I discussed this with Curtis at the Baltimore WW show and he said he'd send me another one or i could bring it out to them for replacement. When i asked what he thought the problem was, he pointed to the starter and said if i wanted, i could take it apart and check the contacts. Either way, both problems were solved with minimal effort on my part.

As for what i think they would/would have done for you, i can't say for sure but based on my experiences and others that I've read about they'd do whatever they could to make it right. It may be too late for them to do anything for you at this point but in all fairness to them, you should make them aware of it, if for no other reason than for them to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else. They're just regular folks trying to make a living like you and me and we all want to do the right thing.

Brian :)

[Scott Coffelt]

I think in general you will be happy with any choice, with any purchase there is a chance that you will have to call tech support or customer service. My history tells me that most likely it will be a positive experience, but the opposite can also happen. Choose the one you want based on your gut.

I myself will be buying the G0490 if I can get it to fit in my small shop (long story) or it will be the G0586. I prefer the G0490.

[Michael Disorbo]

I did a lot of research over the past month or two, not only on the internet, but to folks who own them. Grizzly has been around for 23 years and I must say, they have built a nice business. In the beginning, things were so so, but you have to remember they are only distributors, not the makes of these machines, It is my understanding that mostly if not all the 6" or 8" jointers are made in China or Tiawan. The favorite of many woodworkers is the Delta DJ 20 which is made in China. It is also my understanding there are only a few factories in China and Tiawan who make these jointers. So we have to depend on the folks who sell them in this country to make things right.

I contacted Wilke and spoke to Curtis. The impression he gave me was they are backordered till Feb 14 so if I want one I better hurry and order. When I talked to Grizzly, I spent almost a half an hour with them. I even PM papa Grizz to confirm a question I had and his response was super fast. Thats what I like and I am sure the G0490 is a clone of the Delta DJ20, probably made at the same plant.

Anyway, I think they are all basically all the same quality and I am sure like anything else you get some good ones and you get bad ones as well. China and Tiawan are whipping our butts when in comes to manufacturing and it is a real shame.



Good Luck and let us know what you get and how you like it!

Michael

[Michael Disorbo]

Rob,

Tried to PM you but your mail box is stuffed and it won't let me until you do some cleaning!!!

Michael

[Allen Bookout]

I am going with (and have ordered) a parallelogram design. I have a dovetail way one now that required shimming. To my way of thinking that is a Mickey Mouse way to have to adjust a jointer. The parallelogram system has built in adjustments by way of eccentric bushings under each table.

[Rob Blaustein]

Rob,

Tried to PM you but your mail box is stuffed and it won't let me until you do some cleaning!!!

Michael

Sorry Michael, you should be able to PM me now. Rob

[Rob Blaustein]

I am going with (and have ordered) a parallelogram design. I have a dovetail way one now that required shimming. To my way of thinking that is a Mickey Mouse way to have to adjust a jointer. The parallelogram system has built in adjustments by way of eccentric bushings under each table.
Well, don't keep us in suspense--which one did you get? You may have posted on it, but I can't recall.

Edit: OK, never mind, I just saw your post where you mentioned that you ordered the G0490.

[Allen Bookout]

Rob,

That was good research. Yes, the GO490 like you. It seemed to me that the price was just too good to pass up.

Allen

[Jeff Horton]

Last night I was looking through a new Fine Woodworking special edition and saw a short reveiw on the new 0490. The said a lot of nice things about it, but it was not an indepth reveiw.

I too am about to but and really undecided but starting to lean toward it too.

[Michael Disorbo]

Did they actually review the machine as in they had one and tried it out? It is my understanding that even Grizzly does not have one yet. According to Muncy they do not even have on in the showroom yet. I think us folks who are on the list to receive one at the end of February will be the first to review this machine but I may be wrong. I think some magazine reviewed the G0586 and the G0500.

Michael

[Jeff Horton]

They had one. Talked about damage from shipping.

[Michael Disorbo]

Jeff,

What issue was it in? I looked for the G0490 in all the mags and never saw anything pertaining to the 490. Can you tell me a little more of what was said? Has anyone else read this review?

Thanks,

Michael

[John Stevens]

Just a quick update, take it for what it’s worth.
<O:p</O:p
Somebody here must have told Wilke Machinery about this thread, because today at work I received a call from “Jim” in the tech department. He told me that “Kurt Wilke” had told him to call me about the problem with my jointer. We talked for about ten minutes. Here are the points I think would be most important to prospective buyers who read my earlier account:

Jim says Wilke Machinery inspects all of the jointers before shipping, even the 8” models. He doesn’t know how/why mine got through in the condition it’s in.<O:p</O:p
Jim offered to have Wilke Machinery inspect the jointer and replace it if the tables and arbor could not be aligned without shims. It would have been my responsibility to get the 400lb jointer out of my basement, back to Wilke Machinery, and then back into my basement. If that had been their stated policy at the time of the sale, I would have tried my best to take them up on it. At this point I declined the offer, because (a) I don’t have anyone who I can ask to help me carry the jointer out of my basement and into my pickup; and (b) it’s not worth it to hire someone to take care of moving and shipping the jointer, because I’ve already got the thing working, albeit with shims inserted. However, I assume that Wilke Machinery doesn’t make a lot of money on a $1,600 sale, so under the circumstances I consider this to have been a fair offer on their part.
Jim then offered to send me, free of charge, replacement blades for my Shelix head, which I accepted. By my reckoning, a full set of blades for the 8” cutterhead runs somewhere around $140, which comes out to about $15/hour for my time spent troubleshooting and shimming the jointer. If Bridgewood's owner's manual had given all the instructions necessary to adjust the arbor and tables, I probably could have done the job in little more than one hour, so this deal might have been a steal for me. But like I said before, I assume that Wilke Machinery doesn’t make a lot of money on a $1,600 sale, so under the circumstances I consider this to have been a generous offer on their part.Bottom line: Any time I spend a fair chunk of money on complex goods or services, I make an allowance that there will be a problem or two that will have to be ironed out. That’s why I always try to deal with sellers who are willing to work with me as a buyer. Lee Valley and Festool (especially independent sales agent Bob Marino) are sellers who've earned my loyalty in this regard. I had my doubts before, but now I believe Wilke Machinery is willing to work with its buyers to try to achieve a fair result.

[Jeff Horton]

Jeff,

What issue was it in? I looked for the G0490 in all the mags and never saw anything pertaining to the 490. Can you tell me a little more of what was said?

I think this was a special issue on tools, if I remember right. It was on the newstand last night at the local BORG. It said something about the jointer not getting there in time for some big review of jointers? It was just a few paragraphs, nothing in depth and I just skimmed it. Don't remember details but it was favorable and it made me decide to go ahead and order one. But I have a lead on a used jointer, so I am going to hold off doing anything till I check it out.

[Mark Rios]

I think this was a special issue on tools, if I remember right. It was on the newstand last night at the local BORG. It said something about the jointer not getting there in time for some big review of jointers? It was just a few paragraphs, nothing in depth and I just skimmed it. Don't remember details but it was favorable and it made me decide to go ahead and order one. But I have a lead on a used jointer, so I am going to hold off doing anything till I check it out.

I was just in my BORG today and I looked through the magazines and I saw a FWW 25th Special Anniversary Issue. I looked through it and saw a 1 page review for a Grizzly 8" jointer but it was for the G0586; It wasn't the G0490. They said the exact same thing you said, that they hadn't got it in time for the previous review. The rest of your comments in your previous post were the same (or very close) as the article I read. Sounds like the same article but for the G0586.

[Jeff Horton]

Your probably right, but I thought it was the G0490? I just remember the photo being the G0490, headed that way after while and will look again. Wouldn't be the first time I made a mistake.

[Mark Rios]

Well, it could be two different articles though too. If someone was able to get a 586 then someone could have also gotten a 490. I'm really looking forward to seeing more info about that 490. Let us know what you find.