Any Apple Tree Experts Out There?

[Barry McFadden]

I have a couple of apple trees in the back yard and I'm trying to find something that works to control apple maggot and apple scab. Over the last few years I have tried all kinds of sprays with no luck. Last year one of the local garden certers recommendad Malathion which did nothing for me. I used to use a product called Wilson Fruit Tree Spray which worked great but since pretty much any decent spray has been banned from up here I can't find something that works. Funny thing....as I understand the law...... I can go to the USA and bring back as much spray as I want that is banned up here legaly I just can't use it??? I should have bought a bunch of the Wilson spray as I could find when I knew they were going to ban it but I didn't. My other choice is to go to one of the many pick your own apple farms in the area (who have tons of great looking apples) and ask what they do. I'm pretty sure they can still use the sprays that we are not allowed to. We get hundreds of apples off the two small trees we have it's just that they are no good to eat. So if anyone has anything that works I would love to hear about it. Thanks

[Jerry Bruette]

I'm not an expert but a quick search at bonide.com and enter your tree ailments in their search. Don't know if they're available in Canada though.

[Jim Koepke]

You may want to look into organic methods. If my memory is working apple maggots live in the ground over the winter. Disturbing (tilling) the soil around the base of the tree out to the drip line helps to eliminate them. This should be done at the end of the season and the beginning.

Here is more info > https://extension.umn.edu/yard-and-garden-insects/apple-maggot#keep-your-garden-clean-1814710

Apple scab is a fungus so a fungicide and keeping the area under trees free of leaf litter should help.

jtk

[Stan Calow]

Call your county extension agent. Thats what they are there for.

[Barry McFadden]

Thanks for the help guys..... Jerry....I looked on the Bonide website and they have a product Called Fruit Tree Spray that I think would work but no way to order it online. I sent them a note to see if there is a way I could get it.
Jim..... thanks for the link....
Stan....I have no idea what a county extension agent is!! ....Maybe they have them in Kansas City but not here.

[Stan Calow]

Sorry Barry. I missed that you're in Canada. In the US I think almost every county has an office (an extension) to advise farmers and non-farmers on growing things, including soil testing and pest control. County Agent is the common term*. I think it's funded through state and/or federal Departments of Agriculture. And universities in agricultural states often provide such advice as well.

Also, in urban areas, there are gardening clubs with expertise. But your idea of contacting a local orchard is pretty good.



* the most famous being Hank Kimball from the '60s sitcom, Green Acres.

[Jim Koepke]

Barry, another pest to consider is ants. They may not directly affect your fruit or trees, but the often carry fungus spores on their feet. They also farm aphids.

There is a product that I have used to stop them from climbing trees called Tangle Foot. It is a sticky substance that can be applied around the tree near the ground to keep ants from climbing the trunk.

jtk

[Barry McFadden]

Barry, another pest to consider is ants. They may not directly affect your fruit or trees, but the often carry fungus spores on their feet. They also farm aphids.

There is a product that I have used to stop them from climbing trees called Tangle Foot. It is a sticky substance that can be applied around the tree near the ground to keep ants from climbing the trunk.

jtk

Thanks Jim...certainly something to consider...

[Bill Dufour]

Bordeaux mixture is the classic for fungus on fruit trees. It is no longer sold in the USA. But I bought copper sulfate and lime no problem. Just mix fresh for every use. The copper sulfate is about $1.50 per pound. Lime was $3.00 for 50 pound bag at tractor supply. Mix was about three ounces each per gallon of water. So pretty cheap. Do not go overboard and flood copper into the ground water.
Bill D.

https://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7413.html#:~:text=Bordeaux%20mixture%20is%20a%20 combination,bloom%20and%20early%20fruit%20set.

https://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7481.html#:~:text=Bordeaux%20mixture%E2%80%94a%2 0combination%20of,vine%20fruits%2C%20and%20ornamen tal%20plants.

[Barry McFadden]

I've tried so many things I can't remember them all. Lime Sulfer and Dormant oil spray, copper powder mix , insectidal soap, Malathion, Fungiside....and the list goes on. The only thing tyhat reallyu worked was the Wilson Fruit Tree Spray. I see it on Amazon as Wilson Fruit Plus but it says "can't be shipped to your location (because I'm in Ontario) If i moved to Quebec I could get it!!!!! I contacted Bonide.com that Jerry suggested aafter I saw a product on their website that would work but they got back to me that they don't sell outside the USA and the product I want has been discontinued. There is a product on Amaqzon called Bioprotec I could get that is for apple scab but I'm more interested in getting rid of the maggot.

[Jerry Bruette]

Many, many moons ago I played with some apple trees here at home and didn't have any luck with the trees themselves. But I was anticipating problems and did some research. I remember reading about traps for the maggot flies that were red balls that were coated with tanglefoot and some type of bait applied. It was supposed to attract the flies and they would land to lay their eggs and get caught in the tanglefoot.

You could check Gurneys or Burpees for information about the traps. Here's some links that may help you.

https://treefruit.wsu.edu/crop-protection/opm/am-control_waapple-growers/
https://hort.extension.wisc.edu/articles/apple-maggot-scourge-of-home-apple-production/
https://www.canr.msu.edu/resources/apple-maggot

Good Luck

[Jared Sankovich]

I spray liquid copper for fireblight, rally 40wsp as a fungicide and Malathion and liquid sevin (carbaryl) as insecticide. Not sure if any of that is available in your area.

Wilson's is basically the same except captan as the fungicide instead of rally

[Barry McFadden]

Thankjs Jerry.... I saw something about those red traps and started looking into it... https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/olson-apple-maggot-trap-kit/insect-traps-lures But as usual they only distribute in the States. I did find a listing on ebay but at 2 traps for $85 US plus $24 shipping there is no way I'm payingh that! If anyone knows of a company that sells the traps like in the link please let me know... I've pretty much failed at finding any that I can get sent up here.....

[Bill Dufour]

Those seem to just be red balls you coat with tanglefoot. The females try to lay eggs on the balls and get stuck. I bet the color needs to be uv reflective not nessacaryily red.
Bill D.

[Jerry Bruette]

Thankjs Jerry.... I saw something about those red traps and started looking into it... https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/olson-apple-maggot-trap-kit/insect-traps-lures But as usual they only distribute in the States. I did find a listing on ebay but at 2 traps for $85 US plus $24 shipping there is no way I'm payingh that! If anyone knows of a company that sells the traps like in the link please let me know... I've pretty much failed at finding any that I can get sent up here.....

Yeah you could make those red balls. If I remember it was about 3-4 inches in diameter with a screw eye for hanging and get this ...... painted apple red to visually attract the flies.

[Barry McFadden]

Those seem to just be red balls you coat with tanglefoot. The females try to lay eggs on the balls and get stuck. I bet the color needs to be uv reflective not nessacaryily red.
Bill D.

What I'm reading says the bright red "apple" ball attracts the apple maggot fly... Maybe I could use this https://www.amazon.ca/Ortho-Tanglefoot-Tangle-Trap-Coating-Aerosol/dp/B07SFK79TJ/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3W38PLKWKUIIB&keywords=tanglefoot&qid=1679758471&sprefix=tanglefoot%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-9 although the price is a little steep but 1 can is over $90!!.. and maybe I could get some fruit fly traps like this https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07HP94VCP/ref=sbl_dpx_ca-outdoor-pest-traps_B07SFK79TJ_0 to spray and hang on the tree. Don't really have any other options that I can think of....

[Jerry Bruette]

Try this supplier

https://pestsupplycanada.ca/products/tree-tanglefoot-insect-barrier-tub-425g?_pos=1&_psq=tangle&_ss=e&_v=1.0

[Thomas Pender]

Sorry I am a bit late. I am an orchardist (Shenandioah Valley) - grow 27 different cultivars of apple trees and 4 pears. Bottom line is as a very small grower I can afford the overhead of a large tank sprayer (pulled behind my tractor) and more than 20 different kinds of pesticides (insecticides and fungicides) and also have a license that entitles me to buy and apply Restricted Use Pesticides (the stuff that really works). Stuff that works on scab that is not restricted in the USA anyway (and that are not too expensive) includes Manzate Pro-Stik, Captan, Ziram, and Pristine (I use all of this stuff). For bugs, the pyrethoids will work for sure on maggots and dormant oil will work on scale and mites, with Imidan (more expensive and tricky) working on many other things, including Plum Curculio. Get on the website for one of the US land grant universities where apples are relevant (Michigan, Minnesota, Penn State, Purdue, VA Tech, etc., and look up their spray bulletin for rentry times, harvest interval, what pests the stuff works on, etc. Many of the stuff you see in the box stores contains good stuff but in a vastly diluted form - like Spectricide - which I use in its Restricted form and is 140 times more powerful as Lamba CY. Let me know if you have a rust or Fireblight issue and I will tell you what to use on that. (But, using something like Cuprofix really helps on Fireblight.) Oh, stay away from fertilizers using phosphorus and potassium if you get bitter pit - Honeycrisps are very susceptible to that. I tend to use plain old 46-0-0.

[Steve Demuth]

You've got two completely separate problems to address, Apple maggot is the larva of a fruit fly. Scab is a fungous. No one treatment will control both. You may may think that Wilson Fruit Plus did, but it in fact had no real effect on your scab problem, as the active ingredient in that product is permethrin, an insecticide.

Timing is everything in controlling Apple Maggot. The adult flies lay their eggs on young fruit, so the eggs can hatch into the larva that ruin your fruit as it sizes up and ripens. To control them, you've got to either prevent the egg laying, or kill the eggs on the fruit. Once the larva are inside the fruit, they're more or less untouchable.

I control Apple Maggot very successfully with a product called Surround. Surround is a finely powdered kaolin clay that discourages the fruit flies from landing or depositing eggs on your fruit. To work, you have to keep the trees fully covered in a fine layer of the spray. For me here in the upper Midwest, that means weekly to every ten days or so spraying starting around July 1st, through at least the last half of August. Usually I get by with 4 sprays, although in a really rainy summery, I made need more as hard rains can wash the Surround off the trees. If you try this, be sure to use a good spreader/sticker with the Surround -that'll greatly increase it's staying power on the fruit. Coverage matters, but if you miss a spot on your tree, it just means you'll have maggots in the fruit on that branch or area. (I in fact leave one true unsprayed as a trap tree - the Surround works by discouraging the flies, not by killing them, so having some place for them to go increases its effectiveness).

Surround is great, because it's completely nontoxic. The stuff (kaolin clay) is literally used as a binder in food products, and is one of the two components of the OTC treatment for diarrhea , kaopectate.

For scab, the most important thing you can do is clean up under the trees in the fall - get rid of all fallen fruit and leaves. They are the source of the infection you get the next Spring. Spraying for scab is again a matter of getting the timing right. Lime-sulfur should control it for you, but you have to have the spray well stuck on the twigs, leaves and fruit before you get a scab infection event (basically, a period where the leaves stay wet and the temperature above about 18C for 8 or more hours, roughly during the month after the tips of the apple twigs first show green). If you don't stop scab during that month, you'll never stop the secondary infections that occur throughout the summer. If you do get good control on the primary, the secondary infectinos won't give you much trouble.

[Terry Therneau]

This isn't helpful to you, but on the farm we had no problems with apple maggots and I credit the the cows. When an apple falls the maggot inside needs to migrate out and into the ground, but they never got a chance: the cows really liked fallen apples and kept the ground clear. But I expect that a herd of dairy cows isn't what you had in mind :-)
Terry

[Jared Sankovich]

Sorry I am a bit late. I am an orchardist (Shenandioah Valley) - grow 27 different cultivars of apple trees and 4 pears. Bottom line is as a very small grower I can afford the overhead of a large tank sprayer (pulled behind my tractor) and more than 20 different kinds of pesticides (insecticides and fungicides) and also have a license that entitles me to buy and apply Restricted Use Pesticides (the stuff that really works). Stuff that works on scab that is not restricted in the USA anyway (and that are not too expensive) includes Manzate Pro-Stik, Captan, Ziram, and Pristine (I use all of this stuff). For bugs, the pyrethoids will work for sure on maggots and dormant oil will work on scale and mites, with Imidan (more expensive and tricky) working on many other things, including Plum Curculio. Get on the website for one of the US land grant universities where apples are relevant (Michigan, Minnesota, Penn State, Purdue, VA Tech, etc., and look up their spray bulletin for rentry times, harvest interval, what pests the stuff works on, etc. Many of the stuff you see in the box stores contains good stuff but in a vastly diluted form - like Spectricide - which I use in its Restricted form and is 140 times more powerful as Lamba CY. Let me know if you have a rust or Fireblight issue and I will tell you what to use on that. (But, using something like Cuprofix really helps on Fireblight.) Oh, stay away from fertilizers using phosphorus and potassium if you get bitter pit - Honeycrisps are very susceptible to that. I tend to use plain old 46-0-0.

Any suggestions for European hornets. They decimated my crop last year.

[Barry McFadden]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions... much appreciated... but I'm still running into the problem of trying to get anything. I can put up with the bit of apple scab but I really need to get rid of the apple maggot. The Canadian link that Jerry gave has the Tanglefoot available but it's a paste to put on the trunk to prevent insects from climbing up so that won't help with the flies that get at the apples. I'll have to get the spray in the link I posted earlier. I would like to try the kaolin clay and found a page with links to 4 distributers but, as usual. they don't ship outside the USA. Very frustrating.... someone should let these companies know that a world does exist outside the USA!! Anyway thanks again and I'll keep looking...

Terry.... I checked into the cows and the pricing was good but shipping was a killer!!!!!

[Thomas Pender]

Yeah. You need an insecticide registered for Pome Trees (Apple Trees) that kills them. Bifen comes to mind as does Permethrin (which has the side effect of killing some of the beneficial mites). Sevin also works and it is not that impactful unless you spray too early and thin the little apples out too much (it is the most effective thinning agent generally used - especially when added to things like NAA). Not sure what the hornets are doing in your trees - I usually see them late in the season after some ^&%$ crows bite into the top of some apples and the hornets come in and get drunk as the apples ferment. So, I think it is more likely birds (crows or whatever) are causing your problem followed up by Hornets. Big pain is you cannot use Lorsban (Pilot 4E-Chlorphyrifos) any more against hornets and many other pests because even if you have a license it is no longer legal to use. Seems folks thought because 16 oz in 1000 gallons of water was the label dose if they doubled or tripled it it would help —sigh. I saw the post about Surround - it is great stuff but hard to apply - probably the best accidentally discovered organic pesticide. If you are eating and cleaning your own apples it is great - if you are trying to market them - well that can be a different problem. I would hesitate to try very hard to kill them late season because you will run into harvest interval issues (if you used something like Lamba CY (a RUP) and most of the stuff that does well is toxic with a pretty long interval - again, check the Spray Bulletins front your local land grant university. Here in Va we are blessed with the VA Tech guys at the Alson Smith Center outside of Winchester where the boss is an entomologist, they have a terrific disease guy from Cornell, and a horticultural guy who is lots of fun - . Have to admit I spend more time being an Orchardist in the summer than I do Woodworking, but that is another story.

[Jerry Bruette]

Barry, when you use the tanglefoot paste you can smear it on the red wooden apple "decoy". I hope you're not under the assumption that you spray tanglefoot onto the individual apples. That would be an unholy mess to clean before you eat an apple.

[Barry McFadden]

Barry, when you use the tanglefoot paste you can smear it on the red wooden apple "decoy". I hope you're not under the assumption that you spray tanglefoot onto the individual apples. That would be an unholy mess to clean before you eat an apple.

Lol ......no Jerry I wasn't thinking of spraying it on the apples....I was thinking if I get some of these plastic red apple decoys it would be easier to spray them than smearing a paste on them. Actually Home Depot has a 2 pack of these "apples" for fruit flies that I may get and I could spray them with the sticky stuff and hope it would work against the apple maggot flies since the red is supposed to attract them. Don't really want to spend $100 for a couple cans of sticky spray but I'm running out of options.

[Tom Bender]

The cows may not work out for you but a goat or two might be manageable

[Bill Dufour]

Apples? A pig comes to mind.
bill D.