Flush trimming and chipping

[Patty Hann]

I'm making a T-Track table (30x36). **

I plan to glue the laminate to the top surface (1" MDF with WilsonArt type laminate...white).

I've read more than a dozen different articles on how to trim the laminate and do it without chipping/tearing/cracking the edges (will address routing the top for the tracks a little later)
That's a dozen variations on flush trimming the laminate.

Examples: use a round bearing...don't use a round bearing use a square bearing....use a square nylon (plastic/teflon) bearing.... use a long bit with 2 bearings... use a short bit (i.e.minimize the cutting edge)... flush trim with solid guide (no bearing).... spiral up-cut,...spiral down cut....super-dee-duper dual bearing compression geometry ("it slices, it dices, it makes Julienne fries"...:D)

Will someone (or several someones :)) please help with this...what bit(s), best way(s), things to watch out for (especially the "never do [THIS]"), those little helps that can make a big difference ("always do [THIS]")

I haven't bought any bits yet, and I don't want to buy something that turns out to be not the best bit for doing this.
Even if I have to buy a couple different bits that's OK, so long as they give me the best results.

I have two compact routers, the Ridgid (my first one and it has served me very well) and also got the DeWalt Compact router (for Christmas).
I have the [aftermarket] oversized base plates for both but not the elongated base plate with the handle/grip on one end. Would it be a good idea to get one of those?

Thanks in advance to any and all who can help me with this.

** I know there are ready made T-Track table tops out there, but none of them fill my needs/application.
(and besides I really want to try this :)... flush trimming laminate can be used for a lot of things)

[Kevin Jenness]

You don't need anything exotic for tooling, a sharp, short carbide flush trim bit with a round bearing will work just fine. Countertop shops may use a solid bit to avoid a bearing getting gummed up but they also probably use silicone spray and a fast feed rate to avoid burning. Cut your laminate fairly close to finished size and make sure you have a helper or a good way to accurately register it to the substrate. You can use long dowels to hold the laminate in position over the substrate and pull them out one by one as you lay the piece- you only get one shot at it. If you do have a big overhang, support the falloff to avoid tearing. Move the router along at a moderate, steady rate. You may need to clean up the bearing and any excess glue with acetone or lacquer thinner.

[Patty Hann]

You don't need anything exotic for tooling, a sharp, short carbide flush trim bit with a round bearing will work just fine. Countertop shops may use a solid bit to avoid a bearing getting gummed up but they also probably use silicone spray and a fast feed rate to avoid burning. Cut your laminate fairly close to finished size and make sure you have a helper or a good way to accurately register it to the substrate. You can use long dowels to hold the laminate in position over the substrate and pull them out one by one as you lay the piece- you only get one shot at it. If you do have a big overhang, support the falloff to avoid tearing. Move the router along at a moderate, steady rate. You may need to clean up the bearing and any excess glue with acetone or lacquer thinner.
Thank you...should I also get the elongated base for the router to prevent [operator caused] tilting?

[Kevin Jenness]

Thank you...should I also get the elongated base for the router to prevent [operator caused] tilting?

It won't hurt, but it's not necessary. Just keep the downward force of your grip over the substrate instead of thin air. I sometimes have one hand on the router barrel and one on the base, but you need to keep your fingers clear of the cutter and a wide base could make that easier.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I noticed the few times I trimmed laminate that anything but a smooth stroke increased the chances of chipping.
My uneducated guess would be that it "isn't the arrow, it's the Indian" applies here - as in the more you do it, the better your technique will be.


** I know there are ready made T-Track table tops out there, but none of them fill my needs/application.
(and besides I really want to try this :)... flush trimming laminate can be used for a lot of things)Having said above what I said, let me add that - shop jigs and fixtures, as well as things that will live in a basement or laundry room, are great for ironing out stuff.
Even places that aren't seen, like the back of a cabinet that goes against a wall - can be a great canvas to work on perfecting that method of putting on a finish that doesn't leave brush strokes.

On the hardware part of the question - Whiteside, Freud, , Southeast Tool, Yonico /- Ryobi and last but certainly least - Temu & Harbor Freight - - in that order are what I use.

[Steve Engelschall]

I've done a lot of flush trimming on WilsonArt laminate and it has never chipped on me. It doesn't seem very chip-prone. Used a Freud flush trim bit in a compact router.

[Patty Hann]

I noticed the few times I trimmed laminate that anything but a smooth stroke increased the chances of chipping.
My uneducated guess would be that it "isn't the arrow, it's the Indian" applies here - as in the more you do it, the better your technique will be.

Having said above what I said, let me add that - shop jigs and fixtures, as well as things that will live in a basement or laundry room, are great for ironing out stuff.
Even places that aren't seen, like the back of a cabinet that goes against a wall - can be a great canvas to work on perfecting that method of putting on a finish that doesn't leave brush strokes.

On the hardware part of the question - Whiteside, Freud, , Southeast Tool, Yonico /- Ryobi and last but certainly least - Temu & Harbor Freight - - in that order are what I use.

Thank you.... yes shop fixtures and furniture are where I practice ... a lot.
My classmates in WW class (at the local JC) give me a hard time about getting things square and straight and "Just right", even to applying polycoat (no nibs allowed :D).
"It's only shop furniture!" they keep telling me.

My reply is 1) It's where I get a lot of practice, (as in: hmmm.,.. that didn't turn out so well....I guess I'll try something different next time), and
2) Yeah, it's only shop furniture, but it's my shop furniture, and something in me always tries to get a thing perfect.
Can't say I succeed all the time or even most of the time, but still it's the old "A man's reach should exceed his grasp."

I'm a Whiteside fan, fer sure, fer sure. Got lots of them (just no flush trim bits)

[Grant Wilkinson]

The Wilson Art site has advice on bits to use, along with speeds and feed rates. They seem to vary a bit depending on which of their products you are using. Generally, though, they say to use the largest diameter bit that you can and keep the overhang to a minimum. You can read more specific advice by choosing the docs related to the laminate that you are using.

[Patty Hann]

The Wilson Art site has advice on bits to use, along with speeds and feed rates. They seem to vary a bit depending on which of their products you are using. Generally, though, they say to use the largest diameter bit that you can and keep the overhang to a minimum. You can read more specific advice by choosing the docs related to the laminate that you are using.

Thank you..,.didn't know about the W-A site with advice on cutting (but I did see the section on adhesives and cementing the laminate to the substrate)

[John Kananis]

I prefer the solid cutters, without bearing for laminate. The plain old bottom bearing straight bits works just fine too but they gums up with adhesive. Fyi, put a little Vaseline on the edge (which should already be laminated if you're doing the top. And finish by running a file along the entire edge (once it's trimmed).

[Jim Becker]

John do you mean the edge tooling that has a small brass "extension" at the bottom that effectively acts like a flush bearing?

[John Kananis]

No, the one with a little notch cut into the shaft, which does to cutting. I'll try and find a pic. I found one, like this.
https://www.rockler.com/freud-64-100-solid-carbide-flush-trim-bit-1-4-dia-x-3-8h-1-4-shank?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=Cj0KCQiAx6ugBhCcARIsAGNmMbh3qLoJNo340TjGyFJu rXqwnBe5u-MsDUTcT8rXPNYD2FYXAoTEJ1EaAuScEALw_wcB

[Patty Hann]

John do you mean the edge tooling that has a small brass "extension" at the bottom that effectively acts like a flush bearing?
Jim...in my original post I was talking about what John posted a pic of (solid guide). But I have seen bits with the little brass "pilot" on the end.
Whiteside (among others) makes them ... I have two roundover bits like that #1980 and #1982

497357

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Very timely thread. Any additional tips or advice if using a solid surface (Corian type) material?

[glenn bradley]

@Patty - I left solid guide pins behind back in high school. The friction of a 30k RPM bit is just too much for anything but a bearing IMHO. I agree that a teardrop base can be helpful in avoiding operator induced boo-boos. I made this one for my Bosch Colt in about an hour total.

497364

Of course I already happened to have the plastic on hand.

Those folks that have done thousands of lineal feet of one-handed trim router work forget that we are all not as experienced. The chipping I can only attribute to poor control of the router, poor bit choice, or poor materials. If the material is good quality, the bit is sharp, and you have control of your tool . . . all should be well. Good luck and keep on truckin'.

[Michael Burnside]

Grabbing a Diablo bit at your local HD and using it on 40 or 50 linear feet should work fine, but that bit won't last. There's nothing magical except you need a very sharp bit and don't be afraid to throw the bit away or demote it to less critical tasks when you're done.

[Jim Becker]

Very timely thread. Any additional tips or advice if using a solid surface (Corian type) material?
Solid surface can be milled in exactly the same way you would if it was wood. You don't have the "cut through" pitfalls that laminate brings to the table.

[James Pallas]

Straight carbide, Crisco as lubricant if running against laminate. Sharp single cut file with one safe edge, for corners. Cut miles of it, in shop and field. Regular router base or laminate trimmer.
Jim

[Patty Hann]

@Patty - I left solid guide pins behind back in high school. The friction of a 30k RPM bit is just too much for anything but a bearing IMHO. I agree that a teardrop base can be helpful in avoiding operator induced boo-boos. I made this one for my Bosch Colt in about an hour total.

497364

Of course I already happened to have the plastic on hand.

Those folks that have done thousands of lineal feet of one-handed trim router work forget that we are all not as experienced. The chipping I can only attribute to poor control of the router, poor bit choice, or poor materials. If the material is good quality, the bit is sharp, and you have control of your tool . . . all should be well. Good luck and keep on truckin'.

Thank you Glenn ... you understand about some us lacking experience doing something that others can do in their sleep.
Pretty sure I can make the teardrop base.
(And thank you for the vote of confidence too :))

[andy bessette]

Tips:

It is generally far easier to present the substrate to the laminate, as otherwise the laminate tends to sag and grab before you have sufficient alignment.

Don't overcomplicate the flush trim bits. Use sharp ball bearing 2 straight flute carbide cutters. Mine are made by Ocemco; cutters and bearings are replaceable.

Bearings gum up, especially if you insist on trimming the edge immediately after laminating, without giving the contact cement sufficient time to dry. I regularly scrape off the built up adhesive using a single-edge razor blade. Then a bit of acetone if needed.

When you have to allow a large laminate overhang, use a track saw to first remove most of the waste prior to routing.

When rolling out the laminate, be careful to not bend the edge of the laminate as that can fracture the laminate, resulting in chipped edges.

I generally give the wood 2 coats and the laminate 1 coat of cement, beginning with the laminate upside down on the substrate.

When trimming the edge it reduces risk of scratching the laminate if you use a top-bearing follower and run the router base on the substrate.

[Tom M King]

I keep two Makita 701 routers with bits for plastic laminate. When I started building houses in the 1970's, all the kitchens had Formica countertops. I still use a lot of it, like in our dogroom. I've done so much of it that I can't even tell you how to trim it, but high speed to the bit, and fairly good moving to the cutting. Don't push hard against the substrate with the bearing. I've never used lubricant, but did clean the bearings with carb cleaner occasionally, and relube them. I don't remember ever having a chipping problem. When we did curved ends, a propane torch was used to warm up the strip going around the corner before applying glue.

I switched to fabricating countertops to Corian in 1982, and did them until late '90's when Granite took over. My specialized solid surface bits have bearing covers made out of solid surface. Regular woodworking bits with bearings will work fine, but will leave some strike-off that has to be dealt with, but are what I use for making shop stuff out of solid surface material.

Whiteside has always been my first choice. They are Whiteside bits in the Makita 701's, and these are the specialized solid surface bits.
https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/collections/solid-surface

[Mel Fulks]

I like “climb cutting”, it works. Insurance companies don’t like climb cutting. Do us all a favor and be careful . I climb cut straight
bit then ‘regular cut’ with angle finish bit.

[Tom M King]

Here is a picture, from our dog room, with a propane torch formed edge banding rounded corner. You will overcook some before you get the feel for the right amount of heat.

I have the angled finishing bit set to leave the slightest little roll of contact cement hanging out, and finish with a Smooth file that smooths out the showing edge and gets rid of the glue.

[Warren Lake]

you put laminate on the top did you put it on the edges before the top? did you put it on the bottom? or at least backer board.

[Patty Hann]

... high speed to the bit, and fairly good moving to the cutting. Don't push hard against the substrate with the bearing. I've never used lubricant, but did clean the bearings with carb cleaner occasionally, and relube them. ...
THank you Tom... good advice.

[Patty Hann]

I like “climb cutting”, it works. Insurance companies don’t like climb cutting. Do us all a favor and be careful . I climb cut straight
bit then ‘regular cut’ with angle finish bit.
Thank you Mel... I did read about climb cutting to trim laminate and watched a video on it.
I might practice it first on scrap setup. I tried a climb cut with a compact Makita once (on wood edge) The way the router behaves kind of takes you by surprise, and not just the first time.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

I switched to fabricating countertops to Corian in 1982, and did them until late '90's when Granite took over. My specialized solid surface bits have bearing covers made out of solid surface. Regular woodworking bits with bearings will work fine, but will leave some strike-off that has to be dealt with, but are what I use for making shop stuff out of solid surface material.

Whiteside has always been my first choice. They are Whiteside bits in the Makita 701's, and these are the specialized solid surface bits.
https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/collections/solid-surface

Thank you. Whiteside is my first choice also so the link is greatly appreciated.

[Patty Hann]

you put laminate on the top did you put it on the edges before the top? did you put it on the bottom? or at least backer board.
Followed you until you mentioned the backer board. Not sure what you meant (I know what a backer board is in general, just not why I would have one and then why put laminate on it.)

OK, about the edge (and someone else mentioned the edge)
The edge around the table is going to be hardwood.
Yes, it will block the ends of the all the tracks... and everyone will no doubt say" You won't be able to slide T-bolts in".
Correct.. I won't be able to insert the T-bolts from the edges.

But there are other ways to get the T-bolts into the tracks, and I've never liked the idea of having to slide them in from the edge.
I want to insert them pretty close to where I will be using them, so I'm going to make it so I can drop them in at an intersection, any intersection.
And there will be more, many more, than 4 intersections.

[Patty Hann]

Tips:

It is generally far easier to present the substrate to the laminate, as otherwise the laminate tends to sag and grab before you have sufficient alignment.

Don't overcomplicate the flush trim bits. Use sharp ball bearing 2 straight flute carbide cutters. Mine are made by Ocemco; cutters and bearings are replaceable.

Bearings gum up, especially if you insist on trimming the edge immediately after laminating, without giving the contact cement sufficient time to dry. I regularly scrape off the built up adhesive using a single-edge razor blade. Then a bit of acetone if needed.

When you have to allow a large laminate overhang, use a track saw to first remove most of the waste prior to routing.

When rolling out the laminate, be careful to not bend the edge of the laminate as that can fracture the laminate, resulting in chipped edges.

I generally give the wood 2 coats and the laminate 1 coat of cement, beginning with the laminate upside down on the substrate.

When trimming the edge it reduces risk of scratching the laminate if you use a top-bearing follower and run the router base on the substrate.

Are you using the terms "wood" and "substrate" interchangeably? if so my substrate is 1" MDF.

So, I would flip the laminate over setting it on the MDF, and apply the cement to it, then lift it off the MDF and set it down ... where? On another very flat surface?
Then I would apply the 2 coats of cement to the MDF, wait for it to "dry" (to the touch) pick up the MDF, flip it over, and drop it onto the laminate? Am I getting this right, or totally wrong?

I wish there were pictures or a video of how to do it this way.
I was planning to set about 4 -5 dowels on the cement coated MDF, set the laminate (w/ the cement already applied) on the dowels, then slide the dowels out one at a time and let the laminate drop onto the MDF.

(Right now I've cemented a smaller piece of laminate--15" x15"---to some 1" MDF, to practice trimming. The 30 x 36 inch piece has yet to be cemented)

[andy bessette]

Are you using the terms "wood" and "substrate" interchangeably? if so my substrate is 1" MDF.

So, I would flip the laminate over setting it on the MDF, and apply the cement to it, then lift it off the MDF and set it down ... where? On another very flat surface?
Then I would apply the 2 coats of cement to the MDF, wait for it to "dry" (to the touch) pick up the MDF, flip it over, and drop it onto the laminate? Am I getting this right, or totally wrong?...

That is correct.

[Mel Fulks]

Patty ,one thing that will help is to make , or buy , a large router base with a knob on an elongated base . Then you can clear your
mind of fear , knowing you will not botch your project, or allow the router to topple over. Think “ Ping Pong “ paddle with router on big
part, and a knob on handle part. SO much easier than wrestling the heavy concoction with no help.

[Richard Coers]

+1 with John. Worked a short while in a commercial shop with lots of laminate work. They used a crayon kind of lube that was rubbed on the edge.

[Patty Hann]

Patty ,one thing that will help is to make , or buy , a large router base with a knob on an elongated base . Then you can clear your
mind of fear , knowing you will not botch your project, or allow the router to topple over. Think “ Ping Pong “ paddle with router on big
part, and a knob on handle part. SO much easier than wrestling the heavy concoction with no help.

Yes Mel... I've pretty much decided on that...even moving from the standard OEM base to the larger diameter one was a great improvement in control.

No more router "Tilt-a-whirl" mistakes


https://youtu.be/X7wzkPJh9ZQ

[andy bessette]

A small laminate trim router is light and handy and needs no special base. My favorite is an old Rockwell.

[Tom M King]

It's not as hard as it sounds. Contact cement won't stick to whatever you use to keep the pieces separated. You just get one chance to get it in place. The main thing is to not put them together until the contact cement is ready. Not when any will come off on anything.

[Patty Hann]

It's not as hard as it sounds. Contact cement won't stick to whatever you use to keep the pieces separated. You just get one chance to get it in place. The main thing is to not put them together until the contact cement is ready. Not when any will come off on anything.
Thank you Tom...Yes, I was reading about the contact cement and did it correctly for the small test piece.
Ready (for joining) is when "dry"...but the mfr (3M etc) defines dry as something along the lines of lay the backs of your fingers on the cement and it shouldn't feel sticky.
But then you also have a limited "work window"...rolling it on, waiting for it to get "not tacky" dry, actually joining it to the substrate..all within (IIRC) something like 30 minutes .

[William Lessenberry]

Doesn't have to do with trimming, but you really need one of these to press the laminate to the substrate. https://www.lowes.com/pd/7-5-in-Plastic-Regular-Paint-Roller-Frame/50301943
BillL

[Mel Fulks]

Contact cement is the standard, widely used stuff. They used to rate its hold as 5 to 7 years, and that’s often too long for those who
are “trendy”. For anyone who does not ever want to change to re-do , plastic resin glue is the ‘right stuff’.

[Tom M King]

I've never used anything but solvent based contact cement, and never had any come loose. Some of the houses I built in the 1970's still have the same Formica countertops in use. Also, so traction carpet on the sides of catamarans done in the '80's still holding, and that's with the boats sitting outside since then.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom, that’s good info. Could be that there was ,or is a government thing about where the stuff could be used, like office space with
people in it. And I’ve seen some sprayed on glue not stuck down in time, and lots of call-backs done by guys who were “highly rated”,
but took lots of ‘smoke breaks’.

[Tom M King]

I tried the water based contact cement whenever it was that they first came out with it, but didn't like it, and never again used anything but solvent based. That's been so long ago that I forget the details.

When I did the last pieces in the dog room, for tall baseboards, I used a short block of typical Spruce 2x4 for pressing it together with one of the rounded corners of the 2x4, and it worked as good as the J-roller that I couldn't find.

[John Kananis]

The water based stuff really is terrible. It just doesn't adhere as well. It takes like 3 coats to get it to the right consistency on the material and I can't imagine it having the longevity of solvent base cement. The Lanco red label variety works best imho, the dap is ok and more readily available, just don't buy the green label version.


I tried the water based contact cement whenever it was that they first came out with it, but didn't like it, and never again used anything but solvent based. That's been so long ago that I forget the details.

When I did the last pieces in the dog room, for tall baseboards, I used a short block of typical Spruce 2x4 for pressing it together with one of the rounded corners of the 2x4, and it worked as good as the J-roller that I couldn't find.