Woodmizer Jointer-planer

[Christopher Charles]

Hi all,

Starting to shop for J/P upgrades and came across this J/P from Woodmizer that doesn't require the tables to be lifted to switch between modes:

https://woodmizer.com/Store/Shop/Planer-Moulder/MP160-Jointer-Planer

Anyone have experience or thoughts?

[Andrew Hughes]

Interesting looking machine.
My first impression the jointer tables are so short.
I would rather have long tables then a wide cutter head.
Good Luck

[Jim Becker]

Woodmiser makes very good machinery for sure. Not inexpensive, however.

That said, I honestly do not necessarily consider not having to move the jointer tables to use the thicknessing function to be a big benefit. Why? Difficult to see the workpiece and the tables may get in the way of material handling for thicknessing, especially for shorter pieces of lumber. Unlike Andrew, I've never been concerned about table length for face and edge jointing because I try really hard to work with the shortest possible material for a given component. Wide is more important to me. But this is purely because of the work I tend to do and other folks have different requirements. That said, this particular machine has shorter tables than some other options for a 300mm/12" wide machine. You'll want to check those other options out, too.

[Michael Burnside]

Interesting, I've never heard of this company either. I would much prefer these over the Hammer options. Like you, I think I'd go nuts switching back and forth, plus it seems like a lot more mechanical nonsense that can get out of whack. With a HH it's pushing 6.5K but that's not bad for two tools if they are of high quality. Like Jim, I wouldn't be too concerned with the wings. In a pinch that isn't something that is terribly difficult to remedy for special cases.

I'm in the market for a new Jointer but this is something I'll have to research too. Thanks for sharing.

[Cameron Wood]

The jointer looks OK, but I would not like how the jointer tables block access to the planer. For shorter stock, you need to get your hands closer than 18", on both ends.
In the promotional video, they also don't show the stooped position to feed the planer- kinda makes my back hurt watching.

There's compromises for every set up, 'tho.

[Dave Roock]

Woodmizer has products like that which are made by Logosol or probably their original supplier it seems - I believe Woodmizer bought the rights out of their original supplier, their moulders & planers have the same numbers as Logosol products had. Woodmizer's site is well worth all checking out - they have an amazing assortment of different machines. That jointer/planer appears very well built, I will keep it in mind.

[Dave Roock]

And up to 16" planing and 12" jointing on that MP 160.

[Jim Becker]

Interesting, I've never heard of this company either..
They are best known as one of the top manufacturers of bandmills for sawing logs. "Most of the time", if you see someone using a bandmill to cut up lumber, it's orange with the Woomizer name on it, including the guy I use. They have been offering complimentary machinery for sometime now; four headed molders, planers, etc. We don't see them much in a place like SMC because they market primarily to sawyers, but that might change over time.

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks all. I am curious as well because I've known about their sawmills for a long time, which have a good reputation. I am curious about the design/build targets and do wonder a bit if the design is aimed at "Timber framing" levels of precision rather than "Furniture" level precision since the model hasn't show up in the forums nor has Woodmizer marketed to the FWW crowd that I've seen (and I do too much looking...).

What I want is a Minimax 16" with spiral, but that's a bit out of reach for now!

[Michael J Evans]

Probably a dumb and OT question but, I couldn't help but look at the rest of the machines and seen the 4 sided planer moulders. I feel like the answer is no. But does a 4 sided planer do the job of a jointer as well?

[Mel Fulks]

I consider the 4 sided planers mainly for square trim , small enough to be straightened by nails.

[Joe Calhoon]

Those machines are made by Moretens, I believe in Sweden. They have some interesting small machines especially their shaper that the head tilts all the way over. Their 4 side and 2 side planers are not straightening planers and would require straight and flat material going in to get good results. There are straightening 4 sliders and moulders but a larger and more expensive animal.
http://moretens.com/en/snickerimaskiner.php

[Kevin Jenness]

The jointing width is 4" less than the planer, apparently to provide for dust collection. That seems a disadvantage compared to typical combi machines with moveable tables.

[Jim Becker]

Probably a dumb and OT question but, I couldn't help but look at the rest of the machines and seen the 4 sided planer moulders. I feel like the answer is no. But does a 4 sided planer do the job of a jointer as well?
Yes and no. The four sided molder does effectively flatten material to my observation from watching some folks use it to produce flooring and things like shiplap, but it's not likely to the precision that we prefer for fine woodworking. It's a "one and done" machine...rough, skip planed board in one side, finished board out the other side. Since it's held and guided by rollers, there may be some level of bow remaining in the boards on the outfeed side. That's not really an issue for siding and flooring or even trim pieces because of how they are installed, but it wouldn't be great for building a table apron.

[Dave Roock]

https://woodmizer.com/us/wood-mizer-introduces-4-sided-planermoulders Woodmizer bought the Moretens Company a few years back. There are several other planers/molders they have, some with rip-saw, some with different levels of moulding.

[Alex Zeller]

I worked with a guy who had a Woodmizer band mill. He also has a 4 sided planer (don't know the brand) but it was for making stuff like framing lumber. Think 2x4 type boards. Stuff that being perfectly straight mattered less that the time needed to do all 4 sides of a board. I asked him about hardwood and he said he rarely touched it. I have noticed around here that most mills only do softwood even though there's more hardwood than softwood trees around here.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ does a 4 sided planer do the job of a jointer as well?

Not in the way you are probably thinking. As noted in other comments, there is a finished quality issue at play. At one of the many wood-related stops in my misspent youth, I worked at a place who had one part of the operation running a lot of molders.

If you want to run, say, rough-sawn, kiln-dried 4/4 wood into 1 x 6 boards with a finish acceptable for furniture, the molder has to have a minimum of 6 heads. You have to take the top and bottom to finished in 2 steps - get it hogged off to pretty close, then put the final surface on with the second station. Like a scrub-plane + jack + jointer combined [the molder does flat very well], followed by a smoother.

Big-time t&g flooring is run at 600 - 1,000 feet per minute on a 12+ head molder. Gotta take smaller bites at Warp 6. The arrangement of the side heads in the machine is also critical, as it the sequencing of top and bottom.

The hilarious part of all this is that the waste steam management [dust and chips] costs as much or more than the molders. Imagine the waste volume running 4/4 x 8" at 150 LFPM. You ain't blowing this into a 55 gal drum with a 3 HP cyclone.

But I digress.............

[Jim Becker]

The hilarious part of all this is that the waste steam management [dust and chips] costs as much or more than the molders. Imagine the waste volume running 4/4 x 8" at 150 LFPM. You ain't blowing this into a 55 gal drum with a 3 HP cyclone.

But I digress.............

Matt Cremona on the 'Tube just learned that directly...he borrowed an almost unused Woodmizer four head molder to run the oak flooring for their kitchen project and it produced barrels and barrels and barrels of dust/chips. Like a mountain of the stuff. They need a capable collector, too, because there's four separate connections that have to be serviced simultaniously.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim - exactly. Gen pop has no idea of the scale of what it takes. In the pro leagues, the waste stream exits a monster cyclone through a monster rotary airlock into an open-top trailer. There is an auger leveling system that pulls the peak of the waste pile to the back of the trailer, filling it up. The fan to pull the waste to the cyclone is driven by a 100 - 200 hp motor. Or more.

But - you cannot turn off the production operation to switch trailers - so there is another trailer parallel to the first, and the stream is diverted there and you swap out the full first trailer. And you gotta have a truck ready on the spot to do the swap before the 2d trailer overflows.

I buried the lede - sorry. Strolling into wood processing facilities as a consulting wiseguy for productivity improvement, I can't remember how many machines were limping along only because they couldn't pull the waste stream fast enough to run the machine at speed. Spent the big bucks on the machine, but short-changed the dust system.

[Jim Becker]

True for the big industrial setups, but I point was that the Wood Mizer four head molding machine, which is a modest ~$20K machine with commensurate throughput designed for a one person operation, still has significant dust collection requirements. Cermona was doing the work himself and his Clearvue cyclone was filling the 55 gallon bin every few boards of that oak flooring! Nathan of "Out of the Woods" on the 'Tube just uses a large blower and, um...blows...all the chips from his Wood Mizer four head machine outside where it scatters behind the shop.

[Richard Coers]

Woodmizer doesn't have anything to do with the manufacturing do they? When they started selling moulding machines, they were made in Europe. Pretty sure they have the manufacturer add their sticker on the machine. Looks like they bought the European company. https://woodmizer.com/us/wood-mizer-introduces-4-sided-planermoulders

[Joe Calhoon]

I would disagree that a S4S machine is not good for fine work. I use one daily in my work. The industrial ones like my Martin T 90 and the Weining Cube have straightening tables and fences that act in the same way as a jointer with a power feeder. These machines do require heavy electrical and dust collection setups. In the case of the Moretens machine you would need one flat face and edge to get good results since they are non straightening. Not for ever shop but I’m sure some could benefit from this type machine.

[Jim Becker]

As an aside and since the Wood Mizer 4 head molder came up in discussion, this new video from Matt Cremona has a short "guided tour" at the beginning of the machine which can be helpful in seeing how things are arranged in the machine. After the jointer work post-introduction, there's more time spend on the molder setup. The rest of the video is mostly about making the flooring but certain features the machine setup and use, too, if you want to watch for longer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm4g-cK3Xo0