I've had it with Phillips screws

[Mike Henderson]

I've never liked Phillips screws. Driving them into anything hard requires that you push the impact driver hard into the screw and are easy on the trigger, or the bit cams out. I tried square drive bits and they're better than Phillips screws, but there's something even better.

I now use screws with a Torx head (about T-25). The bit doesn't cam out and it's much easier to drive screws into hard wood.

I realize many of you may have alread discovered this but I'm slow to learn.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

I also don't like Phillips head screws and try really hard to avoid them. Most of what I use are square drive for two decades now but a lot of T25 has entered the picture during the shop build because that's what many construction type screws now come in. Both work for me, but I think T25 Torx is better for the harder driving applications for sure.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

My experience with Phillips head screws improved dramatically when I started using Wiha bits. It gets even better when I avoid the lower priced big box store screws.

And yes, the Torx are superior IMO.

[Cameron Wood]

I carry a change purse in my pocket with a dozen different screw tips, and not because I want to. :(

I'll give you a quarter if you can tell the difference between a T-20 and a T-25, or between a T-25 and a T-27.

[Ron Citerone]

Torx YES! Especially with stainless. I use up any Phillips I have, then buy that size in Torx only.


I saw an electrical video that suggested using the slotted part of an outlet scrw for the final tightening.

[Edward Weber]

Blame Henry Ford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-mDqKtivuI

[Dave Zellers]

I adopted Robertson (square drive) screws many years ago and have never looked back. I just don't have the problems that others have. I'm certainly aware of Torx but don't need to switch. Likely influenced by my inventory of stainless steel screws of every size that is worth many many hundreds of buckaroos.

IMO, the secret to driving screws lies in mastering the variable speed trigger. Start slow, get your alignment right and then increase the speed.

[Howard Rosenberg]

I'm Canadian, so Robertson all the way.... (those in the know call them Robbies)

[Bill Dufour]

I hate those electrical screws that are sorta philips and sorta slotted. Now some are also sorta square drive. I hear there is an actual name for that head type and one maker in Switzerland makes a screwdriver to fit.
BilL D.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

The secret to driving screws for me is a proper plot hole. Phillips has worked perfectly for me for over 40 years (the exception being side case screws on vintage motor cycles). Oh how I dislike having to keep 10 different driver tips in my kit. I always look for Phillips screws. I always drill a proper pilot hole even if it requires 3 sizes. I do not use an impact driver for wood working. Square drives have made their way into my regulars only because of their availability in stainless steel. For an education on how wood screws are supposed to work, drive few hundred with a screwdriver, then graduate to a Yankee screwdriver, then get a cordless driver drill. The lessons learned with a screwdriver are of upmost importance to a thoughtful woodworker. (personal rant)

[Ron Citerone]

Then there is Pozi...............

[Ron Citerone]

The secret to driving screws for me is a proper plot hole. Phillips has worked perfectly for me for over 40 years (the exception being side case screws on vintage motor cycles). Oh how I dislike having to keep 10 different driver tips in my kit. I always look for Phillips screws. I always drill a proper pilot hole even if it requires 3 sizes. I do not use an impact driver for wood working. Square drives have made their way into my regulars only because of their availability in stainless steel. For an education on how wood screws are supposed to work, drive few hundred with a screwdriver, then graduate to a Yankee screwdriver, then get a cordless driver drill. The lessons learned with a screwdriver are of upmost importance to a thoughtful woodworker. (personal rant)

I agree. When doing some construction I just drive them mostly but not always. When making furniture with hardwood I always drill pilot holes.

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m glad my name isn’t Phillip Screw. :)

[Paul F Franklin]

I hate those electrical screws that are sorta philips and sorta slotted. Now some are also sorta square drive. I hear there is an actual name for that head type and one maker in Switzerland makes a screwdriver to fit.
BilL D.

They are ECX screws. Two sizes are common on electrical devices and circuit breakers, ECX1 and ECX2. Lots of folks, including Klein, make drivers and bits for them. I do a fair amount of electrical work so I have a set of manual drivers and also bits. A phillips, a straight blade, and a square drive tool will all drive them in a pinch, but the correct bit works best.

[Lee Schierer]

I've switched to Spax wood screws for everything except Kreg pocket hole screws. The Spax screws are stronger and drive easier than any other type of screw. I still drill clearance and pilot holes in cabinet work.

[Dave Zellers]

The secret to driving screws for me is a proper plot hole. Phillips has worked perfectly for me for over 40 years (the exception being side case screws on vintage motor cycles). Oh how I dislike having to keep 10 different driver tips in my kit. I always look for Phillips screws. I always drill a proper pilot hole even if it requires 3 sizes. I do not use an impact driver for wood working. Square drives have made their way into my regulars only because of their availability in stainless steel. For an education on how wood screws are supposed to work, drive few hundred with a screwdriver, then graduate to a Yankee screwdriver, then get a cordless driver drill. The lessons learned with a screwdriver are of upmost importance to a thoughtful woodworker. (personal rant)

Totally agree with everything you said especially the part I highlighted in bold. The proper pilot hole is everything in using screws. In almost every case, you want very little, to no bite in the piece you are attaching.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

The only construction screws I do not pre drill is when hanging drywall. A drywall gun is a drag. A drywall gun with square drives is as distasteful to me as Kreg screws.

[John K Jordan]

I’m in the Torx camp for power driving. Switched years ago to T-25 deck and construction screws when building decks and farm buildings/sheds.

I prefer Phillips or hex (for allen wrench) when tightening by hand. Where countersinking is not needed I prefer hex socket machine screws. I keep them from 2mm up.

Note that some cross- headed screws look like Phillips but are JIS. JIS are made differently and are less likely than Phillips to cam out by hand or otherwise. One of by best tool buys in the last few years was a set of high quality JIS screwdrivers.

There are others, but this has a good explanation of the difference.

https://www.motorcycle.com/ask-mo-anything/difference-between-japanese-jis-phillips.html

JKJ

[Richard Coers]

I made that decision about 25 years ago.

[Dave Sabo]

I hate those electrical screws that are sorta philips and sorta slotted. Now some are also sorta square drive. I hear there is an actual name for that head type and one maker in Switzerland makes a screwdriver to fit.
BilL D.

ECX ………..and lotsa co.’s make the bits and drivers. I’ve got some from Wiha, Milwaukee, and Klein.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Torx is always my preference. I keep a wide inventory of tiny T10 trim screws all the way up to 12” + T40 structural screws for timber work and everything in between.

I will begrudgingly use and tolerate Philips screws when absolutely necessary, like color-matched door hinge screws or the like, but they are an inferior design in my opinion and were designed to cam out before over driving. Proper pilot holes and using the proper size and quality driver bit are necessary, but even then Philips are way behind Torx, IMO.

Don’t get me started on slotted screws...

[Jack Frederick]

Phillips was a big step up from slotted. Robbies are good, but I’ve pretty much settled into torx. I like the GRK screws. I am baffled by those using only T25’s. I like the Cabinet Screws from GRK and they go from 15 up. I just start the day with a pocket of torx bits and it is a quick change-out.

[Wes Grass]

Torx is superior, but I prefer the look of Phillips. Pozidrive ... better, but an 'oddball' from my perspective.

Hex sockets are good, but there are combinations of head styles and sizes that force you into wrenches (keys?) that are too small. I've wound up drilling the heads off far too many. But at least they give you a decent pilot hole compared to a Phillips or slot ;-) Not sure I've ever seen a 'woodscrew' with a hex socket. I still call them 'Allen Screws", FWIW.

Side cover screws on motorcycles demand a smack with a bit and hammer *BEFORE* trying to loosen them. Flat heads an order of magnitude worse.

Worst combination, black oxide hex sockets in hard anodized aluminum. They break loose with a crack and a puff of smoke with a strange smell. Just has to be toxic ...

[Maurice Mcmurry]

There is Feason too. They look like Phillips but are not. Fearson is common for silicon bronze, brass, and other alloy screws.
Any screw that one spins the head out on or breaks off should not be blamed for the failure. It is always up to the installer to have the skill and knowledge to install any given screw type and when which screw is appropriate. Construction screws evolved from the drywall industry. First for metal studs then for wood as an after thought. Then people started using them for general construction, then we had to borrow the impact driver from the auto industry so that everyone can blast away driving construction screws, some without the knowledge of what a wood screw is or how it is supposed to function. This trend is not an improvement to carpentry or wood working to me.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I’m in the Torx camp for power driving. Switched years ago to T-25 deck and construction screws when building decks and farm buildings/sheds.

I prefer Phillips or hex (for allen wrench) when tightening by hand. Where countersinking is not needed I prefer hex socket machine screws. I keep them from 2mm up.

Note that some cross- headed screws look like Phillips but are JIS. JIS are made differently and are less likely than Phillips to cam out by hand or otherwise. One of by best tool buys in the last few years was a set of high quality JIS screwdrivers.

There are others, but this has a good explanation of the difference.

https://www.motorcycle.com/ask-mo-anything/difference-between-japanese-jis-phillips.html

JKJ

JIS=Bicycles and Motorcycles. Thats why motorcycle side case and bicycle derailleur screws are generally in bad shape in the USA (guilty)

[Curt Harms]

My experience with Phillips head screws improved dramatically when I started using Wiha bits. It gets even better when I avoid the lower priced big box store screws.

And yes, the Torx are superior IMO.

100% agree with this. I would cuss big box sourced Phillips head screws until I tried Bosch Phillips driver bits. There just wasn't as much camming out with the same screws that were a pain with with the big box screws.

[Bill Dufour]

Put up a couple lamps by the side of the garage two weeks ago. Made in china machine screws that hold the cover to the base are not magnetic. Not brass or bronze. I gusee aluminum or potmetal. Weather will probably cause galvanic corrosion in a few years
Bill D

[Ron Citerone]

Any screw that one spins the head out on or breaks off should not be blamed for the failure. It is always up to the installer to have the skill and knowledge to install any given screw type and when which screw is appropriate. .

True that. Unfortunately I learned all of that by making mistakes that were a PITA to fix. :(:eek:

To your earlier point, for big jobs I have all my drills on hand one for pilot one for clearance. one for countersink and one with the appropriate driver bit.

[George Yetka]

I think its important to have good bits either way. It took me a long time to realize I can throw them away when they are even a little worn. Phillips is a fact of life when it comes to many things(purchased items, general contruction, Cheep screws, etc). I stocked up on GRK r4s for everything 1-1/4" and up which are very strong and torx drive. For my collection 1/4-1" I loaded up on Mcfeely Blacks in robertson. Both Robertson and Torx work well for me. My festool cxs has room for 5 bits. So it carries #2 phillips for most things around the house, robertson 1&2, and torx 15 and 20 for the smallest GRKs.

Also as said above switching to Premium bits is an amazing upgrade. Wera, wiha, and even the festool are much better than the big box stuff.

Change your bits/drivers

[Ole Anderson]

First thing: Don't use a pointy #1 Philips screwdriver on the much more common #2 Philips screw. Second: A warn Philips bit will certainly sour you on Philips head screws. Yes Torx are the best, but sometimes you are stuck with Phillip screws and you need to make the best of it. My secret? A box of fresh Milwaukee #2 Philips bits. I am about ready to install 90 Blum hinges. The adjustable ones. The screw into the face frame is Philips, while the adjacent adjusting screws are Posidrive, tightened so much a Philips won't loosen them without camming out. Great.

[Rob Luter]

My company applies screws by the tens of millions. The key to a Phillips head recess working well is to know the size recess you have and the size bit it needs. If they match then everything works very predictably. My preference on the assembly line is a product called Quadrex® or SPAX screw drive, a combination of the Phillips and Robertson screw drives. With those we can use square drive bits in the factory and John Q Public can service the product with a Phillips.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

PITA to fix is the background for my construction screw rant. I do as much or more taking things apart than I do building things. A screw with an unknown head type buried so deeply in a deck board or in the back of a cabinet that it can not be seen is not proper. It has however become normal. The advent of hardened, self drilling, self countersinking, screws with heads other than slotted or Phillips that have been driven with an impact is a modern development. I guess there may be a place for it in construction. I won't be building that way. I have also stopped using electro plated, "triple coated" screws for exterior. My screw assortment for exterior contains only stainless steel, brass, and bronze and a few made in the USA hot galvanized.

[roger wiegand]

Torx for construction work absolutely. A lot of what I do is either antique restoration or building things in the spirit of the antiques. Nothing looks worse than a shiny phillips head screw in that context. I have a carefully hoarded selection of NOS slotted screws for that work. On my recent dance organ restoration project a lot of the screws were rusted beyond hope and my stocks of the required sizes were exhausted. I spent uncounted hours wire brushing the cadmium plating off of new steel screws so they wouldn't shine like beacons in the night. Not a favorite activity.

[John K Jordan]

JIS=Bicycles and Motorcycles. Thats why motorcycle side case and bicycle derailleur screws are generally in bad shape in the USA (guilty)

I used to struggle with removing some bolts/screws on motorcycle side cases, even with a good hand-and-hammer impact driver. I'd have to cut a slot in the stripped out head using a small metal-cutting disk on a Dremel then use a big flat-tipped screwdriver. Then some enterprising person started selling replacement bolt kits with hex sockets. That was about a 1/2 century ago.

I see the last few 4-wheelers I've bought didn't have a Philips/JIS head anywhere on the engine, just on small screws on controls, carbs, and such.

[Mike Henderson]

First thing: Don't use a pointy #1 Philips screwdriver on the much more common #2 Philips screw. Second: A worn Philips bit will certainly sour you on Philips head screws. Yes Torx are the best, but sometimes you are stuck with Phillip screws and you need to make the best of it. My secret? A box of fresh Milwaukee #2 Philips bits. I am about ready to install 90 Blum hinges. The adjustable ones. The screw into the face frame is Philips, while the adjacent adjusting screws are Posidrive, tightened so much a Philips won't loosen them without camming out. Great.

That's something I learned - throw away a Phillips bit when it gets worn and starts to cam out. I used to try to keep them way too long.

Mike

[Kevin Jenness]

Square drives are easiest to keep on a driver tip without falling off, though Torx are less likely to cam out and easiest to clock. Slotted screws are hardest to drive but easiest to clean and remove after painting.

My pet peeve (not the only one) is carpenters using a #2 Philips driver on #3 door hinge screws or Philips bits for Euro hinge adjustments. It's worth sending a drive bit with doors if in doubt of the installer.

[Cameron Wood]

Square drives are easiest to keep on a driver tip without falling off, though Torx are less likely to cam out and easiest to clock. Slotted screws are hardest to drive but easiest to clean and remove after painting.

My pet peeve (not the only one) is carpenters using a #2 Philips driver on #3 door hinge screws or Philips bits for Euro hinge adjustments. It's worth sending a drive bit with doors if in doubt of the installer.



Agree. It's usually the painters who ruin the screws on expensive fancy door hinges.

I like square drive, but they went out of favor in my area & not worth special ordering. On a deck that I just reworked, a couple of pounds of 3" SS screws came out and went right back into stock as they were almost all in perfect condition after ~20 years installed.


Also agree with Maurice Mcmurry above- hardened fasteners are tough to cut, hard on blades, and can be a PIA to dig out. At least not as bad as figuring out the size of some tiny allen screw in a plumbing fixture and whether it is SAE or metric.

I also have noticed un-plated steel screws have become more valuable as they become more scarce. Bright, plated phillips wood screws look terrible on older furniture.

[mike stenson]

JIS=Bicycles and Motorcycles. Thats why motorcycle side case and bicycle derailleur screws are generally in bad shape in the USA (guilty)

I am so happy that most derailleurs are now hex. So very happy.

[Wes Grass]

Hex sockets were a great upgrade on dirtbikes. But they get packed with mud and have to be dug out before removing them. Then, Honda started using an 8mm hex flange head on M6 screws.

... Amazing ...

I used to go the Honda shop and buy them for other things I was working on. Very attractive combination.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

It is so nice when things are manufactured with sensible fasteners and continuity. The first time I took a Stihl chainsaw case apart I was very careful to keep track of which screws came from where only to realize that they were all exactly the same and the OEM tool provided by Stihl fit them all. I guess that's a +1 for the Stihl screw type which appears to be a torx type.

[Bill Dufour]

I spent uncounted hours wire brushing the cadmium plating off of new steel screws so they wouldn't shine like beacons in the night. Not a favorite activity.[/QUOTE]
I am sure there is an acid dip method to remove plating.
BilL D

Nitric acid?

[Wes Grass]

Cadmium = Toxic.

If they actually are, and not just bright nickel

[Thomas McCurnin]

I don't use Phillips screws with an impact driver. That is way too much force and will strip out the screw head. Just use a driver drill and grease the screw with some wax.

That said, I'm a huge Spax fan with impact drivers.

[Curt Harms]

That's something I learned - throw away a Phillips bit when it gets worn and starts to cam out. I used to try to keep them way too long.

Mike

Somebody ought to tell general aviation aircraft mechanics that. I don't know if they don't want to deal with painting new or what.

[Mark Wooden]

I use them all, but like many have said, keeping track of the torx screw sizes is a bit of a PIA; I find myself having to carry 3 different tips when using different length screws some days.
As to Phillips drive, I use P2R bits, they last longer and dont cam out much due to being relieved (the 'R')

[Michael Burnside]

I'm really hoping flat-head screws make a comeback. Barring that, I pretty much use Castle USA #7 Torx screws for anything to do with woodworking fasteners asside from light-duty stuff for drawer slides and cabinet hardware.

[Cameron Wood]

I don't use Phillips screws with an impact driver. That is way too much force and will strip out the screw head. Just use a driver drill and grease the screw with some wax.

That said, I'm a huge Spax fan with impact drivers.


I find the opposite. The impact driver allows the bit to set back down into the screw head after each impact, reducing cam out.

Jay

[John Goodin]

I really like the Robertson screws too. Particularly, when I need to stick the screw on the end of the bit first when driving one horizontally.

[Curt Harms]

I'm really hoping flat-head screws make a comeback. Barring that, I pretty much use Castle USA #7 Torx screws for anything to do with woodworking fasteners asside from light-duty stuff for drawer slides and cabinet hardware.
I usually have a devil of a time driving slotted screws, either by hand or using a drill driver. I found that using a bit with sliding sleeve helped a lot.

[Kevin Jenness]

Slotted screws suck - except when it comes time to remove them from under paint. It's not that hard to clean out the slot with a sharp skewed tool. Try that with a torx fastener or any other recessed drive. That's why old timer boatbuilders still use slotted screws.

[Darrell Bade]

Guess I'm abnormal - I knew that. I hate not having the right bit and still use all Phillips head, don't seem to struggle with the issues others do. Do struggle with buying them, sometimes they are hard to find in some screw types.

[mike stenson]

Slotted screws are fine, when you have a driver with parallel ground tips. The problem is, most aren't.

They also look better IMO.

[John K Jordan]

Slotted screws are fine, when you have a driver with parallel ground tips. The problem is, most aren't.

Long ago I bought a nice set, Grace tools, made for gunsmiths.

[mike stenson]

Long ago I bought a nice set, Grace tools, made for gunsmiths.

Yea, I use mine pretty regularly. With the right size bit, the screws stick pretty well. The last people that seem to care, are indeed gunsmiths.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I Put a new battery in Darlings timex watch last weekend. A slotted screw holds a retainer that only needed to be loosened to release the battery. I foolishly took it all of the way out. I had to spend 1/2 an hour grooming a cheap, imported, tiny screw driver on the tormek to fit the screw. I used a tiny bit of Karo sirup to stick the screw to the screwdriver. It is an absolute miracle I got it back together. My hat is off to Jewelers and Gunsmiths! The optivisor made it possible. I need a jewelers loop before I tackle the rest of the dead watches we have around.

[Chris Parks]

I Put a new battery in Darlings timex watch last weekend. A slotted screw holds a retainer that only needed to be loosened to release the battery. I foolishly took it all of the way out. I had to spend 1/2 an hour grooming a cheap, imported, tiny screw driver on the tormek to fit the screw. I used a tiny bit of Karo sirup to stick the screw to the screwdriver. It is an absolute miracle I got it back together. My hat is off to Jewelers and Gunsmiths! The optivisor made it possible. I need a jewelers loop before I tackle the rest of the dead watches we have around.

I put a small rare earth magnet on the screwdriver shaft for jobs like that.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I put a small rare earth magnet on the screwdriver shaft for jobs like that.

Good advice! I should have checked for magnetism. It is one of those Timex's that boasts "all stainless steel". Some stainless is magnetic, some is not. I tried to clean the Karyo syrup with a Q-Tip and isopropyl. I bet it will lead to corrosion.
40th anniversary this May. Gold is in order. :)