Oliver vs. Powermatic Planers

[Rob Will]

Now that I have seen a PM 225, I was wondering what features that the Oliver 299 had and how that the two machines compare. This may not be comparing apples but at least now I can use the 225 as a baseline to better understand the 299. Any details on these two boat anchors?

Rob

[Dev Emch]

It is not a fair comparision. The oliver 299 is a patternshop planer whereas the powermatic 225 was a lumber yard planer.

Being a lumber yard planer, it gets more abuse so its built larger and heavier. You feed motor usually has a forward and reverse drum switch to help back out jambs. The oliver feed motor only runs in one direction as ordered.

The 225 has about a 10 HP motor as stock. Of course, these can vary quite a bit esp. with later versions which used a discrete frame motor. The oliver 299 has a direct drive motor or DMD drive. But because the 299 was more oriented toward pattern shops, the cutter head was suspended with two super precision ABEC 7 bearings and the rotor was cantelevered of the main cutter head. The 225 used lessor bearings to save money.

In lumber yards, you see very rough lumber and you see very smooth lumber. It depends on the job your working on. Therefore, you have a lever to control micro adjust of your bed rollers on the 225. One will use a different setting for planing rough lumber as opposed to reducing planed lumber in thickness. Because the 299 works with more precise jobs, it was deemed unnecessary to equip the 299 with a lever to micro adjust the rollers. These are set with a precision dial indicator and locked down. Now I have seen an optional kit to allow the 299 to have a front mounted lever to control or micro adjust bed roller height.

There were three types of 299 planers. The type 3 had rubber belting and pulleys driving stuff like the bed rollers, etc. The type 1 and type 2 299s had drive shafts and full bore gears doing this. The concensus among 299 owners is that this older, more expensive system works better. If I am not mistaken, the matic 225 uses the more modern rubber belt and pulley system. Both approaches work and solve the problem. But I personally prefer the older system which is why I own a type 2 oliver 299.

Lastly, because the 299 was geared for small furniture shops and pattern shops, space was always an issue. Thus, the 299 has one of the smallest footprints for a full 24 inch planer. My type 2 oliver 299 takes up the same space as my old general 20 inch planer did. So for the same real estate, I pick up an extra 4 inches. The matic 225 is massively larger with an additional 1000 pounds or so. So part of the overwhelming popularity of the oliver 299 is that it can fit into many shops including converted garage shops and other space limited arrangements.

What really sold me was the preformance. I have planed a glass smooth surface onto walnut burl with no tear out using three HSS steel knives. This burl was slighly less than 1/4 inch thick also.

So in the end, it all depends on what your doing and what type of planer your looking for. If I were to replace my oliver, I would most likely spend the year of part time work restoring either a buss 4L-M or a model 44. But both of these require a full bedroom of space in your shop. Ouch!

[Rob Will]

Thanks Dev.
Having not seen a 299 or a Buss planer, it is hard to have a feel for the advantages of each machine. Sounds like the PM 225 will be a good choice for very rough lumber. It would be fun to go back to when these planers were new...fresh out of the factory.

Rob

[Dev Emch]

Thanks Dev.
Having not seen a 299 or a Buss planer, it is hard to have a feel for the advantages of each machine. Sounds like the PM 225 will be a good choice for very rough lumber. It would be fun to go back to when these planers were new...fresh out of the factory.

Rob

Dont get me wrong, the 225 is a great overall planer and excellent for super rought cut lumber. But comparing the 299 to a 225 is not exactly fair. Oliver did make one or two models that scale over 3000 pounds for this market as well. Dont quote me on the numbers, but I think these bigger machines were the 260 and 360. The 399 was a smaller 18 inch planer. Then you had the multi sided stratoplaners. For a smaller shop or hobby shop, you absolutely will not go wrong with a 399. But once again, I cannot say whether or not the 399 has a solid infeed roller or a segmented infeed roller. I would need to go back and re-read the brochures.

[Bill Simmeth]

I cannot say whether or not the 399 has a solid infeed roller or a segmented infeed roller.The ones I've seen are solid. Segmented might have been an option but I haven't seen it. Still, a real nice machine.

[Rob Will]

For what it's worth some literature lists the PM 225 at 3348 lbs. My owner's manual says 2885 lbs. The manual downloaded from OWWM agrees at 2885 lbs. Realistically, anything heavier would be hard to move even with a forklift. I have to admit that a Buss would have been a lot to handle. The 299 sounds like a classic precision tool.

This thing (225) is sitting in the shop door hooked up on SO cord. I'll be glad to get it set up and hardwired in a permanent home.

Rob

[Jeff Singleton]

We had a 225 with a 5 hp direct drive motor in our patternshop going on 26 years. We planned 8/4 pine and mahogany with no trouble and we were cooking at 90 ft. per minute, couldn't bog it down. Easy to adjust and sharpen, big footprint for a mid size 24" planer, the Buss, Greenlee ?, and Whitney are considered big for a 24". The 225 is a great American planer that has earned it's place in history. The 299 is a smaller footed 24 but not much lighter then the 225. Rich Fink at Eagle has told me more then once that the 299 is more in line with a finish planer, it has much slower feed rates then the 225. Oliver may have starved a few machines of horsepower but they never choked when it came to cast iron. The 299 is bascially a cube of cast iron, it's quiet, vibration free, and cuts great, just ask Dev. Oliver really did their homework when it came to the 299, it even has a rather large cult type following, why do you think they cost so much used, some people even think of them as collectible. Rightfully so the 299 has cast it's place in history. Either one is welcome in my shop, at least until the earth stops spinning.

Jeff Singleton

[Rob Will]

We had a 225 with a 5 hp direct drive motor in our patternshop going on 26 years. We planned 8/4 pine and mahogany with no trouble and we were cooking at 90 ft. per minute, couldn't bog it down.
Jeff Singleton

Jeff,
Why does my 225 have a 15 hp motor?

At first I thought I would swap it with one of my existing grain auger motors but have now realized that the 225 uses a 3450 rpm motor. Seems like a lot of motor for the task at hand. I would install a smaller motor if I had a use for the existing motor.

Rob

[Alan Turner]

15 hp? Wow. Must be for that 90 fpm feed rate.

I have the type 2 Oliver 299. It is pretty new to me. Haven't even ground the knives yet (they came to me ground freshly by the dealer).

I am getting a drop of snipe, and am thinking that the bed rollers are set a touch high. Where do you guys set yours? My dealer said he thought he set them at 20 thou.

Since this is the only planer in the new shop, it runs both rough and finished stock, but I am not a production shop, and am more interested in finish work. TIA for any guidance.

[Rob Will]

Hey, you guys have talked about this before:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=213260#poststop

Thanks for the info

Rob

[Alan Turner]

Rob,
CRS abounds.

[Jeff Singleton]

Rob, The PM 225 came with a number of different motors. I have seen them in 5 hp, 7 1/2 hp, 10 hp,and 15hp, 3 phase and 7 1/2 and 10 in single phase. The 5 hp I used was great but your 15 is a brute and uses more current and has more capacity for very heavy cuts. It is set up as ordered by the original owner. The one I use will be up for sale in the very near future, owner is moving shop south and doesn't need a planer as big as his 225.

Jeff Singleton

[Daniel Hall]

I appreciate the info on this site. I was reading this and just ended up buying a Powermatic 225 planer for my shop.

I was just letting anyone else know that I found a manual for it from Ozarkwoodworker.com

http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/item/powermatic-225-24-inch-planer-operator-parts-manua/

He has some pretty good manuals for old machines. He even has one for the old Buss 55 Planer here:

http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/item/buss-no-55-double-surface-planer-parts-manual/

Interesting info.

[Van Huskey]

I appreciate the info on this site. I was reading this and just ended up buying a Powermatic 225 planer for my shop.

I was just letting anyone else know that I found a manual for it from Ozarkwoodworker.com

http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/item/powermatic-225-24-inch-planer-operator-parts-manua/

He has some pretty good manuals for old machines. He even has one for the old Buss 55 Planer here:

http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/item/buss-no-55-double-surface-planer-parts-manual/

Interesting info.


You can find the PM 225 manual here for free download: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=826

[Daniel Hall]

That's true, but you can't argue that it's nice having a printed and bound manual next to the machine you are working on. Plus, I sometimes get tired of trying to read some grainy pdf diagram, and Ray has helped me a lot through emails and his prices are reasonable.

[David Kumm]

I don't know why this thread was brought back but I sure enjoyed reading it- as a 299 guy would. Always enjoyed Dev Emch posts and miss them a lot. Dave

[Stephen Cherry]

I don't know why this thread was brought back but I sure enjoyed reading it- as a 299 guy would. Always enjoyed Dev Emch posts and miss them a lot. Dave

Anybody who wants an education on machines, and some well thought out opinions, would do well to read Dev Emch's posts.