Newbie cutting Mesquite end grain

[Larry Lilly]

I was turning my first piece after about 15 years off from lathe work, making a turned covered box out of a mesquite log. The box, now finished on the outside at 2-1/2 inch diameter, has stopped me cold when it came time to cut out the insides.

Question is, my very limited tool inventory is mainly for bowls, I have one side scraper for making bottoms sqaure and flat, but otherwise, bowl gouges, dome scraper, parting tool.

I know, I need lots more tols, but the question is on this project, which tool would be best suited for this? A fingernail spindle gouge? Something that would allow me to bore the center out, then turn to width?

I tried using the dome scraper, but at 1/2 inch, it was too wide for the and never dug in.

I have read about termite tools, and will pass on those right now, but this end grain is eating my lunch.

[Corey Hallagan]

Never done it myself but from what I have read, you should use a spindle gouge and drill in with it clearing chips often down to the appropriate depth, then use your gouge to come in from the inside rim and turn it down to close to final diameter and then use your scraper to finish it up. That's what the books and video's say anyway :)

Corey

[Larry Lilly]

Well, I was watching a video, and that is what they used. So I took that opportunity to explain to SWMBO that ANOTHER tool will be required. (This before the end of the week since getting my Jet 1442 lathe)

Turning = $$$$$black hole

LOL

[Gary Max]

Larry welcome to the creek. Hope you got a camera to take pics of all the fine items you will be turning out.
As small as your project is---if you only remove a small amount of material at a time you can hollow that out with a parting tool. Start where you want the outside wall at and work your way to the center. Heck if you only take a 1/4 inch at a time you will be able to hollow that out in a couple of passes.

[Michael Stafford]

Larry, the one good thing about turning is there is always something to spend your money on. :p ;)

By far the easist way is to turn the inside with a fingernail ground spindle or detail gouge with the bevel shortened. You can drill out the center to depth as Corey mentioned and then turn from the center out and get your basic width. Then you can square up the sides and bottom with a square scraper. You can drill out the center and use a square scaper in incremental cuts to hollow it out but that is much harder. I prefer the gouge method.

Mesquite turns nicely and will make a pretty box. Post it when you are done.

[Jim Becker]

What Mike and the others are explaining is how to use a spindle gouge more as a hollowing scraper than a gouge which is appropriate for hollowing end grain. A bowl gouge will give you fits because when you work end-grain you work from the center out, rather than from out to in like you do on a face-plate turning...quite hard to do with a bowl gouge!

[Michael Stafford]

Larry, what I am trying to describe is the technique that I learned from Richard Raffan's book "Turned Boxes" where the gouge is used as a cutting tool. There is no scraping involved with the gouge at all. I use scrapers for scraping. The gouge when used properly will peel nice long continuous shavings when you are hollowing the inside of boxes. Not only does it hollow quickly it results in clean surfaces if done properly. More than any one thing my improved use of the gouge, spindle or detail for hollowing boxes has improved my box turning efforts.

[Jim Becker]

Well...scrapers don't really "scrape". They actually cut which is why you get shavings from them, but with a very fine edge. The nature of the spindle gouge in this particular technique essentially does the same thing, but a lot more agressively. And because you have a long edge due to the fingernail, you get a very nice shear cutting effect, too, which makes for the glass-smooth surface. There is a LOT going on here! ;)

[John Hart]

Hi Larry!...Welcome to the Creek! I'm one of those people who uses a scraper.:o I even use it to do the initial bore and recently did a mesquite HF using that technique. I'm not really qualified to lend much assistance but I'd like to see a picture of your approach...and maybe a picture of the cutting edge of your round-nose scraper.

[Curt Fuller]

I do my hollowing with a round nose scraper. It's probably wrong but being self taught it's how I taught myself. I drill a center hole for depth, and then scrape from the inside out. Keep a good burr on the scraper and it cuts endgrain pretty nice.
Using the gouge techniques mentioned above requires a lot of practice I would guess, along with some sharpening techniques that are also an acquired skill.
Getting your wife to understand that the visa card is one of the most important turning tools is also an acquired skill that sometimes requires some serious trade offs.

[Glenn Hodges]

Larry, I bore a hole with a drill bit or a bowl gouge, and then use a bowl gouge with a celtic type grind on it, I pull it back toward me against the side of the box. I was recently shown a tool that was a modified bottom scraper with the left side ground so it could be used on the side of a box. The guy said it was very useful in getting a straight side on a box. I think I will make me one.

[Ron McKinley]

I've been working on an end-grain screwbean mesquite bowl for several weeks and am getting weary. That's the toughest wood I've ever tried to turn! I've turned two face-grain bowls from the same tree with no problems but the end-grain is beating me down. I use a round-nose scraper and am getting catch after catch. I got an S-shaped tool rest thinking that would help but still have the same problems. It's come out of the scroll chuck at least ten times now and I'm about to lose the spigot. Good luck with yours......Ron

[Andy Hoyt]

I've always pretty much done what Glenn describes. And with respect to the tool that he refers to - consider this.....

A while back Mike Stafford posted a box (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=277464#post277464) he made and during the discussion I mentioned two tools I'd seen in a video by Ray Key.

Well, I bought both and here they are. Unfortunately I've been into a mess of commissioned spindle work so I have not yet had a chance to try them. As soon as I do, I'll report back

30593

[Larry Lilly]

When using the scraper to cut the initial center hole, I assume that you have to have the cutting edge above and to the left of center when you do that correct?

Perhaps I should try to angle the tool with the handle end pointing to the 5 o'clock position with the tip at the 10 o'clock position as viewed from the tailstock end of the lathe.

I will persist, but then, Rockler opens at noon or so today LOL

I will report back later, thanks!

[Jim Becker]

I do my hollowing with a round nose scraper. It's probably wrong but being self taught it's how I taught myself.

There is really no "wrong" way to do anything like this...there are just different ways, some more efficient, but all valid if they cut out the material as intended.
---

By example, several folks have mentioned drilling a hole for depth. Perfectly valid, especially when depth is critical for something. I did that, too, for a long time, but have eliminated that step for the most part. I just measure depth as I go and cut out a little more when necessary. I will say that if I were doing production work where time is more important, I'd still be drilling the depth hole to save a little bit of effort along the way. Both ways are valid and work.

[Larry Lilly]

I sat down, read the literature in the catalog, saw where I was doing something wrong, and re-tried. I was able in short time to complete the box, both top and bottom.

The wierd thing was that when cutting the bottom to fit the top, it was a tad loose, like maybe by 1/64 inch. It just didnt "pop" when you pulled it apart. OK I thought, not a bad start. So then I finished the top and bottom, sanded them baby butt smooth, but after sanding, now I have to push firmly to close the box, and getting it apart is tough. The wood is I still think "wet". The two pieces were left on the catalog, and later that afternoon, the paper showed signs of expanding from moisture.
I dunked it in watco natural oil for 5 minutes, then buffed it dry.

But the pieces wont close easily.

But I was satisfied with the first turning after 13 odd years from it. Next time i will use dry wood, and safe my mesquite logs for a time to dry out.


I dont feel there is anything to show pictures wise, it was just a small lidded box, and I cant show it closed.

[Curt Fuller]

There is really no "wrong" way to do anything like this...there are just different ways, some more efficient, but all valid if they cut out the material as intended.
---

By example, several folks have mentioned drilling a hole for depth. Perfectly valid, especially when depth is critical for something. I did that, too, for a long time, but have eliminated that step for the most part. I just measure depth as I go and cut out a little more when necessary. I will say that if I were doing production work where time is more important, I'd still be drilling the depth hole to save a little bit of effort along the way. Both ways are valid and work.

I suppose the hole drilling is as much for a depth guide as it is for a starting point for the scraper. It's just one of those things I do that I really never have given a lot of thought to. If you really wanted to speed things up and cut down on the turning you could stick a 2" forstner bit in a jacobs chuck in your tailstock. But that would take a lot of the fun out of it. So far, the fun is the whole reason I do it.