Mini PC purchase. Maybe

[Michael Weber]

Not having been involved at all with Windows or PC’s since retiring a decade ago, I’ve not kept up with the particulars of different versions. I’m considering purchasing a mini PC. Kind of astonished at the prices for these little things (5x5x2.) I can get one with windows 10 or 11. Any reason in particular to avoid either of these versions? Thanks

[Ken Fitzgerald]

MIchael, I am using a desktop PC I bought 1 year ago. I started on it with Win10 and now running Win11 Home Version without any issues.

[Andrew More]

Windows 10 is likely going away. If you have to ask if there's a difference between them, then you probably want Windows 11 so that you don't have to upgrade.

[Ralph Boumenot]

I'd ditch windows and go with Linux Mint and the free open office suite. If you don't play games it is perfect and IMO leaps and bounds better then windows.

[Curt Harms]

Windows 10 is likely going away. If you have to ask if there's a difference between them, then you probably want Windows 11 so that you don't have to upgrade.

Not until October 2025 though. Will Windows 12 be out by then?

[Curt Harms]

I'd ditch windows and go with Linux Mint and the free open office suite. If you don't play games it is perfect and IMO leaps and bounds better then windows.

Unless you need to run software from Adobe, Intuit (Quick books) Autodesk etc. and require 100% file compatibility. I dual boot and have no issues at all. I just make sure to install Windows first then Linux, BSD whatever. If I install Linux first, Windows will overwrite GRUB the Linux bootloader. GRUB will find the Windows bootloader and add it to the list. I run Linux 99% of the time but there's one app that I need to run about 15 minutes/month and there is no substitute, doesn't even work on Mac.

[Bill George]

I use my Intel Nuc in the shop to run my CNC and lasers, its on Windows 10 Pro and is off the internet, does not need to update as it works fine for what I am doing. This is the first computer I have purchased new in years.

I picked up a like new MacBook Pro 2020 16 inch model with 16 Mb memory and 500 Gb solid state hard drive. Its partitioned with Windows 10 Pro on one side and of course Apple system on the other with Bootcamp I can use either side. The Win10 will be a backup for the shop. Lenovo All in One for the desktop here, again used from a college professor.

Would stay away from Win11 until they get the bugs worked out and will the software you want run on it??

[Jim Becker]

Bill, Win11 has been out for a long time now...any bugs are "normal" bugs at this point. That said, the changes in the UI are both good and bad. Good in that Win11 is more "Mac" like in initial appearance. :D Bad in that it's different enough that folks used to earlier versions have to think a little.

Michael, while I'm a MacOS person, if I had to have a Windows machine for some specific purpose, I'd seriously consider one of the small, compact units for the purpose, or an older Intel processor Mac Mini loaded with Windows. For new, I'd go Win11 because that makes the most sense long term. For the other example, I'd go Win10 because of hardware requirements. (Win11 requires certain security things to be in place for it to be compatible with the hardware one is going to run on it) On my desktop, I currently run Win11 under Parallels on top of MacOS and that suits my needs for the moment for my CAD/CAM software. (the only thing I use Windows for)

[Andrew More]

Not until October 2025 though. Will Windows 12 be out by then?

Perhaps? I'm struggling a bit with a number of Windows 10 boxen that won't go to 11 because of security nonsense. (I've got a background in IT before you ask). Why deal with the hassle if you don't have too? As for what might happen in the future, anything is possible, but trying to make a decision based on what might happen is folly. Maybe Windows won't be a thing in 2025? IDK, and I don't think it's relevant. I doubt MS is going to _lower_ the security requirements for whatever comes next.

[Bill George]

Thats what I am finding out Andrew with Windows 10 Pro, I tend to stay away from Mid Term Windows updates like the disaster Win 8 and of course Vista was! For what I use Windows for I have no need to upgrade to the headaches of yet another upgrade?? . I dumped Parallels off my Mac because of the BS and did the boot camp instead and Windows 10. Much happier with it, agree don't need hassle. The older Parallels was perfect, not this new one! As long as my CNC controller and laser software don't need upgrades I am ok.

[Lee DeRaud]

Michael, while I'm a MacOS person, if I had to have a Windows machine for some specific purpose, I'd seriously consider one of the small, compact units for the purpose, or an older Intel processor Mac Mini loaded with Windows.
Or, from a different direction, Win1X on the big box and Linux on the compact.

I got a tiny Wyse/Dell widget that cost under $100 just to play with Linux.
(That C-note included upgrading memory, SSD, and buying a KVM switch and cables: the "computer" itself was $18 on ebay.)

[Michael Schuch]

What is your use case for the mini pc? If it is just web surfing and general pc stuff a mini pc should do the job just fine. Games are usually where a full build PC is needed, mainly to support an advanced graphics card. Even my 6 year old PC and processor worked fine for editing 61mp photos with a fast storage system to back it up.

I just purchased a Mini PC off of AliExpress with three 1 gigabit ethernet ports and 2 additional 10Gbs GBIC ports to run OPNSense, a FreeBSD based packaged OS for firewalls. The price from AliExpress was pretty incredible... IF IT WORKS RELIABLY! A lot less than I would have spent on another hobbled name brand router that is compatible with DD-WRT. For a Windows mini-pc I would steer very clear of AliExpress, ebay and the likes as they usually come with a Windows OS installed with a pirated activation key that eventually gets blacklisted. The Mini PC's on Amazon should come with a genuine Windows OS, usually for less than a Windows license costs by itself.

It has been by experience that BeeLink makes good mini PC's for a reasonable price. I am a fan of ASUS in general and would put their mini PC's high on my list of possibilities.

Any 11th or 12th generation Intel processor should maintain Microsoft OS compatibility for many years to come. I usually steer towards AMD processors because they have historically usually been the best bang per buck. I wouldn't think twice about buying AMD or Intel these days. The little Intel ATOM processors are super cheap, come in super mini PC's and usually have all the power a typical web surfer / word processor will ever need... at very low power requirements. I have a Intel 5105 mini pc that I run my Linux based home automation system on. I was surprised at how quick it was even when running windows 11.

Like others I also got screwed on the Windows 10 to Windows 11 upgrade on my 6 year old motherboard/processor. I finally had to upgrade my workstation to a modern processor and motherboard that supports the "enhanced" security stuff in Windows 11.

The first thing I do on any Windows box is install OpenShell which allows me to make the GUI look like any version of Windows I want. I prefer the XP start menu and GUI so that is what I usually set it to under OpenShell. I HATE the way Microsoft is always rearranging things just so it looks different, definitely not better. The other thing I hate is all the BLOATware that comes in Windows OS's these days, One note, One Drive, Xbox junk, Games, Teams, etc. The second thing I do is remove all that junk, only to have it reappear a month later when Microsoft ships out a major OS update. OneDrive is a particularly pesky one to try to get rid of! It is like herpes, always showing up when you least want it to. Office 365 is another monthly fee abomination that Micerosoft wants to shove down our throats! I WILL NOT COMPLY! I use my old Office 2012 license or just install OpenOffice instead. I like both better than the Office 365 that I have to use at work.

I usually have a half dozen different OS's running under VMWare on my workstation for cross platform software development. You can do the same thing with Hyper V in Windows for free, just not as elegantly. Virtualization is a great way to check out different OS's and give them a try.

A mini pc is going to have very little upgrade path and the mini pc motherboards I have seen have been proprietary formats. A mini ITX will use standardized dimensioned parts... but it probably isn't worth the extra cost with as cheap as mini pc's are.

[Jim Becker]

Or, from a different direction, Win1X on the big box and Linux on the compact.

I got a tiny Wyse/Dell widget that cost under $100 just to play with Linux.
(That C-note included upgrading memory, SSD, and buying a KVM switch and cables: the "computer" itself was $18 on ebay.)
Linux would be useless for me since any such computer I'd consider would be specifically to run a Windows-only CAD/CAM application should I begin to have issues with using Parallels. I like and have used Linux and a whole bunch of other Unix and Unix-like OSs over the years, but they are not helpful for certain dedicated applications.

[Andrew More]

While I like and can operate in a Linux environment, Linux seems like a poor suggestion for anybody who hasn't been involved with Windows or PCs for a decade.

[Brian Elfert]

Not until October 2025 though. Will Windows 12 be out by then?

October 2025 is only a bit over two and a half years away. That isn't long in the computer world. Most home users are planning to keep any new PC for more than two and a half years. I'm already starting to think about Windows Server 2016 end of life which isn't until Jan 12, 2027.

[mike stenson]

Linux would be useless for me since any such computer I'd consider would be specifically to run a Windows-only CAD/CAM application should I begin to have issues with using Parallels. I like and have used Linux and a whole bunch of other Unix and Unix-like OSs over the years, but they are not helpful for certain dedicated applications.

That's why hypervisors exist though ;)

[mike stenson]

While I like and can operate in a Linux environment, Linux seems like a poor suggestion for anybody who hasn't been involved with Windows or PCs for a decade.

The OS has gotten to be far more user-friendly than it once was. However, I agree. That lack of application support is really an issue. That'd be why I've been an osx user for years now. Its fully application supported Unix.

In any case, the OS should really match the use case.

[Michael Weber]

Thanks all for the info and making me feel ignorant;). When personal computers became a thing I opted for a a Radio Shack Color computer as it used the 6809 microprocessor I was most familiar with. After using it a few weeks with a cassette tape recorder (I can still hear that download start up sound) I bought the matching hard drive. I paid over 500 dollars for that (10 Mb?) drive. It was the Bee’s knees. That’s the reason I am astonished at the price of these mini PCs. Like every interest I’ve enjoyed, computer
interest soon wained as a new interest came along and my knowledge became obsolete. No fancy uses planned for this. Maybe I’ll dig out the old Arduino IDK. Thanks again.

[Bill George]

Thanks all for the info and making me feel ignorant;). When personal computers became a thing I opted for a a Radio Shack Color computer as it used the 6809 microprocessor I was most familiar with. After using it a few weeks with a cassette tape recorder (I can still hear that download start up sound) I bought the matching hard drive. I paid over 500 dollars for that (10 Mb?) drive. It was the Bee’s knees. That’s the reason I am astonished at the price of these mini PCs. Like every interest I’ve enjoyed, computer
interest soon wained as a new interest came along and my knowledge became obsolete. No fancy uses planned for this. Maybe I’ll dig out the old Arduino IDK. Thanks again.

I started with the TRS80 Model One with yes 4Kb of memory, wow. Figured out how to hack and get more memory cheap and I loved that cassette tape recorder... could not wait to upgrade to the expansion model with the Disk Drive!! I also had the Color Computer, what an upgrade!!

[Lee DeRaud]

Thanks all for the info and making me feel ignorant;). When personal computers became a thing I opted for a a Radio Shack Color computer as it used the 6809 microprocessor I was most familiar with. After using it a few weeks with a cassette tape recorder (I can still hear that download start up sound) I bought the matching hard drive. I paid over 500 dollars for that (10 Mb?) drive.
That's dirt cheap. As I recall, the 320KB floppy drive for the Apple II was in the $300 range circa 1981.

[Jim Becker]

That's why hypervisors exist though ;)
Which I'm effectively already using with MacOS to run Windows 11. (Parallels) Adding Linux to the mix doesn't get me anything. :)

[Jim Becker]

Thanks all for the info and making me feel ignorant;). When personal computers became a thing I opted for a a Radio Shack Color computer as it used the 6809 microprocessor I was most familiar with. After using it a few weeks with a cassette tape recorder (I can still hear that download start up sound) I bought the matching hard drive. I paid over 500 dollars for that (10 Mb?) drive. It was the Bee’s knees. .
I cannot even tell you how many of those things and their cousins I sold back in the 1980s over a 7 year period...

[Michael Weber]

That's dirt cheap. As I recall, the 320KB floppy drive for the Apple II was in the $300 range circa 1981. I probably remembered incorrectly. Maybe confused because my first work DOS PC had a 10 Mb. The Color computer was surely in the low Kb range. Because the DOS PC had few programs available early on the company bought a board that allowed the PC to emulate an Apple (probably Apple II) computer. Wish I could remember the name. It came with the board, software, and all the necessary cables. Plugged into one of the PC’s slots. It worked but then PC software became available. Word Perfect, and the spreadsheet (name escapes me again) that lost out to Excel. don’t think we ever bought any Apple software and the board was soon surplus.

[Alan Lightstone]

I still remember the two decades or so where the computer you really want costs $5K. And I kick myself for not saving my first Apple II and TRS-80 with the cassette. Would look great on a shelf.

Last year I finally ran into the issue that my very high end Windows 10 machine (RAID 6 and RAID 1 arrays. You could run a medium-sized country with that computer) couldn't support a graphics card I needed to run high-end computer graphics, so I bit the bullet and bought a gaming machine with Windows 11. It was a disaster, had to be returned 3 times, the last time they shipped it dripping with liquid from a broken water cooling system. Well, got credit card company involved, and returned that disaster.

The new system from another company has been stellar, but I have run into several pieces of hardware that the manufacturers have intentionally taken the planned obsolescence route and they don't work with Windows 11. The Dymo label printers have been the worst. They're happy for you to spend an additional $300 for a new printer, that isn't as good as the old one. Ah, but a friend got me setup with a virtual machine, so I still can print on them with Windows 10, but what in incredible nuisance.

Yes, I liked the old UI better, but otherwise Windows 11 seems pretty solid.

[Curt Harms]

That's why hypervisors exist though ;)

I was thinking that;). Had VirtualBox running Windows under Ubuntu host for a little bit. It worked well and didn't seem resource intensive.

[mike stenson]

Which I'm effectively already using with MacOS to run Windows 11. (Parallels) Adding Linux to the mix doesn't get me anything. :)

No, and really and your use case is exactly why hypervisors exist for workstations (I do the same, I have one app I occasionally have to run on Windows). Unless you're running other things that require Linux, it buys nothing for most end users. We're not talking about doing baremetal virtual machines here. I mean, for me, if I could take at least some applications used to run automation and make them microservices, THEN it might be worth running Linux (for the OpenShift/Kubernetes side), and a VM for a single full Windows OS instance.

[Lee DeRaud]

Just to be clear, I'm not actually "using" Linux in the normal sense. There are a couple of open-source apps that I'd like to play around with, and it's much more convenient to compile them in a Linux/GNU environment, even to (eventually) get to a Windows executable. And yes, I know it's technically possible to do that within Win11, but I kept running into things that didn't quite work. A clean Ubuntu install is a lot easier to deal with.