New router table and Incra TS LS questions

[Greg Parrish]

I’m super excited to have another router setup finally. I picked up a sawstop in-line router table, a Woodpeckers Spinrite motor and have an Incra Mast-R-Lift coming next week. I mounted the table to the left of my blade based on my tool layout and it fits nicely there and seems super stable. I also discovered that I can get the motor cover open if ever needed by pulling the hinge pin out.

Now to the question, I am very intrigued by the Incra TS LS system to serve the table saw and router. I’ve figured out how the folding outfeed table can still be mounted, but I also have the floating overarm dust pickup and it is mounted about the center of the right end of the table. Has anyone modified this to still allow the Incra positioned to clear it?

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And yes, I know it’s too clean. Can’t help myself for cleaning after each use since it’s a shared space for other family uses. :)

[Mike Wilkins]

I was looking at the Stumpy Nubs YouTube video earlier today-he has his over-arm support bracket bolted to the rear fence rail. This clears the table surface and may allow you to mount the Incra-Jig as normal.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Mike. He has the Harvey alpha saw and their over blade collector does mount on the back. Not sure if the sawstop could do the same. I’m starting to think about suspending it from the ceiling now that I’m not moving the saw and have it in a fixed position, but still exploring options.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Greg

I recently posted my modification, where the router fence is now connected to the tablesaw fence ..

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?302253-Upgraded-Router-Table-fence-on-Hammer-K3

This provides micro adjustability for the router table as well as reference positioning using a Wixey. Perhaps some ideas there for you?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Derek. I saw your post on your carriage mod, but hadn’t seen the router one. That’s pretty much what I hoped to accomplish using the Incra TS LS system for both saw and router. The ability to have precise settings, precise adjustability and the ease of returning to an exact setting. The sawstop saw fence works and I’m sure the sawstop router fence will also work, but the bump into position method, even with a Wixey, leaves something to be desired in many cases. Anyway, I’m still exploring the idea but now that I have the in-line router table, it is becoming more appealing.

[Jim Becker]

Bent's Woodworking on the 'Tube recently did some video about integrating the Incra system with a Sawstop and there were a few minor, but solvable gotchas. Well worth taking the time to watch before you jump in as it may change what you order.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Jim. I’ve seen a video or two where someone worked out a few of the issues. Don’t remember who but I’ll search for that channel and watch it.

[Jim Becker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeaTeksLvbw

[Jack Frederick]

Greg, I’ve had the SSRT for some time now and have liked it a great deal. Mine is mounted to the Rt. I have found that I do not need the SS legs on mine. It has stayed lined up with no problems. I do check it on occasion to make sure. You say that youy are not moving the machine now, but not kicking those legs would be nice.

[Greg Parrish]

Greg, I’ve had the SSRT for some time now and have liked it a great deal. Mine is mounted to the Rt. I have found that I do not need the SS legs on mine. It has stayed lined up with no problems. I do check it on occasion to make sure. You say that youy are not moving the machine now, but not kicking those legs would be nice.

Jack, I certainly do not like those legs but can see flex in the table with pressure/weight applied without the legs fully touching the ground. I have been thinking of making my own legs that angle back to the ICS mobile base instead of the floor. I’ve seen some similar to that on the sliding table so I know it can probably be done with a little effort. However, if I do switch to the Incra rails, I’ll go with the longer set and pull them down alongside the router table as well. Should give some support that way.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Jim. His videos were the ones I had previously watched. He does a great job of talking through the issues of adapting the system to Sawstop, but the one area he didn’t touch on was the floating overarm dust pickup. If I go for this rail, I’ll probably have to just ceiling mount it with a custom bracket/arm. I had a similar setup on my prior felder slider. Just means you can’t move the saw once its setup without relocating the ceiling mount too.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeaTeksLvbw

[Jim Becker]

I don't think he has the overarm. Jason also just ordered a Hammer slider to replace the SS and has already sold off the Incra setup, AFAIK. But yes, the video included both the high points and the gotchas. I like his videos because even if something was provided by a manufacturer, he pulls no punches and calls things honestly. I'm looking forward to more content from him as he recently retired from the military and can focus on his content creation business and other things. Not having to move again suddenly will help with that...it's been like three shop build in a small number of years for him!!

[Keegan Shields]

I’m curious why anyone would need the features of the Incra TS fence system? Perhaps if you are working off detailed plans with precise measurements?

I can’t think of many times I needed to reset a table saw fence to a precise adjustment. Maybe a fine adjustment on a router table would be nice, but there are many other solutions that are smaller and cheaper.

Just curious what I might be missing.

[Jim Becker]

Some folks just plain like it. (I use the rack and pinion fine adjustment on my slider's rip fence more than I ever expected, honestly)

[Derek Cohen]

I’m curious why anyone would need the features of the Incra TS fence system? Perhaps if you are working off detailed plans with precise measurements?

I can’t think of many times I needed to reset a table saw fence to a precise adjustment. Maybe a fine adjustment on a router table would be nice, but there are many other solutions that are smaller and cheaper.

Just curious what I might be missing.

Keegan, I don’t have (and likely will never own) an Incra fence adjuster. It just doesn’t fit my equipment, and I think it takes up too much space. However, I modified my router table to utilise the micro-adjuster of the rip fence on my slider, so there is a similarity. Why I did this is that micro details in set up can make a difference with moldings. This is especially so when router bits are used as if they are combination bits - set them slightly differently, and you get a different profile.

This is the rational for my set up. No doubt others just like having the feature without understanding its purpose.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ChrisA Edwards]

I've had the Incra LS Positioner on my Sawstop for about 4 years.

I just love being able to set it precisely, using the scale, every time without nudging the fence and measuring it. The Sawstop fence was nice, but I'd never go back to it.


And I have used the micro adjuster, several times, to creep up on getting a precise fit.

It just plain works.

I didn't run into the issues that Jim Bents video shows, although I purchased the Incra legs and Router table insert when I bought my setup.

[Keegan Shields]

Thanks Derek. For sure a micro adjust on the router table can come in handy. Might be nice for sliding dovetails, etc.

The whole fence system strikes me as an engineering solution with no problem to solve. But I thought maybe others are using the Incra fence for woodworking tasks I don’t perform or hadn’t thought of. Just curious.

[Greg Parrish]

Since I don’t yet have the incra system, I waited to see if anyone else would answer your question. That said, for my the appeal is the ease in repeatability of cuts, the ability to have a single fence for both router and table saw given my in-line mounting of my router table, and the ability to micro adjust. I see the micro adjust being the most beneficial aspect and could see using it for tenon and dado sizing/fitting, cutting on the router table when you don’t have the exact size bit needed, etc. The other feature is the ability to do box joints and what not without needed the separate jig. Anyway, I haven’t committed to it yet but am thinking about it as my next shop upgrade.

[Keegan Shields]

Thanks Greg. I’m curious to see what you think. My Grizzly sliding table saw has a very rudimentary rip fence, and I’ve often thought about upgrading it. Going with the 32” Incra setup is one possibility.

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Greg,

I had the Incra TS on a PM saw for about 10 years with a router table built into the left wing. The Incra system had all the positives that have been mentioned. But it takes up a huge chunk of real estate both on the table saw and to the left side of the fence and was a bit of a pain to switch back and forth because the whole assembly needs to be moved or flip when switching from TS to routing.

I kept for a while when I got a sawstop it thinking I would put in on the SS, but in the end sold it and haven't looked back.

That said, I most use hand tools and don't do many box joints, so the advantages didn't outweigh the negatives. I found it was great as a router fence, but moved to separate table where I plan to add a microadjust to the fence. I am curious about the woodpeckers system that allows return to a specific dimension and some microadjust to the TS fence, but that's pretty low priority for me.

Good luck!

[Greg Parrish]

Christopher, thanks for the feedback. I looked at the Woodpeckers rip-flip fence stops. They look like they do offer some micro adjust but it would be without any way to know the exact change or measurement. Wonder if you can mount their system along with a Wixie at the same time. That is one of the niceties of the Incra approach in that you know the exact amount of movement for each click of the wheel and you know the fence locks in at 1/32" increments. The woodpeckers approach would still involve the bump and move approach along with longer setup. No right or wrong way I guess, just in the videos and in concept the Incra certainly looks appealing. I'm in no hurry to jump in though so I'm still watching from the sidelines. LOL

[ChrisA Edwards]

I converted my Incra from Imperial to Metric as part of my 2020 New Years Resolution.

Nice thing is, with the ability to mount several different scales on the positioner arm, I still have an Imperial ruler there, so I can use that for rough cuts, within a mm, should I need to.

[Greg Parrish]

I'm still mulling this one over and haven't jumped in yet, but I've been thinking more and more about it through a couple of project recently. The ease of dialing in the fence is what is still catching my eye. Also the idea of using the same system for both the saw and then the left side mounted router is appealing.

Looks like I'll have to remove the floating overarm collection, so I'm wondering if there is much of a market for the over arm collection and the t-glide fence system if I take the plunge. Wouldn't see a need in keeping them. Also wondering if I picked up the splitter mounted dust guard, would it be better to run it from a Festool shop vac separately than the 4" lower port, or does splitting that lower port really work? I'm thinking I could use my Festool Midi there for better lower and upper collection.

I'm also thinking I would need the 52" version to have enough rail to reach down to the router table. If I'm thinking of this correctly, it would allow me to slide the fence down to the router but also give me some coverage out to the 36" or more range for the saw. I could always cut the rails down to fit if needed also since I'm tight on space.

Lastly, it looks like I'd need to order an extra 4 or 5 sets of brackets to support the filler table and the rear folding outfeed tables. I'd do the legs for the right side but I'm thinking the saw stop legs on both ends might be able to be adapted if needed.

[Greg Parrish]

Over the last 7 days, I decided to go for the new fence and a few other workshop changes.

To prepare, I removed and sold my Sawstop Floating Overarm Dust Blade Guard setup. To my surprise, it sold within an hour of listing for a negotiated price of $300. I really was shocked as there are two others within a 250 mile radius that have been sitting for a while in much larger cities with prices of $250 and $350.

Also, to further help fund it and offset the cost, I also sold 6 or 7 Lie Nielsen items that were not getting used due to alternative options on hand.

Lastly, I ordered the standard dust collection blade guard from Sawstop. My PCS is a 1.75HP version and they don’t come with the dust pickup blade guard. Ugh. Part of my problem with the new shop has been lack of adequate dust collector capacity to handle both the saw cabinet and the 4” overarm floating blade guard. The Oneida Mini Gorilla is rated around 650CFM at 10’ which is only good for one tool realistically. However, it also proved its value with this shop rearrange because I didn’t have a million hard lines strapped to the ceiling to reconfigure which made the process much easier.

With the above items done I started the process this weekend of changing my shop layout. I set out to gain a few things including the ability to get my new workbench away from the wall, and to not loose any open floor space if possible. By getting a little creative, I managed to change up my layout and accomplish my goal.

Today, after talking with Incra briefly, I pulled the trigger and placed my order for the 52” TS-LS setup. My plan is to leave the router table in the left wing, but also I’m doing this with the knowledge that I can always replace or cut the rails if I absolutely need to compact space and move the router over to the right wing. I’m going to be using a 7M long, 32mm Festool vac hose to my Midi with Cyclone to handle the over blade collection, which honestly should result in better dust pickup since the cabinet can now get the full Onieda air flow run to it. By using the 7M long hose, I can route the hose across the ceiling to a specific spot that the vac will plug into during table saw use, but then I can move the vac around to other stations using other hoses for multiple roles.

One last note, I also decided it was time to move to 3HP. Rather than replacing saws, I ordered the 3hp motor, gas shock and control switch box from Sawstop parts. This should be a big improvement given the fact that I’ve bogged my 1.75hp saw down over 25 times now resulting in the circuit breaker popping. Happens during cutting 2” thick white oak and similar hard woods. I miss the power of my prior PM66 and Felder saws.

I ordered a few extra pairs of brackets for the Incra rails but only enough to hold the router table and the filler table. I decided to part ways with the folding outfeed table so that saved on two pairs of brackets by itself. I’ve found that I prefer having the Kreg ACS table serving as my outfeed because it can serve multi roles where the folding outfeed table ins’t good for much other than outfeed.

Sorry for the long post. Lots of changes in flux but should give me a little shop upgrade in the not too distant future.