A Proper Miter Shooting Board

[Phil Gaudio]

Finally got around to constructing a proper miter shooting board. As is normally the case, it takes longer than you might think, but the effort was worth it.
https://i.postimg.cc/QM2hPshz/IMG-3543.jpg (https://postimg.cc/8Fm2J2Fd)
https://i.postimg.cc/6pQW4YMM/IMG-3541.jpg (https://postimg.cc/fJ6n6jnd)

https://i.postimg.cc/gksc0fHw/IMG-3540.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qztHbDY0)

https://i.postimg.cc/TPLTChMm/IMG-3539-1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/jWTVjxjd)

[William Fretwell]

Are you going to build another for right angles? Varnishing the wood rubbing surface, then adding beeswax can reduce friction.

[Phil Gaudio]

Already have that one. I sanded and waxed the bare wood: smooth sailing!

[Derek Cohen]

Phil, I recommend that you add a side fence to your board …

https://i.postimg.cc/9csZd6mS/A10c-zps9d2319e8.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Planing a mitre is more difficult than planing square because the shape of the mitre wants to move the plane in the same direction. This will make it difficult to sustain the shape (generally, the end of the mitre is not fully planed).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Gaudio]

You may have noticed the seemingly unused real estate on the right side of the board: this is where an adjustable fence will be installed to handle both the #9 and the #51. Version 2.0 if you will. Stay tuned.

[Phil Gaudio]

And here we have version 2.0 which includes the outside guide fence. A quick trial run on some sample boards produced good results, but I am not sure that the outer fence is all that necessary, assuming a very sharp blade and good technique. Time will tell.

https://i.postimg.cc/fb6t2KRQ/IMG-3545.jpg (https://postimg.cc/NykjLRXd)
https://i.postimg.cc/MTVchQnM/IMG-3546.jpg (https://postimg.cc/dkQtCDmw)

[Jim Koepke]

I am not sure that the outer fence is all that necessary

Good shooting can be done without the outer fence. The outer fence makes for one less thing to cause a problem. This helps to increase accuracy while quickening the work flow.

jtk

[Joel Gelman]

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared.html

interesting the 51/52

[scott lipscomb]

Nice miter shoot board...How is the far side, or opposite angle side used? Seems like it would result in a lot of blow out, or is the plane reversed for the opposite operation?

[Phil Gaudio]

Key feature of the no. 9 miter plane: it can shoot from both directions. The handle screws in on either side as needed.

[Derek Cohen]

The LN #9 is indeed a nice shooting plane (or was, as it is no longer offered, I believe). However ... if you know how to hold the Veritas LA Jack, the LAJ is a sweeter and better shooter. The condition here is "if you know how to hold the LAJ". For beginners, the #9 is easier to use and would be preferred. I detailed the reason in 2011 in the article link that Joel supplied, above.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Reed Gray]

Haven't gotten to shooting miters, but have wondered if the board being trimmed will want to creep forward into the cut as you trim it up? No one seems to clamp the board in place, so, I am thinking no.

robo hippy

[Phil Gaudio]

Miter Shoot Board: Version 3.0


This shoot board was purpose built to use with a no. 9 miter plane. After adding the outside guide fence (refer to version 2.0) I learned something about the no. 9 that was news to me, and I suspect will be news to others: the plane was not designed to be used on a track, which is essentially what is made when an outside guide is added to a shoot board. Unlike the no. 51 plane which was purpose built to run on a track, the no. 9’s geometry is not conducive to successful use on a tracked shoot board. Although the base and the sides of the plane are at 90 degrees, the top of the plane is not parallel to the sole. As such, the outside fence only contacts the top of the plane at its highest point. Although the 51 was/is machined to have two parallel edges to run against the inner and outer guides, the no 9 is not manufactured this way. So I have settled on a no-outer fence configuration for this shoot board (unless the 51 is being used).


I believe the No. 9 was Stanley’s more economical answer to those fancy infill miter planes of the day. I wonder if the infills of the day were manufactured to have the ability to run in a track?

[scott lipscomb]

My question above was related to the Stanley 51. The miter fence on the top would not be used, I assume, and that instead, you would flip the opposite side miter and shoot it upside down? Or, is a flippable plane the better method? Trying to figure out the best tool to make a bunch of frames I have coming up and I have a 51 and a Lee Valley bevel up smoother.

[Phil Gaudio]

There are no doubt lots of ways to skin this cat. David Charlesworth favored the bevel down/higher angle option of the 5-1/2 (or was it a 6). There is a bit of technique involved, but I think most woodworkers could master any of the approaches with a modest investment of time. The no. 9 with such a large bearing surface is very nice to use, and with a sharp blade, I have been producing 1-2 thou. shavings of maple with some degree of consistency. No doubt, the 51 is the plane to beat. But when you want to shoot miters from two opposing directions, you are now looking at both the 51-right and the 51-left: maybe someday......


The LN #9 is indeed a nice shooting plane (or was, as it is no longer offered, I believe). However ... if you know how to hold the Veritas LA Jack, the LAJ is a sweeter and better shooter. The condition here is "if you know how to hold the LAJ". For beginners, the #9 is easier to use and would be preferred. I detailed the reason in 2011 in the article link that Joel supplied, above.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Gaudio]

Yes indeed it does. But this can be countered with some practice: its not all that difficult really.


Haven't gotten to shooting miters, but have wondered if the board being trimmed will want to creep forward into the cut as you trim it up? No one seems to clamp the board in place, so, I am thinking no.

robo hippy

[Phil Gaudio]

You are absolutely correct. With the 51, you can only go in one direction. To shoot the opposing angle on this miter board, you would need a 5- left as a compliment the 51-right. Using either the no. 9 or a Low Angle Jack or a Standard Bench plane (a' la David Charlesworth) allows you to approach from either direction and they would work just fine on this board. I would suggest (to everyone) watching David Charlesowrth's Excellent Video "Precision Shooting Simplified". You don't need any special planes, just a simple jig and some practice.


My question above was related to the Stanley 51. The miter fence on the top would not be used, I assume, and that instead, you would flip the opposite side miter and shoot it upside down? Or, is a flippable plane the better method? Trying to figure out the best tool to make a bunch of frames I have coming up and I have a 51 and a Lee Valley bevel up smoother.

[Joel Gelman]

Appreciate the comments in this thread and the info from Derek in particular. This morning I called LN They had only one #51 in right in stock. As for the left, they said they sell way more of the right, but there is a supply issue on the left with manufacturing and for the left they could be more than a year out. I was not looking to buy both, and so I bought the right. Then I went to Lee Valley and purchased the shooting board. I understand I could make my own, but too many other projects of higher priority.

I think I should have had this setup a long time ago. I became focused on machinery and now that I have all of the machines, I realize while they surely are nice to have and use, I am better served with also having more planes and chisels and jigs and being way better at hand tool and sharpening skills.

[Derek Cohen]

Haven't gotten to shooting miters, but have wondered if the board being trimmed will want to creep forward into the cut as you trim it up? No one seems to clamp the board in place, so, I am thinking no.

robo hippy

Reed, this is so. I mentioned earlier that a side fence for the plane is advisable - not essential, but advisable - as geometry and force vectors want to push the wedge away from the main fence, and push the plane away at the same time. This is one of the reasons why a heavy plane beats a light plane when shooting. Using a hold down (which I have not done, but only as I have been too lazy to add one) would remove one if the two areas of weakness.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

My question above was related to the Stanley 51. The miter fence on the top would not be used, I assume, and that instead, you would flip the opposite side miter and shoot it upside down? Or, is a flippable plane the better method?

Scott, the work could be done either way. On one of my projects the molding miters were all shot using one side of the board with a 45º guide block:

494310

My latest shooting board is set up to be ambidextrous:

494311

The same 45º guide can be used on either side of the board for flat work or like a donkey ear. One side is set up for a Veritas LH Shooting Plane. The other side uses an LN #62 or just about any other plane in the shop.

jtk

[William Fretwell]

Holding the LV low angle jack requires a ‘hot dog’. It has a groove to fit the plane edge and two rare earth magnets inset in the dog groove. Once attached it does not move and makes it very comfortable to use the plane.
494315
My outer fence exerts no pressure on the plane, it would only put pressure on the bottom of the plane. My right hand applies an even pressure across the plane. My left hand keeps pressure on the work, applying more pressure as the end you are working becomes less ragged.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi William

Nice hotdog!

I began making hotdogs for the Veritas LA Jack in 2007: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Hotdog%20for%20the%20LV%20LAJ1.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Hotdog%20for%20the%20LV%20LAJ1_html_1a7f2afc.j pg

It was a revelation and significance advance for shooting, especially with this plane.

I posted a follow up in 2008, with an easier method for construction: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Building%20the%20Hotdog%20Mk%20II%20for%20the%20LV %20LA%20Jack%20pics.html

So I agree with you about the value of a hotdog, and not just for the LAJ.

I've been using the LAJ since 2004. I think everyone should have this plane. While it is not the go-to for smoothing (better for panels you want to be flat) or jointing (better for short boards), it can excel at shooting and planing end grain. Along the way I found that the Veritas LAJ does not require a hotdog - unlike all the other low angle jacks. The reason for this is the combination of the dimple in the side (as a finger grip) and the shape of the lever cap (which facilitates a secure grip and also allows one to push the plane against the side of the platform). I suspect that you are doing something like this as well.

I wrote this in that article (cited earlier):

The correct way (in my opinion) of holding the LAJ (and shooting planes generally), is to exert downforce at a central point while simultaneously exerting low lateral sideforce. One must not attempt to simply push the plane against the sidewall to the shooting board. This will unbalance the plane and cause it to cant over.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared_html_309f013.jpg

Downforce is applied by the thumb directly into the dimpled fingerhole. Sideforce is applied by the four fingertips pushing from under the levercap.

Contributing to “tippiness” is the amount of “run up” to the board that is used. Many – both experienced and novices alike – would draw the plane back to the start of the runway, and then push it forward fast in an attempt to create momentum, as if this was necessary to power through the end grain. Shooting in this manner would lead to user losing control of the plane.
What is necessary for control is minimum run up. Place the plane with the blade nearly touching the near edge of the board, and then simply push the plane forward, with even pressure and firmly. Since the shaving removed is very fine, a plane with a sharp blade will cut without much effort. Once this was understood, the extra mass of the LAJ was an advantage over the more stable #9.

The side fence is not essential - shooting boards have been used for a long, long time without them. I acquired a Stanley #51/#52 in 2006, and this opened my eyes to the ease of shooting when the plane is trapped. Accuracy is guaranteed as the side fence resists any off-axis movement by the plane. Some planes cannot use a side fence - as reported above by Phil - and a shooting plane I made ran into similar problems because the blade was low to the side. It was necessary to keep the side fence low and remove unnecessary screws ...

https://i.postimg.cc/26PMgKQG/Buildinga-Strike-Block-Plane-html-71a1e942.jpg

I would add a side-fence to your shooting board and then decide whether it helps or not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Since this thread is about shooting mitres, here is another mitre shooting board. I made it a long time ago (before I started using side fences), called it The Carousel Shooting Board. The one Phil made is better for a dedicated mitre shooting board, but this one is a great all-rounder.

Making use of brass angle ...

https://i.postimg.cc/cCkGsJv6/2.jpg

Right-sided mitre ...

https://i.postimg.cc/yx8z4RYw/3.jpg

Left-sided mitre ...

https://i.postimg.cc/MTD8F5x7/5.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Gaudio]

I thought it might be instructive to show some simple tasks that this shooting board can handle, and equally simple tasks that this shooting board can't handle. So far, most of the examples shown have used foursquare lumber and I have not encountered any particular challenges dealing with this simple configuration. Its gets more interesting when a profile is introduced. I had a scrap of molding in the scrap pile that shows a very simple profile: rounded-over on top. In the first example, lets look at an inside corner made with this stock:

https://i.postimg.cc/4ydLNZPr/IMG-3551.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ftGjBG6K)

Now lets look at how these parts are shot on the shooting board. Note that the entry point of the blade is on the face or money side of the molding, providing a nice clean cut. The exit is on the back of the workpiece which is fully supported by the miter fence, so no breakout is expected here: this is an ideal situation.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzBPYqn1/IMG-3550.jpg (https://postimg.cc/64CVSHKN)

Now lets look at the same molding used for an outside corner. Should be a piece of cake, right. Well, maybe. Here is the molding configuration:

https://i.postimg.cc/NMbCcL66/IMG-3553.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TLLJjdH1)

And here are the parts set up on the miter shooting board:

https://i.postimg.cc/HxTvRbyW/IMG-3552.jpg (https://postimg.cc/06HCJMnh)

You can see that the blade will enter the cut on the back side of the part and exit on the money side: not good, particularly since so much of the profile is unsupported: you would need the negative shape of the molding profile backing up the stock in this configuration. Maybe if we flip things around a bit (after all, how hard could this be, right?):

https://i.postimg.cc/jqg33wdK/IMG-3554.jpg (https://postimg.cc/dDC9L0yS)

So, no dice. We are still entering the cut on the back side of the stock and exiting on the money side, with the profile part still unsupported.

It would seem that when you introduce a profile to molding that is to be shot, you also introduce a degree of complexity in terms of the required jig. I have a feeling I will be reading up on Donkey"s Ears in the near future. Stay tuned.

[Johannes Becker]

Using the LAJ for miter shooting was exactly my plan. Unfortunately it works only for one side with a fence since the sides of the plane have different heights (at least for my plane).

494372

[Phil Gaudio]

Using the LAJ for miter shooting was exactly my plan. Unfortunately it works only for one side with a fence since the sides of the plane have different heights (at least for my plane).

494372

That is surprising: the sides of my Lie Nielsen LAJ are identical. In any case, forget the outer fence, it is of questionable value (IMHO). Regardless of the sidewall height difference, as long as the sides are 90 degrees to the base, you should be good to go from either direction.

[Johannes Becker]

ah, that may be the difference. I have a Lee Valley LAJ and did not pick up on the point that everybody else was referring to the LN one.

[Robert Hayward]

Regardless of the sidewall height difference, as long as the sides are 90 degrees to the base, you should be good to go from either direction.
I recently received a new Veritas hand specific shooting plane that came out of the box with a paper note that said the plane was intentionally ground to less than 90 degrees. I found the note surprising to say the least, but looks like that is the way they are made.

[Johannes Becker]

Yes, the shooting works but not with an additional fence. I use my straight shooting board with the LV shooting plane and like it very much (I copied Derek's design for the shooting board). So I just build it with a fence and it worked well... until I wanted to shoot the other direction. So no I am thinking whether to discard the fence or to mill down the one side of the plane to height.

[Derek Cohen]

ah, that may be the difference. I have a Lee Valley LAJ and did not pick up on the point that everybody else was referring to the LN one.

Johannes, I was indeed referring to the Veritas and not the LN. It is a while since I used the LN, and cannot recall if the lever cap facilitates being used as a hand hold (which the Veritas does). The sides on my LAJ are the same. So should yours - the Veritas shooting board track works includes a side fence, so this is understood by the. Contact their support service.

I am going to respectfully disagree with Phil about the usefulness of the side fence. Try it first, then decide for yourself.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Gaudio]

You will recall from my earlier post that the miter shooting board did some things well and some things not so well. It was clear that I needed a different shooting board configuration: a donkey's ear. Here is the jig and the C/D samples: you can see how these parts will be fully supported throughout the cut. The dual fence design enables shooting from either direction. I think I am well fixed for shooting boards at the moment: and I should be able to shoot inside and outside miters on applied moldings with ease.

https://i.postimg.cc/NffJdRhP/IMG-3561.jpg (https://postimg.cc/s1q4XQgp)
https://i.postimg.cc/SxnZhqx6/IMG-3562.jpg (https://postimg.cc/mPG3YvMk)

[Derek Cohen]

Phil, the Donkey’s Ear looks good. It looks well thought out and beautifully constructed.

One piece of advice I have is that there is an inherent weakness in the design - it is a human weakness and not a build weakness, and it is not a criticism of you (in the least), but aimed at the tendency we have when we give our trust to machines and jigs.

I began making adjustable fences for shooting boards many years ago. Here is one made in 2008: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Advances%20in%20a%20ramped%20shooting%20board.html

https://i.postimg.cc/4fngtph4/Shootingfor-Perfection-html-m3f021a61.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/nFrdTkk5/ShootingforPerfection_html_554618a7.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

This is just one design. I came up with others. For years I built adjustability into the shooting boards I made.

Eventually it dawned on me that this was unnecessary. The correct technique would deal with any change in support behind the edge. The support can change all the time - shooting with a deeper blade projection will do this. The solution is that one adds a fine bevel to the rear of the edge to-be-planed, and plane this away. This is all that is needed, and when one does it, any dependency on the fence to prevent blow out will disappear.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I recently received a new Veritas hand specific shooting plane that came out of the box with a paper note that said the plane was intentionally ground to less than 90 degrees. I found the note surprising to say the least, but looks like that is the way they are made.

Robert, there is an immense difference between a specification of tolerance in production and something being, "intentionally ground to less than 90 degrees."

If you read carefully it says, "We purposely ensure that our shooting plane is ground to 90° or less to a tolerance of 0.003".

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

I just received the Veritas donkeys ear a week ago. Time will tell how it fares. I want to make a dedicated board with the plane tilted at 45 to compare to the donkeys ear.

I couldn't find a donkey's ear on the Lee Valley site, can you post a link?

Another useful tool if one shoots a lot of miters, especially of moldings, is a miter jack.

Here are a couple >

https://www.benchcrafted.com/miterjack

https://redrosereproductions.com/miter-jack/

jtk