Veritas Box-Maker’s Plow Plane

[Peter Schussheim]

This looks like a new offering from Veritas (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/plow/115430-veritas-right-hand-box-makers-plow-plane?item=05P6701), based on the Record 43 design if I am correct. Very happy to see that Veritas is continuing to not only fill demand of their existing line-up, is introducing new models as well.

Now with that said, I am not sure what the pros/cons of this plow plane are compared with their "Small Plow Plane". Perhaps if Mr. Rob Lee sees this thread he could add his two cents.

https://assets.leevalley.com/Size4/10121/05P6701-u-0629.jpg

https://williammarplesandsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/bc03e9dc313ed7b26397c6d32ee513c7.jpeg

[Rob Luter]

I’m curious as well. I’m also curious as to why the fence rods extend inboard where they will interfere with clamping rather than outboard over open space like the record product. This is one gripe I have with my small plow. This is not the case with their combination plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Now with that said, I am not sure what the pros/cons of this plow plane are compared with their "Small Plow Plane".


I’m curious as well. I’m also curious as to why the fence rods extend inboard where they will interfere with clamping rather than outboard over open space like the record product. This is one gripe I have with my small plow. This is not the case with their combination plane.

A smaller plane is often easier to use on smaller work. This has been my experience making different sizes of boxes.

Two things come to mind on the rods positioning. First this may have been seen as more comfortable for the user. Second is it may have helped to keep the price down by reducing the machining costs.

One big pro on this one is the price is $100 less than the small plow.

Having the rods inboard is something often used with my plow planes to make them more comfortable when using. There are many ways to steady the work when working with fenced planes.

jtk

[Clifford McGuire]

I’m curious as well. I’m also curious as to why the fence rods extend inboard where they will interfere with clamping rather than outboard over open space like the record product. This is one gripe I have with my small plow. This is not the case with their combination plane.

Yes, the Record lets you move the rods in or out...user's preference.

I like to move them in, otherwise the curved rail (where my left hand goes) would be quite uncomfortable.

But YMMV.

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[Graham Haydon]

Lovely to see this useful little plough get a new lease of life. I think Record DNA is strong within all the Veritas plough/combi planes.

If those bars are fixed like that it would be a shame. I often work small pieces on edge in the vice. I wouldn't be able to do that with this version.

[Jim Koepke]

Lovely to see this useful little plough get a new lease of life. I think Record DNA is strong within all the Veritas plough/combi planes.

If those bars are fixed like that it would be a shame. I often work small pieces on edge in the vice. I wouldn't be able to do that with this version.

It looks like the are held in by screws into the end of the bars. It likely wouldn't be too difficult to make a pair of short rods.

jtk

[Graham Haydon]

Agreed. Luckily we have access to the Record, Rapier and Marples versions for not much in the UK.

[Trevor Wentzel]

I have the rapier 43. Identical to the record version.
This looks great.
I have looked at the beading blades in the past to extend it's functionality, but I'm not really sure
I'd use them all that much.
I hope the next plane is dedicated T&G plane, not unlike the remake of the no. 48 from LN.

[Derek Cohen]

Note that the Veritas Small Plow blades can be used in the Record/Rapier #043.

I have the Record #043, and will take inspiration from the Veritas version to add a screw to the lever cap, as Veritas have done. The damn thing always falls out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Lee]

This looks like a new offering from Veritas (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/plow/115430-veritas-right-hand-box-makers-plow-plane?item=05P6701), based on the Record 43 design if I am correct. Very happy to see that Veritas is continuing to not only fill demand of their existing line-up, is introducing new models as well.

Now with that said, I am not sure what the pros/cons of this plow plane are compared with their "Small Plow Plane". Perhaps if Mr. Rob Lee sees this thread he could add his two cents.


Hi Peter -

Just a smaller (less expensive) version of the plow, for those who do smaller work - hence the invented "Box Maker's" plane name.

The more focused grip (is that the right way to say it? Perhaps "compact stance"?) seems to work better for me on smaller pieces. Then too - I would rarely plow anything larger than 1/4" in width. I could see this plane staying set-up as a beading plane full-time.

It's just another choice.... and maybe one that is less daunting for an newer user!

Cheers -

Rob

[Rob Lee]

I’m curious as well. I’m also curious as to why the fence rods extend inboard where they will interfere with clamping rather than outboard over open space like the record product. This is one gripe I have with my small plow. This is not the case with their combination plane.

Hi Rob -

We definitely chose grip comfort over clamping clearance here. Also having rods fixed at the fence end has clear manufacturing (and cost!) advantages as well as making the plane easier to set up.... Jim had it all correct!

Cheers -

Rob

[Peter Schussheim]

Hi Peter -

Just a smaller (less expensive) version of the plow, for those who do smaller work - hence the invented "Box Maker's" plane name.

The more focused grip (is that the right way to say it? Perhaps "compact stance"?) seems to work better for me on smaller pieces. Then too - I would rarely plow anything larger than 1/4" in width. I could see this plane staying set-up as a beading plane full-time.

It's just another choice.... and maybe one that is less daunting for an newer user!

Cheers -

Rob

Thank you Rob

[William Fretwell]

Securing the rods with hex screws gives some serious leverage, they should stay tight, unlike the brass thumb screws on the combination plane. I’ve been trying to get a flat milled on my rods but machine shops want a lot just to set up the tooling to do it.

[John Keeton]

I’m not even sure I would have a use for this plane, but it is so well done and just looks so functional I may “need” one for those reasons alone!!:D

[Jim Koepke]

I’m not even sure I would have a use for this plane, but it is so well done and just looks so functional I may “need” one for those reasons alone!!:D

Similar feelings are tempting me to pull the trigger on one of these.

jtk

[john zulu]

Been waiting for a long time for the next planes from Veritas.

[Jim R Edwards]

Very nice plane. I think it would be cool to make a limited edition in the Record blue color.

[Trevor Wentzel]

Hi Peter -

Just a smaller (less expensive) version of the plow....
...It's just another choice.... and maybe one that is less daunting for an newer user!

Cheers -

Rob

This is exactly why I picked up the record 43 when I was starting out. I would have been over the moon if this had been available when I bought my plow plane.
One question, I have always started my grooves at the far end of the cut and worked back toward myself. I noticed in the video, the cut is started at the closer side of the board. Is there a reason I'm unaware of?

[Chuck Hill]

I have a RH Record and a Rapier, so the LH Veritas is coming home with me today.

[Gary Herrmann]

I already have a plow plane. I don't need it. But it sure is cute.

Next up - the combination plane.

[Ed Mitchell]

These planes are at a great price point. If you think about buying a drawer-bottom plane, these become quite an attractive option. They're less expensive by far than any commercial offering of which I'm aware, so you could save a lot of money just by purchasing these as dedicated grooving planes/drawer-bottom planes, but of course if needed, these are far more versatile.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Luban actually came up with an interesting take on the record 43 plow. Cast stainless steel and the skate is tapped to accept a kerfing blade. I kind of wish that veritas would add a kerfing blade feature to there tool lineup...

[David Carroll]

Note that the Veritas Small Plow blades can be used in the Record/Rapier #043.

I have the Record #043, and will take inspiration from the Veritas version to add a screw to the lever cap, as Veritas have done. The damn thing always falls out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

That is a great idea! I'll do the same.

DC

[Jim Koepke]

Luban actually came up with an interesting take on the record 43 plow.

Sounds good until looking deeper into it:

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The cost with shipping is the same as the Veritas. The Veritas comes with one blade and includes shipping. The Luban comes with three blades.

The Veritas can use small beading blades. The Luban can likely use small beading blades but they don't appear to be listed.

The Luban has a saw blade holder.

jtk

[John Northowl]

Does anyone have this plane?
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This is not normal right? On mine, the front rod is tight, but the rear rod has a gap so large you could drive a truck through it. The loose rod rattles and the fence is easily out of square. Tell me im not crazy and thats not correct?

[Jim Koepke]

Does anyone have this plane?
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This is not normal right? On mine, the front rod is tight, but the rear rod has a gap so large you could drive a truck through it. The loose rod rattles and the fence is easily out of square. Tell me im not crazy and thats not correct?

That may not be normal. Have you tried turning the fence unit upside down to determine if the rod is too small or the hole is too big?

jtk

[John Northowl]

Thank for the reply Jim. I did try just that. And it would seem it is the hole that is too big. I reached out to customer service as the store didnt seem to know if that amount of slop was on purpose or not.


https://youtube.com/shorts/36PXQiEWNDA?feature=share

[Derek Cohen]

Inspired by the Veritas version, I modded the Record #043 blade clamp with a bolt into the body. No more will it fall out and threaten to get lost!!

https://i.postimg.cc/q0b4MJvs/1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Close up of the bolt position. This uses a M4 thread, tapped into the body. The clamp received a corresponding 5mm hole. The positioning is further forward than I would have preferred, however there was more metal there.

https://i.postimg.cc/SkH4Cg8j/2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The downside of this position is less movement at the front of the clamp. The blade (just) slides in and is tighten firmly at the rear.

Seen from the other side. Just managed to save the "Record" inscription.

https://i.postimg.cc/LmfpTjBD/3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Lastly, I use the Veritas blades in the #043. This is a 5mm.

https://i.postimg.cc/PTChCgCB/4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bruce Page]

Folks, please refrain from any political comments.

[Kevin Adams]

Curious if anyone else has received this plane yet? I got mine this week and I do see what John references above, there’s quite a bit of play with the rear bar. I did ask customer service if this was by design as it does seem to allow enough movement to where the fence may not be square. Below is the response I received if others are interested.

Perhaps if Rob or someone else sees this, they can shed further light. I’m guessing it is by design to allow the fence to slide easier, but because of the play, it actually causes the fence to get hung up. It’s a relatively small plane, however, so in practice it may not matter. I did not see this addressed in the instructions that came with the plane.

Thank you for your e-mail. I can't say for sure whether it is by design, but I found out that by tightening the front rod first the fence stays parallel to the skate, which is what matters. This was consistent for the four planes I tested so far (including my personal one).

[Chuck Hill]

I just checked my LH version is it the same with a bit of play on the rear rod. It looks like this may be by design.

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

The front rod hole is sized at .3175 +.005", -0.0 .
The rear rod hole is sized at .3375 +.005", -0.0 .

To understand how we arrived there.... a tiny confession is necessary. When we first designed the plane, we thought we could get away with a single rod (the front one). Once we'd made one that way - the fence would rotate too much in use - so we put the second rod in. Its primary function is to stop the fence from rotating - secondary function is to hold the plane skate parallel to the fence. If you tighten the front first - you should be parallel - tightening the rear locks it in place.

Cheers -

Rob
(who expects the single rod prototypes to be valuable collectors items in about 200 years.....)

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[John Keeton]

Rob
(who expects the single rod prototypes to be valuable collectors items in about 200 years.....)

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And, who also OWNS the prototypes!! Rob, they will gain no value with your ownership. You should ship them to me so they will have a chance of gaining value. My great grandkids would appreciate it!

[Kevin Adams]

Thanks, Rob, figured this was by design. The plane works wonderfully btw and is a great compliment to my regular plow plane.

Kevin

[John Northowl]

The front rod hole is sized at .3175 +.005", -0.0 .
The rear rod hole is sized at .3375 +.005", -0.0 .

Thank you for the reply Rob. I dont really understand why making the rear hole larger is of any benefit, being not a machinest, businessman, nor even fully evolved neanderthal mind.

I have never had an issue with the double rodded fences on my: plows, combo, skew rebates, large rebate, or even custom plane fence. etc. so I was very surprised by the change in hole size. (Please no one comment on the excessiveness of owning these planes).

[John Keeton]

I couldn’t resist any longer - mine has been shipped!

[Gary Cunningham]

Mine arrived yesterday. Getting the fence parallel to the skate is not easy. As in it’s rather frustrating.
There is considerable play in the rear fence rod.

A 3/32 ball tip driver is way better than the supplied Allen wrench.

[Jim Koepke]

Mine arrived yesterday. Getting the fence parallel to the skate is not easy. As in it’s rather frustrating.
There is considerable play in the rear fence rod.
A 3/32 ball tip driver is way better than the supplied Allen wrench.


Getting the fence set parallel to the skate has been frustrating folks since fenced planes were first made.

I have made an assortment of wooden gauges for setting my fences:

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They are kept on a shelf with a 1 or a 3 on the end. There is also a 7 that is 7/16" X 7/8". I have other spacers for 1/4". Usually my #50 is set up for 1/4" from the edge with a 1/4" blade.

These make fence set up easy.

I also use this one sometimes:

500264

This is my anti-rack spacer stack for my vises. It has 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 & 1" blades so it can make up steps by 1/8" up to 1-7/8". I also have a 1/16" blade but it isn't strong enough to be in the stack and hold the others in place.

There have been changes to this over the years.

The original is posted here > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743 < there is a link to the upgrade. The upgrade post didn't have thumbnails of the images but clicking on the attachement numbers opened them up.

jtk

[Talbert McMullin]

Received mine yesterday. Works like a charm! Incredibly fine workmanship! Perfect for the small boxes I build.