What Type Chisel Is This

[Joe Wood]

I call it a slick but I know that's wrong. What's the best size / type chisel to be chopping these soft cedar timbers?? That steel ring at the end isn't exactly made for hand work but good for hammer. I need a couple more, this one has has been working well but I bet there's better!

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[Rob Luter]

A slick or a big firmer. The wood isn’t troubled by what it is called.

[Bradley Gray]

sharper is what is better. Perhaps keep the slick and upgrade your method of sharpening.

I also find that rubbing paraffin on the chisel helps a lot.

[John Lanciani]

Framing chisel. Slicks typpically have much longer handles with a pommel on the end so that you can lean on it with your shoulder or upper body.

[Derek Cohen]

Just a firmer chisel. Nothing out of the ordinary. Firmer chisels are heavier duty than bevel-sided chisels, having square sides to beef them up. A Slick would be larger, wider, with a long handle, and the handle would cant upwards slightly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dave Zellers]

I have this one. https://www.amazon.com/Robert-Sorby-Timber-Framing-Chisel/dp/B00866781Y/
Don't use it a lot but it's great when I need it.

[Andrew Hughes]

Good looking cuts on the end grain. Not easy to do on WRC.
Good Luck

[Patrick Johnson]

I call it a slick but I know that's wrong. What's the best size / type chisel to be chopping these soft cedar timbers?? That steel ring at the end isn't exactly made for hand work but good for hammer. I need a couple more, this one has has been working well but I bet there's better!

495823495824

Cosman recommends a 17deg chisel for soft woods like cedar and pine. https://robcosman.com/collections/chisels/products/cosmanized-17-degree-chisel-1-2-inch Make sure your chisels are sharp!

[Rafael Herrera]

If you browse old tool catalogs, you'll notice that beveled, non-beveled, and gouges are all referred as firmer chisels. I wonder where the notion that straight sided chisels are firmers come from originally.

In this old Marples catalog a similar chisel to yours is labeled an extra strong chisel.

https://toolemera.typepad.com/files/marplescat1938.pdf

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[mike stenson]

Barr calls ones about that size bench chisels, but they also make slightly longer ones they call framing chisels and, of course slicks.

[Joe Wood]

Any opinions on this one with a 22* bevel?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V92MIIU/ref=pe_386300_440135490_TE_item

[mike stenson]

Any opinions on this one with a 22* bevel?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V92MIIU/ref=pe_386300_440135490_TE_item

Regarding it to a shallower angle shouldn't be an issue IMO. I've done this with one of their paring chisels, without an issue. The biggest issue I ran into with that chisel was the back needed a lot of work.

[Derek Cohen]

If you browse old tool catalogs, you'll notice that beveled, non-beveled, and gouges are all referred as firmer chisels. I wonder where the notion that straight sided chisels are firmers come from originally.

In this old Marples catalog a similar chisel to yours is labeled an extra strong chisel.

https://toolemera.typepad.com/files/marplescat1938.pdf

495859495859

Adam Cherubini is one whose opinion I trust when it comes to vintage tools and joinery. He had this to say:

“I don't know what a registered chisel is. I think some manufacturer just made it up,

Firming chisels were traditionally the general purpose chisel. Cabinetmakers had large sets of these (many sizes). They were designed to be struck. There were light duty tanged firmers and heavier socketed firmers and even larger framing chisels. But they weren't all available in the same sizes- so it wasn't so much of a personal choice thing.

Modern firmers often have beveled sides, but anglo american 18th c firmers typically did not. I don't think there's any real difference between the two. If I had to guess, I'd say the non beveled sort had stronger edges. They are also a little more resistant to over heating when grinding.”

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edward Weber]

Adam Cherubini is one whose opinion I trust when it comes to vintage tools and joinery. He had this to say:

“I don't know what a registered chisel is. I think some manufacturer just made it up,

Firming chisels were traditionally the general purpose chisel. Cabinetmakers had large sets of these (many sizes). They were designed to be struck. There were light duty tanged firmers and heavier socketed firmers and even larger framing chisels. But they weren't all available in the same sizes- so it wasn't so much of a personal choice thing.

Modern firmers often have beveled sides, but anglo american 18th c firmers typically did not. I don't think there's any real difference between the two. If I had to guess, I'd say the non beveled sort had stronger edges. They are also a little more resistant to over heating when grinding.”

Regards from Perth

Derek

As others have said, it's just a basic Firmer chisel, although there have been about a dozen or more small variations as Derek mentioned. Millwrights chisel, Timber framing, carpenters chisel, registered, firmer and the list go on.
Slicks are two handed chisels that start at 2" or above, and are not struck, only pushed. Firmers are meant to be struck with a mallet, not a claw hammer.
If you are looking to buy one, you can searched for used or companies like Sorby, Northmen and Barr, amongst others sell them.
Many log home sites have tools listed on their sites as well.

[Jim Koepke]

May big chisel (2") is set up for pushing by hand, though it can be driven with a mallet.

495868

It is a Stanley

Crescent Tools made a chisel at one time to be hit by a hammer.

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There is a 1" version of this in my drawer of beater chisels.

Now that is a true beater chisel.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

I don't really know who Adam Cherubini is. What I am pointing out is that manufacturers referred to their straight edge, bevel edge, and gouges as "firmer" chisels. Than can be readily verified in Mathieson, Stanley, Berg, and perhaps other catalogs. The 1926 Stanley catalog has a definition of a "firmer" chisel and it does not refer to its sides or jow they're struck. I would defer to their terminology ahead of some person's unsupported statements.

[William Fretwell]

Joe, a 2” chisel does get used often for clean up. Ideally you need a longer blade for that scale of lumber. The soft wood makes it tolerable for a regular chisel. It depends how many more you have to do. You do get what you pay for but the Narex is remarkable value and for soft wood just fine.

You can also use a scrub plane for much of the rough clean up. It would be a time saver but despite their simplicity, expensive. It does however give you a very useful tool for other projects. Until I had one I did not appreciate the benefit.
I did convert an old wooden plane to a scrub plane, total cost $20 and one hours labour.

As for edge angle, Barr recommends a hand sharpening technique that gives a curve near the blade edge for a stronger edge. Again, for a soft wood you can get away with a shallow angle.



Y

[Jim Koepke]

The 1926 Stanley catalog has a definition of a "firmer" chisel and it does not refer to its sides or jow they're struck. I would defer to their terminology ahead of some person's unsupported statements.

The 1926 Stanley Catalog and the 1934 version were compared and say pretty much the same thing.

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Which really isn't very much.

One "unsupported statement" that came my way in reading was "firmer" chisel meant it could absorb a firmer blow from a mallet.

Not sure if this helps Joe at all. My suggestion would be for him to look for some long flat sided chisels in the sizes he wants. I've always liked Witherby socket chisels for this kind of heavy, demanding work.

The chisel in the center is a Witherby.

495892

It is heavier than the Charles Buck and the Aldi. All chisels can be made to leave a clean surface, it just seems easier with the Witherby.

495893

That is the top of a leg for a tall saw horse.

Chisels marked USN can often be found fairly inexpensive.

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The back tells a story.

495896

This is stamped on the back of the USN chisel. Winsted Edge Tool Company is who made Witherby chisels. This one is my go to 3/4" mortise chisel.


jtk

[Mel Fulks]

The old books say a slick is 3 inches wide.

[Jim Koepke]

The old books say a slick is 3 inches wide.

It seems what is lost in all of this is how the purpose of various chisels affected their given designations such as mortise, paring, firmer, framing and slick.

A slick was often used for debarking and heavy wood removal. It could be said it took rough wood to a "slick" state.

There are many different features of the various chisels that are called paring chisels. It depends on whether one is paring dovetails, dados or some other kind of work. For paring dados or half laps a long, square sided chisel works fine, as will a long bevel sided chisel.

jtk

[steven c newman]

A long time ago, during a This Old House Project...where they were doing Timber Frame work....with a LOT of Volunteers to both help out, and learn the Craft...A member of the Timber Framers gave a lesson on joint making....subject was getting a tenon to spec.....He started with a block plane to get close....then used a 3" wide Slick to pare the tenon both flat and square. He also cautioned about the slick's handle......End of the handle goes against your hip, with a hand to keep it there...the other hand guides the cutting edge...Do NO hold a slick just by the wood handle....as they are never fastened to the slick....and will simply slide out of the slick..heading right where your toes USED to be...

Was season #1 for Steve Thomas..BTW..

[Rafael Herrera]

The definition is pretty straight forward; simply, a firmer chisel is a general purpose chisel or a bench chisel.

The persistent repetition of calling any straight sided chisel a firmer chisel just doesn't jive with what they were called in the catalogs.

Joe's chisel is a heavy duty chisel, plain and simple, it's not a slick. If you go by the Marple's catalog, Joe's chisel is a registered chisel.

Here's an older 1869 catalog listing slicks and socket framing chisels, they're not referred as firmers. Socket and tangued chisels and gouges, all referred as firmers. The paring chisels are not referred as firmers. No beveled sided chisels by this maker, through.

https://archive.org/details/awcrossmanandson1869/mode/1up

At the end of the day, call it what you want. The guy quoted as an authority above finishes his opinion with a guess, not very convincing.

[Derek Cohen]

Rafael, I think that there is a less complicated answer, and in this we may all agree. Some chisel labels have shifted slightly over the years. What is a dovetail chisel? Is there really such a thing? Many, but not all, would prefer to use a chisel with zero lands. But it is still essentially a bench chisel. What is a mortice chisel? Some would no doubt argue that it has a thick blade with a deeper section from front to back. But I come across many using chisels similar to the one in question, and calling it a mortice chisel. Is there a definitive paring chisel? The term “to pare” is used to describe a slicing action with a chisel pushed rather than hit. Are there then long and short-, and thick or thin walled paring chisels. The blades of Japanese and Western paring chisel blades are quite different. What was a “firmer chisel” - essentially a bench chisel … everything was a bench chisel at some point - had come to refer to a slab sided, thickish blade at one stage. They were “Registered chisels” at one time. Now even those with a slight bevel edge are given the name of “Firmer”. One might even ask, what is a bevel edged chisel? Some would reject those chisels with a slight bevel and expect it to have a substantial bevel.

The point I make is obvious - names slide around and disagreement would be expected as a result.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edward Weber]

Every manufacturer has their own width for a slick, their own specs for a firmer, millwright or framing chisel, etc.
What is commonly refereed to today as a timber framing chisel is just a heavier that normal chisel. Most chisels today used for this purpose have a simple flat top, while older chisels had rounded or pyramidal tops for added strength. Many were available in either socket or tanged versions.

Slicks can certainly be used for de-barking but they are more often used for removing high spots and leveling out or refining framing timbers. The heavy wide blade provides a large registration area, this along with the longer handle which aides in control, helps in creating the desired flat surface.
This is what I consider an all around Timber Framing chisel
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This is 1 3/4" wide, the steel is 12" long overall. I added a large handle for it's intended use (it had none when I bought it, it's 100 years old)
The whole thing is 22" long and 2 1/4lbs. This one is quite heavy but in certain circumstances it's extra heft is helpful. Normally a flat top firmer is all that's needed to dress joints.

[Rafael Herrera]

Derek, yes language changes for sure. However, in our hobby, a lot of us like to not only use old hand tools, but also to know who and when they were made. Referring to them by their proper names is also something we appreciate. Here's a new one, don't know if you've seen it used: hand plane handles are referred to as as its "furniture", yuck, but some people like it. I don't know if it's a new term or an old one.

I grew up in my father's shop, he was a cabinet maker. A chisel was called a "formon", the Spanish worc for chosrl. I presume it derives from the French word fermoir. The term "firmer" derives from fermoir as well.

I also presume the new usage of firmer to the narrow category some people like to use to the musings of a magazine writer in the recent past and just repeated.

Cheers from Rome, temporarily, traveling due to family matters.

Rafael

[Edward Weber]

Derek, yes language changes for sure. However, in our hobby, a lot of us like to not only use old hand tools, but also to know who and when they were made. Referring to them by their proper names is also something we appreciate. Here's a new one, don't know if you've seen it used: hand plane handles are referred to as as its "furniture", yuck, but some people like it. I don't know if it's a new term or an old one.

I grew up in my father's shop, he was a cabinet maker. A chisel was called a "formon", the Spanish worc for chosrl. I presume it derives from the French word fermoir. The term "firmer" derives from fermoir as well.

I also presume the new usage of firmer to the narrow category some people like to use to the musings of a magazine writer in the recent past and just repeated.

Cheers from Rome, temporarily, traveling due to family matters.
Rafael

A couple of things,
Woodworking is not a hobby, as you refereed to it. it's a craft/profession. Those who dabble in it consider it to be their hobby. If you grew up in a cabinet shop, you should know this.
(just a pet peeve)
Many chisels, gouges, planes and other tools were named by the profession that used them.
There is not always a single "proper name" that a tool is called.
Usage, language, geography, time and manufacturers all cause changes to how we refer to many things, tools included. There was no stadard that they had to adhere to, they were free to call them what they wanted to. As a result, we now have multiple names for a single tool, all of which are correct.
1910 PS&W catalogue. Look at what they called Firmers over 110 years ago.
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[Rafael Herrera]

Edward, that's all that I'm pointing out, firmer was just a chisel, the catalog you quote demonstrates it, again. Many times the automatic response when someone asks what straight sided chisel is, the answer he gets is "it's a firmer chisel". I bother to bring it up because it's my pet peeve, lol.

Derek and I are amateurs. I'm not sure how what I wrote implies I'm categorizing woodworking as a hobby. My father fed and clothed us with the money he made woodworking, you think I think woodworking is a hobby? My profesional woodworking friends couldn't care less whether a chisel is a firmer or not, frankly I'd be embarrassed to ask them such a question. I'd rather ask them about production or design of furniture.

[steven c newman]

Soooo...is the OP's chisel a Slick with a short handle....or just a wide chisel with a longer than usual handle?

Or..are we merely splitting hairs here....

[Jim Koepke]

Many chisels, gouges, planes and other tools were named by the profession that used them.
There is not always a single "proper name" that a tool is called.

Tell me about it. Candy always tries to correct me when mentioning a marking gauge. She worked in a frame shop and insists it is called a scribe.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

For what it's worth, I offered my opinion about what Joe's chisel is above. Just keep in mind that I'm not a guru, nor pretend to pass as one.

[Jack Dover]

If you look into a "Millwright Guide" (or something), you will notice something special about "framing chisels": they have particular proportions. Can't lever chips out from a 12x12 if your chisel is at a full depth, right? Mortises in heavy beams are 5-6" deep, sometimes they're through - 8" to 12", so the chisel *has* to be long. Barr's, Sorby's and other manufactures' framing chisels are 12" long. Older framing chisels also were tapered from the handle to the business end, so these are probably named something else - could be something looney like "stout carpenter chisels", depending on what the marketing department was drinking today. The chisel from the OP's photo looks like an older Sorby's "heavy chisel" btw, with the kangaroo brand - the shape of the handle is quite distinct. Idk why the scientific name might matter though.

Also note the guy in the background sanding a shoulder that was presumably cut with a circular saw. And the hammer the front guy is using, as well as the direction of a hit. Is this a staged photo from some magazine?

[Edward Weber]

Edward, that's all that I'm pointing out, firmer was just a chisel, the catalog you quote demonstrates it, again. Many times the automatic response when someone asks what straight sided chisel is, the answer he gets is "it's a firmer chisel". I bother to bring it up because it's my pet peeve, lol.

Derek and I are amateurs. I'm not sure how what I wrote implies I'm categorizing woodworking as a hobby.

Rapheal, I might have misunderstood you to mean, your hobby of collecting chisels not woodworking in general but you did write,
"However, in our hobby, a lot of us like to not only use old hand tools, but also to know who and when they were made."

I don't consider myself an expert either, not for me to say.
I can tell you that IME the OP's chisel is just a tanged flat topped firmer. If it were longer, maybe it would be called a timber framing chisel. If it were more stout, maybe a millwright chisel.
I can tell you it's too small for the work being done, it shouldn't be struck with a claw hammer or used to pry with.
Many of the names used to identify these tools are often used interchangeably, precisely because the is no set in stone standard. Simply no criteria that everyone agrees upon. We usually agree on the macro scale but as we refine things down to the micro scale, options diverge.