Spontaneous Combustion - A must see video

[Jim Becker]

Jason of Bourbon Moth Woodworking on the 'Tube does a lot of interesting projects and injects a lot of humor...I really enjoy his channel. This new video from him is a lot more serious and I agree with him that it's a "must see" because it illustrates very clearly why the woodworking community (and anyone else using oily finishing products) need to pay attention to proper disposal of oily rags. He did this as a very organized experiment and was surprised himself at the results. Please watch this in your copious free time. It could help prevent a disaster that doesn't need to happen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gqi2cNCKQY

[Patty Hann]

"...copious free time...."
Copious free time? I'd settle for just free time. :rolleyes:

Couple observations:
1) He would have had his hands rather full if several trash cans/bags combusted at the same time.
2) In all of those containers he was NOT taking the temperature deep inside the pile of debris.
The one that combusted [first] was pretty dang hot deep inside, else it would not have combusted.
It would have been a much more "true to life" experiment if he had used a temperature probe.

Still, it was an impressive display and an always timely warning.
Thanks for posting it.

[Doug Garson]

Wow, thanks for posting.

[Patrick Varley]

Interesting video, and hopefully leads to people adopting safer practices.

That being said, I find the "need" for these videos somewhat irritating. And his comments in the beginning underscore part of the problem. "I've never seen it happen, so I didn't necessarily believe it could."

[Bernie Kopfer]

Thank you Jim for posting this!

[Mel Fulks]

Not the best way to become a nationally known beloved figure and break into show-business.

[Kevin Jenness]

Hey guys, watch this! Hold my beer...

I wonder if this joker's landlord or neighbors have seen this.

[Cameron Wood]

"a lot more serious"

yet I'm not sure if I'm left smarter or more dumb from watching this...

[Patty Hann]

Interesting video, and hopefully leads to people adopting safer practices.

That being said, I find the "need" for these videos somewhat irritating. And his comments in the beginning underscore part of the problem. "I've never seen it happen, so I didn't necessarily believe it could."

Ol' Jason might be great woodworker, but he must have failed high school chemistry (or never took it) ...exothermic reactions.

[Mel Fulks]

Patty, It’s called “copious esthetic”

[Patty Hann]

patty, it’s called “copious esthetic”

xxxx :D xxxxx

[glenn bradley]

Hopefully most of us on here have been at it long enough to know that this is a thing. I have a lidded pail that I half fill with water and throw oily rags into during a process. Later I lay them out to dry and a few days later I toss them. Heat during curing is real folks. Ignore it at your own peril.

[Ken Combs]

Had that talk with my 10th grade shop teacher.

then several years back I was fixing up an old building for my wife and I to open an antique mall. 4900 sqft of mostly old growth pine floor. Mostly as it was built in 1917, but had several repairs from later to to plumbing, hot water heating work. Anyway, way too much for a real refinish so I cleaned and repaired it and was applying a mix of linseed oil, paint thinner and spar varnish. Mopping on with a string mop, then picking up the excess with a dry(er) mop.

Looking good when we broke for lunch. In less than an hour we returned to smoke and smells. A longer lunch and we would have returned to flames.

I knew but just never thought it would happen that fast.

[Warren Lake]

thats learned in the first half an hour in a shop or in a finishing class.

Ive made a point not to put grass clippings that are in the paper bags into the garage. Ive measured them before and photoed the heat gauge just forgot the numbers but at least three times had smoke coming out of them.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Hopefully most of us on here have been at it long enough to know that this is a thing. I have a lidded pail that I half fill with water and throw oily rags into during a process. Later I lay them out to dry and a few days later I toss them. Heat during curing is real folks. Ignore it at your own peril.

Yes, every time this comes up I am always shocked at how few times it’s mentioned to just put the spent rags fully submerged in a pail of water for a few days or more to neutralize them. Then they can be disposed of like anything else.

There is no need to lay rags out to dry, chancing them falling/blowing away if outside, accidentally forgetting about them, having to deal with the smells off gassing...

I did not watch the video to see if submerging in water was recommended, but in commercial shop environments I have worked in, this was the standard operating procedure and you got seriously chewed out if you did not follow it.

[andrew whicker]

I put them in an bucket of water outside 10ft away from building 😂

I'm overly cautious perhaps

[Rick Potter]

As a retired fireman, the one thing that bothered me was the plastic trash cans. I was waiting to see if more than one would light at one time and start melting down and burning before he could get to it. That burning plastic smell would have stuck around for a long time in the shop. Other than that, it was a great learning experience.

Also glad when he removed them all at the end of the test. Well done.

[Frank Pratt]

Nothing wrong with just laying them out flat to air dry. The water bucket works, but is messy. As long as the oil has finished polymerizing, the fire danger is gone. That will happen quite quickly if the rags are laid out or hung out to dry.

[Kevin Jenness]

Yes, every time this comes up I am always shocked at how few times it’s mentioned to just put the spent rags fully submerged in a pail of water for a few days or more to neutralize them. Then they can be disposed of like anything else.

There is no need to lay rags out to dry, chancing them falling/blowing away if outside, accidentally forgetting about them, having to deal with the smells off gassing...

I did not watch the video to see if submerging in water was recommended, but in commercial shop environments I have worked in, this was the standard operating procedure and you got seriously chewed out if you did not follow it.

What happens to the contaminated water?

[Phillip Mitchell]

What happens to the contaminated water?

Pour it into old gallon jugs, or whatever and take it to the landfill at the same time as the old paint, solvents, motor oil, etc, etc

[James Pallas]

This is very real. We were staining trim for a new house outside before installation. There was a brick pallet laying in trash pile. Stood it on edge and hung the used rags in single layer to dry out. Nice sunny warm winter day, maybe 70 F. Rags and pallet went up in smoke. It definitely convinced me that it was real. Steel five gallon buckets of water were the only way after that experience.
Jim

[Edward Weber]

I use oil based finishes all the time, I dispose of them this way.
After the task is done, I ball up the rag in my hand and pull off my nitrile gloves over the rag and tie it in a knot. Then the same with the other hand, no oxygen no ignition. I then throw them in a metal can with metal lid.
I have never had an issue but be careful.

[Ray Newman]

I have an old all metal GI issue ammunition can that I toss the rags into prior to burning.

[Ronald Blue]

Sometimes I'm not sure if the statements like "I have never saw this so I'm not sure it's real" are really just meant to entertain the viewers. With nearly a million subscribers he does well off the Tube. While I have never personally experienced a fire started this I certainly am aware of the potential. I'm with Rick on the plastic garbage cans. Fire and plastic aren't a very good mix. I was thinking the garbage bags by themselves were also not a good idea. Obviously he didn't know that dry chemical fire extinguisher powder is not something you want the breathe. If he had been using metal cans he could have carried them outside without much risk and not bothered with the extinguisher unless absolutely necessary. If it keeps one fire from happening though it's probably worthwhile.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Could someone explain this to me. Combustion is caused by the curing process when the finish /oil reacts with oxygen. When you put oil soaked rags into a bucket of water you remove access to oxygen so no curing and no heat generated. But if the rags are then dumped in the trash and hauled away aren't they going to dry out and start curing again? And now they're even more compressed in the back of the trash truck which raises the danger. They may not combust in your shop but it seems you're pushing the risk down the line. Trash truck fires can be dangerous. Granted, most are caused by lithium batteries or hot embers tossed in trash but isn't a ball of oil soaked rags going to eventually be the equivalent of tossing hot embers? It seems to me that storing rags in water doesn't eliminate the risk, it just delays it.

Cliff

[Cameron Wood]

Pour it into old gallon jugs, or whatever and take it to the landfill at the same time as the old paint, solvents, motor oil, etc, etc

That's gross, & I believe illegal in my state.

[Phillip Mitchell]

That's gross, & I believe illegal in my state.

? What do you do with old / used solvent, paint, etc? Does your local landfill not have designated days and areas that they collect such things to prevent people from just mixing them in the normal household trash, or worse, just pouring them out outside or in septic/sewer systems?

This is what is legally required in my state and area and what I was taught from a couple different commercial shops in this area. Oily water leftover from soaking finished rags is very similar to old solvent/paint/other finishing supplies. Not sure what is gross about that compared to any other finishing supplies that need to be disposed of accordingly.

[Jim Becker]

As a retired fireman, the one thing that bothered me was the plastic trash cans. I was waiting to see if more than one would light at one time and start melting down and burning before he could get to it. That burning plastic smell would have stuck around for a long time in the shop. Other than that, it was a great learning experience.

Also glad when he removed them all at the end of the test. Well done.
He specifically mentioned that he used those because they were what is very commonly used in folks' shops. My shop has two of them, as a matter of fact. (but I don't put finishing rags in them...they get hung on a repurposed bird feeder "crook" away from the building to dry fully before disposal)
----

I'm kinda disappointed in some of the responses including those that make fun of a guy making a serious effort to warn/remind folks that the risks of oily rags are real. You're better than that folks. There certainly were things not done the "best" way for sure in the testing/video and I might have done some of them differently given some thought. One of them would have been to have his shop assistant/camera operator there for the entire exercise so there two sets of eyes available or to do the entire test out on the driveway. But regardless. I applaud him for calling attention to something that way too many people...and not just beginners...can and do get into trouble with.

[Kevin Jenness]

I'm kinda disappointed in some of the responses including those that make fun of a guy making a serious effort to warn/remind folks that the risks of oily rags are real. You're better than that folks. There certainly were things not done the "best" way for sure in the testing/video and I might have done some of them differently given some thought. One of them would have been to have his shop assistant/camera operator there for the entire exercise so there two sets of eyes available or to do the entire test out on the driveway. But regardless. I applaud him for calling attention to something that way too many people...and not just beginners...can and do get into trouble with.

I guess I'm not better than that, sorry. He could have started and stopped with the security cam footage from his friend's shop. Great idea to do some testing with real world conditions, but he's damned lucky he didn't burn down his shop or involve neighboring properties. He could have easily had several simultaneous fires going on with a couple of 10# extinguishers, a pail of water and a very sick feeling. I can imagine the reaction of the firefighters had that little experiment gone out of control.

[Dan Gaylin]

+1 to Cliff’s question. Once the water dries out aren’t the oil soaked rags still a combustion risk?

[andrew whicker]

I would think so unless the oil and water emulsify, which I'm guessing is what happens over a few days? When I put rags in water for a few days, the water is definitely oily so seems to be what is called emulsion.

So maybe at that point there isn't enough oil to oxidize and/or the oil has already been oxidized (which is the exothermic reaction that can cause combustion in a pile of rags. There is oxygen in water.). Or not enough oil to worry about the temp increasing. It sounds like the big problem is enough surface area to oxidize while also a pile tight enough that the heat can't escape -> more heat = faster reaction -> continue this trend until you reach the combustion temperature of the oil. Furthermore, it sounds like Linseed Oil oxidizes really quickly and has a low combustion temp which is why it is especially likely to combust while other oils are less so.

https://www.heads-up.biz/linseed-oil

[Cameron Wood]

? What do you do with old / used solvent, paint, etc? Does your local landfill not have designated days and areas that they collect such things to prevent people from just mixing them in the normal household trash, or worse, just pouring them out outside or in septic/sewer systems?

This is what is legally required in my state and area and what I was taught from a couple different commercial shops in this area. Oily water leftover from soaking finished rags is very similar to old solvent/paint/other finishing supplies. Not sure what is gross about that compared to any other finishing supplies that need to be disposed of accordingly.



Yes, in my area there is a hazardous waste collection site, where I take paint, etc. if necessary- not the landfill as you stated.

I try to minimize waste generally and toxics in particular, so avoid generating a bunch of oily waste water.

I haven't had a problem with spreading rags out to dry, but James Pallas' story is cautionary for sure.

[Myles Moran]

Thanks for sharing this Jim. I'll be buying a finish fire cabinet as well as a fire garbage can after watching this. I always assumed that a rag laid flat on my concrete floor would be safe enough, but if 3 samples caught fire here, I'm not going to play those odds

[Malcolm McLeod]

I would think so unless the oil and water emulsify, which I'm guessing is what happens over a few days? When I put rags in water for a few days, the water is definitely oily so seems to be what is called emulsion.

So maybe at that point there isn't enough oil to oxidize and/or the oil has already been oxidized (which is the exothermic reaction that can cause combustion in a pile of rags. There is oxygen in water.). Or not enough oil to worry about the temp increasing. It sounds like the big problem is enough surface area to oxidize while also a pile tight enough that the heat can't escape -> more heat = faster reaction -> continue this trend until you reach the combustion temperature of the oil. Furthermore, it sounds like Linseed Oil oxidizes really quickly and has a low combustion temp which is why it is especially likely to combust while other oils are less so.

https://www.heads-up.biz/linseed-oil


An observation from industry: an emulsion is generally an oil/water mix and then highly agitated (think margarine), oil 'floating' on water is not an emulsion. ...minor point, semantics, moving on.

I don't know the exact 'chemistry' of the oily rag + water, but suspect that oxygen introduced from spreading (aeration), the air in the weave of the rag, and the water is enough to begin, and sustain curing. Even in water.

My understanding of the hazard mitigation provided by water-soaked finish rags is that it is almost 100% heat transfer related. The heat generated in a balled-up finish rag can't escape (convection) while buried in a trash can, so internal temperatures climb. But sitting in water and a metal can, that heat is easily carried away - ultimately to atmosphere - well before ignition temperatures are reached.

I lay mine flat to dry on concrete (inside :: no wind to wad them up, blow them to a wood fence, and burn the world). Off-gassing? Smell? Hmm, hmm good. I love the smell of tung oil in the morning. It smells like ... another project ready to deliver.

[Bill Carey]

A cautionary tale for sure - thx for posting Jim. When I'm finishing a project, I collect the rags as I go in a metal bucket, and when I'm done, I dump the bucket in the fire pit out back. Never once have they combusted, but it sure is possible. I've always had to go out at the end of the day with the cut offs, light the rags, and a cigar, and sit and relax by the fire. Very decompressing after a day in the shop.

[andrew whicker]

Awesome thanks. What is oil floating in water called?

[Jim Becker]

Awesome thanks. What is oil floating in water called?

A mess waiting to happen? :D

[James Pallas]

I don’t know anything about the chemistry. I do know that what I call the old timers, experienced workers from the 1960’s were very aware if this issue. I was well schooled on the subject. I didn’t know why but followed their lead. NO OILY RAGS LEFT LAYING IN A BUILDING, even for a few minutes like lunch time. When the pallet incident occurred I knew why. Soak well in water, for some hours wring out a couple of times, outside to dry and then to the trash.

[Mel Fulks]

Oil floating in water is called “pond scum”.

[Michael Drew]

I also like this guy. I appreciate the time he put into the experiment. It's a great reminder. I manage a machine shop where millwrights share the common space. Lots of rags are used, and we have always segregated oil soaked rags from other 'trash' for this very reason. They have always been placed in metal cans with clear bags, and they have always been required to be covered with a lid. It must have been about 7 or 8 years ago that one of the state's safety and fed OSHA inspectors (annual facility inspections) recommended that we replace the metal trash cans with purpose build fire cans..... I've always known there is a potential for rags to light off, but I admit that I have not actually seen it demonstrated in the manor that Jason has done with this video. I'll be sharing the link with my team.

Not real sure why some feel the need to judge, but I suspect it's just human nature. Much easier to critique the work of others, than actually contribute or help. Could he have done this better, safer, - sure. Seems to me that did put some thought and effort into this, and I appreciate his efforts.

[Edward Weber]

Not real sure why some feel the need to judge, but I suspect it's just human nature. Much easier to critique the work of others, than actually contribute or help. Could he have done this better, safer, - sure. Seems to me that did put some thought and effort into this, and I appreciate his efforts.

Cunningham's law

Also, not to pile on but there were some things in the video that weren't totally thought out, IMO

Be safe

[Michael Drew]

Cunningham's law

Also, not to pile on but there were some things in the video that weren't totally thought out, IMO

Be safe

I'm pretty sure he did not think he would get the results he did. I know better, and still found myself surprised things went they way they did.

[Edward Weber]

Personally, I just would have liked to have seen a little more fire safety, considering the subject matter.
Having the extinguisher closer, knowing how to use it and having a more direct, clear path to the safety of outdoors.

He is after all, a Youtube content creator, that's his job. If he gets criticism, that's part of the gig. It doesn't matter what the subject is.

I've commented on videos where I think others need to know what they're watching is potential dangerous only to be told to basically shut up.
You really can't win.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I hang mine on a gate, a chain-link gate, until they have dried completely. Then into the trash.

[Warren Lake]

Been around a while and know lots of people custom car builders cabinetmakers and never seen anyone put wet rags in a bag and leave it in their shop in the last 50 years and not sure why anyone would.

Never seen anyone put wet rags into a plastic garbage can nor rags with sawdust or other.

Flat on the floor was supposed to be okay and did it the odd time, never saw heat with the heat gauge. If reusing hung stuff up never saw heat from them and reused them several times if they didn't harden up too much. They usually softened up right away if reused.

Always saw the special metal cans that were air tight and had some special air circulation that helped cool any heat produced. Never saw water used in them.

[Lee Schierer]

So even though some things could have been done more safely, my take away from the video is statistically there is a 1 in six chance of combustion with improperly disposed rags soaked with linseed oil. Obviously handling the rags properly would be the safest approach for disposing of them.

[eugene thomas]

burn barrels sure work good for rags.

[Jim Becker]

So even though some things could have been done more safely, my take away from the video is statistically there is a 1 in six chance of combustion with improperly disposed rags soaked with linseed oil. Obviously handling the rags properly would be the safest approach for disposing of them.
I suspect it has the potential to be higher since the experiment was shut down after x hours rather than letting it continue all night.

[Doug Garson]

burn barrels sure work good for rags.
Depends a lot on where you live, no room for a burn barrel for most of us in the city. Some country locations in high fire risk areas it would be a no no also.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I understand the importance of avoiding spontaneous combustion, though I didn't watch the video. I'm a little puzzled by the whole concept of finishing that people seem to assume. Even when I had a whole staircase to finish I only used about 1/4 of the end of a retired sock to apply the oil, and then hung it on a rock in the yard. The next day when it was time for the second coat I used about another 1/4 of the sock starting from the other end. It seems odd to me that people (outside of a factory type situation) would have multiple rags soaked in oil at any given time. It seems like a waste of oil, which is not cheap anymore if it ever was. Mostly I do my finishing with about a 2-3" square of Scott Shop Towel, for reasonably sized things.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Awesome thanks. What is oil floating in water called?

In the average food production facility, the lab techies would probably call it a 'heterogeneous mixture'.:confused:
The folks on the plant floor would just use 'mixture' (or "clean up on aisle 3"?). Take your pick.;)




... still found myself surprised things went they way they did.

I suspect everyone, including Mr. B.Moth, would be much less surprised if he had embedded a thermocouple in each test rig at the approximate center of the oily rags. I'll forgive a woodworker - even on 'Tube - for not having 18 T/Cs, a multi-channel monitor, and of course a chart recorder on each channel. However, the test as run perfectly illustrates the thermodynamics involved: the outer layers of material stayed (relatively) cool to the non-contact sensor he used, while the insulated interior, where he couldn't measure, reached combustion temp. There was very limited heat transfer 'out' of the oily rag.

Polymerization is an exothermic reaction; BTUs are generated no matter how you dispose of them (even in a burn barrel); where do those BTUs go and how fast can they get there? If you keep them all in one place for too long, you might get the :eek::eek::eek:?

[Edward Weber]

I understand the importance of avoiding spontaneous combustion, though I didn't watch the video. I'm a little puzzled by the whole concept of finishing that people seem to assume. Even when I had a whole staircase to finish I only used about 1/4 of the end of a retired sock to apply the oil, and then hung it on a rock in the yard. The next day when it was time for the second coat I used about another 1/4 of the sock starting from the other end. It seems odd to me that people (outside of a factory type situation) would have multiple rags soaked in oil at any given time. It seems like a waste of oil, which is not cheap anymore if it ever was. Mostly I do my finishing with about a 2-3" square of Scott Shop Towel, for reasonably sized things.
+1
The only time I have an entire shop rag, un-cut, is when finishing outside timbers and wood for landscaping. In which case I usually just leave the rag in the can of finish to use on the next project.
Small pieces are all that's required most of the time

A lot of these folks act like they're hanging the wash out on the line with the amount of rags used.

[Frank Pratt]

When I was a kid on the farm we had a manure pile that self combusted and nearly took out the barn. Pretty scary.

[Warren Lake]

asked two fireman friends, one said they were taught that Linseed oil was the worst.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Awesome thanks. What is oil floating in water called?
I've only ever hear it called a slick - an oil slick, but, I've only really hear it called that with regards to oil floating on an expanse or body of water, not oil in a pail.

[Bryan Hall]

An interesting video and I think the message is worthy. When reading through the comments though (on youtube), and chasing the rabbit hole to the AvE youtube channel, there are some counterpoints that are definitely on the attack against this test. Some of it is a bit silly, but some of it is thought provoking.

[brent stanley]

An interesting video and I think the message is worthy. When reading through the comments though (on youtube), and chasing the rabbit hole to the AvE youtube channel, there are some counterpoints that are definitely on the attack against this test. Some of it is a bit silly, but some of it is thought provoking.

In context though, AvE did a video a while ago where he suggested the oily rag thing was just an insurance scam because his lame test didn't burst into flames. This means he HAS TO crap on any video that shows something to the contrary, for the sake of his brand.

[Bryan Hall]

In context though, AvE did a video a while ago where he suggested the oily rag thing was just an insurance scam because his lame test didn't burst into flames. This means he HAS TO crap on any video that shows something to the contrary, for the sake of his brand.

Which is a fair point too. The war of youtube vids is a whole other thing to consider. The thing that did stand out to me though was the lack of smoke. Every other video of oily rag fires I've come across did, in fact, have a lot of smoke. Regardless, I think teaching the safety aspect of it is important and it may well have inspired me to run a few tests myself!

[brent stanley]

Which is a fair point too. The war of youtube vids is a whole other thing to consider. The thing that did stand out to me though was the lack of smoke. Every other video of oily rag fires I've come across did, in fact, have a lot of smoke. Regardless, I think teaching the safety aspect of it is important and it may well have inspired me to run a few tests myself!

Yes, there are undoubtedly many competing things going on that we can't know for sure and BMs decision to mostly stay out of the fray can be seen as a mature decision to mainly (not entirely) stay out of the SM warzone or because he has no reply....we will never know. One thing BM did say is he turned the heat exchanger on and perhaps has a fresh air supply to the shop that dealt with the smell/smoke...we will never know. AvE did seem to be trying too hard though....that lousy security cam footage of his buddy's fire apparently not showing smoke? I don't think you could claim much definitive from that footage....the flames massively overexposing that portion of the frame left everything else pretty invisible. My own experiment with this got the rags hot as heck with no smell to speak of and no smoke, but I had to abort my experiment before ignition. So I dunno ...

[Jim Becker]

There are a number of YouTube channels that literally thrive (including financially) on going after successful content creators. I have not watched the AvE video and frankly, do not intend to, so I don't know if anything is real or just attention seeking (or some combination of the two), but I have never gotten the impression that Jason was anything other than a real guy who is both entertaining and skilled. He's a good family man, too. Who knows. The bottom line really is, however, that spontaneous combustion is a real risk for anyone using oil based finishes and if his video wakes up even one person and that keeps a disaster from happening, it will be a very happy thing.

[brent stanley]

There are a number of YouTube channels that literally thrive (including financially) on going after successful content creators. I have not watched the AvE video and frankly, do not intend to, so I don't know if anything is real or just attention seeking (or some combination of the two), but I have never gotten the impression that Jason was anything other than a real guy who is both entertaining and skilled. He's a good family man, too. Who knows. The bottom line really is, however, that spontaneous combustion is a real risk for anyone using oil based finishes and if his video wakes up even one person and that keeps a disaster from happening, it will be a very happy thing.

Yup, it's a real thing, it's a real risk and everyone should know about it. With any luck AvE hasn't deterred anyone from getting the message.

[Andrew More]

There are a number of YouTube channels that literally thrive (including financially) on going after successful content creators.

OTOH, here we have a video with nearly 900K views with a sensationalistic title and picture. I'm sure Bourbon Moth is also making a lot of money with his video.

[Rich Engelhardt]

OTOH, here we have a video with nearly 900K views with a sensationalistic title and picture. I'm sure Bourbon Moth is also making a lot of money with his video.According to this:
https://starstat.yt/ch/bourbon-moth-woodworking-net-worth
He's doing pretty well.

I had no idea Youtube could be so lucrative until I looked up some of the sites - in reference to the thread here about all the recent surge of Sawstop saws in videos.

With that much money floating around, it's pretty easy to see how many of those video stars can afford to buy new expensive equipment.

[Bryan Hall]

OTOH, here we have a video with nearly 900K views with a sensationalistic title and picture. I'm sure Bourbon Moth is also making a lot of money with his video.

Agreed. First and foremost his job is to create content and this is definitely one of his more successful videos. I'm not claiming he faked it, but there are some inconsistencies that are worth noting from a more scientific angle.

I'll clarify again that the message is still important. If people already didn't believe in the fire risk, this probably didn't change them. If they didn't know, then they are now informed.

For me, picking apart videos like this is important from an educational standpoint (Masters in Ex. Ed.). I was VERY excited to watch when this video first dropped. However, looking at it with a critical eye, it had a lot of weaknesses. I know he was trying to expedite the process, but some of the choices at setup really blew the credibility of the test. When safety videos like this are done that have huge reach, it's important to me that they are done with the highest level of scientific credibility that they can achieve.

A quick google search pulls up this video with a fire investigator involved which stands out to me:
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/officials-warn-spontaneous-combustion-risk-linseed-oil-common-40843569
A different setup that we can compare and contrast (outdoors, different container, different product, on and on) however:
2 hours: over 200 degrees
4.5 hours: smoke and 400 degrees
6 hours: fire

So in this scenario, there was a much more linear temperature increase and they got readings up to 400 degrees and over an hour of smoke before flames. Could the fire department and news team be faking their end in order to make the story and teach a lesson? Well, I suppose that's possible too. However, I see more videos where this scenario is filmed and played out. Not the BM shop test.

So again, the message is still the same. Properly dispose of your rags. I like having really good data to share and continue to teach with and I don't know that this video will add to the depth of knowledge that I desire. It will, however, spread the breadth of awareness that is the most important point for the general public.

[Jim Becker]

OTOH, here we have a video with nearly 900K views with a sensationalistic title and picture. I'm sure Bourbon Moth is also making a lot of money with his video.
Absolutely. Content creation is his business and earning money from it is what businesses do. This is just one video of many.

[Andrew More]

Absolutely. Content creation is his business and earning money from it is what businesses do. This is just one video of many.

So is AvE's and yet you don't treat the two with the same level of respect, which is why my original comment highlighted this. It's unfair to assert only one of these videos is about making money, clearly both are, from establish channels with a lot of other content.

[Edward Weber]

I'm still not convinced that this broadens the awareness of the dangers involved enough to make any difference. Although, if one persone becomes aware, I suppose that's something.

More often than not these days, people see a video with a bit of controversy or some differences of opinion and immediately retreat into their respective camps. This happens just about anytime some content creator attempts a "scientific" test of some kind.
Fueled by conformation bias, they often rush to find other videos to support there position, right or wrong. There doesn't seem to be any need to actually think about what's going on or understand the testing, only the need to support your position.

If the testing method used to collect the data is flawed, the results concluded by analyzing that data will also be flawed. You can't take short-cuts or make accurate conclusions without proper testing.
This will no doubt spawn more videos on both sides of the argument, which is NOT is spontaneous combustion real but rather are these tests real or just cleverly edited.

JMHO

[George Yetka]

When I was younger and working on cars I had a spot at my office where I could work late. One night the building next door started pouring smoke out of it and we just so happened to be right there and were able to call. They where a marble/granite shop and I believe it was acetone rags that went up. Therir rag bin went up but luckily hadnt spread. By the time fire dept got there. The owner was very unapreciative of us or the firefighters. Was upset the door was kicked in and the chain on his fence cut.

I use a bunch more rubio/osmo than any other finish save mineral oil. I dont end up with alot of rags but what I do get sits on the floor by itself until its hard

[Bryan Hall]

When I was younger and working on cars I had a spot at my office where I could work late. One night the building next door started pouring smoke out of it and we just so happened to be right there and were able to call. They where a marble/granite shop and I believe it was acetone rags that went up. Therir rag bin went up but luckily hadnt spread. By the time fire dept got there. The owner was very unapreciative of us or the firefighters. Was upset the door was kicked in and the chain on his fence cut.

Sounds like you hosed him out of early retirement via a tidy insurance claim 😂

I mainly use Rubio, a touch of Osmo and Tung at times. I have a water bucket that the rags go into.

[Clifford McGuire]

Bourbon Moth is still one of the WW channels I subscribe to. He actually makes stuff, and hasn't degraded into the "47 Must Have Tools!!!!" or "107 Uses for Blue Tape!" videos.

So, I watched his video and thought it was well done.

It was timely for me. I used to live on a farm and threw the oily rags into the burn barrel. Now that I'm in suburbia, I need to find a different solution.

[Bryan Hall]

Jason actually did a shop sounds podcast about the controversy and it was informative for me. If you’re interested check it out!