9 inch versus 14 inch bandsaw - which to buy - specific use case and feed pressur

[Cory filder]

Hello,
happy to be on the forum. posting.

I have been using a jigsaw for many years and have decided it's time to get the bandsaw, and wanted advice regarding a 9 inch bandsaw versus a 14 inch.

the most important deciding factor for me is feed pressure related to how hard I'm able to push. is the reason why I upgraded my jigsaw a couple years ago. My old jigsaw worked fine, but I had to push too hard and became difficult to do over time. after I upgraded, it made world of difference


here are my requirements/ thoughts

I will not be doing any re- saw work in the foreseeable future. If it ever came to that, I would buy the proper 14 inch with a 1.5 or 2 hp motor and do it right.
Budget: used machines only, Whatever the going rate is.
regarding feed pressure, if there is a difference is this a small amount or large? Or should this not matter as the bandsaw should be doing the work? is it slower?
larger machines are harder to move around ( mostly set up) and take up more space. I think I Might be able to manage this, but it's not my first preference.
Vibration is something I have no experience with. I have only ever used a proper 14 inch many years ago, just a few times. Does a smaller bandsaw cause inaccuracies? Is it just annoying? why is vibration bad?
Anticipated thickness of stock would be 4/4 and even some 2X lumber. both use cases would be Softwood. Hardwoods sometimes but not often, And thin.
I've seen people like Mattias Wandel use casters and move the machines around to give him lots of space. I typically have All of my machines sitting on a bench top and work well As it saves space. Does the bandsaw need to be either movable or not against a wall for space for cuts? I don't expect any of the boards to be longer than 4 feet.
honestly, are all 9 inch bandsaw's the same in performance whether it is Canadian Tire, or ryobi, or whatever? They all seemed to be 2.5 to 3 A. no I will not be getting a three wheel bandsaw.


sorry for the wall of words. I've been thinking about this for a while

[John TenEyck]

The size of the saw doesn't matter as far as feed pressure. It's all about the blade and its speed until your feed rate overloads the motor's ability to pull the blade through the wood. No amount of added force will help at that point, it will make it even worse. If you put a good blade on a 9" saw and stay withing the motor's limit it will cut fine for your needs. That said, I would take a 14" saw every time over a 9" one because the larger motor will allow lower tooth count blades to cut faster. With high tooth count blades there probably is no difference.

For 1/4" plywood there is likely no difference in the two options. With 2 x 4's the 14" saw will win for speed. There are more blade options, too, for a 14" saw.

John

[Cory filder]

The size of the saw doesn't matter as far as feed pressure. It's all about the blade and its speed until your feed rate overloads the motor's ability to pull the blade through the wood. No amount of added force will help at that point, it will make it even worse. If you put a good blade on a 9" saw and stay withing the motor's limit it will cut fine for your needs. That said, I would take a 14" saw every time over a 9" one because the larger motor will allow lower tooth count blades to cut faster. With high tooth count blades there probably is no difference.

For 1/4" plywood there is likely no difference in the two options. With 2 x 4's the 14" saw will win for speed. There are more blade options, too, for a 14" saw.

John

To further your message, if the pressure is the same, how much difference are we talking about speed? Is it more like 50%, five times as fast? Or anything in between.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I owned and used one of the better 9” bandsaws (Rikon 305)but replaced it with an old jet 14”. Significant difference in speed and ease of use and blade options. Not much difference in footprint. I would recommend the larger even if only for occasional cuts. I would predict based on my experience and talking to others that once you have a good bandsaw you will find many more uses for it than you presently envision.

[John K Jordan]

One perhaps minor consideration: the smaller the wheels the tighter radius the blade has to bend which can affect blade life. For that and several other reasons bandsaw experts especially warn against the small 3-wheel desktop saws which I see you are not considering.

My 14" bandsaw is on a mobile base but I keep my 18" bandsaw tight against a wall on the side next to the frame with plenty of space on the other three sides.

I can recommend several good bandsaw books if you haven't read any. I have two by Mark Duginski and one by Lonnie Bird. All of these books have a wealth of information and may help with a decision. Like almost everything, the bigger your budget the better saw you can buy. While my older 14" Delta would easily handle resawing 12" boards and cutting turning blanks up to 12" thick from hardwoods I did have to cut a little slower than the with 18" saw due to the smaller motor. As John T mentioned, the feed rate/pressure is usually limited by the blade type and speed. (And the sharpness, of course!) For the applications you mentioned with thin stock as long as you have the proper blade a smaller motor isn't going to be a problem. You do have to make sure the number of teeth per inch is appropriate for the stock and the application.

One thing that can make a LOT of difference in the way any bandsaw works is the blade tension. Tension two low for the blade can cause a lot of problems.

You may have more trouble finding blades for the 9" saw but you can always have them made. I have a local Lenox bandsaw shop make nearly all of my blades - they can make any size. However if buying used, I personally would look for one of the older Jet or Delta 14" saws. There are a LOT of those out there!

FWIW, my typical bandsaw application:
495520 495521 495522

JKJ

[Randy Heinemann]

Buying tools is always a tough decision, but I have a some recent experience comparing a 14" and 10" bandsaw. I have recently bought a second bandsaw; the first was a 14" Rikon 10-325 which I have used for a number of years and the second a 10" Rikon which I've owned only about 3 months. Since I mostly resaw with the 14", the reason I bought the second was I wanted to avoid changing blades when I do curve cuts. When I have my 14" setup for resawing, I just don't want to mess with the setup or cut turning blanks with it, so I thought the smaller bandsaw would be great for cutting parts from templates and other non-resawing work. Plus, it's easy to ruin a blade good for resawing when using it for curve cuts.

So far, I'd say that the 10" hasn't worked as well as I hoped. It might not seem like it, but cutting on a 10" saw is different. I even equipped the 10" with a Carter Stabilizer which backs the blade for tighter curved cuts and is made for use with 1/4" and less blades (a 3/16" blade is a good size). It works OK but really hasn't yet reached the level of performance I was hoping for. It's possible it will just take a little while to get used to it but it's just not the same saw as a 14".

Blades for a 10" are, as suggested by another, not as readily available. For example, on at least one of the websites that sell blades, a 70 1/2" blade, which is what the saw takes, isn't sold. I did find a Starrett at Woodcraft but even Rockler and Woodcraft generally do not stock this size in their stores.

I would encourage you to consider ways to make the 14" work in your shop. Equip it with a 3/16" or smaller blade for your curved work. Possibly even consider a Carter Stabilizer as it does improve your . capability with curves, especially on a 14". The 14" is just a better piece of equipment. Since blades are more available, you have a bigger choice and many times they are better priced.

There is nothing wrong with a 10" (I've never seen a 9".), but it just reduces the machines capabilities significantly. All this, of course, is merely based on my recent experiences and, given your uses, a smaller saw might work out.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Owning 14" Delta's ( three currently,) they would be both my first and second choice. Think of the 10" as a Smart Car, and a 14" as a dually pickup. Which one do you think will do the most work? Eventually you will want to upgrade from the 10" saw, so why not cry only once and get a 14". In my experience, when I upgraded from my Sears 12" to my first Delta 14", it was night and day difference. As for DC on the 14", many years back, I had the "Top Tip" in Wood magazine on improving dust collection WITHOUT cutting into machine.

[Jim Becker]

Also consider throat depth which can be the most obvious limiting factor with any of these small saws over and above things like power, etc. A 9" bandsaw has a very narrow throat depth which limits the width of material between the band and the spine/fence as well as the length toward the spine for crosscutting, angled cuts and scrolling.

[Brian Tymchak]

... I would predict based on my experience and talking to others that once you have a good bandsaw you will find many more uses for it than you presently envision.

+1. I have a table saw but now that I have my BS (Rikon 14") tuned up properly, I use it more than the TS now for ripping lumber. That's not something I had considered when I first bought the saw. I would recommend going with the 14" saw from the get go with anticipation of growing into it. And I bet eventually if you get the 14" you will at some point step into resawing, even though you currently don't think you will. Given that, I would also recommend making sure the used 14" you find has a resaw capacity of 10" to 12".

[Andrew More]

14" blade are available at my local Lowes, guessing the same with Home Depot, but I haven't checked.

[Rick Potter]

I would add that since you are discussing used saws, beware of the ones that were sold cheaply, like Harbor Freight, or the no-name ones. I had a 10" Craftsman given to me and played with it for too long trying to get it to work correctly. It had plastic wheels, bushings rather than bearings, and tension parts made of stamped lightweight steel which bent. Gave it away.

There are some decent 9" saws out there, but for general use, you cannot beat a 12-14". Remember, the bigger it is, the larger workpiece you can swivel around on it.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have an 18" saw for running a 1/2" blade and a 10" for a 1/4" blade. The 10" is a Rikon 10-305, the precursor to the current 10-306. I routinely use it to cut a 1" radius in 2-2.25" thick walnut, cherry, maple etc when making banjo necks and it does great. It's not the fastest, but I'm not using it for that job all day.

Speaking of 3 wheel bandsaws, a Craftsman from the 50s or so was donated recently to the thrift store where I volunteer. They priced it at $200 based on the previous owner's valuation and I said I thought it was way too high, but then a few weeks later they sold it for $150. I told the manager all you need is one sucker, and they got lucky that the right one came in. I can't imagine what the buyer will think if they actually try to use it.

[John K Jordan]

Also consider throat depth which can be the most obvious limiting factor with any of these small saws over and above things like power, etc. A 9" bandsaw has a very narrow throat depth which limits the width of material between the band and the spine/fence as well as the length toward the spine for crosscutting, angled cuts and scrolling.

And a smaller saw has a limited overall table size, a handicap for some operations.

50+ years ago I used a bandsaw they said had a 20’ blade. I don’t recall the size of the wheels but I remember how fantastic the table was.

[James Jayko]

As pretty much everyone said, blades are what matters. I generally buy them in threes and use them like you'd use sand paper: when it stops working like it should, swap it out. They're like $20 online.

14" saws have more blade availability, and finding the right blade for the job makes all the difference in the world. Try resawing with a 7 TPI blade and you'll think your saw is defective. Put on a 2-3 TPI blade on the same saw with the same setup and performance will be night and day. "Get the right blade for the job" is screamingly obvious, but if someone had told me I would have saved myself a lot of headache!

[Aaron Inami]

I purchased a small 9" benchtop bandsaw a number of years ago because I needed some sort of bandsaw for a small project. It worked, but in the end, this bandsaw turned out to be one of the biggest pains in the butt for me. I hated using it. I did buy a 9" bandsaw that was a bit more heavy duty. Cast iron table and wheels and so forth. However, everything on the saw was not quite a plastic toy, but it was also not quite the best mechanisms either. The table tilt mechanism worked, but it was sort of crappy. Some 9" bandsaws do not come with a fence, which I found out is a significant negative when trying to use it for accurate cuts. Every mechanism on the saw was "okay", but wish it could be better. The bandsaw ended up being a floor piece that was a hassle because I kept running into it and had to move it around (just another floor obstacle).

The smaller 9" bandsaws are in the $200-400 budget area. When you move up to 14" bandsaw, there is a HUGE jump to the $1200-1800 price range. If you can afford this, I highly recommend going this way. You have discussed the idea of going to a 1.5-2HP motor. Keep in mind that once you go over 1.5HP, you will need a 240V outlet for anything 2HP or higher. Jet does have a 1-3/4HP model, but you will need a 20A 120V circuit for that.

On a small 9" bandsaw, you are going to be limited to blade widths of about 3/8". That's it! The big benefit of the larger 14" bandsaws is the ability to use larger blade widths up to 3/4" or even 1". With larger blade widths, you can get blades with more aggressive teeth and lower TPI (teeth per inch). This will give you faster cutting that requires less push pressure. The larger teeth on these wider blades will have more room for sawdust generated from the cutting. This means the teeth will cut away more wood in a faster manner than the smaller 3/8" blades on 9" bandsaw. This is if you are doing straight cuts. If you are carving curves, then a smaller blade would probably be needed and it will not cut as fast. On a small width blade with small teeth, you are no longer cutting, but you are actually "grinding".

Plus all the gearing and mechanisms as well as dust collection are much better on the 14" saws.

I know that I've been shouting about Harvey lately, but seriously, I'm not a Harvey spokesperson and actually think some machines are better from other manufacturers. But I would take a close look at the Harvey Ambassador C14. It's a very modern engineered machine and it's the only 14" bandsaw that supports a 1" blade. All the other 14" bandsaws I have seen are limited to 3/4" blade. It's, essentially, almost a 15" bandsaw (which is a step up category). It is 3HP, which requires a 240V outlet. It's currently on sale now (and frequently) for $1799, which is the same price level as the higher end Jet and Powermatic models. It's even cheaper than the $1999 Laguna 14|BX (and the Laguna is also limited to 3/4" blade). Another thing is that the Harvey has a foot brake (none of the other 14" models have foot brakes and you can forget about this on a 10" band saw).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03k_31PTNpA

Rant out, lol.

[Aaron Inami]

sorry, I re-read your post and it seems you want a low budget used saw that is a bench top. I re-checked and the 10" models allow up to 1/2" blade and have a slightly larger motor (1/2HP at 3.4A). If this is all you can fit, then it's up to you, but my recommendation still stands on getting a 14" to support the bigger 3/4" blade if you can swing it (maybe the lowest cost used 14" you can find that is in good enough condition for your preferences).

You mention feed pressure. The jigsaw is a good comparison, but with the jigsaw, you are pushing the blade into the wood. On a bandsaw, you are pushing wood INTO the blade. If you need to push hard to cut faster, there is more danger of shoving your fingers into the blade (which will definitely cut to the bone or past the bone).

[Doug Garson]

You say your main concern is with feed pressure, in my experience the only time feed pressure is an issue is when the blade is dull or the wrong blade for the job. The jig saw or bandsaw has little impact on the feed pressure required, it just moves the blade. When you changed your jig saw and the required feed pressure was reduced, did you also change the blade? That's probably what made the difference. So whether you get a 14" or 10" saw, make sure you get a quality blade, keep it clean and sharpen or replace it when it struggles to cut (takes more pressure and/or burns the wood).

[Dave Sabo]

if you're dead set on a benchtop saw , I think you're going to be disappointed with anything you find/buy.

Bandsaws rely mostly on inertia to keep the blade going and cutting. The bigger and heavier the wheels are, the easier to keep the inertia up. You also need horsepower, something bench top models lack in spades. They also tend to have frames made from thin steel or cast aluminum and even plastic skins - none of which help to combat vibration.

Don't assume a used saw will cost less than a new one. The Rikon 10-305 is on sale / clearance pretty much everywhere for 300 bucks. It's a lightweight, low powered , benchtop model , but it gets solid reviews from pretty much everyone that looks at it for what it is: a low cost , low capacity small bandsaw. The knocks on it are that the fence is an afterthought and the guide adjuster screws aren;t as accessible as other saws.

https://www.rikontools.com/product/10-305

The 10-306 would be a better choice having heavier iron wheels, bigger motor, a usable fence, and quick adjust guides. But it's gonna cost you 600 clams.

[Tom M King]

I have two 10", one 14", and one 24". The small ones are for small jobs. Big ones cut bigger stuff, and everything faster. Everything depends on what you need to do, and how fast you want to do it.

[John Lanciani]

Owning 14" Delta's ( three currently,) they would be both my first and second choice. Think of the 10" as a Smart Car, and a 14" as a dually pickup. Which one do you think will do the most work? Eventually you will want to upgrade from the 10" saw, so why not cry only once and get a 14". In my experience, when I upgraded from my Sears 12" to my first Delta 14", it was night and day difference. As for DC on the 14", many years back, I had the "Top Tip" in Wood magazine on improving dust collection WITHOUT cutting into machine.

Not trying to be contrary but if a 10" saw is a Smart Car a 14" is a minivan and a 20" saw is a 3/4 ton pickup. A 14" is probably the best all around saw size for a hobby shop but, just like a minivan, it has serious limitations. (For the record I currently have 19 band saws on the property :eek:)

[Cory filder]

so you convinced me about the 14 inch.
I have another question about that. I was planning on getting used one of good value. My budget will not allow for a Laguna. but in the neighbourhood of used Deltas of yesteryear.
so I suppose were talking about saws that are more than 20 years old

so the question I have is, what is comparable to all Delta?'s is craftex as good? king Canada? are there others that are comparable?

[Bill Dufour]

Do not lift a bandsaw by the table. The trunnions may snap. The table may also break when it is laid down. Lots of good old saws with broken trunnions. No one sells trunnions for older saws. Theoretically it is possible to make a table mount ridgid at 90 degrees only.
14 inch and bigger saws remove the table before moving.
Bill D

[Cory filder]

for a 14" used bandsaw's, Which are the best value? is at Delta or are there others?

[Jim Becker]

for a 14" used bandsaw's, Which are the best value? is at Delta or are there others?
For the most common form of older 14" bandsaw, there's not a whole lot of difference between them. Some are even parts interchangeable as they came out of the same factories with just different paint colors and other minor differentiators for a given brand. The "best" used machines likely carry the Delta, Jet, Powermatic, General, General International, Grizly, etc., brand names. If you are in Canada, there may be some other common brands. Older "house brand" machines are probably more of a gamble, but again, they likely were manufactured along side the "bigger brand" machines. Hopefully, you'll find one that's been well maintained.

[Richard Coers]

The achilles heal of any brand of used 14" band saws is the hinge/top shaft assembly for adjust blade tracking. Delta wimped out on material choice and engineering on that assembly. Probably 75% of used ones have a bend in that assembly. They can get so badly bent, that they can bind during blade tensioning, or run out out adjustment. Everyone reverse engineered Delta's design and it is a very common problem. Be sure to check out that part before buying a used saw. 497603

[Doug Garson]

Yep, that's where my Taiwanese clone of the Delta 14" broke, luckily there are replacements readily available. I now have an older Canadian made Rockwell Delta 14". There is a noticeable difference between it and the clone although the clone was a decent machine.