Considering shortening the rails on my table saw

[Bob Riefer]

Background info:

I presently can cut up to about 50" to the right of the blade on my cabinet / table saw, and have used the space between the rails to hold a router table.
My current outfeed table is far too large for current usage. Once upon a time, I needed this as an extra assembly area, but have since added dedicated space elsewhere in my shop, so the outfeed is oversized for current needs.
I can only access the router table from the front side of the table saw given space restrictions and other fixtures in the space, and I find this uncomfortable... meaning, I avoid using the router table in most cases.
Additionally, this 1/2 of my main shop space becomes narrow once the table saw, the above mentioned restriction, and the jointer on the left of saw are all considered. I manage it, but notice it.


Looks like this today (older pic, but configuration is similar):

496286

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Table saw usage:
I use the table saw about 60-75% for ripping (or similar), and for this operation I almost never need the capacity to the right of the blade. When it's a much wider cut, I typically use the track saw as it's easier to manage safely/accurately for me.

The remaining usage is crosscutting for perfectly square cuts. I do presently use the capacity to the right of the blade for these cuts as it's convenient to reference from the TS fence... but I could envision working to the left of the blade for these cuts instead.


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Thoughts:

Remove the router table from the TS assembly
Cut the TS rails shorter so the TS & Jointer can shift to the right
Streamline the outfeed table
Figure out a spot (now that the space is roomier) for a stand alone router table



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Questions:

Do you think I will regret reducing capacity to right of blade?
If I do reduce, how much capacity would you recommend keeping?
Would you agree that a router table that is more easily accessed will likely lead to me using it on more operations?



Thanks all!

[John Kananis]

David Marks uses a router table in exactly that setup, even though he has plenty of room to do it otherwise. That said, I don't think I could get used to that. I've always preferred a dedicated router table - I don't use the whole 52 inches to the right on my saw but it's really nice to have for support, layout, extra space to work on, etc. Imho, take the router out of the saw, or better yet, leave it in there and build a dedicated table as well so you can work on stuff like rails and stiles at the same time without having to change bits, height, etc.

[Richard Coers]

Background info:

I presently can cut up to about 50" to the right of the blade on my cabinet / table saw, and have used the space between the rails to hold a router table.
My current outfeed table is far too large for current usage. Once upon a time, I needed this as an extra assembly area, but have since added dedicated space elsewhere in my shop, so the outfeed is oversized for current needs.
I can only access the router table from the front side of the table saw given space restrictions and other fixtures in the space, and I find this uncomfortable... meaning, I avoid using the router table in most cases.
Additionally, this 1/2 of my main shop space becomes narrow once the table saw, the above mentioned restriction, and the jointer on the left of saw are all considered. I manage it, but notice it.


Looks like this today (older pic, but configuration is similar):

496286

------

Table saw usage:
I use the table saw about 60-75% for ripping (or similar), and for this operation I almost never need the capacity to the right of the blade. When it's a much wider cut, I typically use the track saw as it's easier to manage safely/accurately for me.

The remaining usage is crosscutting for perfectly square cuts. I do presently use the capacity to the right of the blade for these cuts as it's convenient to reference from the TS fence... but I could envision working to the left of the blade for these cuts instead.


-----------

Thoughts:

Remove the router table from the TS assembly
Cut the TS rails shorter so the TS & Jointer can shift to the right
Streamline the outfeed table
Figure out a spot (now that the space is roomier) for a stand alone router table



---------

Questions:

Do you think I will regret reducing capacity to right of blade?
If I do reduce, how much capacity would you recommend keeping?
Would you agree that a router table that is more easily accessed will likely lead to me using it on more operations?



Thanks all!
This is a very common question in this forum. A quick search will yield a lot of info. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?280086-Cutting-Down-Cabinet-Table-Saw-fence-rails

[Patrick Varley]

I did this, no problems. I think I'm at about a 38" max cut. Anything more than that and I'd probably use a track saw anyway.

For awhile I moved the router table in closer. Still worked, but it was annoying because my saw has an access door that wouldn't open with the router in place. I eventually moved to a separate router table for other reasons, not related to being closer to the saw.

[mike stenson]

I went from a 52" fence to a 30" (these are the lengths for a unifence). Shoved the right side up against the wall, gained a huge amount of space in my shop and never missed the extra inches. I never really found a router table in the extension to be really all that convenient. It saved space, but it was always more ungainly than a separate.

[andy bessette]

The problem is that the router table is very poorly located. Look at the photo of my old shop showing how my router table is located close to the table saw. This allows me to use the Unifence for both router and saw. I would never give up the space to the right of the blade. Just relocate the router and you can move the whole setup to the right, picking up some extra space on the left.

Second photo shows how I retained the same setup in my new shop.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0bfb5B/shop-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://i.postimg.cc/VNbnK2md/IMG-1269.jpg (https://postimg.cc/3yYkRSyT)

[Cameron Wood]

Except for production cabinet shops, much more than 24" rip capacity is pointless, and router mounted on the tablesaw is awkward and limited by the fence rails.Your outfeed table would be much more useful if narrower so you can reach projects from both sides.
If you cut the fence rails down I guess that you'll wish you did it sooner.

[William Hodge]

Instead of cutting the rails, you could buy shorter ones. Someone out there might need longer rails. I would have bought them used instead of new when I needed to cut some wide stuff.

[Jim Becker]

Except for production cabinet shops, much more than 24" rip capacity is pointless

It's not likely really needed for those cabinet shops, either, given it's not really easy to crosscut anything "wide and long" on a cabinet saw. They are going to have sliders, vertical saws or CNC at this point unless they are a very small shop.

Bob, I don't believe there is any issue with you doing what you propose. One suggestion I'll make is rather than cutting down the existing rails, just buy or make shorter front rail and get a piece of angle iron for the rear support that's an appropriate length for the new sizing. In that way, if you eventually sell the machine, the buyer will have the option of "going large" if they prefer. Size things for how you actually use the tool.

As an aside, my slider also has the wide table to the right and it does provide good support when cross cutting a piece of sheet goods up to half its length. I don't need it all that much, but cutting my fence down would be a lot more complicated than with a cabinet saw due to how the "rail" is made...it's a solid round steel bar about 35mm in diameter. I also used to have my router table as part of the "slider island" in the old shop, but have gone to a separate setup because I both have the space and don't really use my router table as much as some folks do because I have the CNC.

[andy bessette]

...much more than 24" rip capacity is pointless...

The cabinet saw is useful for much more than ripping. And so is extra space to the right of the blade.

[Cameron Wood]

The cabinet saw is useful for much more than ripping. And so is extra space to the right of the blade.




I noticed in your old shop picture, that the saw doesn't have the left wing. For me that surface gets used as much as any in the shop- wouldn't want to do without it.

I have a router setup to the side of a jobsite table saw, but it still uses a simple clamp on fence. IME 90% of router table use involves a fence with a cut out for the bit, so using the tablesaw fence you still have to attach something to it, which would have some play since it's not fastened down, and if the fence is in use for routing, the tablesaw is out of use.

I have the unisaw that belonged to the father of a buddy. A shop teacher and woodworker with extensive experience, his set up had 52" rails, and a plywood extension wing with router mounted. The fence has a wood piece attached on the right with a cutout for bits. His shop was roomy, so you could stand behind the saw to feed the router but still it seemed awkward- OK for running bulk material but not great for any precision work. I'm also not enamored with the full bells and whistles router tables, but maybe I would like it if I had one.
I don't really have space for a dedicated set up, & have used a piece of Formica countertop with a router mounted to it for many years- pulling it out as needed.

[andy bessette]

...the saw doesn't have the left wing...
90% of router table use involves a fence with a cut out for the bit, so using the tablesaw fence you still have to attach something to it, which would have some play since it's not fastened down, and if the fence is in use for routing, the tablesaw is out of use...

In place of the left table extension I have a sliding table attachment that has not been needed since I bought my Festool track saw.

By far most of my router table work is done with follower bits, So the instantly removable accessory fence is simply not a problem, especially as I have 2 Unifences and 3 table saws; 1 with rip blade, 1 with combination blade and 1 with dado. This layout, with the table saw-mounted router has proven itself over many decades of use. If I could improve upon it I would do so. The router table I made by repurposing an ancient cast iron table saw top.

[Cameron Wood]

In place of the left table extension I have a sliding table attachment that has not been needed since I bought my Festool track saw.

By far most of my router table work is done with follower bits, So the instantly removable accessory fence is simply not a problem, especially as I have 2 Unifences and 3 table saws; 1 with rip blade, 1 with combination blade and 1 with dado. This layout, with the table saw-mounted router has proven itself over many decades of use. If I could improve upon it I would do so. The router table I made by repurposing an ancient cast iron table saw top.


Yeah, you definitely don't have the issue of tying up the table saw!

Cheers, Jay

[Aaron Inami]

Ok, wild ideas coming.

1. Remove the router table from the saw. Cut down the rails (or see if Grizzly will sell you rails for a G0690 or equivalent - that's the short version of your G0691).
2. Move the saw as far to the right as you can (or desire). It looks like your work table has a section where the rails extend into it. This will give you a ripping capacity somewhere in the 22-29" range (depending on how much you stick the extension table into that slot).
3. Remove the left cast iron extension wing and install a Harvey sliding table (link below). The Harvey actually has pre-drilled holes to bolt onto your G0691. You will have to further cut down the rail on the left side where the cast iron extension wing used to be. This slider will not be as good as a normal big sliding table saw, but once aligned, it will give you repeatable accurate and square cross cuts. The sliding table travel will also assist in ripping up to 48" length. Once I started using my own slider, I will never go back to a normal cabinet saw. Granted, it's an unfair comparison, but this Harvey slider is as close as you are going to get to a smooth sliding cut. You can still use the rip fence (with a sacrificial spacer) as a stopper for doing small cutoffs safely without risk of kickback (like cutting a 1" piece from stock). (It doesn't look like you can slide the fence face back to before the blade like you can with a Delta Unifence).

https://www.harveywoodworking.com/products/compass-st-1500-sliding-table?variant=37784413077687

4. Cut down the width of the outfeed table to match the new width of the saw (taking into account clearance required for the sliding table).
5. Cut down the depth of the outfeed table to maybe half (you still need some sort of outfeed table, but it doesn't have to be long. Probably a good 27-32" outfeed).

6. Maybe see if you can move your jointer to behind the outfeed table (if you can get the jointer fence to angle down and sit under the height of the outfeed).

7 Crazy additional idea. Rebuild the outfeed table to be a router table. Get an easily removable router fence. Run the fence from left-to-ride instead of front-to-back (like it is now). This allows you space and comfort to easily move material across the router bit. Maybe not a good idea depending on how much room you need before and after the router bit.

[Aaron Inami]

Sorry for pushing more links. this presents the sliding table in a good light:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cgr6sIjl1k

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks all! Lots of good information here.

@Cameron, good eye on the pocket in the nearby miter station that can be utilized.... I think that's a low-risk way for me to try these changes without having to cut or buy new rails. I will be able to move the table saw into that pocket (after removing router table) by about 16 additional inches.


That shift, combined with streamlining the outfeed table, will make this side of my shop (including moving around the space) feel much more "open".


I think the belt/disc sander in the background could easily move someplace else in the shop, and a stand alone router station could take its current footprint.

[Jim Becker]

Bob, interestingly, the way I dealt with a "too long fence rail" in my previous shop was to do essentially what you are considering, albeit in a different way based on the local conditions. I had that pesky stairwell, but there was enough space that I could move that slider toward the "wall" after shortening just the table because of the way things were laid out and that extra 16" made a world of difference in the shop for workflow. So if you can physically move the saw to the right without cutting it down by "burying" that end into the cabinet/whatever, the effect is the same.