Long car trip, rent a Tesla for free.

[Bill Dufour]

My wife talked me into renting a Tesla model 3 from Hertz for a 800 mile road trip. Unlimited milage for one week is only $200. A little less with AAA discount. You have to pay to charge it up.
It will cost less to rent then to pay for gas for our SUV.
Bill D

We were going to the LA area but had to cancel. All roads are closed due to snow, ice and rock slides. Maybe in the spring. The hotels from booking.com, with no refunds, refunded our reservations, no problem. Supposedly they refund all the time you just have to ask.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

That is some wild weather you are having! Glad you are not out in it. I wonder if the charging stations are adequate to get from the midwest to the east coast. I will look in to it.

[Bill Dufour]

Several Target stores near our route will add superchargers by summer.
Hertz claims 260 mile range. I would not want to start onto Tehachapi pass in a blizard with under 60% battery in case we got stuck with 3,700 foot rise in elevation. That could use up a lot of energy.
Bakersfield has no charger so it would be 64 miles, from the town of Tulare supercharger, before reaching bakersfield on highwway 99. So 126 miles from Tulare to Mojave including 3,700 foot rise running the heater and headlights. Probably very safe in summer but in snow and ice? I just have no idea how much battery the climb will eat up nor the heater.
The only information I can find is climbing or towing will reduce range to some extent. Also cold weather reduces battery capacity as well. But I can find no one who shows actual numbers. That is one reason I posted about this here.
The model three has " camp mode" that runs the heater while parked and has a campfire video on the big screen
Bill D

https://www.tesla.com/en_eu/supercharger

[Bill Dufour]

The Hertz car includes a cord with a dryer four prong male end. Also some kind of adapter for non Tesla chargers. No idea what kind it will mate. No 120 volt cord
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

Just looked at charging network for the subaru/toyota BEV. Their chargers are only 50Kw. while Tesla supercharger is 250KW. So five times faster. Very few in California probably worse in the middle of the USA. None in Nevada or east before Denver.
Tesla anounced last week they will open up their chargers to other makers.
Bill D

[roger wiegand]

Post your questions over at the TMC page (Tesla Motor Club), you can probably get first hand experience from people who have made your exact trip. On two long trips in the east and midwest (1600 and 600 miles) in our new Model Y charging has been a complete non-issue. I need to stop somewhat more often than the car does anyway, and charging is typically complete or nearly so by the time I've take a bio break-- typically ~20 minutes to go from ~15-20% up to 80%. Get a subscription to the app A Better Route Planner, it will help you find non-Tesla chargers on your route and also sort them both by capacity and real-time usage. It also takes into account real time weather and the elevation changes in your trip.
FWIW, the onboard chargers Toyota is using are pretty terrible. To charge efficiently on a trip you want a high capacity DC charger and a car that can make use of it. The cars are typically more limiting than the chargers, assuming a 150-250kW rating.

[roger wiegand]

The Hertz car includes a cord with a dryer four prong male end. Also some kind of adapter for non Tesla chargers. No idea what kind it will mate. No 120 volt cord
Bill D
You'll get old before you get any significant charge at 120V, though non-hertz Teslas come with an adapter. Ideally they'd give you a CCS adapter as well as the J1772 that has come standard, that would cover almost all circumstances at non-Tesla charges. Tesla superchargers are the best, CCS are pretty good.

[roger wiegand]

Just for a giggle I plotted a route from Modesto to LA in my car using ABRP leaving right now. Here's what it gave me, I think it's weather assumptions might be optimistic. You could be more conservative by charging to higher than the recommended levels.

496147

[Maurice Mcmurry]

This is fun looking at the Tesla trip planer. I never would have thought to rent one. I can't get a result for the trip we need to make. Columbia MO, Grafton, NH, Boston MA, Brunswick Ga, Durham NC, Columbia MO. Doing it in the Prius will work well enough but I won't be able to bring many tools. We hope to get a Nisan Leaf. For the out east loop it looks like it will have to be a plug in hybrid.

[Ronald Blue]

I just looked out of curiosity. Not even available in St Louis at least not at the airport. That was looking out one month. There are a handful of electrics in the area but they don't do well in the cold. Even my hybrid drops 10 to 20 per cent.

[Bill Dufour]

Avis and Enterprise claim to have BEV's but none near me. I was surprised Hertz actually had several here. It may just be a trial location since we are around 50 miles from San Jose and less then that from the Tesla factory in Fremont. My Niece's brothers in law commute to the factory from this town. Local Target store recently got 12 superchargers.
Bill D

[Alan Lightstone]

I rented a Model 3 in Albuquerque last fall. No one at Hertz knew how to open the trunk. It was amusing. There was a supercharger in town, so no issues. And I saved a ton on gas heading up to Santa Fe and back.

The strangest/worst part was that the "autopilot/cruise control" maxed out at 80mph. At that speed, I was passed by literally hundreds and hundreds of cars on I-10 where the speed limit is 75mph and there are lots of stretches with truly nothing around you. It started to feel a little dangerous.

Was also amusing that they gave you a water bottle with the rental. Probably a lesson there if you got stuck. I filled it.

Not new to me driving a Tesla. I've been driving one for 9 years.

[Bill Dufour]

Alan the glovebox is locked with a pin number. I asked when we turned it in and they will not tell you the pin. So no glovebox for some reason.
Bill D

[Brian Elfert]

My wife talked me into renting a Tesla model 3 from Hertz for a 800 mile road trip. Unlimited milage for one week is only $200. A little less with AAA discount. You have to pay to charge it up.
It will cost less to rent then to pay for gas for our SUV.


Teslas apparently rent for a lot less in California than in Minnesota. After seeing your post I checked into renting a Tesla from Hertz for a road trip later this year. The cost was over $600 a week. I'll put the miles on my car for that kind of money.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Our HyVee grocery stores have impressive supercharges in their parking lots.

[Bill Dufour]

Teslas apparently rent for a lot less in California than in Minnesota. After seeing your post I checked into renting a Tesla from Hertz for a road trip later this year. The cost was over $600 a week. I'll put the miles on my car for that kind of money.
This price is for the smallest Tesla. Mid size ice cars cost more to rent then 200 as do bigger Teslas. Probably special promotion to get people in.
I do live less the 75 miles from the town of Tesla. Which is not really a town just a highway exit for a old hydroelectric generater station on a aquaduct.
Bill D

[Ronald Blue]

Teslas apparently rent for a lot less in California than in Minnesota. After seeing your post I checked into renting a Tesla from Hertz for a road trip later this year. The cost was over $600 a week. I'll put the miles on my car for that kind of money.

I did check again at O'Hare this time and they do have a model 3 available for $360 per week. 260 mile range except it's winter so probably 200 or less. If you aren't leaving the city you might be okay. I wonder what they charge you if you return it with less than a full charge?

[Jason Roehl]

I watched some interesting YouTube videos by a Tesla owner who regularly road trips with his. His driving/charging strategy seemed interesting, but makes sense if you understand how batteries charge. He would plan his stops to be at less than 10% battery, then only charge to about 50%, because he could do that on a supercharger in about 20 min or so. Batteries charge slower the closer they get to fully charged (it’s an inverse exponential curve). So this guy would drive 100 miles or so, then stop for 20-30 minutes. Not really my cup of tea, but that makes it somewhat close to reasonable (and not too far from how I travel on a motorcycle…).

[Alan Lightstone]

I wonder what they charge you if you return it with less than a full charge?
At least in my case in Albuquerque with Hertz, they could care less what charge level you brought it back with. So, needless to say, pretty empty in my case, with no charge to me.

[Alan Lightstone]

I watched some interesting YouTube videos by a Tesla owner who regularly road trips with his. His driving/charging strategy seemed interesting, but makes sense if you understand how batteries charge. He would plan his stops to be at less than 10% battery, then only charge to about 50%, because he could do that on a supercharger in about 20 min or so. Batteries charge slower the closer they get to fully charged (it’s an inverse exponential curve). So this guy would drive 100 miles or so, then stop for 20-30 minutes. Not really my cup of tea, but that makes it somewhat close to reasonable (and not too far from how I travel on a motorcycle…).
Great way to ruin the battery. Plus Teslas go crazy and start turning off things and conserving energy like crazy when you get down lower than about 40 miles of charge. You start getting messages like "Seriously, you need to charge the car."

[roger wiegand]

My strategy (widely shared) is to aim for charging at 15% +/- 5% up to 80%. This takes about 20-25 minutes with the battery preconditioned and gives me a stop every ~2-1/2 hours-- ~150-200 miles, depending on conditions-- (which is when I need to take a break in any event). For example last fall with temps in the 40's driving 600 miles from Boston to Cleveland I needed three charging stops to show up at my destination (which has no 240V plug or charger) with a 60% charge.

I'm finding it an easy and relaxing way to drive.

[Bill Dufour]

Hertz 70-80% no charge, less then 70% add $25, under 20% another $25.
Bill D.

[Jason Roehl]

Great way to ruin the battery. Plus Teslas go crazy and start turning off things and conserving energy like crazy when you get down lower than about 40 miles of charge. You start getting messages like "Seriously, you need to charge the car."

It’s my understanding that not fully depleting a battery, and not fully charging it are the best for longevity. Also, I don’t recall this YouTuber getting any of those warnings, but he was also using the onboard Tesla mapping software, and selecting his waypoints as charging stations. Then the software would tell him what level of charge he could expect to have remaining at the next waypoint.

[Alex Zeller]

I don't know if Tesla changed it but when the car says there's 10% less it's really a lot more than 10%. Tesla was able to remove that limitation when people were trying to flee hurricanes and finding charging stations was hard.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Am I hallucinating or is the 2023 Toyota fuel cell car a real thing? I have yet to go down the fuel cell rabbit hole.

[Jim Becker]

Am I hallucinating or is the 2023 Toyota fuel cell car a real thing? I have yet to go down the fuel cell rabbit hole.
Toyota has been developing hydrogen (fuel cell) vehicles for some time now. If any are commercially available, it would likely be in a very limited area that has hydrogen refill resources deployed; perhaps in parts of California.

[Alan Lightstone]

Toyota has been developing hydrogen (fuel cell) vehicles for some time now. If any are commercially available, it would likely be in a very limited area that has hydrogen refill resources deployed; perhaps in parts of California.
The last I heard, there were only 34 locations where you could get hydrogen for a car. All in California (mostly around LA, with a few near SF). Could be a little off there. And they are nowhere near each other, so if you don't live close, or are stuck in LA traffic, good luck. The nearest station could be a mile away there. And if you lived elsewhere, a total non-starter.

https://www.truezero.com/station-map/

Not exactly nationwide infrastructure. The idea is sound, and I wish that Toyota had gone all-in on it years ago, but the infrastructure costs are in the billions, and no one seems interested in doing that.

[Alan Lightstone]

I don't know if Tesla changed it but when the car says there's 10% less it's really a lot more than 10%. Tesla was able to remove that limitation when people were trying to flee hurricanes and finding charging stations was hard.

There is hidden range, according to many reports. And yes, living in hurricane country, Tesla does send a software upgrade to your car before a hurricane increasing your range. Huge kudos to them for doing that, and I have taken advantage of that twice during hurricanes.

One interesting observation I made during last year's Hurricane Ian. When we drove back from evacuating to Tampa, I saw about at least 50 gas stations with no power - thus no gas. This is despite a Florida law that mandates generators for gas stations (totally ignored by them). I drove past three Tesla superchargers. All were fully operational - even though the Wawa one was in the parking lot of had no power.

So 10 years ago I used to say that the only thing a Tesla is good for in a hurricane is that it's the World's Best iPhone Charger. But this past hurricane, we evacuated in it, and it was a very, very good decision. And will be going forward.

[Bill Dufour]

I wonder how it will affect Tesla prices when hertz starts selling their used ones after a few years. Sounds like renters will have abused the batteries and shortened the range a bit.
Bill D

[Doug Garson]

Toyota has been developing hydrogen (fuel cell) vehicles for some time now. If any are commercially available, it would likely be in a very limited area that has hydrogen refill resources deployed; perhaps in parts of California.
There are four hydrogen fueling stations in Metro Vancouver (out of a grand total of seven in Canada (Victoria, Toronto and Quebec City) and I've seen a couple of the Toyota Mirais on the road. By comparison I can't drive five minutes without seeing a dozen Teslas.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

In many states people can die if they break down along the road and their are laws to punish motorists who pass cars stopped along the road with out stopping and offering assistance. I ran into that in North Dakota. I passed a guy changing a tire on a two lane highway and was pulled over and given a warning. The Dept of Transportation had a lot of service announcements about carrying winter survival kits in cars, duty to stop and offer assistance. etc.

A high school buddy had a much older sister that was a nurse at a reservation hospital in Arizona. Back in the early 1970's, He and a relative broke down somewhere on the reservation and he said they waited for hours and no cars came by and they ended up walking ten miles at night to find a house, and there was no auto or phone there. The person that owned the house put a special flag up his flag pole to summon help which arrived a few hours later.

[Bob Turkovich]

Just curious. Is the self-driving feature disabled when you rent a Tesla?

[Jim Becker]

Just curious. Is the self-driving feature disabled when you rent a Tesla?
It's only available if licensed and I sure hope it's disabled on a rental!

[Bill Dufour]

It's only available if licensed and I sure hope it's disabled on a rental!
The online instructions say it has autopilot speed control and auto steer to stay within the lanes. Of course they have weasel words saying driver is responsible to keep car under control at all times. Hands on the wheel at all times etc. You can set the automatic following distance as well.
I believe automatic emergency braking is default on the model 3. The driver has to do something to turn it off at every startup.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

A lot of vehicles have adaptive cruise control and lane centering these days in addition to both forward and rear collision sensing/braking. That's not full autopilot when it comes to Tesla but as you mention, the lane centering feature, regardless of make and model is not supposed to be "hands free". It's an assist but one's hands are supposed to at least be lightly engaged with the steering wheel.

[Derek Meyer]

My 2020 Ford Edge has the lane-keeping assist, the adaptive cruise control with configurable follow distance, and emergency braking. These systems do not add up to an autopilot, and the car will chime a warning at you if your hands are off the wheel for more than 5 seconds. If you don't take the wheel within another 5 seconds it will deactivate the cruise control. At least it doesn't have the eye-tracking camera that requires you to be looking ahead at all times the system is engaged.

[roger wiegand]

"Autopilot" in Tesla-speak is adaptive cruise control and fairly useless lane keeping (you can have cruise without the lane keeping). The lane keeping nags you after about 20 seconds if you haven't wiggled the steering wheel. "Full self driving" (which is nothing like full self driving) is the prototype autonomous system. Apparently works quite well on the highway, more exciting on city streets. It also nags you (and then turns off) if you're not giving the car evidence of paying attention.

[Doug Garson]

In many states people can die if they break down along the road and their are laws to punish motorists who pass cars stopped along the road with out stopping and offering assistance. I ran into that in North Dakota. I passed a guy changing a tire on a two lane highway and was pulled over and given a warning. The Dept of Transportation had a lot of service announcements about carrying winter survival kits in cars, duty to stop and offer assistance. etc.

That sounds like a law that could put the driver stopping at risk, would you want an elderly couple or a mother with small children stopping to help some strangers late at night on a remote road? Better if police set up a 911 style number to report a driver in distress so they could respond, than to have people put themselves at risk by stopping. Besides, if your not mechanically inclined or have first aid training, the best thing you can do is call for qualified help.

[Bob Turkovich]

I have never been enamored with Tesla's tendency to let the customer base perform testing for them. Apparently, NHTSA still has some issues with their self-driving features.

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-recalls-full-self-driving-cars-875b54d4b71e97d43a17e968d7b856ae

One would think the rental companies would ask for the features to be disabled to avoid legal issues.

[Brian Elfert]

Doesn't self driving cost additional on a Tesla? Hertz would be unlikely to want to spend extra money to add a feature that is full of liability issues.

[Alan Lightstone]

The Hertz rental does not have the level of "Full Self Driving" beta software that my car has. And yes, it costs extra when you buy the car, then, at least when I got it, had to qualify by demonstrating safe driving for a period of time, with no forced takeovers by the car, or moves it felt were dangerous.

I easily achieved that, as my car was in the shop for several days getting ceramic coating and tinting, so no bad driving while it never moved. Pretty funny at the time.

The best way I describe "Full Self Driving" in its present state to friends is "Absolutely Terrifying".

It has driven me 20-30 miles over residential streets, highways, etc... to a destination I plugged into the Nav system. Actually very impressive. But pigs will fly before I allow it to make a blind left-hand turn onto a busy divided highway/street. That part scares the &*(^ out of you.

It also wants to change lanes frequently, thinking it will save you time, even though you know there's always a backup of cars at a Starbucks, for example near me. I would never go into the right lane there, but the car thinks its a good move. And, despite supposedly being able to do so, the car won't let me turn lane changes off. So no question, it's not ready for primetime.