Edwin Dodds
01-27-2006, 4:06 PM
Well, I finally purchased a new tablesaw. After much research (on this forum and others), and after looking at several saws up close, I chose the Delta 36-717 “Hybrid” cabinet saw.
I wanted a saw with an enclosed cabinet base for efficient dust collection, but I’m not a full-time woodworker so I didn’t need a big 3 or 5hp saw. That narrowed my search down to 4 saws – General 50-220, Dewalt 746, Craftsman 22124 (zip-code) saw, and the Delta 36-717. (Grizzly and Jet are not easily available in Canada.)
After close examination I ruled out the General for 3 reasons. The saw requires a motor with an unusual mounting configuration. If you ever need to replace the motor you have to go back to General, or get it rewound. Second, the motor belt drives a jackshaft, and then a short (multi–vee) belt runs from the jackshaft to the arbor. Again, if you had to replace that short belt, it might be difficult to find at a local hardware store – and there’s no way to adjust the tension on the belt, so the length of it has to be exactly correct. Thirdly, the size of the throat insert seems non-standard (although I didn’t have a tape measure with me), it was different from all the other saws on the floor (General and Delta).<O:p
I did not have the opportunity to see the Dewalt in person, so the only information I have is from articles I have seen and read. As with the General, this saw uses a motor with a unique mount – only available from Dewalt. Cast iron wings are not included (optional). I understand the back of the cabinet is open, and dust is collected from a shroud around the lower portion of the blade. Reviews seem mixed as to how well that works. Ditto for the fence.<O:p
The Craftsman looked a lot better. It uses a common rigid base motor mount, so its easy to find a replacement motor if needed. Cabinet mounted trunions for easy blade alignment. Excellent Biesemeyer commercial fence. I didn’t like the design of the miter gauge, although some feel it’s great. The outfeed extension table on the back seemed very cheap and flimsy – I’d be ashamed to have that on my saw! I know it doesn’t affect the performance any, but I didn’t particularly like their paint scheme for the saw. Here in Canada, the Craftsman is more expensive than the Delta. Even at the best sale price, its $200 dollars above what I paid for the Delta. <O:p
That brings us to the Delta. 1 3/4hp, 15A, dual capacitor TEFC motor with a rigid base mount. Made by the same company as the Craftsman, everything under the table is the same except the trunions are table mounted. I would have preferred cabinet mounted, but how often do they need alignment? Time will tell! Someone pointed out to me that with cabinet mounted trunions, if you bang into the corner of the table with something heavy and the table moves, now you need to re-align the blade. He might have a point, but I think you’d have to hit it pretty hard to move it! The miter gauge that comes with this saw is very good. It has a locking finger (much like a miter saw) that engages every 15 degrees, the engagement points are all adjustable, and it rotates all the way to 60 degrees (not just 45) each way.<O:p
After unpacking everything, I placed the cabinet on a mobile base (recommended – it’s a heavy saw), and began a thorough inspection. My first concern was with the extension wings. One had a .010 dish in it; the other had a .021 dish. Delta told me that the tolerance for flatness on the table/wings is .012, and offered to replace the bad one. However, I wanted better than that, so I took them both into work (I’m a machinist) and ground them myself – they are now both within .001. I should mention that the main table was very good – within .003, and the ground finish on both the wings and the main table was absolutely superb. Contrary to what the manual says, I decided to check the trunion alignment before installing the wings and fence rails because access to the undercarriage is a lot easier without them installed. Trunion alignment was off by .012, so I loosened the 4 bolts and adjusted it. The bolts are fairly easy to reach, I got it within .001, and the whole process took about 20 minutes. It was not hard to do. While I was under there, I checked the drive belt pulley alignment, and discovered that it was out about 3/8”. I tried to loosen the (small, metric) setscrew on the motor pulley, but the head immediately stripped! I had to remove the motor and drill out the setscrew. I then installed a larger ¼-28 setscrew in the pulley and re-assembled everything. I also checked arbor and flange runout with a .0005 dial indicator – the needle never even moved. At this point I decided to run the saw and see if there was anything else that might need tuning before installing the wings. The saw ran fine, but on shutdown the whole saw would develop a shaking motion before coming to a stop. The motor bolts to a cast iron plate, which pivots on 2 pins when the blade is cranked up and down. I found there was excessive clearance between the holes in the plate and the pivot pins (.012 on one, .018 on the other). Delta tried to tell me the shaking is from the belt, and the clearance is there so the motor can rotate up and down freely! Freely is one thing – sloppy is another. Anyway, I removed the motor (again!), removed the plate and the pins and wrapped the appropriate size shim stock around each pin that would eliminate the play and still allow it to rotate. I carefully re-assembled everything and tried it again. WOW! What a difference. The saw was now rock solid. Now confident that everything was all right, I installed the extension wings and the Biesemeyer fence. <O:p></O:p>
The saw is not noisy (as tablesaws go), and it has lots of power. On one of the woodworking forums someone was questioning the 3000 RPM blade speed as posted by Delta. All I can say is the label on my motor states 3450 RPM, and both pulleys are the same diameter (2”), so unless the motor is labeled incorrectly, the blade speed is 3450. <O:p
With the saw now running so smooth I decided to give it the nickel test. It was no problem at all to get the nickel on its edge with the saw running. Feeling confident, I shut the saw off, and the nickel never even flinched! I then restarted the saw – no movement at all. In short, with a nickel standing on its edge I can start and stop the saw anytime, and it won’t topple over! Very impressive.
I don’t know if any saw is 100% perfect out of the box, but I feel I had to do a bit more fine tuning with mine than I should have. However, I now have a saw that is a joy to use – quiet, vibration free, accurate, great dust collection, an excellent fence, and I even like the paint color!
This ended up being a lot longer post than I had planned!, but hopefully it can be of help to anyone else out there looking for a new saw.
I wanted a saw with an enclosed cabinet base for efficient dust collection, but I’m not a full-time woodworker so I didn’t need a big 3 or 5hp saw. That narrowed my search down to 4 saws – General 50-220, Dewalt 746, Craftsman 22124 (zip-code) saw, and the Delta 36-717. (Grizzly and Jet are not easily available in Canada.)
After close examination I ruled out the General for 3 reasons. The saw requires a motor with an unusual mounting configuration. If you ever need to replace the motor you have to go back to General, or get it rewound. Second, the motor belt drives a jackshaft, and then a short (multi–vee) belt runs from the jackshaft to the arbor. Again, if you had to replace that short belt, it might be difficult to find at a local hardware store – and there’s no way to adjust the tension on the belt, so the length of it has to be exactly correct. Thirdly, the size of the throat insert seems non-standard (although I didn’t have a tape measure with me), it was different from all the other saws on the floor (General and Delta).<O:p
I did not have the opportunity to see the Dewalt in person, so the only information I have is from articles I have seen and read. As with the General, this saw uses a motor with a unique mount – only available from Dewalt. Cast iron wings are not included (optional). I understand the back of the cabinet is open, and dust is collected from a shroud around the lower portion of the blade. Reviews seem mixed as to how well that works. Ditto for the fence.<O:p
The Craftsman looked a lot better. It uses a common rigid base motor mount, so its easy to find a replacement motor if needed. Cabinet mounted trunions for easy blade alignment. Excellent Biesemeyer commercial fence. I didn’t like the design of the miter gauge, although some feel it’s great. The outfeed extension table on the back seemed very cheap and flimsy – I’d be ashamed to have that on my saw! I know it doesn’t affect the performance any, but I didn’t particularly like their paint scheme for the saw. Here in Canada, the Craftsman is more expensive than the Delta. Even at the best sale price, its $200 dollars above what I paid for the Delta. <O:p
That brings us to the Delta. 1 3/4hp, 15A, dual capacitor TEFC motor with a rigid base mount. Made by the same company as the Craftsman, everything under the table is the same except the trunions are table mounted. I would have preferred cabinet mounted, but how often do they need alignment? Time will tell! Someone pointed out to me that with cabinet mounted trunions, if you bang into the corner of the table with something heavy and the table moves, now you need to re-align the blade. He might have a point, but I think you’d have to hit it pretty hard to move it! The miter gauge that comes with this saw is very good. It has a locking finger (much like a miter saw) that engages every 15 degrees, the engagement points are all adjustable, and it rotates all the way to 60 degrees (not just 45) each way.<O:p
After unpacking everything, I placed the cabinet on a mobile base (recommended – it’s a heavy saw), and began a thorough inspection. My first concern was with the extension wings. One had a .010 dish in it; the other had a .021 dish. Delta told me that the tolerance for flatness on the table/wings is .012, and offered to replace the bad one. However, I wanted better than that, so I took them both into work (I’m a machinist) and ground them myself – they are now both within .001. I should mention that the main table was very good – within .003, and the ground finish on both the wings and the main table was absolutely superb. Contrary to what the manual says, I decided to check the trunion alignment before installing the wings and fence rails because access to the undercarriage is a lot easier without them installed. Trunion alignment was off by .012, so I loosened the 4 bolts and adjusted it. The bolts are fairly easy to reach, I got it within .001, and the whole process took about 20 minutes. It was not hard to do. While I was under there, I checked the drive belt pulley alignment, and discovered that it was out about 3/8”. I tried to loosen the (small, metric) setscrew on the motor pulley, but the head immediately stripped! I had to remove the motor and drill out the setscrew. I then installed a larger ¼-28 setscrew in the pulley and re-assembled everything. I also checked arbor and flange runout with a .0005 dial indicator – the needle never even moved. At this point I decided to run the saw and see if there was anything else that might need tuning before installing the wings. The saw ran fine, but on shutdown the whole saw would develop a shaking motion before coming to a stop. The motor bolts to a cast iron plate, which pivots on 2 pins when the blade is cranked up and down. I found there was excessive clearance between the holes in the plate and the pivot pins (.012 on one, .018 on the other). Delta tried to tell me the shaking is from the belt, and the clearance is there so the motor can rotate up and down freely! Freely is one thing – sloppy is another. Anyway, I removed the motor (again!), removed the plate and the pins and wrapped the appropriate size shim stock around each pin that would eliminate the play and still allow it to rotate. I carefully re-assembled everything and tried it again. WOW! What a difference. The saw was now rock solid. Now confident that everything was all right, I installed the extension wings and the Biesemeyer fence. <O:p></O:p>
The saw is not noisy (as tablesaws go), and it has lots of power. On one of the woodworking forums someone was questioning the 3000 RPM blade speed as posted by Delta. All I can say is the label on my motor states 3450 RPM, and both pulleys are the same diameter (2”), so unless the motor is labeled incorrectly, the blade speed is 3450. <O:p
With the saw now running so smooth I decided to give it the nickel test. It was no problem at all to get the nickel on its edge with the saw running. Feeling confident, I shut the saw off, and the nickel never even flinched! I then restarted the saw – no movement at all. In short, with a nickel standing on its edge I can start and stop the saw anytime, and it won’t topple over! Very impressive.
I don’t know if any saw is 100% perfect out of the box, but I feel I had to do a bit more fine tuning with mine than I should have. However, I now have a saw that is a joy to use – quiet, vibration free, accurate, great dust collection, an excellent fence, and I even like the paint color!
This ended up being a lot longer post than I had planned!, but hopefully it can be of help to anyone else out there looking for a new saw.