Dear Veritas, is this just bad luck.

[John Northowl]

Hello Sawmill Creek. I will try to limit my rant, but never the less. I came back from the Lee Valley store today with a detail rebate plane and found out it was defective and needed to be shipped back for an exchange. This is the 5th time I am returning a plane in a years time for non cosmetic reasons.

First, I returned my combination plane because the skates were not aligned causing the blade to not fit.
Second, my large shoulder plane lever cap pivot was off meaning it could not be inserted,
Third, a low angle jack I got as a gift had a chipped blade and a chipped lever cap, (this was a seconds model, but the idea as i understand it is only cosmetic issues are passed)
Fourth, the custom 5 1/2 jack I bought had a mouth opening limit screw that didnt actually stop the mouth plate at all. screw too short? not seating correctly? I dont know. just it didnt work
And then this Fifth plane today, where the lever cap is so tight the blade cannot be sufficiently retracted.

I understand a few things, one, I have a lot of Veritas products and the vast majority work amazingly well as expected. And two, all companies have these issues, but what separates Veritas from many of the others is their stellar customer service.

Never the less, these are expensive products. Sometimes returning something might mean its unavailable again for some time, or not available at all if a blem model. Or simply having to wait for the returns process to kick in. Minor grievances I know. But my god do I feel unlucky.

[Bob Borzelleri]

When it comes to quality control and after purchase support, I think that we have entered into a new era of previously unchartered waters.

There are clearly manufacturers who still place a high value on putting out consistently high quality products and, at the same time, all too many folks who cut back on production quality during the economic troubles that came with the pandemic seem to have decided that the “understandable” reduction in quality and/or customer support during the pandemic is an acceptable baseline for performance expectations going forward.

My gut reaction is that Lee Valley would strive to keep themselves and their products in the former category, but strange things can happen when a heretofore relatively safe world begins to look much more fragile than any of us might have otherwise predicted.

[Richard Coers]

When it comes to quality control and after purchase support, I think that we have entered into a new era of previously unchartered waters.

There are clearly manufacturers who still place a high value on putting out consistently high quality products and, at the same time, all too many folks who cut back on production quality during the economic troubles that came with the pandemic seem to have decided that the “understandable” reduction in quality and/or customer support during the pandemic is an acceptable baseline for performance expectations going forward.

My gut reaction is that Lee Valley would strive to keep themselves and their products in the former category, but strange things can happen when a heretofore relatively safe world begins to look much more fragile than any of us might have otherwise predicted.
In decades past, every factory had inspectors. They the processes became better and one out of a batch was inspected. Today I get the feeling that the machinist relies so heavily on the CNC machines, that inspection is a thing of the past. Having constant emails about "where is my order" has also reinforced the no inspection with speed of shipping guiding the process. Let the customer be the inspector and repairman.

[mike stenson]

Threads like this are, while regrettable, one of the reasons I'm surprised that we have any handtool manufacturers left.

[Jim Koepke]

I came back from the Lee Valley store today with a detail rebate plane and found out it was defective and needed to be shipped back for an exchange. This is the 5th time I am returning a plane in a years time for non cosmetic reasons.

John, with this kind of luck, my suggestion would be to not leave the store without making sure the item you are buying meets your expectations.


And then this Fifth plane today, where the lever cap is so tight the blade cannot be sufficiently retracted.

Unless the lever cap is tight without the screw, the instructions say to have the blade lightly clamped when making adjustments:

494843

If that is the case then a return is in order.

If not, hopefully being the weekend you will be able to see this before you have it shipped back.

jtk

[John Northowl]

Thank you Jim. Unfortunately with the screw removed it is binding. I have the 3/8 version to compare it to, which does work well. I guess opening it on site is the most reasonable solution here. I don't live very near to any stores so returning is a pain.

[Larry Frank]

Sorry for the problems. Did you contact Lee Valley before you posted this rant?

IMHO I think it is fair to contact them first before posting a rant

[John Northowl]

Hi Larry, yes I have been in near constant contact with customer service over the last several years. I am not sure either that or this rant is very productive. I guess I was curious if others have had similar issues. Or maybe from other makers, Lie Nielsen, Woodriver, Bridge City, , etc. etc.

[Mike Brady]

I hope your experience with some unsatisfactory products is relatively unique, and not a sign of an emerging trend in manufacturing of the quality tools we like around here. It's not an easy task to sustain a business today.

[Jim Koepke]

I guess I was curious if others have had similar issues. Or maybe from other makers, Lie Nielsen, Woodriver, Bridge City, , etc. etc.

A few of my planes were purchased from Lie Nielsen. One of them, a #62 Low Angle Jack Plane, has an adjustable mouth plate that isn't to my liking:

494850

The machining on the closest edge is sloppy due to the original casting not being fully formed.

My request for a replacement mouth plate was turned down. There have been thoughts of seeing if they will sell me a replacement.

The mouth plate's condition is something my gut feels should be disclosed if this plane is ever listed for sale. When it arrived years ago there was a bit of disappointment, a bit more when my request for a replacement was rejected.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

I've had a couple issues with Lee Valley products over the years and they've never failed to take care of things. I have one right now that's a bit discouraging. I ordered a Skew Rabbet plane a week or so ago. It shipped promptly and was here in just a couple days. When I tried it out for the first time I noticed that the fence seemed pretty stiff, that is to say difficult to adjust. By comparison, the fence on my small plow plane slides on the rails like it's on bearings. This one is unusable. I sent a note to customer service this morning and will get an exchange going.

[Ben Schmidt]

A few of my planes were purchased from Lie Nielsen. One of them, a #62 Low Angle Jack Plane, has an adjustable mouth plate that isn't to my liking:

494850

The machining on the closest edge is sloppy due to the original casting not being fully formed.

My request for a replacement mouth plate was turned down. There have been thoughts of seeing if they will sell me a replacement.

The mouth plate's condition is something my gut feels should be disclosed if this plane is ever listed for sale. When it arrived years ago there was a bit of disappointment, a bit more when my request for a replacement was rejected.

jtk

The defect is on the inside of the mouth plate where it will never be seen and obviously doesn't impact function at all. However, I am surprised they didn't just send you another one, my experience with Lie Nielsen has been fantastic and above and beyond. I only buy from them when it comes to hand tools, and have never experienced the issues John has with his tools. Considering the prices between Veritas and LN are relatively the same, it would make sense to try LN in the future.

[John Northowl]

Considering the prices between Veritas and LN are relatively the same, it would make sense to try LN in the future.

In Canada we do not have that luxury alas. a Lie Nielsen 5 1/2 is more than double the cost of a Veritas custom 5 1/2

[Edward Weber]

In decades past, every factory had inspectors. They the processes became better and one out of a batch was inspected. Today I get the feeling that the machinist relies so heavily on the CNC machines, that inspection is a thing of the past. Having constant emails about "where is my order" has also reinforced the no inspection with speed of shipping guiding the process. Let the customer be the inspector and repairman.

While I don't have personal evidence, I do tend to agree.
It would seem that many companies, while becoming more automated, rely too heavily on their automated processes. Just because something looks good on paper, as it were, doesn't mean you don't need to inspect it. Manufacturing machinery wears, looses alignment and if not maintained, can cause errors, that's just a fact.
In the OP's case, I find it hard to believe that five separate issues with five different products isn't a red flag to look at quality control. Unless he's just the unluckiest guy in the world.

I know from a financial point of view some places find it less expensive to deal with the occasional "bad" product, rather than inspect every one, or even every run.

[Tony Wilkins]

I hope your experience with some unsatisfactory products is relatively unique, and not a sign of an emerging trend in manufacturing of the quality tools we like around here. It's not an easy task to sustain a business today.

I have many Veritas products and continue to buy them. I mentioned in another thread that a couple of chisels (a flushing chisel and a 5/16 mortise chisel) had fit and finish that surprised me. I didn’t contact Lee Valley because it didn’t effect use. It both instances it was ugly finishing in the interface between handle and metal. I still plan to buy from them but it does maybe indicate a downward trend in production quality.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I am in Ben’s camp. Most of the hand tools I purchased new are LN, with a few Lee Valley Veritas that LN doesn’t manufacture or, in the case of my shooting plane, an extreme price difference. I’ve never had an issue with any LN tool, new or used, except for my #62, which arrived with a couple of very tiny chips on the front knob. It was cosmetic and didn’t impact functionality, but I contacted customer service just to let them know and they sent me not only a replacement front knob but the rear tote as well so as to insure that the wood matched exactly. No questions asked, no charge whatsoever including free shipping, and didn’t ask for the originals to be returned.

This is not to imply that Lee Valley is the lesser of the two companies, but I do find their planes to be somewhat tricky to set up and the workmanship to be a bit inferior to LN. I notice that since production has increased post-Covid, LN’s tool availability has been much slower than Lee Valley’s. Perhaps in their haste to get tools to the marketplace, Lee Valley’s emphasis on quality control has slipped a bit. How else to explain the OP’s issues with 5 planes in one year?