5 x 10 CNC's with upgrade possibility to auto tool changer

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

I can consistently find 5 x 10 cnc routers for sale used around 15k, but none of them have auto tool changing capability. I can also google around and find NEW machines that have auto tool changing that are 100k +

My question is if there is a good base model that I could buy now w/o the tool changer and upgrade later when I had the funding. I am just now starting to learn about CNC's. I don't know much about software, hardware and the heads. However, most of these machines that are 20k or less (used) seem to be machines that can NOT be upgraded later.

Is there something I should look for when looking at used machinery that immediately gives me an idea of whether a tool changer could be added or not? Or is it pretty rare that a machine would have the capability, but never be upgraded?

[Jim Becker]

Adding a tool changer is not trivial, unfortunately. It's a combination of hardware (including a new spindle) and software to make it work and the latter is the critical part. Costly, for sure. You might have a conversation with Gary Campbell to get his thoughts on this as he's added tool changes to some machines during his career.

[andrew whicker]

I actually did a little more digging and found some used models for sale around 30k w/ tool changer. Honestly, that's not bad.

https://theequipmenthub.com/product/multicam-3000-series-3-304-r-7-x-10-cnc-router-w-atc-vacuum-pump/

[Kevin Jenness]

If you have the business to justify a tool changer, finance it and get it up front. Retrofitting one would be a stretch. Used machines can be a good investment, but make sure that you get one that will do what you need, isn't clapped out and has factory support available. Jim's suggestion to consult with Gary Campbell is well worth following. You can learn a lot about the general subject by looking through the archives at the Camheads, Shopbot and cnczone sites. There is a lot to absorb before you choose a machine and more when you start to run it.

[Jim Becker]

Support is pretty important and that's not just from the manufacturer, but also for whatever software is used on the machine. You cannot afford to be incompatible with applications that you'll use for CAD/CAM, especially for post processing so that your files can actually run on the machine. Be really careful about not getting hooked on a proprietary system, especially and older one.

[Ronald Blue]

I was going to share the post but can't find it at the moment. However there was a Legacy 4x8 with indexing lathe for 18K in California. It I believe had an ATC as well. Said they were selling because of getting larger machine.
Found it. No ATC but what appears to be their version of CAMaster's Fast Tool Change. You would have to join this FB group to view it. If the link isn't allowed please remove Moderators.

Everything USED Woodworking Tools & Equipment For Sale or Trade | Legacy woodworking CNC | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/146877273070891/permalink/847677216324223/?sale_post_id=847677216324223)

[Carl Beckett]

Do any of the Stepcraft models fit your criteria? They have ATC on some of the lower priced models.

[eugene thomas]

theirs a saying i wish would of followed... buy your second cnc first....

[andrew whicker]

Support is pretty important and that's not just from the manufacturer, but also for whatever software is used on the machine. You cannot afford to be incompatible with applications that you'll use for CAD/CAM, especially for post processing so that your files can actually run on the machine. Be really careful about not getting hooked on a proprietary system, especially and older one.

Yeah, there was an interesting mid 90's one for sale, but I was thinking the same thing. Good chance it runs on something local and doesn't accept DXF's.

[Kevin Jenness]

Yeah, there was an interesting mid 90's one for sale, but I was thinking the same thing. Good chance it runs on something local and doesn't accept DXF's.

You might find a mechanically solid router from that era but you need a system that works together as a system with available support. Spindle, controllers, pneumatics, CAD/CAM, post processor, etc. It doesn't even make sense to say "doesn't accept DXFs", as if you could just upload a drawing file and have the router spit out parts. Any CAD/CAM program will work with dxf files, but translating them into toolpaths that will work on your machine is just one (indispensable) part of the system.

If you haven't seen it, look up this thread by Gary Campbell.

Buying a CNC? Do Your Homework!! (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=05c687b4d2749ed1JmltdHM9MTY3NDM0NTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0z NjEwYTk3ZC1jZjQzLTZiYmQtMDc4My1iODI2Y2U2YTZhYmMmaW 5zaWQ9NTE4Ng&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=3610a97d-cf43-6bbd-0783-b826ce6a6abc&psq=camheads+gary+cambell+do+your+homewrk&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2FtaGVhZHMub3JnL2ZvcnVtL2hvdy 10by11c2UtdGhpcy1mb3J1bS9mYXEtZnJlcXVlbnRseS1hc2tl ZC1xdWVzdGlvbnMvMzg0MS1idXlpbmctYS1jbmMtZG8teW91ci 1ob21ld29yaw&ntb=1)

[andrew whicker]

Thanks I'll read it!

A long time ago I worked at a machine shop with a cnc water jet that required the operator to draw the shapes in the local cad system. That's what I was referring to. But maybe that never happens anymore. 🙂

[Jim Becker]

Oh, you'll be drawing plenty in the CAD/CAM system you choose (or are able) to use with any machine you buy...even if you acquire files from someone, you still need to tweak them to work well with your machine environment and tooling. Importing DXF is not an issue with modern CAD/CAM software as has been mentioned. But it's not the end product and you cannot cut directly from it.

[andrew whicker]

I understand that much. I just mean that in my specific example the CAD software was so old that only that specific machine had the software to draw. So the operator re-drew everything in some oddball CAD software local to the machine using our PDF's created on Autocad.

Anywho... I don't plan on buying anything that doesn't have on going licensing / support. I use Fusion 360 so I'll be making the DXF's on that software. I have friends that have a CNC and their path creation software looks complicated to me, but I'm not sure how to compare it to other software. Maybe it all is complicated when you first start using it.

[Kevin Jenness]

I understand that much. I just mean that in my specific example the CAD software was so old that only that specific machine had the software to draw. So the operator re-drew everything in some oddball CAD software local to the machine using our PDF's created on Autocad.

Anywho... I don't plan on buying anything that doesn't have on going licensing / support. I use Fusion 360 so I'll be making the DXF's on that software. I have friends that have a CNC and their path creation software looks complicated to me, but I'm not sure how to compare it to other software. Maybe it all is complicated when you first start using it.

You can draw and generate toolpaths within Fusion 360. If you're already proficient in drawing with that program it probably makes sense to stay with it as long as they offer a post processor for the machine you get. Another good cad/cam vendor is Vectrics. Their VCarve Pro is quite capable and they have extensive tutorials available to shorten the learning curve as well as an active forum. I suspect Vectrics has a larger user base in cnc routing than Fusion, which may be a relevant factor.

[Jim Becker]

What Kevin said...Fusion 360 can be fully CAD/CAM capable with many modern machines. There just has to be post processor support and that generally comes from the CNC machine manufacturer as it's specific to the controller software and the machine configuration. Note you will want the F360 paid commercial version to support the features you'll likely want/need with a big machine.

Now if you'll be doing cabinetry type work, either F360 or Vectric products are the best choice there other than for one-off type projects. There are excellent cabinet production specific CAD/CAM applications that are much more efficient and keyed to that job. Mosaic is an example of the same.

[Michael Burnside]

I love my ShopSabre, but I'm an advanced hobbyist so justifying an ATC after opting for other goodies like a vacuum table wasn't in the cards. Having said that, I felt I was making a serious investment so I bought something made in the US to ensure I have long term support. ShopSabre and CAMaster use WinCNC controllers. WinCNC is a 3rd party CNC controller company that is widely supported (Vectric/Autodesk/Enroute/Optiscout/etc.), robust and, again, local. I looked long and hard before making a serious investment and it came down to the two aforementioned manufacturers for me. They weren't the least expensive, but I feel, for me, they were the two best choices.

There is also Phantom CNC, which have what look like great machines at a lesser price and a few compromises (IMHO), but they may fit your needs as well.

[Jim Becker]

ShopSabre and CAMaster use WinCNC controllers. WinCNC is a 3rd party CNC controller company that is widely supported (Vectric/Autodesk/Enroute/Optiscout/etc.), robust and, again, local.


Camaster still uses WinCNC on the three Stinger lines (I, II, and III) but has moved to Smartcore CNC Control from Yaskawa for the Panther and Cobra lines. It's a more robust industrial controller, but I don't know much about it. AFAIK, there's no issues using all the common CAD/CAM software with that system.

[andrew whicker]

What Kevin said...Fusion 360 can be fully CAD/CAM capable with many modern machines. There just has to be post processor support and that generally comes from the CNC machine manufacturer as it's specific to the controller software and the machine configuration. Note you will want the F360 paid commercial version to support the features you'll likely want/need with a big machine.

Now if you'll be doing cabinetry type work, either F360 or Vectric products are the best choice there other than for one-off type projects. There are excellent cabinet production specific CAD/CAM applications that are much more efficient and keyed to that job. Mosaic is an example of the same.

I have a lot to consider. I have a basic license w/ F360, but the additional part of F360 that supports nesting and CAM is a big price increase on top of my basic license cost. I will definitely have to consider that aspect as well. And the learning curve. The learning curve and tooling is going to be costly.

[Jim Becker]

Andrew, what do you plan on using the CNC for in your operation? That has a lot of impact both on hardware and software needs as you've probably started to see!

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

I ordered a Chinese CNC machine 5'x10' with ATC, vac table, pneumatic rollers, Yaskawa, etc brand new for just over $15K ($19K on the boat shipped and probably closer to $22k in my shop with port fees (estimated)). But I also upgraded the model from the base specs and could have easily gotten the price close to $15k. If you purchase a used CNC from across the country, you are also going to be paying several thousand to get it shipped at least, so a $15k machine will also end up closer to 20k when you get it to your location.

[andrew whicker]

Andrew, what do you plan on using the CNC for in your operation? That has a lot of impact both on hardware and software needs as you've probably started to see!

If I get the job, it would pretty simple stuff. Akin to cabinetry carcasses (without any dowel holes), but in this specific case, with OSB. So it would really be perfect for learning.

[Bill George]

If I get the job, it would pretty simple stuff. Akin to cabinetry carcasses (without any dowel holes), but in this specific case, with OSB. So it would really be perfect for learning.

Please buy something with some USA support and users here can also help support. My big regret is that years ago when I was buying I did not get the Cam Master instead of the startup one I did get. Its long gone now and I lost tons of money when I sold the one I had even as it worked great. Zero resale.

[Jim Becker]

If I get the job, it would pretty simple stuff. Akin to cabinetry carcasses (without any dowel holes), but in this specific case, with OSB. So it would really be perfect for learning.
Since your plan is to go to the large 5x10 format, it should handle that and a lot more very easily. "What" software is still the question, but cabinetry-like and possibly cabinetry will point toward software optimized for that kind of thing because it can substantially speed up job prep and cutting. Cabinetry focused software takes your specifications and "does the drawing" for you, for the most part, once you have your standards defined. Diving into CAD/CAM for other types of projects can happen, too, so there is the potential of learning more than one application over time.

[Michael Burnside]

You don’t need 5x10 to do serious cabinetry. A quality 4x8 will do the job well. If you want it, great, but you don’t need it and if budget is a concern that’s the first compromise I’d personally make. Things like vacuum, pin locators for fast loading and repeat production cuts, options to add ATC later, etc is what I would consider.

I’d call CAMaster, ShopSabre, Phantom and Shopbot people a call and get some ideas/options.

I know of a few people using KCD software specifically for cabinetry design. If you’re just starting out and don’t need a fast, full production workflow yet, then Vectric Vcarve Pro is fine. I designed a custom 7’x3’ dresser in vcarve.

[Michael Burnside]

I ordered a Chinese CNC machine 5'x10' with ATC, vac table, pneumatic rollers, Yaskawa, etc brand new for just over $15K ($19K on the boat shipped and probably closer to $22k in my shop with port fees (estimated)). But I also upgraded the model from the base specs and could have easily gotten the price close to $15k. If you purchase a used CNC from across the country, you are also going to be paying several thousand to get it shipped at least, so a $15k machine will also end up closer to 20k when you get it to your location.

7K or roughly 30% above actual cost just to get it to you? Do you have a link to share of the manufacturer?

I paid 1600 to have mine delivered across the country from Minnesota and 250 for a forklift. Seemed reasonable for an insanely robust, heavy steel frame and gantry.

[andrew whicker]

I made some shipping calls. These machines aren't heavy to trucking companies. It's relatively cheap to transport them. I got a quote of ~2k to move it inside my shop though.

[Kevin Jenness]

If I get the job, it would pretty simple stuff. Akin to cabinetry carcasses (without any dowel holes), but in this specific case, with OSB. So it would really be perfect for learning.

It sounds as though investing in a production cnc unit is dependent on scoring one big contract. Do you have other prospects that would support the purchase?

Be careful about scheduling work dependent on a new, unfamiliar process and equipment. It will take some time to get familiar with the system and work out any bugs. Support is really important early on, both for hard and software. A Chinese or used machine might be a bargain for someone with cnc experience, or it could be a nightmare for a novice.

You might need to pay a rigger $$ to get a machine into your building, but look into picking it up at the freight depot and moving it home with a rollback truck or dropdeck trailer, or a flatbed if you have a forklift. I've moved heavy machines with tractors, backhoes and excavators using slings, plus dollies and rollers once on the floor.

For production work make sure you have material handling covered, including receiving material, loading and offloading the machine and shipping finished work.

[Bill George]

7K or roughly 30% above actual cost just to get it to you? Do you have a link to share of the manufacturer?

I paid 1600 to have mine delivered across the country from Minnesota and 250 for a forklift. Seemed reasonable for an insanely robust, heavy steel frame and gantry.

Well the Tariff is 19% plus customs and then he has to pay trucking to his freight company dock and then a local delivery fee and pay for a rigger to unload. I don't know who is going to do the assy and setup. Warranty issues all back to China, he will need to send videos to prove the issue. Then of course the control software getting it installed and working, once again no USA support. I am having a big issue now with a Chinese vender that sells through Amazon!

[andrew whicker]

Not at the moment. I am getting more connected to the area and I know there are opportunities once the machine exists. But, honestly, I'm not sure how likely it is to get this contract (probably fairly low) so I'm only putting in as much energy as I can afford.

Yes, material handling will tough. There's a lot to consider. My lot is great, but the building itself leaves a lot to be desired (height and small garage door). It's the same difficult nut to crack that most small businesses face I imagine. What to work around, what to perfect, where to invest, etc?

I would like to put in some wide double doors or garage door that opens right into space the CNC is located for material loading. It's never going to be perfect with my current set up.

And, yes, it is possible to get a smaller unit (4x8), but I figure the extra sq footage isn't too expensive once you are already buying a CNC. So if you have the space... might as well go for the extra sq footage.

[Jim Becker]

The advantage to the 5x10 is the ability to use the wider material when that's appropriate and some commercial work does indeed benefit from the 10' length.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Thanks bill for your pessimism. TLDR: 18k+1k to ship. 2K tariff and port, pickup and no rigging needed. Easy English tech support and easy setup according to other owners.

The price of my machine was $18k (but I said he could get a full ATC machine for 15k with different options) . A bit less than $1k to ship to the port in NJ. The invoice is written for less than full price do tariff and fees should be $2k. I can pickup the machine with a trailer at the port for time and gas. And I have a friends construction company next door with a telehandler that will unload and put the machine through my shop door. No riggers needed to move the last 10’ with my gantry and pallet jacks. 3800#.

Setup is a few hours as the machine is complex assembled apart from some covers. There are wires to hook up, vacuum pumps to place, dust collection. But that is for any machine.

I am already talking to the English speaking tech support team who are great and other owners of this company’s machines in the US. I can reach them on WhatsApp or phone. So it is no harder than reaching US based support. I can’t even get my local power company on the phone for weeks, but I can get a Chinese tech support guy to send me specific pictures and directions in a couple of hours!

Control software is already setup (LNC WM2200) and test cuts have been made on my machine at the factory, unless you mean installing Aspire which is done.

So there. Bill being Bill.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

7K or roughly 30% above actual cost just to get it to you? Do you have a link to share of the manufacturer?

I paid 1600 to have mine delivered across the country from Minnesota and 250 for a forklift. Seemed reasonable for an insanely robust, heavy steel frame and gantry.

The manufacturer is StyleCNC. They have a youtube channel that you can see. Bill will probably have a fit if I post a direct link, but I bought a STM1530C model. Search their name and that model and it has a nice spec page that also has videos.

[Michael Burnside]

The advantage to the 5x10 is the ability to use the wider material when that's appropriate and some commercial work does indeed benefit from the 10' length.

Oh, I'm not disputing 5x10 > 4x8, that's not an easy argument to make. Bigger is better and all that. The only real downside is gantry width, but if you buy a Camaster or Shopsabre it's non-issue as their gantry construction leaves zero flex. If it were aluminum, I'm not so sure I would say 5x10 is better, but that's my opinion of course. The 5x10 would interest me if I use a lot of 5x5 BB and I want to do production work otherwise 4x8 is more than sufficient and I can save a little money as well as realestate in my shop.

[Jim Becker]

No disagreement. I honestly do wish my 4x4 was either 5x5 or 4x8, but alas, the latter would not have fit in my old shop, so I passed on it. Sad because it would have only incremented the cost by about $3K for an additional 4 feet; a small fraction of the total cost of the machine.

[Dave Roock]

Thanks bill for your pessimism. TLDR: 18k+1k to ship. 2K tariff and port, pickup and no rigging needed. Easy English tech support and easy setup according to other owners.

The price of my machine was $18k (but I said he could get a full ATC machine for 15k with different options) . A bit less than $1k to ship to the port in NJ. The invoice is written for less than full price do tariff and fees should be $2k. I can pickup the machine with a trailer at the port for time and gas. And I have a friends construction company next door with a telehandler that will unload and put the machine through my shop door. No riggers needed to move the last 10’ with my gantry and pallet jacks. 3800#.

Setup is a few hours as the machine is complex assembled apart from some covers. There are wires to hook up, vacuum pumps to place, dust collection. But that is for any machine.

I am already talking to the English speaking tech support team who are great and other owners of this company’s machines in the US. I can reach them on WhatsApp or phone. So it is no harder than reaching US based support. I can’t even get my local power company on the phone for weeks, but I can get a Chinese tech support guy to send me specific pictures and directions in a couple of hours!

Control software is already setup (LNC WM2200) and test cuts have been made on my machine at the factory, unless you mean installing Aspire which is done.

So there. Bill being Bill.

You also need a Customs Broker to import that item. Extra costs will amaze you.

[Bill George]

I fail to see why Insults of other users are allowed on this forum? We can not make a comment about someone purchasing from China directly without being subjected to grade school level insults. So most all of this persons posts are those type, its getting out of hand. A person can buy all he wants from China, but there are differences in quality and support not being discussed intelligently here.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

You also need a Customs Broker to import that item. Extra costs will amaze you.
Port costs just came in and are $968. Not too bad and quite what I expected. Customs fees are next and are expected to be another $1000, with perhaps $500 for the customs broker team. I am still well within my $25k budget. And they are not amazing me at all.

[Dave Roock]

Port costs just came in and are $968. Not too bad and quite what I expected. Customs fees are next and are expected to be another $1000, with perhaps $500 for the customs broker team. I am still well within my $25k budget. And they are not amazing me at all.

Next will be the warehouse & loading fees from the Customs bonded warehouse where you item will be arriving. You can calculate your Customs duties from the declared value on your Commercial Invoice - the Harmonized code for your item will set the duty rate. Followed by freight costs to get the item to your home. If you have a neighbor with a telehandler forklift, you will save some money. Freight companies charge extra for Residential deliveries.

[Kevin Jenness]

Port costs just came in and are $968. Not too bad and quite what I expected. Customs fees are next and are expected to be another $1000, with perhaps $500 for the customs broker team. I am still well within my $25k budget. And they are not amazing me at all.

It sounds like a great deal if the machine is as advertised and the support is there. Check back in and post a review after setting it up and running it for a while.

[Will Blick]

Matt, sorry for the backlash this forum often delivers without due cause.
I am curious how you are progressing, and in the end, can you try to describe the savings you realized dealing direct with the China maker, vs. a competitive USA product of similar capability. For newbies into CNC, most would consider this a risky move if support is required.... maybe you can comment on that as well, thx in advance for your input!

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Matt, sorry for the backlash this forum often delivers without due cause.
I am curious how you are progressing, and in the end, can you try to describe the savings you realized dealing direct with the China maker, vs. a competitive USA product of similar capability. For newbies into CNC, most would consider this a risky move if support is required.... maybe you can comment on that as well, thx in advance for your input!

I have largely quit this forum, but I am happy to respond.
My Chinese CNC machine has been working great so far. I have been modifying it here and there to fit my needs. Mostly small stuff. It cuts stuff at up to 800 IPM, and engraves and does 3D topo carvings. I had zero issues with Alibaba, importing, or shipping. I used a customs broker through my freight contacts and it cost me just $100 to file the papers, customs was cheap too.

Service has been wonderful. I have a WhatsApp chat with the salesperson and engineer and he answers question in a few hours, mostly because of time difference. Just a few days ago I was wondering why I could not get more than 18000 RPM out of the spindle, and the engineer tech showed me where that setting lives in the controller so I could change it to the 24000 max rpm of the spindle. I have not needed them to replace any parts, so I can't say what that process would be like, but the machine is non-proprietary so most everything is off the shelf and largely available on Amazon (sensors, contactors, relays, transformers, etc.). I would have to have a failure of the controller, servos, servopacks, or spindle to really need them to handle parts replacement.

I really like the LNC controller. It is very powerful and easy to change settings, access the parameters and macros, load files, measure tools, and even adjust spindle speed and feed rates in real time during the run of a cut. If you hear something running too fast, you can slow it down, or speed it up. The only issue I have had is that I nearly stalled the spindle using a spoilboard cutter on one program and I feel like there should be a safety for that to pause the program before the spindle slows to a stop. There probably is, but I have not gotten around to asking or investigating that further. There are plenty of internal breakers as well as the VFD settings, so it's not a danger, but I don't want to stall it out and cause undue damage to the spindle one day. There are some internal programming files that I would love to be able to modify, but that is too complicated for me now.

I modified the dust collection shoe to fit a larger spoilboard cutter and increase its airflow - it was just some cut and paste style sheetmetal work, i.e. ugly but works).

I added some clear vinyl strips along the spindle enclosure and back of the gantry (like those flaps that hang in a doorway) that act as dust shields and help slow down or stop an flying chips or broken cutters. I just attached them with strong magnets left over from a previous job.

I ungraded some of the wires in the cabinet to larger size. The cabinet is well laid out and everything is labeled and easy to access, so I just took one wire out, and replaced it with a larger size to limit any voltage drop. This was not strictly necessary, but I wanted to be sure that I was getting peak performance.

I have been workin on getting the dust collection blast gate and the compressed air input on solenoid valves so that they will automatically operate when the machine turns on.

Overall, I got a machine that is largely comparable with a ShopSabre 5'x10' machine with vacuum bed and ATC, new for $20k. The cheap vacuum pumps are no good for holding parts, but I hooked them up to a small cyclone dust bin and they function as a bomber (but waste of money) shop vac - like imagine a true 240v 10hp shop vac (not peak hp, but actual). I won a nice used 25 hp liquid ring vac pump at auction (15,000 hours young) and that is wonderful and needed nothing, not even oil to run.

Still happy to talk to people that want to call. This takes too long to type out everything. Just send me a message. It was a risk, or at least a perceived risk. However, I bought it with Alibaba Trade Assurance, paid $130 for a third party inspection of my machine, and on a credit card with fraud protection.

[Will Blick]

Matt, thx soo much for such an informative update. That sure is impressive....
I will contract you direct with some additional questions to avoid the typing....
thx again for sharing your experience despite the unfair treatment. 99% of us USA ww's would not have the courage to follow through with what you did, maybe now it will reduce to 97% ;)
I will be in touch shortly....

[Michael Burnside]

Any pictures? Do you recall the total weight of the machine?

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

3800 pounds listed shipping weight.

[Michael Burnside]

Sounds like a sizable machine. When you can, post some pictures!

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

https://youtube.com/shorts/6rkxcl34xIs?feature=share

Here is a short video I took cutting some pockets using a 1/2" 3 flute rougher in box store sheathing plywood to make parts for one of my customers. It is a long tool - too long for only a 11mm cut so it is singing quite a bit (might want to keep the volume low). But it is one of the bits that I got in my large Alibaba carbide order and I neglected to get short roughing bits, only 60mm cut length. It would be handy to have a few at 25mm cut length so that they can really plow through wood at max speed (800IPM currently set on the machine - but these settings are adjustable, so I will likely see if faster is possible sometime this year). These are throw-away pieces to be used as product demos with an inset piece of thin concrete set inside the pocket.

[Will Blick]

Great video Matt... that is quite the machine, very impressive. I have contacted them, and they are working to provide me a unique machine.... just like you stated early on, the value is quite impressive. Thx again for sharing all that you have, I am certain I am not the only one you have helped. Be in touch shortly...

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Great video Matt... that is quite the machine, very impressive. I have contacted them, and they are working to provide me a unique machine.... just like you stated early on, the value is quite impressive. Thx again for sharing all that you have, I am certain I am not the only one you have helped. Be in touch shortly...
Great. It is certainly a game changer, especially because I would not otherwise be able to afford (or want to take the risk) of a $80,000 purchase for something else comparable.
I like the LNC controller. But I don't have any other experience with Syntec.
Just don't get the cheap 2.2kw vacuum pumps. Go to an auction site like IRS Auctions and get a used big vac pump for the same or less price.
I paid extra for Yaskawa servos. Worth it? Not sure, but they are said to be the best.
I like the automatic lube system - but you have to manually operate it several times in a row when you get the machine to make sure that every line is full of oil - a few of mine were still full of air. It will result in some over-oiling and drips of the shorter lines, but then at least everything is getting lube at the same time.

[Will Blick]

I am waiting for upgrade costs for the servos and auto lube system.
thx for information on the vacuum table... better to order without and deal with that here?
what CAM are you using, did they provide it?
They did not offer the side mount edge joinery kit for dovetails, etc. But I can prob. rig one up myself, as its just a side holding platform.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

I am waiting for upgrade costs for the servos and auto lube system.
thx for information on the vacuum table... better to order without and deal with that here?
what CAM are you using, did they provide it?
They did not offer the side mount edge joinery kit for dovetails, etc. But I can prob. rig one up myself, as its just a side holding platform.
Get a vacuum table, just not the cheap vacuum pumps. They probably offer better rotary vane pumps (either Chinese or Becker, etc), even a Roots blower is supposed to be pretty good. Just don't go with a simple regenerative blower vacuum pump as they can only pull 10" hg max vacuum.

Which model are you looking at? The cheap models are cheap for a reason as they leave out features like Auto Lube, etc. The higher end models come with all of that standard. But StyleCNC will also build you a machine with any combination of features.

They had an old program ArtCam, but I was not interested as I knew that I should either be working in Vectric or Fusion360. I bought Vcarve Pro and it is easy to use.

My model has space in front of the table and behind it that I could take off covers and have enough space to rig up a vertical table. Not sure if I will bother, but it is possible. Dovetails of various sorts can be cut laying flat, just not all types.

[Will Blick]

STM1212C-R1
which is 4x4 table size, w indexer
3KW air cooled spindle
added auto lube
#5 pcs linear tool storage
#Taiwan LNC control system
#T-slot table and vacuum table#2* vacuum pump(air cooling) the 2 table vac pumps which I will prob. remove...
any thoughts?

[Bill George]

https://youtube.com/shorts/6rkxcl34xIs?feature=share

Here is a short video I took cutting some pockets using a 1/2" 3 flute rougher in box store sheathing plywood to make parts for one of my customers. It is a long tool - too long for only a 11mm cut so it is singing quite a bit (might want to keep the volume low). But it is one of the bits that I got in my large Alibaba carbide order and I neglected to get short roughing bits, only 60mm cut length. It would be handy to have a few at 25mm cut length so that they can really plow through wood at max speed (800IPM currently set on the machine - but these settings are adjustable, so I will likely see if faster is possible sometime this year). These are throw-away pieces to be used as product demos with an inset piece of thin concrete set inside the pocket.

Impressed.

[David Buchhauser]

https://youtube.com/shorts/6rkxcl34xIs?feature=share

Here is a short video I took cutting some pockets using a 1/2" 3 flute rougher in box store sheathing plywood to make parts for one of my customers. It is a long tool - too long for only a 11mm cut so it is singing quite a bit (might want to keep the volume low). But it is one of the bits that I got in my large Alibaba carbide order and I neglected to get short roughing bits, only 60mm cut length. It would be handy to have a few at 25mm cut length so that they can really plow through wood at max speed (800IPM currently set on the machine - but these settings are adjustable, so I will likely see if faster is possible sometime this year). These are throw-away pieces to be used as product demos with an inset piece of thin concrete set inside the pocket.

Very impressive looking machine!!
David

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Very impressive looking machine!!
David
Yeah, it won’t be doing much for a bit as my wife is in the hospital (but getting better as of today). Good thing that I didn’t buy an expensive machine on credit or I would be worrying about the loan payments all this time.

Does anyone have a good link to a reasonable (non-vortex) 25mm cutting length 1/2” diameter 2 or 3 flute roughing bit for wood? I can find plenty of ones on Amazon for metal, but none specifically for wood.

[Brian Lamb]

well worth a try.... I use their wood and aluminum endmills all the time.
https://www.carbidetoolsource.com/roughing-end-mills/12-dia-aluma-rough-3-flute-long-carbide-rougher-end-mill-for-aluminum

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

well worth a try.... I use their wood and aluminum endmills all the time.
https://www.carbidetoolsource.com/roughing-end-mills/12-dia-aluma-rough-3-flute-long-carbide-rougher-end-mill-for-aluminum
Sold out, of course. I was just about to buy one. Price is good, all depends on if the angles are correct for wood. I have heard that it is the clearance angle that makes the most difference. I don’t know my tool grinding specifications, but I assume more clearance is required for the larger chips that we can take with wood to prevent the tool from rubbing on the cut.

[Brian Lamb]

Go with the 3/8" x 1" LOC, will work fine. The 3 flute aluminum grind has plenty of positive rake. Any end mill ground for aluminum will eat wood like it's warm butter.