Best tool for small round tenons?

[roger wiegand]

I need to make several hundred handles for the stoppers in organ pipes. These will be glued to the stopper using a round tenon, 1/4 to 1/2" diameter, depending on the size of the stopper. I can turn them on my wood lathe, but getting a good fit requires time and attention. I'm wondering if there is a good tenon cutter I can use, preferably on the lathe, to quickly make an accurately sized tenon up to 3/4" long in that size range. Ideally it would leave a square corner so that the handles will sit down flush without further trimming. I see much larger ones for rustic furniture making from companies like Lee Valley, but they are too big and won't leave a square corner.

Here's a picture of some shapes I've been playing with:

495241

(posting in the general form rather than turning because I thought this is the sort of thing that people making things like square balusters might use)

[Clint Baxter]

I’ve had good luck using these for short tenons and/or dowels and plugs.
https://woodworker.com/5-piece-tenon-cutter-mssu-880-756.asp

Mine have a tendency to do some burning along the surface of the tenon due to the tight fit of the cutter.

You might be able to avoid that with a higher quality cutter such as ones made by Famag, https://www.fine-tools.com/zapfenschneider.html, but will be paying premium prices for better tools.

if you’re ok with a shorter tenon, I’ve found these carbide plug cutters, made by Amana, to work well. https://www.toolstoday.com/v-10274-55220.html. You could always square the end off on the lathe if you need a bigger shoulder.

Good luck,

Clint

[Brian Runau]

Related question. Why wouldn't you buy premade dowel and use a drill bit? thanks Brian

[Bradley Gray]

I get quick and accurate tenons using open end wrenches to gauge diameter.

[roger wiegand]

Related question. Why wouldn't you buy premade dowel and use a drill bit? thanks Brian

Thought about that, but the handles are small, I want to take the diameter down to the same size or smaller than the tenon immediately above the foot, it seems like an extra drilling step and extra gluing operation, as well as needing to cut short pieces of dowel. The handles need to be reasonably strong, after a while the stoppers can get pretty well stuck in the pipes and you need to apply some force to move them, so I want a (relatively) beefy tenon.

For the smaller pipes I'll turn the whole stopper as one piece, eliminating the need for a joint. In the bigger bass pipes that approach would waste a lot of wood.

[John Pendery]

I often do what Bradley suggested, but alternatively you can buy a sizing tool that attaches to a parting tool. It isn’t any more accurate than using an open ended wrench, but in that quantity the convenience might speed things up a tad. Look up Robert Sorby sizing tool and you’ll get a better idea of my poor description.

[roger wiegand]

I love the other FAMAG bits I have, but don't seem to find a US source for the cutters you link here. I see that there are multiple places that sell the similar (presumably Chinese) ones. I guess I'll give them a shot. The plug cutters will take an extra step to square the shoulder, not a deal breaker, but not ideal. Thanks for the leads, wasn't sure whether those cutters would work for this purpose.


I’ve had good luck using these for short tenons and/or dowels and plugs.
https://woodworker.com/5-piece-tenon-cutter-mssu-880-756.asp

Mine have a tendency to do some burning along the surface of the tenon due to the tight fit of the cutter.

You might be able to avoid that with a higher quality cutter such as ones made by Famag, https://www.fine-tools.com/zapfenschneider.html, but will be paying premium prices for better tools.

[roger wiegand]

An open end wrench is what I'm using now-- I thought about the Sorby tool, but was concerned with consistency/accuracy. I guess it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. Thanks!

[Maurice Mcmurry]

How about a mini CNC lathe? I see on the web that they supposed to be becoming fairly affordable.

Mini Benchtop Wood Lathe for Small Wood Crafts & Arts | STYLECNC (https://www.stylecnc.com/wood-lathe/mini-wood-lathe-for-wood-turning.html)

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[Jim Becker]

This might be a good task for a small metal lathe or at least the tooling mechanism from one as it allows for very precise and controlled cuts...you'll get the diameter you want nailed as well as the flat shoulder since it takes your hands completely out of the picture. When working with wood, it's natural for us to focus on tools that are hand guided, but some tasks really are best handled by turning a crank.

[Clint Baxter]

I love the other FAMAG bits I have, but don't seem to find a US source for the cutters you link here. I see that there are multiple places that sell the similar (presumably Chinese) ones. I guess I'll give them a shot. The plug cutters will take an extra step to square the shoulder, not a deal breaker, but not ideal. Thanks for the leads, wasn't sure whether those cutters would work for this purpose.

I've ordered from fine-tools.com before, especially to get metric items that are also "difficult to find a US source" for. Shipping costs and time for delivery weren't too bad, though I haven't done too many orders recently. Dieter Schmid has a lot of quality offerings available.

Clint

[Bill Dufour]

Rockwell made a cross slide for their wood lathes to allow limited metal turning. Maybe use a full width form tool for the tennon.
Bill D.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/134440215349

[roger wiegand]

Now we're talking!! I love this idea. Small enough that I might be able to sneak it into the shop.


How about a mini CNC lathe? I see on the web that they supposed to be becoming fairly affordable.

Mini Benchtop Wood Lathe for Small Wood Crafts & Arts | STYLECNC (https://www.stylecnc.com/wood-lathe/mini-wood-lathe-for-wood-turning.html)

495242

[roger wiegand]

I guess it could finally be time to learn to use one of the many metal lathes at the museum where I volunteer. Most of the machines just sit there, having someone actually using one would be a hit with the visitors.


This might be a good task for a small metal lathe or at least the tooling mechanism from one as it allows for very precise and controlled cuts...you'll get the diameter you want nailed as well as the flat shoulder since it takes your hands completely out of the picture. When working with wood, it's natural for us to focus on tools that are hand guided, but some tasks really are best handled by turning a crank.

[Mark Gibney]

That's a brilliant idea of using a metal lathe, Jim.

[Lee Schierer]

This might be a good task for a small metal lathe or at least the tooling mechanism from one as it allows for very precise and controlled cuts...you'll get the diameter you want nailed as well as the flat shoulder since it takes your hands completely out of the picture. When working with wood, it's natural for us to focus on tools that are hand guided, but some tasks really are best handled by turning a crank.

I had the same thought. You could chuck up a length of dowel and cut tenons on each end then turn two stops at the same time on your wood lathe either head to head or tenon to tenon.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I want one for drumsticks. I have just about decided I can get away with a better lathe and an old fashioned duplicator. I did come across this how its made video for a making whole bunch of round wood items accurately. It is long but some might enjoy it.


https://youtu.be/VOZSartJnfs

[Jim Becker]

That's a brilliant idea of using a metal lathe, Jim.

One of the folks I watch on the 'Tube is Ben from Crimson Guitars. In his home shop, he has a small metal lathe that he most often uses for the expected things...metal work. But occasionally, he employs it for some wood components where "getting it sized right" is critical. The ability to manipulate the cutter both forward and back as well as laterally (diameter) in very precise ways is exactly what I was thinking relative to Roger's situation. Pretty much a manually operated horizontal milling machine. I'd honestly love to add a small one of these to my shop someday.

[Jim Becker]

I want one for drumsticks. I have just about decided I can get away with a better lathe and an old fashioned duplicator. I did come across this how its made video for a making whole bunch of round wood items accurately. It is long but some might enjoy it.
Work support is the most challenging part of making things like that because vibration and wobble is NOT your friend. The duplication type accessories does help insure consistency in the shaping and that's critically important for drumsticks so they feel and weigh the same as pairs.

[Derek Cohen]

I need to make several hundred handles for the stoppers in organ pipes. These will be glued to the stopper using a round tenon, 1/4 to 1/2" diameter, depending on the size of the stopper. I can turn them on my wood lathe, but getting a good fit requires time and attention. I'm wondering if there is a good tenon cutter I can use, preferably on the lathe, to quickly make an accurately sized tenon up to 3/4" long in that size range. Ideally it would leave a square corner so that the handles will sit down flush without further trimming. I see much larger ones for rustic furniture making from companies like Lee Valley, but they are too big and won't leave a square corner.

Here's a picture of some shapes I've been playing with:

495241

(posting in the general form rather than turning because I thought this is the sort of thing that people making things like square balusters might use)


Roger, I use the Sorby Sizing Tool ….

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYmzSFqt/700-F08-E9-C754-4-C8-A-88-B7-99215-C98229-D.webp (https://postimg.cc/7JT9wfK2)

Chairmaker, Tim Manney, discusses his micro adjust for it here: http://timmanneychairmaker.blogspot.com/2014/05/micro-adjust-for-sorby-sizing-tool.html


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill Dufour]

FYI: A 14x40 metal lathe of modern design will have only a 1.5" spindle bore. If I had to make these I would make them in my 13x40 lathe. Chuck it buried in the chuck. Drill a center hole in he end of the stock. Extend it out enough for the tennon and cut that. then extend it all the way to form the curved part using a live center. part it off and maybe reverse the tennon into the chuck to smooth out the big end. No CNC required but...
Bill D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFWAHLYrgO8

[Bruce Wrenn]

Dado blade on table saw, using square stock. Watched WoodSmith Shop today, and that's how they did tenons on chair legs. Google " cutting round tenons on square stock," and several videos will pop up. You will have to make a couple different sized jigs to run in miter slot on TS. Cut a tenon on each end, then turn stock to needed size.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Work support is the most challenging part of making things like that because vibration and wobble is NOT your friend. The duplication type accessories does help insure consistency in the shaping and that's critically important for drumsticks so they feel and weigh the same as pairs.

Yes, I wish I could see inside the machines that do the tricky part at the Vic Firth factory. I have a process that works well on an antique toy lathe but it takes an hour to make a pair. Vic Firth is fairly good about their quality control. I have been in music stores with wood worker drummers and gotten embarrassed while they scrutinize every stick in the store before finding their pair, often from two different packages. Perfectly straight grain and both sticks made from the same split billet is where I start. All for a $10 item, it is silliness!

[Jim Becker]

Don't underestimate just how much a skilled musician can "feel" the difference here...the human body and mind can be pretty amazing.